OH - Dr. William Husel accused of murdering 25 patients w/ Fentanyl Overdoses, Franklin Co, 2019 *not guilty*

  • #61
Nick was a drug addict with high tolerance that came in with AMS. How much did he weigh, was he obese?
Although not stated, it sounds like he was being sedated for intubation to be placed on a vent or the like and due to his high tolerance needed additional doses? Was the fentanyl an IV infusion?

If that is the case, the dosage is nothing like it would be in a PCA pump, or bedside setting via IV push, it is dosed as an anesthetic via continuous infusion ie: a 70-kg ( 154 lbs) patient would receive 700 mcg/hr fentanyl (see below)

**If they noticed respiratory depression after dosing why didn't they have Flumazenil the reversal agent for versed or Naloxone for fentanyl and dilaudid? Did they perform CPR?

James Nickolas Timmons, 39, of Hilliard, who went by Nick, arrived at the hospital on Oct. 22, 2018 with an altered mental status due to drug abuse. On Oct. 24, he was given 1,000 micrograms of fentanyl and 10 mg of Versed at 3 a.m. and 10 mg of hydromorphone and 10 mg of Versed after that. He died at 3:13

Here are the victims in the Mount Carmel criminal case


"Unlike most drugs, Versed dosages should be based upon the effect of the drug, rather than the weight of the patient. The dose should be adjusted based on the result of the initial dose, meaning that the patient should be given more or less of the drug based on how effective it is.

A patient's ability to tolerate alcohol consumption often gives a hint of their likely tolerance for Versed. Individuals who are a "lightweight" and become intoxicated easily may require less medication than someone who can "hold their liquor."

Surgery and Versed (Midazolam)


Drawbacks of prolonged fentanyl infusions

The recommended dosage of fentanyl is enormous.
The recommended infusion rate for fentanyl in the SCCM guidelines is 0.7-10 mcg/kg/hr. At the upper end of this range, a 70-kg ( 154 lbs) patient would receive 700 mcg/hr fentanyl, equivalent to 3,360 mg of oxycodone daily.

opium.gif

PulmCrit- Fentanyl infusions for sedation: The opioid pendulum swings astray?
Craziness. The current facility I work at in ICU has a max rate of Fentanyl 200mcg/hr for continuous infusion. I know this drug should be weight based, but that’s our hospital policy. Still insane...and that much Dilaudid??!
 
  • #62
Thanks @jjenny.
I was questioning whether the fentanyl was IV continuous or push.
Per the video it sounds like in many of the cases, the loved one was dying and that Husel accelerate their deaths.
Video in the link @ 02:06 states the Jim Allen received 1,000 mcg IV Push, Inject, Once.
It was heartbreaking seeing and hearing the families speak of their loved ones.
MOO
Think of how many syringes you’d be pulling, drawing up, and then pushing....
Courtesy of Lexicomp
 

Attachments

  • B03A5D30-0592-4D93-8DC0-3E5E7449BE0A.png
    B03A5D30-0592-4D93-8DC0-3E5E7449BE0A.png
    258.1 KB · Views: 23
  • BAD61383-58C0-4B99-AB77-65E9FCE9B897.png
    BAD61383-58C0-4B99-AB77-65E9FCE9B897.png
    241.6 KB · Views: 16
  • CA514408-D07E-416F-B545-959FE4C327EE.jpeg
    CA514408-D07E-416F-B545-959FE4C327EE.jpeg
    154.8 KB · Views: 17
  • #63
Craziness. The current facility I work at in ICU has a max rate of Fentanyl 200mcg/hr for continuous infusion. I know this drug should be weight based, but that’s our hospital policy. Still insane...and that much Dilaudid??!
It's only insane if your goal is not to kill the patient. If you want patient to die it makes perfect sense. That's why this guy is charged. Too bad he was able to get out on bail.
 
  • #64
Think of how many syringes you’d be pulling, drawing up, and then pushing....
Courtesy of Lexicomp

My thoughts exactly. It seems like most nurses would pause and balk at drawing up all that medicine for IVP, even in the ICU.

Wonder if the hospital had a policy on how much could be drawn up for IVP. Some hospitals have a policy specific to the medicine so that something like Fentanyl can only be drawn up at a max of 2ML per syringe at a time for IVP. Policy would vary by the unit, so maybe ICU would be exempt from such policies.

I was wondering if the hospital pharmacy had the ICU nurses mixing their own infusion drips?

I've been doing administrative work for a couple years now, but I used to work for a hospital that on night shift the pharmacy was "too busy" to to mix our IV infusions. So the nurses would get the fluids and the meds sent up from pharmacy to mix themselves. I can remember a post code situation and needing a stat drip when the pharmacy said "we don't do that on night shift"-- mix your own.

So wonder if pharmacy staff thought they were sending up meds for a drip that was then given IVP.

The documented medical records would be interesting to comb through. Agree that with HIPPA, it's unlikely we will be able to get all the facts.
This is all MOO.
 
  • #65
I don't think pharmacy staff was sending the meds. It sounds like hospital had meds dispensed by some machine. When it wouldn't dispense that much fentanyl, Dr. used an "override" function to get it. At least that's my understanding from reading the reports, because they keep mentioning drug dispensing machines.
 
  • #66
I just want to know how someone basically accused of being a serial killer is out on bail?
 
  • #67
  • #68
  • #69
I'm surprised they set bond.
The judge is supposed to evaluate risk to the public when setting bond. Since this guy is accused of killing sick people in a hospital, and not people in general population, one would think risk to the public is low unless the guy is allowed to practice medicine somewhere (which is unlikely).
 
  • #70
The judge is supposed to evaluate risk to the public when setting bond. Since this guy is accused of killing sick people in a hospital, and not people in general population, one would think risk to the public is low unless the guy is allowed to practice medicine somewhere (which is unlikely).

Didn't he build a pipebomb set to explode under a car? (Earlier page)
 
  • #71
I'm surprised they set bond.
At the very least he is a flight-risk... He is going to jail for the rest of his life. Why not go on the run and take your chances? What do you have to loose? Why would you give a suspected serial killer bail?
 
  • #72
I am only talking about this because of Ohio law.

My spouse was prescribed Fentanyl patches during Radiation. We were warned about not touching the patch even. The dosage increased over the 6 weeks. He was also prescribed Ativan and Ambien. The Pharmacist would not dispense all 3 together without the Oncologist approval.

It is illegal in Ohio to prescribe over 5 or 7 days of Opioids per month. I was told that if I continued my Migraine meds then be in a car accident that the hospital could not prescribe an Opioid.

Maybe I was given bad information, but I know 1st hand that the Pharmacist wouldn't fill prescriptions. This was prior to Ohio's numerical ranking system for dispensing Opioids.
 
  • #73
  • #74
At the very least he is a flight-risk... He is going to jail for the rest of his life. Why not go on the run and take your chances? What do you have to loose? Why would you give a suspected serial killer bail?

Yeah, I dont get it. At all.
 
  • #75
I don't think pharmacy staff was sending the meds. It sounds like hospital had meds dispensed by some machine. When it wouldn't dispense that much fentanyl, Dr. used an "override" function to get it. At least that's my understanding from reading the reports, because they keep mentioning drug dispensing machines.

Agreed.

Was there a way that the doctor circumvented the normal protocols and safeguards?

Most hospital these days have the computer driven medication dispensing systems that allow qualified staff to "pull" the meds. The system documents among other data: exact time, amount dispensed, number of vials supposed to be present, patient to receive medicine, and staff member withdrawing. Controlled substances such as narcotics had to reconcile with the amount scanned at bedside as given to the patient, as well as the "wasted" amount. Such a system is supposed to decrease medication errors--unintentional or intentional.

Most systems of this nature would presumably include what is meant to be multiple checks by multiple staff to prevent this type of event:
1) the doctor putting the order in the computer (override automatically triggered by a dosage out of range and response required for the reason to override before allowing the doctor to electronically sign the order)
2) the pharmacy receiving the order (electronically) and having a "hard stop" that that they must verbally confirm with the doctor the reason for the "out of range dosage" along with the time or multiple times recorded that the doctor was contacted to confirm the reason for "override"
3) the nurse that retrieves the meds from the medication dispensing system generates another notification of "out of range" dosage requiring an override and a reason for dispensing the medication that is out of normal range before the system will dispense the medication
4) and again, when giving the meds: scanning the patient and medicine another "override" triggered that warns that the medication dose is out of range and must have a reason documented for the override.
5) after the fact, most hospitals would have some department whether risk management, pharmacy, or the unit manager that reviews and monitors the overrides, unreconciled narcotic wastes, and other anomalies. This is required in most states. Usually the reports would be run daily, but possibly weekly, or monthly.

Just wondering how so many overrides could go unnoticed with so many associated deaths for so long?
Every override is meticulously documented by the computer. Doctors or nurses with multiple overrides would raise red flags in most hospitals, even in 2013. Pharmacy would notice an unusual pattern of medication depletion at a greater than expected rate. Most hospitals rigorously control medication supply and cost.

For a doctor to instigate the process of overriding the medication system, pulling the meds, and administering them to his victims , it wouldn't be that easy. Someone had to document these huge dosages administered and the reason why. What were the reasons that he, pharmacy, and the nurses listed for the override? Did they all agree on the reason for the override of such large doses? Were the nurses and pharmacy staff too intimidated to say anything or complicit that certain patients shouldn't live?

Notably absent from culpability was the company that sold the hospital the computer medication dispensing system and medication administration software. Apparently, there wasn't a glitch in the programming that allowed this to happen unnoticed.
MOO
 
  • #76
Yes different to order 1000mcg of a continuous infusion than a 1 time IV push. I was under the impression the Fentanyl in these cases was given IV push because the article you shared earlier lists the times meds were given, for example it states that Ryan Hayes, age 39, was given 1000mcg Fentanyl at 10:53pm and then another 1000mcg at 11:15pm and then he died at 11:30 PM so I'm assuming he was given an IV push at those 2 times because if it was an infusion it wouldn't have been charted like that.

I will be very interested to see more that comes out about the nurses charting of these patients, for example what were Ryan Hayes vital signs between 10:53pm and 11:15pm? Was he on continuous monitors? Tele? Was he alert and oriented? Was a pain level documented at those times?

Just because Husel ordered these doses to accelerate death did not mean anyone had to follow his orders.

At the time of my previous posts, I didn't feel like there had been enough information released for me to unequivocally determine the circumstances related to the patient's deaths. News outlets thrive on sensationalism and reporters aren't knowledge in medical practice, etc.

Now that I have seen documentation with additional articles and information released it is fairly clear what was going on and it's devastating, infuriating, and an example of gross medical negligence across-the-board.

I believe in dying with dignity and comfort. No one should have to suffer during those final moments and no one should die alone in my opinion. The dying process can be long and traumatic for those that are at bedside even when you have shared what to expect. Often times, family members are beside themselves when their loved one is in the process of dying and they are breathing fast or slow not to mention gasping for air, choking on secretions where they sound like they are drowning, reaching, making various noises, the slow process of mottling turning blue and cold.

During that time as a nurse, I am hyper-vigilant in caring for both patient and family members physically, emotionally, spiritually to the best of my abilities. So, when I read about a medical professional abusing that honor, taking that away from family, taking a life into their own hands and murdering them, because this wasn't dying with dignity or comfort care this was murder...it goes against everything we stand for.

MOO
 
  • #77
Just because Husel ordered these doses to accelerate death did not mean anyone had to follow his orders.

You are right. Husel knew what he ordered the nurses to do. It is hard to believe the nurses wouldn't know what they were ordered to do. They would know the minute or two following what they just did.
They would know that the patient died due to the medication they pushed.

No one reported this? No red flags on the number of overrides on the omnicell? No red flags on the over use of fentanyl? No red flags, whispers, or rumors on the number of deaths on the unit at the hands of the same physician?

These are the death dates. I wanted to see what it looked like isolated on paper.
One 2 occasions, he killed 2 people on a single day. Same nurse?
This isn't including the people that were overdosed and lived.

Feb. 11, 2015
March 1 2015
May 3-4 2015
May 10 2015
April 3 2015

Oct 9 2017 fent shortage mentioned
Oct 9 2017
Oct 11 2017
Oct 13 2017 one pt who died at Mount Carmel St. Ann's

Nov 20 2017
Nov 25 2017
Dec 5 2017
Dec 10 2017

Jan 14 2018
Jan 14 2018

March 25 2018
April 1 2018
May 28 2018
July 15 2018

Sept 25 2018
Sept 30 2018
Oct 24 2018
Nov 13 2018
Nov 15 2018
Nov 19 2018


MOO
 
  • #78
You are right. Husel knew what he ordered the nurses to do. It is hard to believe the nurses wouldn't know what they were ordered to do. They would know the minute or two following what they just did.
They would know that the patient died due to the medication they pushed.

No one reported this? No red flags on the number of overrides on the omnicell? No red flags on the over use of fentanyl? No red flags, whispers, or rumors on the number of deaths on the unit at the hands of the same physician?

These are the death dates. I wanted to see what it looked like isolated on paper.
One 2 occasions, he killed 2 people on a single day. Same nurse?
This isn't including the people that were overdosed and lived.

Feb. 11, 2015
March 1 2015
May 3-4 2015
May 10 2015
April 3 2015

Oct 9 2017 fent shortage mentioned
Oct 9 2017
Oct 11 2017
Oct 13 2017 one pt who died at Mount Carmel St. Ann's

Nov 20 2017
Nov 25 2017
Dec 5 2017
Dec 10 2017

Jan 14 2018
Jan 14 2018

March 25 2018
April 1 2018
May 28 2018
July 15 2018

Sept 25 2018
Sept 30 2018
Oct 24 2018
Nov 13 2018
Nov 15 2018
Nov 19 2018


MOO

Great information but really says a lo that is gut wrenching. I can hear 25 people but it makes it very real and eye opening to see the dates people were murdered. Very disturbing.
 
  • #79
I was looking at the death dates listed above and was curious as to the gaps in time as he was employed by Mount Carmel Hospital since '13 and then I found this article from June 5 2019.
Of course there were more deaths then the 25, this article states why.

It also states other medical staff was not being charged. Are there any other ramifications other then being placed on leave? No infraction on their license? The second article I included says that those staffers would be open and honest about what happened, does that mean testify against Husel under a plea bargain?

Ohio doctor pleads not guilty to murder charges in 25 painkiller overdose deaths

A slew of lawsuits ensued against Husel, the hospital and staff. Husel's medical license was suspended. A criminal investigation was launched. At least 30 nurses were placed on leave.

Columbus police and prosecutors chose to focus on deaths where 500 micrograms of fentanyl or more were administered. Several families have filed lawsuits after their relatives were given 200 micrograms of fentanyl or another drug.

Franklin County Prosecutor Ron O'Brien said the nurses and pharmacists who administered or approved the drugs will not face criminal charges.

Another article:

Hospital officials said earlier this year that 30 employees, including nurses and pharmacists, were placed on leave, while 18 others with ties to the case no longer work there — with many of them having already left in prior years. The officials have said they would be "open and honest about what happened," and have installed safeguards to prevent a recurrence.


MOO

 
  • #80
At the very least he is a flight-risk... He is going to jail for the rest of his life. Why not go on the run and take your chances? What do you have to loose? Why would you give a suspected serial killer bail?
IIRC he surrendered his passport prior to turning himself in. I’ll look for the article
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
141
Guests online
3,300
Total visitors
3,441

Forum statistics

Threads
632,567
Messages
18,628,459
Members
243,196
Latest member
turningstones
Back
Top