OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #56

[Cool Cats]

I just don't know anymore. These hearings just seem to bog down more and more with time, now months between them. It just gets so frustrating that everything seems to be being kept in secret. I have to agree with Johnny (until I see differently)...Will these all be discussed in chambers, then we, the public, given hours to watch the camera on the door, then when they do finally come out, it'll be over in 10 minutes? I sure hope not.

When the first trial starts things will explode. Expect things to get crazy. Only way this won't happen X's 4 is if any of them do pleas for life WOP. This will happen by sometime in 2021. Mark my words. Justice will happen.
This thread matters. Posting about this case where 8 were killed in cold blood matters. Keep posting. Keep the memories going. Worth it. Take care.
Justice

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

Where can I find the schedule of the hearings yet to come?

 

[Cool Cats]

Where can I find the schedule of the hearings yet to come?

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/eservices/home.page.2

Type in Jake as Edward Wagner

Type in the 2 Georges as George Wagner

Angie type in as Angela Wagner

 

[Niner]

Where can I find the schedule of the hearings yet to come?

GW4 - Status & Bond Review hearing on 8/31 @ 1:30pm
GW3 - Evidentiary hearing on 9/8/20 @ 1:30pm
Jake - Pretrial & Motions hearing on 9/21/20 @ 9am
Angela - last hearing was on 6/24/20 - no updates

 

[Cool Cats]

If Angela's attorney said that, it's quite ironic. Defense attorneys have been dragging the case out as long as possible, even going so far as to ask the state to organize all the evidence for them and type up transcriptions of the recorded evidence.

He said it:

“I think we had all hoped, and we still hope, to try these cases sometime in the fall. Because they have been – they’re getting long in the tooth. They’re getting old," Krapenc said.

Billy's attorney said the State spared no expense in investigating the Wagners including going to several States so I do not understand why the Pike County Court is dragging it's feet and still has not hired a Discovery Coordinator to organize the evidence. Just organize it already so the Defense can't keep complaining about it. It was brought up yet again at Billy's last hearing.

At Billy's last hearing Canepa said this:

"Special Prosecuting Attorney Canepa informed the Court at the pre-trial hearing that a meeting had been held between counsel for the State of Ohio and counsel for the Defendant on March 13, 2020, at the offices of the Ohio BCI&I in order to peruse the items of discovery and for counsel for the State of Ohio to provide some assistance to the Defendant's attorneys in organizing the items of discovery provided."

Then in April 2020 Billy's attorney Collins said:

"The Wagner family attorneys have yet to receive the government's discovery document."

The Defense is not asking the Prosecution to type up the audio special for them.
The Prosecution has to type up transcription for the audio evidence because juries (and judges) always listen to audio using transcripts in front of them. The Defense just needs the copies that the Prosecution has.

Pike County Massacre, 4 years later: Coronavirus could delay trials further

USE OF TRANSCRIPTS OF AUDIO RECORDINGS AT TRIAL TO AID JURY OR JUDGE IN UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS SAID IN THE RECORDING

"Replaying audio recording during deliberation. If the jury requests to listen to an audio recording during deliberations, the jury should be returned to the courtroom furnished with the transcript of that recording to use while the recording is replayed."

 

[Betty P]

He said it:

“I think we had all hoped, and we still hope, to try these cases sometime in the fall. Because they have been – they’re getting long in the tooth. They’re getting old," Krapenc said.

Billy's attorney said the State spared no expense in investigating the Wagners including going to several States so I do not understand why the Pike County Court is dragging it's feet and still has not hired a Discovery Coordinator to organize the evidence. Just organize it already so the Defense can't keep complaining about it. It was brought up yet again at Billy's last hearing.

At Billy's last hearing Canepa said this:

"Special Prosecuting Attorney Canepa informed the Court at the pre-trial hearing that a meeting had been held between counsel for the State of Ohio and counsel for the Defendant on March 13, 2020, at the offices of the Ohio BCI&I in order to peruse the items of discovery and for counsel for the State of Ohio to provide some assistance to the Defendant's attorneys in organizing the items of discovery provided."

Then in April 2020 Billy's attorney Collins said:

"The Wagner family attorneys have yet to receive the government's discovery document."

The Defense is not asking the Prosecution to type up the audio special for them.
The Prosecution has to type up transcription for the audio evidence because juries (and judges) always listen to audio using transcripts in front of them. The Defense just needs the copies that the Prosecution has.

Pike County Massacre, 4 years later: Coronavirus could delay trials further

USE OF TRANSCRIPTS OF AUDIO RECORDINGS AT TRIAL TO AID JURY OR JUDGE IN UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS SAID IN THE RECORDING

"Replaying audio recording during deliberation. If the jury requests to listen to an audio recording during deliberations, the jury should be returned to the courtroom furnished with the transcript of that recording to use while the recording is replayed."

WRT Billy's defense complaining about government's discovery document - which discovery document are they referring to? There are several terabytes of discovery documents that have been turned over.

As for prosecution typing up audio transcripts, I'm still not sure what defense is complaining about. If they want typed copies they should type them up themselves. Maybe some of the Wagner family and friends could volunteer to help out if they're short of help.

If Billy's defense attorneys haven't listened closely to that audio evidence (which they received months, if not a year ago) to determine what it contains, they're not doing their job. Their job is to expertly defend their client, they shouldn't rely on the prosecution to do that for them.

I've reviewed the most recent motions filed by Billy's attorneys and their is no mention of needing to hire a discovery evidence coordinator. Pretty sure that was done and meetings held during COVID 19 lockdown.

Some delays WRT evidence most recently are attributed to new evidence gathered as a result of RN's plea agreement and the subsequent search of FW's property late last year.

Personally, I think the 3 prosecuting attorneys are doing an exemplary job working against 4 defense teams with a total of 8 to 10 defense attorneys.

The delays by defense are pretty obvious in how they stagger the timing of motions made, some delaying them as late as possible in order to burn up time and further delay the process.

Perhaps they're trying to force the court to burn through money that the state legislature allotted for trying the Rhoden Massacre case, hoping it will cause problems for the state, forcing attorneys to take no pay or drop out of the case. Taking advantage of state budget problems due to the COVID 19 crisis. What disgusting people they are.

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't think the defense is playing games with money. Attorneys are paid for the time they are working on the case it's self, not for delays. And Junk gets a full time salary from Pike County that doesn't change just because of delays.

For example, say Canepa spends 20 hours writing a Motion and getting ready to argue it in court so she bills for those 20 hours. She is not going to get more money just because the Motion Hearing is delayed. She would get paid if she has to go back and revise the Motion.

 

[Loomis124]

WRT Billy's defense complaining about government's discovery document - which discovery document are they referring to? There are several terabytes of discovery documents that have been turned over.

As for prosecution typing up audio transcripts, I'm still not sure what defense is complaining about. If they want typed copies they should type them up themselves. Maybe some of the Wagner family and friends could volunteer to help out if they're short of help.

If Billy's defense attorneys haven't listened closely to that audio evidence (which they received months, if not a year ago) to determine what it contains, they're not doing their job. Their job is to expertly defend their client, they shouldn't rely on the prosecution to do that for them.

I've reviewed the most recent motions filed by Billy's attorneys and their is no mention of needing to hire a discovery evidence coordinator. Pretty sure that was done and meetings held during COVID 19 lockdown.

Some delays WRT evidence most recently are attributed to new evidence gathered as a result of RN's plea agreement and the subsequent search of FW's property late last year.

Personally, I think the 3 prosecuting attorneys are doing an exemplary job working against 4 defense teams with a total of 8 to 10 defense attorneys.

The delays by defense are pretty obvious in how they stagger the timing of motions made, some delaying them as late as possible in order to burn up time and further delay the process.

Perhaps they're trying to force the court to burn through money that the state legislature allotted for trying the Rhoden Massacre case, hoping it will cause problems for the state, forcing attorneys to take no pay or drop out of the case. Taking advantage of state budget problems due to the COVID 19 crisis. What disgusting people they are.

Go Betty!! I totally agree!

I will have to say though: I sure wouldn't want whoever penned/translated Billy's memo requesting bond, to translate anything else. IMO, that document was a joke.

IMO the Discovery Coordinator idea is no longer being discussed. IIRC, Krapenc keeps requesting a "searchable database" for Discovery documents. (At last hearing.) JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Go Betty!! I totally agree!

I will have to say though: I sure wouldn't want whoever penned/translated Billy's memo requesting bond, to translate anything else. IMO, that document was a joke.

IMO the Discovery Coordinator idea is no longer being discussed. IIRC, Krapenc keeps requesting a "searchable database" for Discovery documents. (At last hearing.) JMO

Then perhaps the State should acquiesce and put up a searchable database thus helping to speed things along, avoiding these constant complaints about disorganized and missing evidence from the Defense. In 2 months it will have been 2 years since arrests, evidence should organized and squared away by now with the exception of any new evidence obtained since arrests. (All 2 Cents Only)

This way Prosecutors can say to the Judge:

"We have provided the Defense with all the evidence in an organized data base, we have nothing further for them, now the Defense is just wasting the Court's time with their complaints about the evidence."

 

[Loomis124]

Then perhaps the State should acquiesce and put up a searchable database thus helping to speed things along, avoiding these constant complaints about disorganized and missing evidence from the Defense. In 2 months it will have been 2 years since arrests, evidence should organized and squared away by now with the exception of any new evidence obtained since arrests. (All 2 Cents Only)

This way Prosecutors can say to the Judge:

"We have provided the Defense with all the evidence in an organized data base, we have nothing further for them, now the Defense is just wasting the Court's time with their complaints about the evidence."

Disagree. Defense needs to do some work here, too, IMO. Wonder why only Billy's attorneys have a problem with the Discovery??? Could it be "they" are the problem? I don't hear the other six attorneys whining about Discovery, and IIRC, these are the only ones that complain about "losing" Discovery documents.

IMO, Defense will NEVER be satisfied with anything. The more they can do to muddy the waters, taint the Jury pool, bow down to FCW and her "orders" to free her son, the longer he stays in local jail and avoids REAL prison.

CC, I know you've kept up with Discovery. In your opinion, what is this defense missing? I sincerely would like your opinion, please. Thanks!

And let me clarify...Billy's attorneys are Collins and Hayes...earlier I said Krapenc in ERROR. I apologize for any confusion.

 

[Loomis124]

When the first trial starts things will explode. Expect things to get crazy. Only way this won't happen X's 4 is if any of them do pleas for life WOP. This will happen by sometime in 2021. Mark my words. Justice will happen.
This thread matters. Posting about this case where 8 were killed in cold blood matters. Keep posting. Keep the memories going. Worth it. Take care.
Justice

I was replying only in regard to the August 31 hearing.

 

[Loomis124]

I don't think the defense is playing games with money. Attorneys are paid for the time they are working on the case it's self, not for delays. And Junk gets a full time salary from Pike County that doesn't change just because of delays.

For example, say Canepa spends 20 hours writing a Motion and getting ready to argue it in court so she bills for those 20 hours. She is not going to get more money just because the Motion Hearing is delayed. She would get paid if she has to go back and revise the Motion.

I think the Defense is trying to keep their defendants in local jails and out of prison for as long as possible because they know that's the best they can do for them, considering the State's appalling, capacious, condemning, never-ending evidence. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

Can hardly wait until Monday, but bet we won't see much. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

@Cool Cats, I really would appreciate your thoughts as to what Discovery Billy's attorneys think they are missing, please. TIA

 

[Cool Cats]

Disagree. Defense needs to do some work here, too, IMO. Wonder why only Billy's attorneys have a problem with the Discovery??? Could it be "they" are the problem? I don't hear the other six attorneys whining about Discovery, and IIRC, these are the only ones that complain about "losing" Discovery documents.

IMO, Defense will NEVER be satisfied with anything. The more they can do to muddy the waters, taint the Jury pool, bow down to FCW and her "orders" to free her son, the longer he stays in local jail and avoids REAL prison.

CC, I know you've kept up with Discovery. In your opinion, what is this defense missing? I sincerely would like your opinion, please. Thanks!

And let me clarify...Billy's attorneys are Collins and Hayes...earlier I said Krapenc in ERROR. I apologize for any confusion.

I sometimes lump everyone together, thanks for clarifying that it looks to you like it's Billy's attorneys who are the ones making waves over the Discovery.

Hummm......What do Billy's attorneys think they are missing?

In March 2020
The Prosecution met with the Defense at BCI to help them organize the Discovery they were given. Despite this help it is not enough and now the Defense wants the State to pay for a searchable data base to yet again organize the Evidence. The Defense offers to research this option themselves, including cost, then they said they would report their findings back to the court.

The Defense then gives Prosecutors a 10-terabyte external hard drive and they want the Prosecution to download everything they have from their master hard drive.

In April 2020
Billy's Defense tells the MSM that they and the other Wagner attorneys are missing a Discovery Document (of some sort not made clear).

In June 2020
It becomes apparent that the Defense never did their promised research into getting a searchable data base because Judge Deering has to ask them again to do it plus ask the Prosecution to help them.

The Prosecution tells the Defense they will give them all the downloaded evidence from their master hard drive which includes evidence from the Attorney General's office by August 21, 2020. The Defense wants all of this put on their 10-terabyte external hard drive which they sprung on the Prosecution in March 2020, 17 months after arrests.

On top of all this the Prosecution sent the Defense the State's Supplemental Discovery Evidence that the Prosecution filed back on January 21st, 2020.

Now the Defense claims they can't find this Discovery Evidence, from back in January, so Canepa tells them she will re-supply them with this Discovery they claim they can't find.

I think this about covers it.

Just paraphrasing the Journal Entries for Billy Wagner with my 2 cents thrown in. See Court Docket for complete Journal Entries.

 

[Dudly]

I sometimes lump everyone together, thanks for clarifying that it looks to you like it's Billy's attorneys who are the ones making waves over the Discovery.

Hummm......What do Billy's attorneys think they are missing?

In March 2020
The Prosecution met with the Defense at BCI to help them organize the Discovery they were given. Despite this help it is not enough and now the Defense wants the State to pay for a searchable data base to yet again organize the Evidence. The Defense offers to research this option themselves, including cost, then they said they would report their findings back to the court.

The Defense then gives Prosecutors a 10-terabyte external hard drive and they want the Prosecution to download everything they have from their master hard drive.

In April 2020
Billy's Defense tells the MSM that they and the other Wagner attorneys are missing a Discovery Document (of some sort not made clear).

In June 2020
It becomes apparent that the Defense never did their promised research into getting a searchable data base because Judge Deering has to ask them again to do it plus ask the Prosecution to help them.

The Prosecution tells the Defense they will give them all the downloaded evidence from their master hard drive which includes evidence from the Attorney General's office by August 21, 2020. The Defense wants all of this put on their 10-terabyte external hard drive which they sprung on the Prosecution in March 2020, 17 months after arrests.

On top of all this the Prosecution sent the Defense the State's Supplemental Discovery Evidence that the Prosecution filed back on January 21st, 2020.

Now the Defense claims they can't find this Discovery Evidence, from back in January, so Canepa tells them she will re-supply them with this Discovery they claim they can't find.

I think this about covers it.

Just paraphrasing the Journal Entries for Billy Wagner with my 2 cents thrown in. See Court Docket for complete Journal Entries.

Didn’t Defense claim that not everyone got the same info when it was just a larger hard drive and not as full? This was discussed in a hearing.

 

[Betty P]

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/eservices/home.page.2

Type in Jake as Edward Wagner

Type in the 2 Georges as George Wagner

Angie type in as Angela Wagner

The link is also in the Case Overview that I try to post in the first page or so of each thread. There are a few other helpful links there, too.

 

[Betty P]

I sometimes lump everyone together, thanks for clarifying that it looks to you like it's Billy's attorneys who are the ones making waves over the Discovery.

Hummm......What do Billy's attorneys think they are missing?

In March 2020
The Prosecution met with the Defense at BCI to help them organize the Discovery they were given. Despite this help it is not enough and now the Defense wants the State to pay for a searchable data base to yet again organize the Evidence. The Defense offers to research this option themselves, including cost, then they said they would report their findings back to the court.

The Defense then gives Prosecutors a 10-terabyte external hard drive and they want the Prosecution to download everything they have from their master hard drive.

In April 2020
Billy's Defense tells the MSM that they and the other Wagner attorneys are missing a Discovery Document (of some sort not made clear).

In June 2020
It becomes apparent that the Defense never did their promised research into getting a searchable data base because Judge Deering has to ask them again to do it plus ask the Prosecution to help them.

The Prosecution tells the Defense they will give them all the downloaded evidence from their master hard drive which includes evidence from the Attorney General's office by August 21, 2020. The Defense wants all of this put on their 10-terabyte external hard drive which they sprung on the Prosecution in March 2020, 17 months after arrests.

On top of all this the Prosecution sent the Defense the State's Supplemental Discovery Evidence that the Prosecution filed back on January 21st, 2020.

Now the Defense claims they can't find this Discovery Evidence, from back in January, so Canepa tells them she will re-supply them with this Discovery they claim they can't find.

I think this about covers it.

Just paraphrasing the Journal Entries for Billy Wagner with my 2 cents thrown in. See Court Docket for complete Journal Entries.

Yes, thanks for your opinion, but we need to see how this plays out and find out all the facts. All I'm seeing is a bunch of delaying tactics in cases where the state has gone out of their way to provide all evidence necessary.

I do agree, more of this needs to be in the public domain. I suspect part of the defense strategy is to argue and manipulate this process behind closed doors in order to create confusion and doubt in the public domain. Time for the defense drama to end and for the defense attorneys to put on their big boy pants and do their job.

 

[Cool Cats]

Didn’t Defense claim that not everyone got the same info when it was just a larger hard drive and not as full? This was discussed in a hearing.

I don't know I'm feeling "dizzy" from trying to sort out the defense's delaying tactics that I now see has happened. Wow. Guess you were right when you said before they did things to delay. I'm taking a break from this particular subject. Will see if GW4 has his hearing tomorrow.

 

[Dudly]

I don't know I'm feeling "dizzy" from trying to sort out the defense's delaying tactics that I now see has happened. Wow. Guess you were right when you said before they did things to delay. I'm taking a break from this particular subject. Will see if GW4 has his hearing tomorrow.

To me it is almost like the Defense playing dumb at times. That hard drive thing was ridiculous. You look at the number of files, not how much space it takes on a drive. No one noticed it was a larger hard drive? I hope they aren’t letting things slide so there can be a claim of insufficient representation for a mistrial or appeal. Their work don’t seem to be what their reputation shows it should be. My opinion only.