OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #51

[sunshineray]

I'm not a notary but it seems to me that notarizing custody or guardianship documents for one's own great-granddaughter and great grandson shows a huge lack of judgement. (Whether Rita knew anything or not). Actually it's kind of morbid when you think about it.

Or it shows a willingness to help deceive the court system for family member's benefit...only other thing it could have been was fearing to say no.

 

[Fight4justice]

Or it shows a willingness to help deceive the court system for family member's benefit...only other thing it could have been was fearing to say no.

Yes I think I would have been a little worried myself if I were her and refused to sign

 

[Dudly]

There has been talk of Billy selling car parts & Big Chris like to rebuild wrecked cars for re-sell to make a profit, if I was wanting scrap metal and car parts and didn’t mind to be caught with stolen goods (like in the past) I would have me a 18 wheeler hauling stuff and to pick up broke down vehicle alone the highways to scrap out, most of the time these cars are left for the State to pickup and go to auction, just saying, looks like it could be done JMO
Even better if you have someone to stick a notary seal on the title to be crushed for scrap, JMO

In Ohio you have to have a title to a car that is sold for scrap. The title gets sent in and is nullified because the car no longer exists.
All the VINs of cars at CRsr's place were checked and none reported as stolen. If you buy used body parts to fix a wrecked car you have to have receipts showing you bought them from a business that can sell them legally. It takes a special permit from the State of Ohio to be allowed to sell auto parts. They have gotten very picky about used car parts to keep chop shops from being easy money. If you are found with illegally purchased parts on your car, they get confiscated and crushed. They whole car could possibly get crushed with enough illegal parts on it.
The State doesn't sell abandoned cars unless the owner can not be found. They send the owner a notice that their car is impounded and they have X number of days to pay storage fees and get it back.

 

[Cool Cats]

Do we know who this investigator is? It's not the one being investigated himself, is it?

"As the date for the Oct. 21 date for the trial approached, prosecutors requested another delay due to the fact an investigator whose testimony they obviously feel is necessary to their case would not have been available on that date."

First trial in Rhoden murders set for Nov. 18 - Portsmouth Daily Times

The investigator they were talking about is the lead BCI agent on the case who is almost always there in court.
BCI SPECIAL AGENT RYAN SCHEIDERER

Wagner Arraignments - Special Agent Scheiderer on left in photos

BCI Special Agent Scheiderer on far left

 

[Cool Cats]

We discussed this at the time. It is possible that one or both of the casings were there before the murders. They could be from CRsr's guns when he reloaded them sometime. We really do not know if they are something important or not. Hopefully they are...

Thankx! I wasn't around for the discussion. I would be surprised if these were the casings from the murders because of the brass catchers and the meticulous way they "covered their tracks."

But we know for sure Gary was killed with large caliber bullets per autopsy report.
Because large caliber is not mentioned for the others I assume a smaller caliber was used.

 

[Betty P]

Any one know "who" the Mod is on this case? I think we will need a new thread when this trial starts - or is there going to be a separate one for it?

Anyone? and TIA!

I just reported to Mods on your comment, pretty sure it's Sillybilly who updates the threads. Thanks for the reminder, Niner!

ETA: As for caliber of weapons and different shell casings. the preliminary AR's stated that two different caliber guns were used to shoot CR1 and GR. GR was shot with a larger caliber weapon. RIP

Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range

 

[Betty P]

Thankx! I wasn't around for the discussion. I would be surprised if these were the casings from the murders because of the brass catchers and the meticulous way they "covered their tracks."

But we know for sure Gary was killed with large caliber bullets per autopsy report.
Because large caliber is not mentioned for the others I assume a smaller caliber was used.

I've wondered about that and wouldn't be surprised if the casings LE found came from the W's guns. In the interviews linked above, Gary's dad said LE told him about the casings in the context of them belonging to the killers. His interview was several days after the murders, so LE would have had time to do some kind of testing to confirm that.

My current theory is that CR Sr's trailer was the Wags first crime scene. They may have screwed up, had problems with the brass catchers that they fixed later.

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We'll find out.....

 

[Loomis124]

Do we know who this investigator is? It's not the one being investigated himself, is it?

"As the date for the Oct. 21 date for the trial approached, prosecutors requested another delay due to the fact an investigator whose testimony they obviously feel is necessary to their case would not have been available on that date."

First trial in Rhoden murders set for Nov. 18 - Portsmouth Daily Times

DBM

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I've wondered about that and wouldn't be surprised if the casings LE found came from the W's guns. In the interviews linked above, Gary's dad said LE told him about the casings in the context of them belonging to the killers. His interview was several days after the murders, so LE would have had time to do some kind of testing to confirm that.

My current theory is that CR Sr's trailer was the Wags first crime scene. They may have screwed up, had problems with the brass catchers that they fixed later.

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We'll find out.....

Maybe the brass catcher was knocked off during the fight that Big Chris put up, according to autopsy report, He fought back, JMO

 

[Loomis124]

The investigator they were talking about is the lead BCI agent on the case who is almost always there in court.
BCI SPECIAL AGENT RYAN SCHEIDERER

Wagner Arraignments - Special Agent Scheiderer on left in photos

BCI Special Agent Scheiderer on far left

I don't have the link at hand, but he was also mentioned by AC as one who the Wagners vowed to seek revenge on in their secret meetings. I'm sure glad they have a confidential information resource! JMO

 

[Betty P]

Maybe the brass catcher was knocked off during the fight that Big Chris put up, according to autopsy report, He fought back, JMO

Yes, that's possible. It sounds like there was a struggle with Big Chris. JMO, the whole spree may have come close to ending right then!

In the video above and others on You Tube, people test different brass catchers. Some perform better than others. Some do come loose, are only fastened on with one velcro strip.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Yes, that's possible. It sounds like there was a struggle with Big Chris. JMO, the whole spree may have come close to ending right then!

In the video above and others on You Tube, people test different brass catchers. Some perform better than others. Some do come loose, are only fastened on with one velcro strip.

BP
Do you think one of the killers where wounded during the assault on the Rhodens Family, I wonder about the DNA checking, Jake at one time lived there part time and Billy was like a business partner or least has been there, LE has something more than their telling, maybe (Blood) JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I've wondered about that and wouldn't be surprised if the casings LE found came from the W's guns. In the interviews linked above, Gary's dad said LE told him about the casings in the context of them belonging to the killers. His interview was several days after the murders, so LE would have had time to do some kind of testing to confirm that.

My current theory is that CR Sr's trailer was the Wags first crime scene. They may have screwed up, had problems with the brass catchers that they fixed later.

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We'll find out.....

I think it is entirely possible that the 2 shell casings ended up somewhere where the Wagners couldn't locate them because as you pointed out, their brass catchers, possibly homemade, could have malfunctioned with the force. A deep search by LE revealed them later.


FORCE SCIENCE INSTITUTE
Ejected Shell Casings Can’t Reliably Tell Much About a Shooter’s Location | Force Science Institute

"...The single greatest influence on where spent shell casings land when ejected from a semiautomatic handgun is how the pistol is physically manipulated by the shooter, not any rigid, intrinsic mechanical factor.

Indeed, the FSRC’s benchmark findings show that the ejection spread can vary up to 24 feet with the same gun, fired by the same shooter, depending on how the weapon is gripped and moved, according to the Center’s executive director, Dr. Bill Lewinski of Minnesota State University-Mankato..."

...My 2 Cents....

 

[Loomis124]

I just reported to Mods on your comment, pretty sure it's Sillybilly who updates the threads. Thanks for the reminder, Niner!

ETA: As for caliber of weapons and different shell casings. the preliminary AR's stated that two different caliber guns were used to shoot CR1 and GR. GR was shot with a larger caliber weapon. RIP

Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range

I just reported to Mods on your comment, pretty sure it's Sillybilly who updates the threads. Thanks for the reminder, Niner!

ETA: As for caliber of weapons and different shell casings. the preliminary AR's stated that two different caliber guns were used to shoot CR1 and GR. GR was shot with a larger caliber weapon. RIP

Rhodens shot in head at point-blank range

It's articles like this that I can hardly read....

 

[Puzzles8]

That's very important information you just brought up. I am surprised! All this time I thought they were so careful with their brass catchers and that they would count every shell casing, so I am now surprised to find out that they actually left 2 behind--2 different ones!

Great find CM!

So this makes a big difference with the ballistic matching because now they have more than just the maglite flashlite silencer from the well search--now they can compare the maglite to the bullet casings as well.

If any of the Rhodens were able to fight back with their own guns, there would be casings.
Doubt the Rhodens had any need to put brass catchers on any of their guns...
Just a thought.

 

[Loomis124]

In no jurisdiction would it be legal to notarize a document without the signing person present. ... It is impermissible to notarize the document after the person has signed. The entire point of having a notary is so that the notary can attest that the person who is alleged to have signed, actually did sign the document.

https://www.quora.com › Is-it-legal-...
Is it legal to notarize a document without the person present or ...

 

[Loomis124]

Yes I think I would have been a little worried myself if I were her and refused to sign

Why? Like they were going to kill her, too? Highly doubt that. IMO, Rita should have stood up against Angela and her evil ways for once in her life. If you aid killers, you should go down, too. JMO

The one thing all these people lacked was discipline. Never had to pay for a crime they did: Billy: "Is there a fine I can pay?" Bah Humbug, spoiled rotten brat.

But...I still think Junk has to come clean about these nasty, nasty people and why they got by with so much.

Also, I sure miss Sheriff Charlie Reader. It must hurt to find out who his real friends are, and are not. What a bummer.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't have the link at hand, but he was also mentioned by AC as one who the Wagners vowed to seek revenge on in their secret meetings. I'm sure glad they have a confidential information resource! JMO

Wagner Family Arraigned & Gag Order issued in Pike County Massacre

Ohio Asst. Attorney General Angela Canepa made the state’s position clear to Judge Deering that George Wagner, “[is]a dangerous man who plotted revenge against Attorney General Mike DeWine, the lead BCI agent on the case and Sheriff Charles Reader if he and his family were charged in the murders”. Canepa went on to say that the Wagners also “planned their escape” should one or more of them get caught and others remained free.

“There have been multiple conversations where those sorts of threats have been made,” Canepa said. “And I would say that specifically George Wagner was the most vocal in making those threats.”
______________________________________________________________
Some think GW4 is the one most likely to flip because he has "less skin in the game."
But according to Canepa he sounds the most vicious I think.

 

[Loomis124]

In Ohio you have to have a title to a car that is sold for scrap. The title gets sent in and is nullified because the car no longer exists.
All the VINs of cars at CRsr's place were checked and none reported as stolen. If you buy used body parts to fix a wrecked car you have to have receipts showing you bought them from a business that can sell them legally. It takes a special permit from the State of Ohio to be allowed to sell auto parts. They have gotten very picky about used car parts to keep chop shops from being easy money. If you are found with illegally purchased parts on your car, they get confiscated and crushed. They whole car could possibly get crushed with enough illegal parts on it.
The State doesn't sell abandoned cars unless the owner can not be found. They send the owner a notice that their car is impounded and they have X number of days to pay storage fees and get it back.

Hey Dudly, regarding the scrap metal...

Caylee Advocate posted in the previous page or two that possibly the Ws went to Coshocton for boots because they had a delivery there (it's 7 hours from Peebles). Knowing she has inside information, I took a stab at it and posted "scrap metals" because when I googled the place, that was something that came up. It could have been heroin or anything. I did Google April 2016 news for that county. Interesting results. Also guessed scrap metals because RN's son was recently charged for that. But my real guess is "an undercurrent of drugs." All just my opinion.

 

[Loomis124]

Wagner Family Arraigned & Gag Order issued in Pike County Massacre

Ohio Asst. Attorney General Angela Canepa made the state’s position clear to Judge Deering that George Wagner, “[is]a dangerous man who plotted revenge against Attorney General Mike DeWine, the lead BCI agent on the case and Sheriff Charles Reader if he and his family were charged in the murders”. Canepa went on to say that the Wagners also “planned their escape” should one or more of them get caught and others remained free.

“There have been multiple conversations where those sorts of threats have been made,” Canepa said. “And I would say that specifically George Wagner was the most vocal in making those threats.”
______________________________________________________________
Some think GW4 is the one most likely to flip because he has "less skin in the game."
But according to Canepa he sounds the most vicious I think.

I totally agree.