OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58

[Ann99]

Total assumption on my part, but I personally believe the recovered burnt VCR was part of CR's surveillance system.

I have the same belief.
So, can someone remind me, where was that burnt up VCR found?
Was it found on Wagner property?
If so, very hard to explain away.

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM

I must have missed something. I only read and read the forums here on WS. I don't read anything on other sites and don't listen to any podcasts.

I don't recall anyone specific being mentioned here on WS, but my memories aren't what they used to be. Who is the person you're referring to as "rumored to be"?

Sister of Rhoden family massacre victims upset at pace of legal proceedings

Identifying herself as the sister of victims Kenneth and Chris Rhoden, the woman spoke out in the courthouse parking lot, saying that she's frustrated with how slowly the wheels of justice are turning.

"I want to know what’s taking so long to go to trial. I want justice for my family,” said the sister and aunt of the Rhoden victims.

The woman didn't want to go on camera but said she's convinced defense attorneys are dragging their feet, adding "let's look at the evidence and take it to trial."

 

[Cool Cats]

I have the same belief.
So, can someone remind me, where was that burnt up VCR found?
Was it found on Wagner property?
If so, very hard to explain away.

Probably found in their searches of the Wagner properties on Peterson Rd.

It also says this in the evidence:

Electronic Items - 52 Havener (where they lived when they came back from AK, was Angie's dad's house) and Flying W Farms (29 photos)

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/732prfjygw6tp04l/images/5-88e89a5ae9.jpg

 

[Cool Cats]

Special prosecutor Angie Canepa said she would like to have a trial date set for Jake Wagner when both sides meet again on Oct. 29. Canepa made it clear his case is the first case the state wants to take to trial.

From linked article above

 

[Niner]

@Cool Cats - do you know "why" there aren't any "new" court dates for AW, GW3 & GW4? TIA!

Is that your cat as your avatar? He's cute!

 

[LeftEyed]

Another personal belief of mine, I think JW used the .22 pistol w/ suppressor, GW4 used the SKS .30 suppressed and GW3 used the 40 cal. Glock, suppressed.

 

[Cool Cats]

@Cool Cats - do you know "why" there aren't any "new" court dates for AW, GW3 & GW4? TIA!

Is that your cat as your avatar? He's cute!

I like how her face is 2 different colors, it's COOL.
She's not one of my brood of rescues but all my cats are Cool Cats!

For Angela it looks like her next hearing will be scheduled when this gets done:

"...then the Defendant shall serve and file all substantive pre-trial motions on or before October 15, 2020. These substantive pre-trial motions will then be scheduled for hearing.

For Billy it looks like his next hearing will be scheduled when this gets done but the prosecution filed for more time to do it:

"...it is hereby ORDERED that the State of Ohio shall specify to counsel for the Defendant any and all "other acts" evidence that the State of Ohio intends to use at trial on or before September 8, 2020.

09/04/2020 STATE'S MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME FOR FILING OF NOTICE

09/16/2020 DEFENDANT'S REPLY TO STATE'S MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME AND MOTION TO COMPEL DISCOVERY FILED.

For GW4 it looks like his next hearing will be scheduled when he gets a new attorney... His case is stalled without having 2 certified death penalty attorneys on board, that's the law, each Wagner must have 2 DP certified attorneys. This might be why his trial has been pushed back to the end of 2021 or even into 2022.

09/17/2020 MOTION TO WITHDRAW AS COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT FILED Attorney: KNIGHT, CHARLES H

Just my opinion 9'er ...

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think the doors were simply unlocked, so getting in could be done quietly.And with living arrangements in these homes, I don't believe noises would necessarily be worrisome to those inside.
Unlocked at CR's, but we know he was up. Then the killers stayed there until GR came home, when they caught him by surprise.
I think they took more time in CR's, then headed to FR's later. Once they got to FR's place, the killings went fast. In my opinion, this door was unlocked too. They simply crept in, killed FR first and HG woke up, which is why she took so many shots.
At DR's, I think that since they were smokers it wouldn't be a red flag to hear the door opening, someone may be having a late night smoke. I think HR caught the first shots, then DR, and I think DR woke up due to the amount of shots and the chin execution. I think CR2 heard this and was alert when he was killed, which is why he's found between bed and wall.
KR's was unlocked, I can't be convinced he didn't awaken the second his door opened. He may have even thought DS could be coming in.

I think Kenny took Gary to Chris's place that night and saw the Wagner's vehicle parked near his brothers house. Whoever was in that vehicle (Angie or George) recognized Kenny and knew that Kenny would know their vehicle or at least be able to describe it and may have even noted the tag number ergo Kenny had to be killed. This is based on the fact of lack of hatred and hostility with Kenny being killed with only one shot. I think it is going to come out in the trial.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Oh he's more than frazzled, he is throwing his brother under the bus.
His attorney practically came out and said Jake was guilty not George.
GW4 and his attorney probably talk about how Jake planned it right under George's nose - poor George, getting roped in after the fact.

Opinion Only.

I always said George would flip because he had the most to lose and the least to gain in it all.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Another personal belief of mine, I think JW used the .22 pistol w/ suppressor, GW4 used the SKS .30 suppressed and GW3 used the 40 cal. Glock, suppressed.

@LeftEyed

I think you are pretty spot-on about the guns they each used.

Here is what we know about Jake and George's guns according to BCI Lead Investigator Special Agent Scheiderer:

GW4:

1.) Is a Glock man.
2.) His uncle (CN) helped him buy a Glock off Facebook by meeting the seller on the side of a Hwy.
3.) BCI has recordings of GW4 saying that he bought a night scope for his SKS 762.
4.) Records indicate a night scope was purchased from Bass Pro Shop using Jake's rewards card.
5.) On Jake's phone there is a gun list stating that GW4 owns a SKS 762.

Jake:

1.) On Jake's phone there is a gun list stating that Jake owns a Colt 1911.22.
2.) BCI did a forensic audit on Jake's phone and they discovered a hand holding a Colt Walker 1911.22 pistol which is likely the 1911.22 photo in the Discovery Evidence.
3.) BCI got a palm print from the photo and compared it to Jake's palm print they took when Jake was arrested and they matched so they know Jake was actually holding the 1911.22 pistol.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

He and his brother are nearly opposites in court as far as demeanor goes. GWIV is not happy about being in court over this. Whether he is upset about getting dragged into his brother’s mess, over getting caught, or whatever, it is hard to say. My opinion only.

They do have him on tape telling Jake he was always getting them into trouble over some girl. Sounds like even before they were arrested George was a little fed up with his younger brothers antics. IMO George is the weakest link and will turn states evidence against the rest of them, especially Jake. I also expect George to allege he only knew about it after the fact to get an accessory charge instead of a DP charge since all the statements made on tape were after the murders and could be said by someone who found out after the fact. Right now, with what I have heard, and granted we only have a tiny bit of evidence out right now, there is little to tie George to the murders and much to tie him to accessory after the fact and obstruction. My belief is bolstered by the fact that George is the only one of the 4 that Fred made an attempt to speak to at the pretrial hearings. She was there at Billy's but if you go back to the first videos of George's you will see her trying to get him to look at her and even walked up to speak to his attorney. It's interesting that George displayed some hostility toward her by not meeting her eye (he turned away from her) which causes me to be on the fence about how much Fred knew and when she knew it. I do not believe Rita knew about it beforehand but learned of it afterwards and help to cover it up.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I always said George would flip because he had the most to lose and the least to gain in it all.

JMO

Yes! I remember you saying that a few times.

What I think could happen is that GW4 admits that Jake planned and carried out the crimes but not himself because his attorney was shifting blame to Jake and Angela at the Bond Hearing.

Also, Canepa wants to try Jake first and if he is found guilty then that is more reason for GW4 to admit his family was involved but not himself.

Wouldn't surprise me if GW4's trial defense is that Jake (maybe some of the others) did it but not himself.

2 Cents Only

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Slightly O/T, but if it's too much I'm sure it will go POOF It concerns DeWine.

Ohio lawmaker files complaint, wants DeWine charged with terrorism over pandemic orders | 10tv.com

 

[Antimony]

How do you get a palm print from a photo from facebook?
OH, It is still Walther 1911.22. Not Colt Walker.
A Walker Colt is a .44 caliber cap-and -ball revolver from pre-civil war.

 

[Antimony]

Colt Walker - Wikipedia

 

[Tiff23fr]

They do have him on tape telling Jake he was always getting them into trouble over some girl. Sounds like even before they were arrested George was a little fed up with his younger brothers antics. IMO George is the weakest link and will turn states evidence against the rest of them, especially Jake. I also expect George to allege he only knew about it after the fact to get an accessory charge instead of a DP charge since all the statements made on tape were after the murders and could be said by someone who found out after the fact. Right now, with what I have heard, and granted we only have a tiny bit of evidence out right now, there is little to tie George to the murders and much to tie him to accessory after the fact and obstruction. My belief is bolstered by the fact that George is the only one of the 4 that Fred made an attempt to speak to at the pretrial hearings. She was there at Billy's but if you go back to the first videos of George's you will see her trying to get him to look at her and even walked up to speak to his attorney. It's interesting that George displayed some hostility toward her by not meeting her eye (he turned away from her) which causes me to be on the fence about how much Fred knew and when she knew it. I do not believe Rita knew about it beforehand but learned of it afterwards and help to cover it up.

JMO

I agree with George potentially flipping but I also wonder about Billy. I was thinking about the Alaska move:

AC: And did he specifically request she not tell Charlie Gilley this child was his?
AC: And did he at some point also offer for her or ask her to go to Alaska with the family?

RS: Yes

I wonder when Jake asked her this. The line of questioning makes it seem it was after she was pregnant and around conversations of not telling CG. But I wonder who "the family" is that was planning to move.

At this time was Billy still living at Peterson or were Angela and the boys going to go without Billy?
Or
Did something happen with Angela and Billy long before the murders were planned and Angela thought the family move would bring her family back together. Possibly painted it as a fresh start. Which of course couldn't happen without S.

Does anyone know how long Billy had been living separate from Angela? It sounds crazy even thinking it, but getting the family back together could be how George got roped in.

All JMO/questions as I wonder what could have been in this for George to get him on board.

 

[Antimony]

The Walther m1911.22 , In my opinion, was purchased with the murders in mind. I can't imagine what a young man of 25 or so years would buy an M1911.22. It is a lookalike for the Colt Goverment m1911 of .45ACP caliber. ACP stands for Automatic Colt Pistol. A .22 pistol is not what a manley-man would carry to show the guys down at the carry-out how tough and mean you are. You would be laughed out of the place. A .40 Glock, on the other hand, Is a pistol a manley-man would carry. Speaking as a former teenager who had a real Colt .45 auto when 18 years of age. If you want to show off, Bring a man's gun.

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree with George potentially flipping but I also wonder about Billy. I was thinking about the Alaska move:

AC: And did he specifically request she not tell Charlie Gilley this child was his?
AC: And did he at some point also offer for her or ask her to go to Alaska with the family?

RS: Yes

I wonder when Jake asked her this. The line of questioning makes it seem it was after she was pregnant and around conversations of not telling CG. But I wonder who "the family" is that was planning to move.

At this time was Billy still living at Peterson or were Angela and the boys going to go without Billy?
Or
Did something happen with Angela and Billy long before the murders were planned and Angela thought the family move would bring her family back together. Possibly painted it as a fresh start. Which of course couldn't happen without S.

Does anyone know how long Billy had been living separate from Angela? It sounds crazy even thinking it, but getting the family back together could be how George got roped in.

All JMO/questions as I wonder what could have been in this for George to get him on board.

At the time of the murders way back in April 2016, Billy was not living at Peterson Rd. Canepa said.

For alot of reasons I believe Billy lived with Fred. He had been living in his old bedroom helping to take care of his dad at one point, he worked for Fred, he was on disability with little money, and no address has turned up showing he had his own place to live.

The family going to AK was the 4 Wagners. It's well documented they all went to AK together and lived there together.

When they came back from AK in 2018 Angela, Jake and George lived in the South Webster Ohio house Angie inherited from her dad. Canepa said that Angie, Jake and GW4 never lived apart and that Jake and GW4 were raising their children together. Angela Wagner was arrested in Scioto County Ohio at her South Webster home.

It is not clear if Billy ever stayed at the Webster house. When he was arrested he was working for FWF so there again is the good possibility he was living at FWF staying once again in his old bedroom.

Jake wanted to be put on K's birth certificate and keep CG in the dark and he even tried to "bribe" her with offers of child support for K. I have no doubt that he wanted Hanna and K to go to AK with him, a good way to ditch CG plus it would keep Hanna from living with her own mother.

I think it was Angela's idea to get Hanna, S and K to AK, and again, to get far away from CG and even Hanna's own family, isolate her.

Angie wanted it all and when she couldn't have it she started downloading the custody documents in early April 2016 back-dating them to December 2014, the last time Hanna lived with the Wagners.

The Bureau of Criminal Investigation and Identification was at a house in South Webster last summer. It is believed to be connected to at least one suspect who was arrested Tuesday in the Rhoden murder investigation.."

...2 Cents Only...

 

[CIA Team Member]

I think the doors were simply unlocked, so getting in could be done quietly.And with living arrangements in these homes, I don't believe noises would necessarily be worrisome to those inside.
Unlocked at CR's, but we know he was up. Then the killers stayed there until GR came home, when they caught him by surprise.
I think they took more time in CR's, then headed to FR's later. Once they got to FR's place, the killings went fast. In my opinion, this door was unlocked too. They simply crept in, killed FR first and HG woke up, which is why she took so many shots.
At DR's, I think that since they were smokers it wouldn't be a red flag to hear the door opening, someone may be having a late night smoke. I think HR caught the first shots, then DR, and I think DR woke up due to the amount of shots and the chin execution. I think CR2 heard this and was alert when he was killed, which is why he's found between bed and wall.
KR's was unlocked, I can't be convinced he didn't awaken the second his door opened. He may have even thought DS could be coming in.

100% agree on everything you've said right here.

 

[Tiff23fr]

At the time of the murders way back in April 2016, Billy was not living at Peterson Rd. Canepa said.

For alot of reasons I believe Billy lived with Fred. He had been living in his old bedroom helping to take care of his dad at one point, he worked for Fred, he was on disability with little money, and no address has turned up showing he had his own place to live.

The family going to AK was the 4 Wagners. It's well documented they all went to AK together and lived there together.

When they came back from AK in 2018 Angela, Jake and George lived in the South Webster Ohio house Angie inherited from her dad. Canepa said that Angie, Jake and GW4 never lived apart and that Jake and GW4 were raising their children together.

It is not clear if Billy ever stayed at the Webster house. When he was arrested he was working for FWF so there again is the good possibility he was living at FWF staying once again in his old bedroom.

Jake wanted to be put on K's birth certificate and keep CG in the dark and he even tried to "bribe" her with offers of child support for K. I have no doubt that he wanted Hanna and K to go to AK with him, a good way to ditch CG plus it would keep Hanna from living with her own mother.

I think it was Angela's idea to get Hanna, S and K to AK, and again, to get far away from CG.

Angie wanted it all and when she couldn't have it she started downloading the custody documents in early April 2016 back-dating them to December 2014, the last time Hanna lived with the Wagners.

...2 Cents Only...

I recognize all 4 went to Alaska when they finally went.
I was curious back before the murders what the initial plan was. It has been stated by the Wagners, the Pastor in Alaska, and now on record via Jake asking Hanna that they had planned to move for some time.

If all was great with Angela and Billy why were they not living together in OH? Why was this only an option in Alaska? It would be easier to take care of his dad and work for his mom in Ohio.

Even when they came back it seems her and Billy went separate ways again as far as living arrangements.

I don't disagree with what you are saying just not sure I'm clearly stating the curiosity in my mind. Long day..