OH - Ma’Khia Bryant, 16, fatally shot multiple times by Columbus police officer, 20 April 2021

[imstilla.grandma]

(Edited to add quote)


How does this compare to a mass shooter killing 17 people with an AR15?

I’m not sure it does at first ponder. Maybe it is a relevant comparison. Idk. My post was simply documentation support for the op.

 

[Betty P]

(Edited to add quote)


How does this compare to a mass shooter killing 17 people with an AR15?

Its compzring split second decisions made by police officers when they arrive on a scene where a perptrator is attacking people with a deadly weapon, putting their lives in danger.

 

[kittythehare]

If I went after someone with a knife, I should expect that my own life would be in danger.

For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction. Charging someone with a knife can easily end up with disastrous results. I think everyone should know and expect that.

This officer saved a girl's life by making this split second decision. It pains me that the scrutiny and judgment coming down on him is making him out to be the bad guy---instead of the teen with the deadly weapon and aggressive actions.

It is not a judgement.
There is an internal investigation ongoing.
We are awaiting that report, it is not finalised.
It's like everything Katy.
Let's wait for the facts.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Untrained discombobulated teens can be quite deadly, when armed with a knife and pinning another teen against a car.

So what would people in the community be saying, if the officer didnt immediately shoot, and the teen stabbed the girl in pink in her neck, killing her?

Would we be complaining that the officer didn't value the dead teen's life enough to step in and save her?

BBM It seems to be a no win situation. LE will be blamed and vilified no matter what. IMHO these recent cases have to do with criminal activity and NOT race.

 

[everybodhi]

The question was asked whether a police officer has ever been criticized for not shooting someone. The Florida high school shooting is an example of that happening.

If that police officer at Stoneman Douglas high school had spied the shooter aiming at his first victim and shot him dead before he'd had the chance to kill anyone, would he have been criticized for that too?

I personally don’t think so, jmo.
Going into a school armed with an AR15 is a very different situation.
I think if the teen girl was aiming an AR15, rather than a kitchen knife, people would feel different too.
It’s just much easier, and quicker, to kill someone with an AR15, she could have even mowed down everyone there with a barrage of bullets, including the cop. No way is that possible with the knife she held, she didn’t even grab a chef’s knife!
And this whole idea that LE needs to always shoot at center mass doesn’t make sense when the situation can obviously often be diffused without inflicting a death penalty in the street.
This is a uniquely American problem unless you want to compare the US to a few poor countries, like the Philippines under Duterte, where extrajudicial killings in the streets by the police are also the norm.
Mapping Police Violence

 

[IceIce9]

If the officer had stood there and not shot the attacker and the unarmed girl had been stabbed and died, people would be blaming the officer for NOT acting to save her.

 

[Cappuccino]

I personally don’t think so, jmo.
Going into a school armed with an AR15 is a very different situation.
I think if the teen girl was aiming an AR15, rather than a kitchen knife, people would feel different too.
It’s just much easier, and quicker, to kill someone with an AR15, she could have even mowed down everyone there with a barrage of bullets, including the cop. No way is that possible with the knife she held, she didn’t even grab a chef’s knife!
And this whole idea that LE needs to always shoot at center mass doesn’t make sense when the situation can obviously often be diffused without inflicting a death penalty in the street.
This is a uniquely American problem unless you want to compare the US to a few poor countries, like the Philippines under Duterte, where extrajudicial killings in the streets by the police are also the norm.
Mapping Police Violence
View attachment 293770

It's not really a uniquely American problem, it's just writ large in America because a) you're bigger than most countries, and b) there are more guns per capita than in most countries.

The police in my own country, Ireland, recently shot and killed a man armed with a knife. The police ombudsman is carrying out an investigation into the shooting so I can't say for sure whether it will be adjudicated as lawful or not, but I'm just making the point that these same issues arise even in small countries where the police don't routinely carry guns. It just doesn't make world headlines in the same way that American affairs do.

 

[everybodhi]

Its compzring split second decisions made by police officers when they arrive on a scene where a perptrator is attacking people with a deadly weapon, putting their lives in danger.

In the US, you can expect to be killed in that situation, for sure.
But there are options to the split second decision of LE always aiming center mass with intent to kill.
There’s a reason they say “don’t bring a knife to a gun fight”, she didn’t stand a chance, her life was over the second he saw the kitchen knife.

 

[everybodhi]

It's not really a uniquely American problem, it's just writ large in America because a) you're bigger than most countries, and b) there are more guns per capita than in most countries.

The police in my own country, Ireland, recently shot and killed a man armed with a knife. The police ombudsman is carrying out an investigation into the shooting so I can't say for sure whether it will be adjudicated as lawful or not, but I'm just making the point that these same issues arise even in small countries where the police don't routinely carry guns. It just doesn't make world headlines in the same way that American affairs do.

The per capita rate of gun ownership and police killings are higher in the US than any western country, that’s just a sad fact.
I live in a country where the only gun allowed is a single shot air pump rifle and you have to apply and register to get it, a few cops carry guns but most don’t.
There’s very little homicide.

 

[Betty P]

In the US, you can expect to be killed in that situation, for sure.
But there are options to the split second decision of LE always aiming center mass with intent to kill.
There’s a reason they say “don’t bring a knife to a gun fight”, she didn’t stand a chance, her life was over the second he saw the kitchen knife.

I think the key point here is "split-second decision". When an armed attacker is in motion, moving to attack a victim, it's very difficult to use a less lethal option. Its compounded when there's a crowd of people close by who could be struck by a stray bullet. As quickly as Ma'Khia was moving, I don't see how he could have reached her in time to try to wrestle the knife away.

The experts know more than I, though, and we'll see what happens when the investigation is complete.

 

[Cappuccino]

The per capita rate of gun ownership and police killings are higher in the US than any western country, that’s just a sad fact.
I live in a country where the only gun allowed is a single shot air pump rifle and you have to apply and register to get it, a few cops carry guns but most don’t.
There’s very little homicide.

I live in a similar country, gun control is strict and, other than special armed response units, the police don't carry weapons. And yet the issue of acceptable use of force in dangerous situations still arises.

It's more common in America, but not unique to America.

 

[everybodhi]

I think the key point here is "split-second decision". When an armed attacker is in motion, moving to attack a victim, it's very difficult to use a less lethal option. Its compounded when there's a crowd of people close by who could be struck by a stray bullet. As quickly as Ma'Khia was moving, I don't see how he could have reached her in time to try to wrestle the knife away.

The experts know more than I, though, and we'll see what happens when the investigation is complete.

<modsnip> her legs weren’t small. You don’t think shooting her legs would have brought her threat down as fast as her death?
I understand they are trained to kill every time they fire their weapon, but is that really necessary in every situation?
People are being regularly killed by LE for petty crimes.

 

[mickey2942]

RSBM.

Children come in all shapes and sizes, but children are children, not "children," regardless of their size. Distinguishing between a child and a "child" based on physical attributes (or any aspects other than age) isn't appropriate IMO. I'm certain you know this already, but any 16-year-old child, no matter the size, has a brain that is still developing. She/he is still ruled by the amygdala & thus fight or flight responses. She/he is still more apt to behave impulsively. A 16-yr-old is a full-fledged child, not a "child," under any circumstances. Sorry if that sounds harsh; I mean no disrespect.

A "child". Correct. However, physical size is an issue in this context. The victim was armed with a deadly weapon, and to the officer, looked like she was going to inflict severe damage on another person in an altercation, a person who was unarmed.

We need the entire context in viewing this situation, starting with, why were the police called?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

• In the wake of the fatal police shooting of 16-year-old Ma’Khia Bryant in Columbus, Ohio, former Missouri State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson said that there needs to be more consistency in police training.
• “I think we need to look at the whole system. *Create a network where bad officers, if they’re put in this network, they can’t continue to go on from police department to police department,” said Johnson. bbm

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/21/off...icing-systems-says-former-police-captain.html
*perhaps the model to halt the “priest shuffling” pastoral practice could be examined.

 

[kittythehare]

-She had to be stopped
-Was his use of force, 4 shots, FOUR , justified if one could have stopped her, possibly without killing her?
-Had he any other methods at his disposal that were less lethal and equally effective at stopping her?
-Did this officer's special training provide him with additional skills that he could have used instead?
These are my questions about the shooting.

What about Ma'khia?
-What happened in her life that made her want to stab people?
-Had she ever displayed violence before and if so what was the outcome?
-Had any interventions taken place to save her , from herself and others.
-Was she a victim of bullying, because of her weight , circumstances or personality?

What happened on the day of the shooting? Where was she? Who was taking care of her- who was the responsible adult in her life on that day?
Lastly, I cannot tell from the videos whether she was in a blind uncontrolled rage or merely trying to impress whatever members of her family or peer group that were present at the time?
Was she so out of control that she didn't recognise the significance of the police being present, even though she may have called them herself?

These are the questions I'll be pondering.


She didn't attempt to stab the girl that was down. Why not?

 

[IceIce9]

People are being regularly killed by LE for petty crimes.

Respectfully, stabbing another child isn’t a petty crime. IMO anyway.

 

[Dawookie]

Here you go.
Every state has these.
ETA full link
Division Directives

Section 2.01 deals with Use of Force.

He reacted to a deadly force situation with the same amount of force.

 

[lynchmob67]

Untrained discombobulated teens can be quite deadly, when armed with a knife and pinning another teen against a car.

So what would people in the community be saying, if the officer didnt immediately shoot, and the teen stabbed the girl in pink in her neck, killing her?

Would we be complaining that the officer didn't value the dead teen's life enough to step in and save her?

Yep, my opinion, most definitely.

Hey, here’s an idea, why even bother calling the police? You can just work this out amongst yourselves. Let the officers respond to calls where their help is welcomed and citizens can control themselves so as to not endanger the lives of those around them.

Black, white, brown, doesn’t matter to me, you’re breaking the law.

Normally I’d refrain from posting a controversial opinion. This one’s got me riled.

 

[Dawookie]

We can agree that shooting her was reasonable action, but multiple times that ended in her death? This is the question, not whether he shot her. He was apparently a trained military marksman, so wouldn't he have been able to disable her or stop her from stabbing the female in pink without killing her? There is also the view from the UK, that their officers disarm knife wielding teens without killing them. No doubt he saved the pink clothed female from serious injury or even death, but considering multiple variables including his prior experience, could MB's death be avoided?

There's a difference between being a trained marksman with a rifle and one with a pistol. There's also a difference in shooting at the range and having the added level of stress of being in a situation of having to use your weapon in a life or death situation.

The whole talk about shooting an arm or a leg is all Hollywood fiction. Even the guys who are among the most highly trained shooters in the world and could possibly do something like that, are taught to shoot center mass because it stops the threat. A perfect example of that is Bin Laden. DEVGRU operators spend countless hours and amounts of ammunition on the range training. Those guys would have the skills to disable someone and their shot choice was the head and chest because it stopped the threat of him shooting at them.

 

[Katerz]

The cop was a skilled sharpshooter, her legs weren’t small. You don’t think shooting her legs would have brought her threat down as fast as her death?
I understand they are trained to kill every time they fire their weapon, but is that really necessary in every situation?
People are being regularly killed by LE for petty crimes.

This wasn’t a petty crime. She was trying to commit murder. But why are we not also talking about the men who is bashing in that females head after she lands on the ground?