GUILTY OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #86

[ohioexpat63]

I wonder which parents family bloodline had mental health issues/history. I, too, believe JW is warped. I wonder how all of them would be diagnosed according to the DSM-5

 

[Skully67]

I wonder which parents family bloodline had mental health issues/history. I, too, believe JW is warped. I wonder how all of them would be diagnosed according to the DSM-5

I think we all have the capability to have MH issues. I think the isolation just aggravated it. They lived in an echo chamber.

 

[rsd1200]

Will 4 be transported to the courthouse tomorrow or will he have to wait until the jury reaches a verdict? Will he be in jail issued clothes when verdict is read or his biker vest?

"Biker vest"? I can certainly say, that's NOT a biker vest. None that we'd ever wear anyway... That's a fancy, western, cowpoke vest. If he's been transported thus far, he'll be transported again.

 

[Myland]

Good points. I'm 5 ft and wear women's 10. So height/weight has no bearing on shoe size.

Jmo I also didn’t know the distance between that chair and bar or whatever it was was that small. Nervous and pulling a body being a bigger man would have taken some talent to not at least swipe that chair. Also I didn’t know Jake said Billy tried the door handle at Frankie’s. And why didn’t state ask Jake while on stand who was with you when you bought the 1911. So many things the state could of cleared up with Jake on stand unless they were afraid of the lies he was capable of telling too. Jmo

 

[justtrish]

I thought client/atty privilege was forever.

That I don't know, I just know what this lawyer repeated several times. So weather Drew signed something saying he could speak upon his death or what I don't now, but he said he was confident Stacey would be found after his death. The show was Grace Vs Abrams.

 

[Seattle1]

Pike County murder trial: After a nearly three-month trial, closing arguments concluded

The defense delivered their closing arguments to the jury Tuesday as the trial of a man accused of killing eight people in Pike County begins to wind down.

www.wcpo.com

11/29/22

[..]

The recordings made of the Wagner family — particularly the recordings from the R&L truck Jake and George drove together — should be re-heard as the jury thinks from George's point of view that BCI was trying to frame his family for the murders, Parker urged. With that perspective, the recordings take on a different meaning, said Parker.

"Look at the evidence, take time to understand it, look at it from George's point of view," he said.

He pointed out the jury never heard George's interview with BCI at the Montana border, despite the prosecution citing it regularly during their cross examination of George.

[..]

The prosecution's rebuttal​

As for the deals made with Jake and Angela, Wilson said dealing with them was "distasteful" but necessary. Without Jake's confession that led investigators to the murder weapons in the concrete buckets, the marijuana and drug operations Chris Sr. and Kenneth were involved in lingered as a possible motive they believed the defense could use.

"But when Jake led us to the guns ... no longer could they use that defense," said Wilson. "It destroyed that defense and it destroyed all the rumors you heard in the community."

From there, no longer were there suspicions surrounding cartel involvement, a fight Chris Sr. had shortly before the murders with someone who'd threatened his whole family or "the dirty sheriff who's now in prison," said Wilson.

Angela's deal was crafted so investigators could determine whether Jake's statement was credible and, ultimately, her confession independently corroborated his, Wilson said.

"They only way that happens without her knowing what he said is if they're telling the truth about what they observed, what they knew" said Wilson. "That's the only way that happens."

[..]

As for why the jury never heard the recording of George's interview at the border, Wilson said that was a strategic choice made by the prosecution in order to nudge George into taking the stand.

"If we play that interview, he doesn't take the stand and we never get a shot at asking him questions," said Wilson. "We don't play that and the only way he can get what he's trying to say in front of you is by taking that stand and subjecting him to cross examination."

George did, ultimately, take the witness stand and endured cross examination; Wilson said he was curious to know if the jury had noticed the telltale signs the defendant had been coached.

"Why do you do that unless your answer is something other than the truth?" said Wilson.

[..]

Wilson concluded by reminding the jury that the state does not have to prove its case beyond "all possible doubt," only beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[rsd1200]

I wonder which parents family bloodline had mental health issues/history. I, too, believe JW is warped. I wonder how all of them would be diagnosed according to the DSM-5

I'm thinking that between AW's sexual assault at a young age, and never dealing with that, then marrying G3, who is the youngest, and, has shown signs of being difficult/possibly demanding/anti social, most of his life, it created a perfect storm. I used to watch a t.v. show about how two people were just jerks, until they "found" each other, then it ramped up to murder and mayhem. Together, they became very dangerous. Had they never met, they may still have been total jerks and thieves, but maybe never evolved to murder.

 

[justtrish]

I think we all have the capability to have MH issues. I think the isolation just aggravated it. They lived in an echo chamber.

I think living with AW and the mental games she played since birth would be a big influence. Not getting help for underlying issue is huge too. Many mental health issues can be at least helped with proper care. We know they didn't believe in any medical interventions (well except when they suspect poisoning I guess) I do feel for Jake and George. Getting a head injury and just taping it up and not being evaluated. I mean who knows what else happened over the years that was ignored or dismissed.

 

[rsd1200]

I wonder which parents family bloodline had mental health issues/history. I, too, believe JW is warped. I wonder how all of them would be diagnosed according to the DSM-5

I'm thinking that between AW's sexual assault at a young age, and never dealing with that, then marrying G3, who is the youngest, and, has shown signs of being difficult/possibly demanding/anti social, most of his life, it created a perfect storm. I used to watch a t.v. show about how two people were just jerks, until they "found" each other, then it ramped up to murder and mayhem. Together, they became very dangerous. Had they never met, they may still have been total jerks and thieves, but maybe never evolved to murder.

 

[Cool Cats]

Will 4 be transported to the courthouse tomorrow or will he have to wait until the jury reaches a verdict? Will he be in jail issued clothes when verdict is read or his biker vest?

I think he will be wearing his "biker vest" same clothes he always wears.

I was wondering who all will be in court when the jury starts deliberations tomorrow. Then what about all the other days they deliberate? Who has to be there?

I can't remember how they did it with other trials I have followed. I'm sure someone around here knows what court personnel are in court during jury deliberations.

Often you will hear the judge gets a message from the jury that the jurors want to see certain evidence again. Or they have a question to ask the judge etc....I assume the judge is in the courthouse but I don't think George needs to be there, and I don't see why his attorneys and the prosecutors need to sit in court to wait for what could be days and days.

22 charges the jury has to discuss and vote on and be clear about, etc. I would be surprised if the jury doesn't have any questions come up that they need answered.

 

[Piffcat]

the wagners were not positive they would all be coming home when they set off on their evil murder spree. crsr fr kr all known to fight and win to defend their family. there must have been 20 guns in crsr safe including a mac10. they were armed to the teeth and the wagners knew it. staying home was not an option for george. his sks and sharpshooter aim were a critical part of the attack. thinking that jake and g3 would attempt this slaughter without g4 is not reasonable. g4 had fake custody documents made up in case he died during the killings. he was the strongest, best shot huge temper and violent tendacies. not only did he go that night he reveled in the destruction of human life. i cant wait for the jury to burst this psycos bubble.

 

[Myland]

the wagners were not positive they would all be coming home when they set off on their evil murder spree. crsr fr kr all known to fight and win to defend their family. there must have been 20 guns in crsr safe including a mac10. they were armed to the teeth and the wagners knew it. staying home was not an option for george. his sks and sharpshooter aim were a critical part of the attack. thinking that jake and g3 would attempt this slaughter without g4 is not reasonable. g4 had fake custody documents made up in case he died during the killings. he was the strongest, best shot huge temper and violent tendacies. not only did he go that night he reveled in the destruction of human life. i cant wait for the jury to burst this psycos bubble.

Jmo but based on what you wrote above taking one gun each was not a reasonable thought either.

 

[rsd1200]

You know what this reminds me I saw a show where Drew Peterson's lawyer (past lawyer not current lawyer) was on talking about Drew and the crimes, etc. He is still bound by attorney client privilege and he wouldn't talk about what Drew told him, but his statement was when Drew is no longer alive, they will know what happened to Staci. The hosts pressed him on if he knew where she was and I believe he said he knew what happened to her or something like that.

He does now say he no longer trusts Drew and he would not represent him again because of that.

I know defense attorneys have a job to do, but man it's a tough pill to swallow to think that this man might know exactly where Staci's body is located and he won't say. Staci's kids live not knowing what happened to her and a man is allowed to confess something to his lawyer and then nothing.. no closure for her kids. One of the hosts said you would allow her kids to think it's still possible she just ran off and left them and you know otherwise and won't tell, not even send an anonymous tip to a tip line or something and he just kept saying he couldn't speak about it, but when Drew was no longer alive he thought she would be found.

Attorney/client I am assuming is not longer an issue if the client is dead. Horrible to think a LE officer knows how to get away with murder and does and tells his attorney and nothing can happen to him. Thankfully he's in prison for his other wife's murder or we might be dealing wtih dead wife number 4 or 5 by now.

That would be hard to keep, but by law, he has to do so to protect the integrity of the office. It's something you'd not want to know, and have to sit on though. Your attorney/client's privilege is supposed to last beyond death, but he might could get a ruling to release the information under these circumstances. His attorney has even been disbarred and can't tell Drew's confessions. He said he fully believed in him in the beginning. That attorney was the only one who got disbarred out of three who were said to have committed more grievous offenses. Odd.

 

[ohioexpat63]

I'm thinking that between AW's sexual assault at a young age, and never dealing with that, then marrying G3, who is the youngest, and, has shown signs of being difficult/possibly demanding/anti social, most of his life, it created a perfect storm. I used to watch a t.v. show about how two people were just jerks, until they "found" each other, then it ramped up to murder and mayhem. Together, they became very dangerous. Had they never met, they may still have been total jerks and thieves, but maybe never evolved to murder.

It just seems something must have occurred to trigger JWs bloodlust, besides fear for S. His performance on the stand was extremely gross.

I'm not on a jury so I can be biased. I wanted this entire family hanging from the tallest tree, once JW and AW confessed. It was all I needed to hear. Nothing in this trial changed my opinion. Whatever the jury decides I'm good with. They have all the evidence and have spent 2 months of their lives in misery.

I wonder why Parker slipped in the comment about if you believe 4 was there remember he wasn't there to kill anyone but to save JW from pop's (not an exact quote). Was he setting up an ineffectual defense appeal for George 4?

Anyway, I'm glad it is over and I have learned a lot from folks from all over the globe.

For the Rhoden/Gilley family's, I am hoping BW sees it'll be pointless to go thru a trial.

All My Opinion

 

[Cool Cats]

the wagners were not positive they would all be coming home when they set off on their evil murder spree. crsr fr kr all known to fight and win to defend their family. there must have been 20 guns in crsr safe including a mac10. they were armed to the teeth and the wagners knew it. staying home was not an option for george. his sks and sharpshooter aim were a critical part of the attack. thinking that jake and g3 would attempt this slaughter without g4 is not reasonable. g4 had fake custody documents made up in case he died during the killings. he was the strongest, best shot huge temper and violent tendacies. not only did he go that night he reveled in the destruction of human life. i cant wait for the jury to burst this psycos bubble.

Well put. Good points.

I think the closing arguments by both the prosecution and defense, plus "Clark Kent's" rebuttal, may have convinced some posters of George's guilt or convinced some posters that the prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that George knew all along about the murder plans. At least that George was seeing his family preparing for the murders and knew where Jake and Billy were going that night but did nothing to stop it.

I believe George went with Billy and Jake that night and gave his opinions on the planning. Plus was involved in the cover up and going over with the others of what to say to BCI when BCI asked them questions.

Angela asked her mom and others to call LE under false names to say the Wagners did not do it. Also, she told people not to talk to BCI. George could have been involved with that too. She complained that her brother's partner Randa, and maybe her brother also, were saying too much to BCI.

 

[rsd1200]

Jmo I may be the only one but I think Parker did a great job. I didn’t know Angela stated the wrong color of truck. And I didn’t know Billy told her to get two pair of shoes. At thanksgiving I had someone say you know how tall and big so and so is (about same height at Billy) and guess what size of shoe he wears? They said 12. And that folks could be the reason the state never told shoe size because Billy and George may be the same size. And defense can’t use the size either if Billy and George are same size. Jmo

I agree. I thought he did a really good job. Your reasoning behind the shoeprints is the same behind my "need to know" the sizes of all of their feet, even AW's. I went back and looked at his extradition hearing, in Lexinton, KY, and his hands are not overtly large for his stature, so his feet may not be either. Seemed average. Can't believe I never noticed Canepa in the courtroom! She's biting her lip and clutching her paperwork. Maybe she has a case of nerves.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Jmo but based on what you wrote above taking one gun each was not a reasonable thought either.

I have never believed only 3 guns were taken by the Wagners that night. They might have each taken a primary weapon which was used and each had a back up weapon with them or in the vehicle easily accessible if something jammed. Once they were done with the killings that night they would have known they only used the three primary guns and got rid of those. There would have been no need to get rid of any gun they did not use. When Jake finally admitted guilt he might not have offered up they had more guns with them. They seemed to put a lot of thought into planning these murders, so one would think they would have planned for the worst case scenario. With the close distance Frankies trailer was to Chris Srs. they might have planned for the worst case scenario with Frankie coming out of his dwelling with a gun. I could be wrong though.

 

[Dudly]

Ok, I will add this into all the discussion of shoe sizes. Depending on the type of shoe, my left is 1/2-1 size larger than my right. I put insoles in my right to make that shoe fit better. It isn’t uncommon and there are shoe exchanges where you can trade one that don’t fit for one that does in the same style if available….

 

[Myland]

Jmo after Parker talked about the truck and movie, I think Jake made that whole false bed up to make it more theatrical. Jake wanted his story to be like something out of a scene. Hid under false bed and slithered out and under truck. Give me a break. Stood in hallway and fired in different directions, seriously! Gave his gun to Billy to hold and Billy fired a couple more times into a dead person. Jmo

 

[Skully67]

Ok, I will add this into all the discussion of shoe sizes. Depending on the type of shoe, my left is 1/2-1 size larger than my right. I put insoles in my right to make that shoe fit better. It isn’t uncommon and there are shoe exchanges where you can trade one that don’t fit for one that does in the same style if available….

I know someone with that issue. She buys 2 pairs 1 size apart. I have 1 foot that is thicker then the other, but length the same. Shoe stretcher helps.