OH - Larry Mugrage, 15, fatally shot, Batavia, 19 March 2006

[christine2448]

Been reading everyone's comments....still sad about this, this Saturday morning, as I was sitting on my porch (it's chilly in GA this morning!).....stopped in and was looking at all the pictures of Martin's yard.....doesn't look all that great to me...I was expecting it to be a beautiful lawn/yard......not that it matters. I am praying for all involved this morning, I can't imagine being without one of my sons this morning.

 

[proadvocate]

Very limited information - I've heard nothing about the boy's character, actions, not to mention if he really did ever get friends to also walk on the guy's lawn (he assumes the kid did so - that's not proof at all that he really did), from anyone other than the old man - obviously very biased and not balanced. The poor parents seem too shocked and sad to defend their son. Or maybe the media just isn't interested in that.

With no sidewalks, it is typical that you walk on the lawn - the road is for the cars, the lawns are for the pedestrians.


The above quote by Details pretty well sums up the sidewalk issue.I see no reason the press would lie about there not being any in the neighborhood.So folks either need to pay a few more taxes or let folks walk along their yards.Also as Details was kind enough to point out for us THE ONLY THING WE HAVE AGAINST THE KID IS THE OLD MANS STORY.....Gee I wonder what the odds of a killer lying to save his neck are....I doubt such has ever occured before.:doh:

As for the old mans supposed illnesses....Well ya know lethal injection cures most every ailment known to man at the current time....So he gets no pity from me.

 

[Details]

9News was told that Mugrage was a straight-A student, loved to play soccer and was well-liked by his neighbors.

The kid was being branded a probable and gangster based on the words of the old man who developed this irrational hatred of him - good to hear the other side. "Well liked" can be said about anyone, but straight A to me puts a very good face on the kid.

Such a stupid thing - I wish there was a way to pick up on, and enforce treatment on people as they start showing more signs of irrationality. Might not fix all cases, might well not fix this one, but it keeps happening.

 

[dark_shadows]

The kid was being branded a probable and gangster based on the words of the old man who developed this irrational hatred of him - good to hear the other side. "Well liked" can be said about anyone, but straight A to me puts a very good face on the kid.

Such a stupid thing - I wish there was a way to pick up on, and enforce treatment on people as they start showing more signs of irrationality. Might not fix all cases, might well not fix this one, but it keeps happening.

Hi Details,
I appreciate your post.
It took a while for me to find a news article that actually said something good about the victim.
I will tell you that you are right when you said that people are going on the words of the old man.
Take for instance the 911 call when Martin feels the need to say this;
Martin: I just killed a kid.
Dispatcher: You just killed a kid?
Martin: Yes ma'am.
Dispatcher: Okay, what happened?
Martin: It's been going on for five years.
Dispatcher: What's going on?
Martin: I've been being harassed by him and his parents for five years. Today just blew it up.
Dispatcher: What is your name, sir?
Martin: Charles Martin.
Dispatcher: Okay, what happened, tell me what happened, Charles.
Martin: Kid's just been giving me a bunch of sh**, making the other kids harass me and my place, tearing things up.


He felt the need to throw a defence in during the entire call.
I hear criminals daily blaming their victims.(ie;she was asking to get raped,she was dressed like a s**t wearing a short skirt and drinking.Or,he gave me the finger while driving so I ran him off the road and he and his friends died.ect.)

I have brought many an inmate to court and have witnessed a victim being torn apart on the stand.Sad but true.
If someone is a victim by someone brought into the facility,a big red sticker with the letters "VICN" is put on the front and main tab of the inmate's file while they are being booked.If the inmate is going to be bailed or released when they max out,the victim is notified via a phone call prior to those actions.What the inmate says about the victim has no bearing at all about victim notification.We call the victim.
CRIMINALS BLAME THE VICTIMS.
If I issue an inmate a sanction for bad behavior,some of the inmates,in their eyes see themselves as the victim.They do not see it as corrective based in their actions.

"Victims suffered the fate not because they failed personally to properly accommodate to society, but because they have had few opportunities or resources to better protect themselves, and because social conditions (not victims) promote crime regardless of their actions. Unfortunately, we have used victim precipitation politically to pressure the public to make personal accomomdations to avoid crime.(Women,do not wear short skirts because you are asking to be raped.Do not give someone the finger while driving because you are asking to be killed.If there is no sidewalk,do not walk on someones yard,you want to be murdered.bla bla bla....) Yet, when crime occurs, *we* blame the victim for failing to take sufficient precautions."
*We* as in the media by reporting the criminals voice on this case.The 911 call and his side of the story.Like I said,it took a while to find the article about the good of the boy.

 

[Wrinkles]

Before proceeding, there is NO justification for murdering, as in this case. Even so, I think there is room for understanding that which "might" have avoided this situation. I think there are differing angles to look at this from - perhaps, as in all cases, as we think about what the jurors will face in terms of sentencing - because guilt is clear.

Another website with people weighing in on their thoughts:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1600570/posts

Details, you wrote:
>>"Well liked" can be said about anyone, but straight A to me puts a very good face on the kid.<<

I was a straight A student for "most" semesters, does that shed a different light on me? (that is only a rhetorical question) And...do we think of the boy differently if he was a C student? I know children who are C students who are so caring, I know those who get Ds and Fs - are they "bad" kids (or good kids)? Some D/F students are rebellious, lazy, non-compliant, and some just don't understand the work or don't have the gifting/skills or underlying education (or maybe they have been ill.) We can consider the grades of a child when considering the possibilities of their behavior, we cannot make a judgement call - not in my opinion. And...aren't there "grades" and "behavior" grades?

A number of my friends were straight A students, or those vying for them (you won or lost in certain quarters and depending on the class and your understanding, or how good the teacher was able to get the point across OR whether your final paper was to the "taste" of the teacher.) Some people compete in terms of sports, some do in terms of grades. Some of us want straight A's to prove a point, maybe, that we can be damned tough and work real hard on a goal, whatever it is! I had straight A friends who were just so soft, kind and caring. I had others who were very obviously angry at society and rules, they had their political viewpoints young - they WERE going to get to society (with whom they did not agree) and they were going to do it at every chance that they had (clever kids...they knew they had the smarts, they had seen how their deviousness had worked against all elders, and they were going to use their skills to nail anyone they didn't agree with.)

At our school, it was a "point" system to select Valedictorian/Salutatorians who would speak. I was chosen as a speaker due to my points, but a friend who lost on the speaking approached and asked if I would give them my position to speak (i.e. we would shock the h*ll out of the school authorities when she arrived at the platform and spoke instead of me, placing them all in a position), because after all xxx, yyy, and zzz and she should have won the place I had. I was a little appalled by this approach from my friend, but honored her request. I said, "Write up the speech you want to give in my place, I'll look at it...if I can agree, cool - you can speak."

Bottomline, this gal ran circles around me in terms of pure intelligence (IQ). Even so, when I read her speech which was going to tell everyone in the crowd (parents, teachers, students etc) that all of we students had been trapped as animals by parents and school authorities, I just flat couldn't agree. She wanted to deliver a huge FU to everyone - that wasn't how I felt.

Straight A's can mean any number of things. They certainly didn't mean that I or my Straight A buddies were "good kids." They might have only meant that when we sunk our minds in to accomplishing something - we were going to do it - for bad or for good.

My bet is that there are a number of straight A students in prison because they thought their deviousness was going to be bought and tolerated.

Wrinkles

 

[Wrinkles]

Proadvocate,

>>The above quote by Details pretty well sums up the sidewalk issue.<<

It does for you, but not for me. There is a difference between stepping onto the "edge" of someone's yard to avoid being hit by a car, and purposely and boldy disrespecting a neighbor by cutting across the middle of their yard at will, repeatedly, and despite being politely asked to stay off the grass (more than one time - do we really believe this was a first?) But even if we aren't asked "politely" to stay off someone else's property, should we not want to respect them even as we would want to be respected if we were asking them do the same?

Obviously Martin gave some info to police, and "obviously" it was from his own mouth and perspective:

http://www.fox19.com/Global/story.asp?S=4660806&nav=0zHF
>>Police say that 15 year old Larry Mugrage first had an argument about Mugrage crossing Martin's lawn. Then an hour later, Mugrage again crossed Martin's yard, this time with friends. That is when he became a target for Martin's weapon and rage. In the call, the 911 operator asks Martin what happened and Martin talks about the kids harassing him and tearing things up.<<

IF what Martin said is true (and sure all perps have their defense of themselves, right or wrong), this young man was saying FU in the biggest way - i.e. you aren't going to tell me what to do, I'll trespass against you if I damn well want to and I will bring my buddies to further rub it in to your old face.

I think the fact that we have not yet heard from other parents who felt "threatened" due to their children's infringements on Martin's yard is somewhat telling (although we might hear more in the opposite direction later.) All of those children had the same "sidewalk-less" neighborhood. Did they feel to cut across the Martin lawn? Did he get in those kids faces, or their parents if they "grazed the edge of his grass" when walking home?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1600570/posts
(search word is "appreciate")

An article ...
"Holt said she was aware of one other incident when Martin had complained about kids walking across his lawn.

He spoke to her husband, saying he would appreciate it if he'd keep the kids from running through his yard, she recalled."

This woman could have said, "The old a**h*** got ugly about my kids and said he would shoot them if we didn't keep them off his yard." She didn't, she was quoted as having said that Martin went to her husband and say that "he would appreciate"... This woman did not say that Martin further threatened them or that they had further problems. What is your bet that Mr. Holt spoke to his children and said, "Kids, Mr. Martin has asked me to speak with you..." and "Children, do not walk across that man's yard."

Reason for murder? Nah... Reason to understand that something else was going on here besides a mere "touched the guy's grass," yes.

Tyranny comes in all colors. Sometimes kids push their tyranny until someone snaps - then we all say, "Oh they were just dumb kids!" I know many kids that wouldn't DARE be tyrannical, they know that it is unwise, unkind and, as we were told, "You are asking for it." Kids are NOT dumb...some can even get "Straight A's" to prove how "not dumb" they are. Some don't give a second thought about what they are asking for, because frankly they don't care about anyone else - THEY are the world, it revolves around them. Further, they have parents that make them think that they are more important than anyone - they show up at schools to say, "How dare you correct my little darling" (doesn't matter if "darling" is reigning everywhere they go with complete disrespect of everyone else.)

Reason to kill? no... Reason to think about how to mete out the sentence...perhaps (to some.)

W

 

[Wrinkles]

No fence allowed:

Http://www.union-township.oh.us/zoning/resolution/Article 7.pdf

"Fences are permitted as accessory uses in all districts provided they are not located within any street right-of-way or within the front yard. On corner lots, fences may project into the minimum street side yard. It is the responsibility of the property owner to maintain the fence in a safe manner in good condition in compliance with Section 518. "

Of course there are probably "no trespassing" and "no murder" rules too.

 

[Details]

That fence law seems to prove that the front yards in this area were considered public right of way.

If some idiot neighbor was telling me not to walk on their lawn, when it's my right to do so, I'd also ignore them. Walking across it with friends isn't some emotionally charged 'first shot in the revolution' matter - it's just ignoring someone who is trying to make up new laws out of their own petty desires, and walking where you normally walk. The old man is the tyrant, trying to force his opinions and desires to have the force of law - under penalty of death - that's a tyrant.

I had neighbors who wanted me to drive down my street at 5 miles an hour too, so they could let their toddler play unsupervised in the middle of the street. But that wasn't even close to the speed limit, and a toddler should never be playing in the street unsupervised. I was careful, but I didn't pay attention to their requests, nor was my subsequent 'speeding' down the road a deliberate insult to them - I just didn't pay any attention. Had they decided to shoot me, they'd be murderers, and deserving of no extra consideration because they were annoyed at me for breaking their personal laws. They'd have a far more sympathetic case, but it comes down to trying to make rules for other people that you have no right to make. And absolutely no right to enforce through property damage, let alone death!

 

[Wrinkles]

>>That fence law seems to prove that the front yards in this area were considered public right of way. <<

Actually, I think that if you read the regulations, you'll see that the fence law proves no such thing. On the contrary, right of way is clarified in the regulations. There is a case for "some of the lawn" to be considered right of way (depending upon where the middle of the road is or where the pavement ends)....but it takes laboring over reading the regulations to get that.

The regulations seem to have been created for aesthetic reasons, to assist in maintaining property values, to honor property ownership rights, to promote health, safety, welfare and harmony (this, as culled from reading the regulations.) Harmony... The intimation is honor regulations and rights and promote health, safety, welfare and harmony...

W

 

[BeeBee]

That fence law seems to prove that the front yards in this area were considered public right of way.

If some idiot neighbor was telling me not to walk on their lawn, when it's my right to do so, I'd also ignore them. Walking across it with friends isn't some emotionally charged 'first shot in the revolution' matter - it's just ignoring someone who is trying to make up new laws out of their own petty desires, and walking where you normally walk. The old man is the tyrant, trying to force his opinions and desires to have the force of law - under penalty of death - that's a tyrant.

!

Walking at the edge of a lawn so as not to walk in the road if there is no sidewalks is one thing. Walking across the middle of a persons lawn is another. No one has a right to walk right across the middle of your lawn. And, it's Not their right to do so. I pay my mortgage each month and my lawn is a part of that. Maybe not the part at the edge of the roadway but the rest of it is mine. And, if I say don't walk on it, dont walk on it. If that makes me a tyrant, so be it. But, it's mine.

 

[BarnGoddess]

My sister lives in Milford, Ohio. Her husband works at the Ford Plant at Batavia. I'll call her tomorrow and ask her if she knows about this or even if her husband knows or knew him. I'll let you know what she says. If it's permissable and she does know some inside info, is it permissable if I e-mail her the link to the thread? I don't want to break a rule in the TOS.

As children, my sister and I lived in a middle class neighborhood with many families and some houses without children. Unfortunately, we had neighbors on each side of us with cranky older couples. One elderly man's bedroom window was right by our carport. After school, if my mother wasn't home, we were not allowed to leave our yard. We would strap on our old-fashioned roller skates, LOL, and skate around the small concrete carport area. After all we were just kids in elementary school with some energy to burn off. This thoroughly p**ed off the old guy. It seems as if he chose 3:00 to take his nap, which is about the time we kids got out from school. My parents endured endless complaints and phone calls about our "noisy playing". She suggested numerous times that perhaps he should nap a little earlier in the day. We had to quit skating for a while, so we went on the other side of the house where there was a dead end street. That was a gathering place in the neighborhood and we played ball there. We were allowed there if our mother wasn't home, but the old biddy was just as mean. She didn't like the noise, claimed she couldn't hear her radio when we played. Her best trick was turning the garden hose on us. If we lost a ball or toy in her yard, consider it lost forever. Again, the parents couldn't get this neighbor to relent and let us alone. At that time, there was this great overgrown vacant lot behind her house that made a great play area. We had permission to play there, but she made a stink about us over there as well. My parents eventually petitioned the county and bought the dead end street and we fenced over to her yard. I can't tell you the number of times she called the police for playing there. Again, too much noise.

I believe my point to this is every neighborhood has these characters somewhere. Thank goodness this was back in the middle 50's and times were more innocent. The elderly gentleman passed away and the old biddy moved after her husband passed away. Now the old lady across the street was another kettle of fish. She was the mother of a gay shoe store owner and was a frustrated grandmotherly type. Her house was the source of treats and joy. When she hollered "Yoohoo", that meant something was just out of the oven and we were invited for cookies and cake.

 

[nanandjim]

...As children, my sister and I lived in a middle class neighborhood with many families and some houses without children. Unfortunately, we had neighbors on each side of us with cranky older couples...

Geez...You guys sounded like good kids who wanted to play not take basketballs and throw them against the sides of their houses. I'm sorry that your parents and you kids had to put up with that crap. For me, I don't mind kids playing but I do mind the neighbors' (two of them) gigantic dogs barking all of the time. I figure that it is bad karma for something that I did in a past life.

Back to topic--I will be interested in what your sister has to say. I think that this thread is on a public forum. So, I don't think that it is a problem linking her to it because she would be able to view it as a guest anyway.

 

[BhamMama]

Her best trick was turning the garden hose on us. If we lost a ball or toy in her yard, consider it lost forever.

Wow, that old lady sounds like she could have been the mother of the nut I lived by. What it is with the water hose? When Mr. Nutcase did that to my kids they thought he was playing with them rofl. Hey, it was hot! I on the other hand got hotter and wasn't too pleased.

 

[nanandjim]

...When Mr. Nutcase did that to my kids they thought he was playing with them...

I'm glad that your kids acted like they enjoyed it. If the guy saw that they enjoyed it, he probably would stop.

I really pity people like this. Can you imagine how very miserable they must feel inside??

 

[proadvocate]

Reason to kill? no... Reason to think about how to mete out the sentence...perhaps (to some.)


You are right here,regardless of the kids actions he was in no way a direct threat to the old man hence there was NO reason(understandable or not)to kill him.You are also correct that this gives reason to thnk about the appropriate sentence.The jury should take into account that this was NOT self defense,they should take into account that the old man had went close to 3 yrs without filing any complaintts to proper authoritys,and they should take into account that regardless of how understandable some may see his murder of the kid our laws strictly prohibit such actions.Upon close consideration of these points the jury should at the request of the State return a verdict of guilty as charged and sentence the old guy to death by lethal injection.Sadly due to the hesitancty of our courts to carry out final justice on murderers and the old guys advanced age,no needle will ever probe the old guys veins.Maybe we could understand if some decided to beat the old guy to death 1 night in his cell.....I could.

 

[Wrinkles]

Hello Proadvocate,

Things aren't as cut and dry for me as they are for you, not yet. As a death penalty supporter, I don't think the death penalty is given out often enough, nor the punishment given fast enough. Even so, there are some things about this case that really really bother me. I will be interested in the facts, even though I think there may be some factual things that exist, but may be impossible to prove. Were I a juror, there are only a few things that could be brought forth that "might" get me to agree to less than a death sentence.

Altogether, there are some "noises" in this case, and the commentary surrounding it, that disturb me deeply - that anger me (anger based on hurt and sadness for the life lost and the life ruined), that grieve me.

W

 

[mssheila]

This is going to be a long post, I apologize for the length in advance. I cannot express in words what a tragedy this is all the way around. I'm not defending or accusing anyone, I just want to share my viewpoint on the subject of kids and boundaries. Here's our story...

We had a neighbor move in a couple years ago who has boys the same exact ages as mine. Things were going great that first summer, until one afternoon our kids were playing with the neighbors boys in their powerwheels jeep. I ran into the laundry room for a second to change loads (their dad stayed outside with them), and I looked out the window just in time to see neighbor dad grab one of my boys by the arm very roughly and yank him out so that one of his boys could get in the jeep. I ran outside furious... trying to calm myself enough to talk to the neighbor. When I asked him, not quite so calmly, why he grabbed my son like that, he said that he had asked my 4 year old son to let his son have a turn, and my son just wouldn't get out. So he "took" him out. I told him I saw HOW he "took" him out, and if he EVER laid a hand on one of my children ever again, I'd be calling the police. He was apologetic, even apologized to my son, but things were never the same.

After that incident, we tried to let the kids play together, but the father was getting more and more out of control. I'd hear him yelling at his own boys, I'd see him treating his kids as roughly as he'd treated my son.

Anyway, things deteriorated to the point where the dad, a complete loose cannon now, was calling my house screaming expletives at me because my son had rang his doorbell while the baby was napping- or because one of my kids crossed the property line. I filed a restraining order and we have had absolutely NOTHING to do with them since then. I did call CPS on him several times, though I don't know the outcome of those calls. We had to cut all ties with them and instruct our boys to stay in our yard. They did the same with their kids. There was no dealing with this man- he was out of control.

I would have a FIT if I caught my kids in their yard. For their own security, I've instructed them NEVER to go over there. I've told them to respect all the neighbor's properties. My kids KNOW that you don't go in other people's yards. You just don't ever know what someone will do.

Like this guy, Mr. Martin, we can't have fences. Now... If this loose cannon neighbor of mine shot some teenager like Mr. Martin did, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. But it won't be my kid that's running through his yard (I HOPE). It's just a sad fact that you just don't mess with people these days. This is a dangerous world we live in, and there are lots of crazy people living all around us.

Yes, the family of this boy should have been teaching him some of these things. Unfortunately for everyone, though, it's too late. Mr. Martin will have to pay for his crime, and the parents of this boy will have to live without their son forever.

This whole thing is just so heartbreaking to me. I will NEVER condone what the man did to this poor kid, never... but parents need to be teaching their kids boundaries and respect.

 

[concernedperson]

I really can't get over this man shooting a boy for walking on his grass. There are no sidewalks there is only an easement. Most counties call an easement 12 feet from the street. He was particulary proud of what is presented is not a roadmap for future landscape architects.

Granted it was his property and he felt an affinity for it. Mostly, I think he was delusional. He took out his delusional thinking on an innocent. Also, I may add that delusional thinking doesn't always coincide with crazy. It can be a total entitlement delusion. These are the worst. JMO.

 

[Amraann]

mssheila??

WHy can't you have a fence?

Is it a deed restriction thing? If that is the case then I would think Mr Martin had the option of moving to a place where he could have a fence and his pretty pretty lawn.

 

[Wrinkles]

Dear mssheila,

Thank you so much for your story. You wrote:

>>This whole thing is just so heartbreaking to me. I will NEVER condone what the man did to this poor kid, never... but parents need to be teaching their kids boundaries and respect.<<

I am so close to agreeing with you word for word. Even so...I struggle with the "poor kid" thing. Some 15 year old boys are not kids in the respect that they have wanted to rule for many years and will not accept reasonability, wisdom or experience (my son wanted to rule the earth at 4, but definitely at 12 - by 15 he figured he should be king.) Some 15 year olds have parents who give in to these boys...they just don't have the strength, energy or, eventually, the desire to keep fighting for the boy or the society that they have to live within. One teacher told me, "Don't give up on him! So many do when the boys are this age" - I felt so close to ready...so worn out, yet I loved my boy and my society. I feel sure that my "poor kid" whose will was so much stronger than everyone (every TWO) around would be dead today (and maybe others with him) if his dad and I hadn't loved him AND our society enough to seriously lay our lives down to continue trying to teach him and reign him in. This was HELL, incedredibly painful - but you would have to live it to know it!

Some societies consider young men of 15 far different that we do. In one way, I can say "poor kid" because they just don't get it - in other ways I can say "poor kid" because no one even made an effort to teach them boundaries and respect. In other ways, I think..."you want to reign, you are going to push this until you have it, okay...go for it and see how it works."

Thanks for sharing.

W