OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58

[Cool Cats]

If the 4Ws do not file a response to the civil case, do they lose by default?

If they don't respond I have no idea what would happen other than a default judgement but there probably would be some type of special circumstances involved, but I do think the Wagners will respond to the law suit.

Billy's attorney said he was getting Billy the appropriate attorney for his civil suit so it stands to reason that the other 3 Wagners will get attorneys. In that case, their attorneys will help them respond appropriately to the lawsuit which means the attorneys can say that their client is innocent and thus is not liable for damages.

According to his lawsuit Tony also wants to make sure that if the Wagners profit, for instance, by writing a book or get paid for print or crime show interviews, etc...that all the money goes straight to the victim's minor children.

To win his lawsuit against the 4 Wagners all Tony has to do is prove to the Jury that the Wagners are guilty, which is easy to do if they are found guilty by their criminal trial Jury. If they are found not guilty then Tony's attorney can still try to prove their guilt, there is a lower threshold for guilt in civil cases.

What are the Rules of Evidence? - FindLaw

For a guilty verdict in a criminal trial, the prosecution must prove guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt." But for a civil defendant to be found liable, the plaintiff generally need only prove culpability "by a preponderance of the evidence" (a lower threshold).

 

[Fat Old Man]

If they don't respond I have no idea what would happen other than a default judgement but there probably would be some type of special circumstances involved, but I do think the Wagners will respond to the law suit.

Billy's attorney said he was getting Billy the appropriate attorney for his civil suit so it stands to reason that the other 3 Wagners will get attorneys. In that case, their attorneys will help them respond appropriately to the lawsuit which means the attorneys can say that their client is innocent and thus is not liable for damages.

According to his lawsuit Tony also wants to make sure that if the Wagners profit, for instance, by writing a book or get paid for print or crime show interviews, etc...that all the money goes straight to the victim's minor children.

To win his lawsuit against the 4 Wagners all Tony has to do is prove to the Jury that the Wagners are guilty, which is easy to do if they are found guilty by their criminal trial Jury. If they are found not guilty then Tony's attorney can still try to prove their guilt, there is a lower threshold for guilt in civil cases.

What are the Rules of Evidence? - FindLaw

For a guilty verdict in a criminal trial, the prosecution must prove guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt." But for a civil defendant to be found liable, the plaintiff generally need only prove culpability "by a preponderance of the evidence" (a lower threshold).

In civil case, the defendant, can be call to testify. Not like a criminal case, were they do not have to take the stand.
I still, think they need to call, George IV, to the stand against Jake. And then treat him as a hostile witness.

 

[Cool Cats]

In civil case, the defendant, can be call to testify. Not like a criminal case, were they do not have to take the stand.
I still, think they need to call, George IV, to the stand against Jake. And then treat him as a hostile witness.

May the Court Force Me to Testify? - FindLaw

The Wagners are co-conspirators charged with the exact same crimes and could never be forced to testify in each other's trials. The judge would never allow it.

Criminal defendants can never be forced to testify, this is an extension of the protection under the Fifth Amendment that gives you the right to avoid giving self-incriminating evidence.

I don't know if they could testify for the defense if they chose to do so and the defense attorney wanted them to, but then they would be in legal jeopardy of incriminating themselves when the prosecution attorney cross examines them unless they invoked their 5th amendment right.

In my opinion the only way you will ever see a Wagner on the stand is if one of them cops a plea and like RN is compelled to testify as part of that plea.

Expect RN on the stand.

As for FW, she is listed in the indictments as part of the same conspiracy as the Wager 4 and charges could still be brought against her which means she could also incriminate herself, so I don't see the prosecution or the defense calling her as a witness. I imagine her attorney would object and throw a fit if the prosecution subpoenaed her to testify.

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Jake has a motions hearing tomorrow morning at 9am for anyone interested

 

[Dudly]

Jake has a motions hearing tomorrow morning at 9am for anyone interested

I would say “supposed to have” at this point. I would be surprised if it happens...

 

[Cool Cats]

I would say “supposed to have” at this point. I would be surprised if it happens...

It's 3:30pm Monday and I called the Pike County Common Pleas Court and talked to the Court Clerk and she said yes Jake is scheduled to come in tomorrow for his hearing.

As of right now, we will see tomorrow.

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

I would say “supposed to have” at this point. I would be surprised if it happens...

Why would you be surprised that it happens ?

 

[Cool Cats]

Why would you be surprised that it happens ?

I will speak for myself here but I can see why many of us would be surprised. First of all covid postponed everything last spring for 3 months and then BOTH of these court hearings for Jake were cancelled:

10/29/2020 09:00 AM PRE-TRIAL - CANCELLED

12/02/2020 01:30 PM PRE-TRIAL - CANCELLED

It will practically be a miracle with covid going rampant to see Jake in court tomorrow.

The Wagners have now missed 3 Thanksgivings and 3 Christmases. WOW

Seeing S half the time wasn't so bad was it Angela and Jake?

 

[Dudly]

Why would you be surprised that it happens ?

Between Covid and the constant changing of court dates in this case is why.

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

I will speak for myself here but I can see why many of us would be surprised. First of all covid postponed everything last spring for 3 months and then BOTH of these court hearings for Jake were cancelled:

10/29/2020 09:00 AM PRE-TRIAL - CANCELLED

12/02/2020 01:30 PM PRE-TRIAL - CANCELLED

It will practically be a miracle with covid going rampant to see Jake in court tomorrow.

The Wagners have now missed 3 Thanksgivings and 3 Christmases. WOW

Seeing S half the time wasn't so bad was it Angela and Jake?

They’ve been in court since covid I remember seeing them in masks. It’ll happen

 

[Betty P]

I will speak for myself here but I can see why many of us would be surprised. First of all covid postponed everything last spring for 3 months and then BOTH of these court hearings for Jake were cancelled:

10/29/2020 09:00 AM PRE-TRIAL - CANCELLED

12/02/2020 01:30 PM PRE-TRIAL - CANCELLED

It will practically be a miracle with covid going rampant to see Jake in court tomorrow.

The Wagners have now missed 3 Thanksgivings and 3 Christmases. WOW

Seeing S half the time wasn't so bad was it Angela and Jake?

I'm glad S and the other children are being raised by people who love them, instead of people who plotted to murder their parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles.

 

[Betty P]

Between Covid and the constant changing of court dates in this case is why.

Yes, we should keep an eye on local news beginning tomorrow morning. Some of the reporters find out fairly early if a hearing has been rescheduled.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm glad S and the other children are being raised by people who love them, instead of people who plotted to murder their parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles.

I heard she is with MG, thus with her sister and cousin, but can't confirm. At any rate, she is for sure with relatives. Also, GW4's son now goes by a different name, the name his mom wanted in the first place. This I know for a fact. Hu..er

My opinion

 

[Niner]

Yes, I'll be shortening this up a bit.... still on the court site as of 4am ET (11am my time)

Tuesday, Dec. 22nd:
*Pretrial & Motions Hearing (@ 9am ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (38). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos.) and a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) for *Edward Jacob "Jake" Wagner (26/now 28) (former boyfriend of Hanna) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/27/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count of 1st degree conspiracy, 4 counts of 1st degree aggravated burglary, 1 count of 5th degree unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts of 3rd degree evidence tampering, 1 count of 5th degree forgery, 1 count of 5th degree unauthorized use of computer or telecommunications, 1 count of 4th degree interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count of 5th degree obstructing justice, 1 count of 1st degree engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity & 1 count of 4th degree unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. (He’s accused of engaging in sexual contact with Hanna Rhoden when she was 15 & he was 20). Plead not guilty. Held without bond. DA will seek the DP.
Number of shots fired at each victim (Det. Scheiderer: We know the three calibers of firearms that were used to commit these murders. a 22 caliber long rifle, a 40 caliber, and a 30 caliber) & Court hearings from 11/27/18 thru 9/4/20 reference post #933 here:
OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #57
9/21/20 Update: Jake's attorneys question the admissibility of ballistics evidence, shoe print evidence, and statements made by family members. Attorneys also want Andy Wilson removed as a special prosecutor, calling his appointment a conflict since he worked for Gov. Mike DeWine. When DeWine was still state attorney general, the Wagners allegedly plotted against him & members of the investigative team. Motions 52 & 53, Ohio has agreed to provide material requested. Motions 49 & 50 dealt with written communications and admissibility of any non testifying statements. Put together specific objections that defense is objecting to. It's court's understanding that state has now prepared certified that defense has all discoverable material. It has been certified, defense has all of it. Defense moving forward on Motion 51, put agreements in writing so there's no dispute. AC agrees, facts uttered in defendants motion of 51 is an accurate statement of interplay between governor & public defender’s office. Defense oral motion at State’s expense for transcript of bond hearing held for George. Next Motions hearing on 10/29/20. Special prosecutor Angie Canepa said she would like to have a trial date set for Jake Wagner when both sides meet again on Oct. 29. Canepa made it clear his case is the first case the State wants to take to trial.
10/27/20 Update: Defendant's motion for continuance of 10/29 pretrial hearing-granted. Rescheduled from 10/29 to 12/2/20 @ 1:30pm. Rumor is that he has Covid-19.
11/4/20: Journal Entry-- On this 21st day of September, 2020, this cause came on for hearing on certain pre-trial motions filed by the Defendant. For motions 47 thru 53 reference post #780 here:
OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58
11/6/20: Journal entry ordering continuance of pretrial motion hearing-due to a conflict of the court's calendar, on Court's own motion. Pretrial hearing & pretrial motions hearing scheduled for 12/2/20 is continued to Tuesday, 12/22/20 @ 9am. Pretrial motions to be considered are: Defendant's Motion #47 - "Defendant's Motion In Limine Requesting A Pretrial Evidentiary Hearing To Determine the Admissibility Of Ballistics Evidence And Opinions".
Defendant's Motion #48 - "Defendant's Motion In Limine Requesting A Pretrial Evidentiary Hearing To Determine The Admissibility of Shoeprint Evidence And Opinions". (Motion #47 & #48: The parties agreed that Defendant's Motion #47 & #48 would be re-scheduled).
Defendant's Motion #49 - "Defendant's Motion In Limine Requesting A Pretrial Evidentiary Hearing To Determine The Admissibility Of Any Written Communications The State of Ohio Intends To Present In Its Case In Chief".
Defendant's Motion #50 - "Defendant's Motion In Limine Requesting A Pretrial Evidentiary Hearing To Determine The Admissibility Of Any Non-Testifying Co-Defendant Statements The State Intends To Present In Its Case In Chief".
Defendant's Motion #51 - "Notice of An Actual Conflict & Motion To Revoke Andrew Wilson's Appointment As Special Prosecuting Attorney". (Motion #51 under advisement & will issue a decision concerning the same).
Defendant's Motion #52 - "Defendant's Motion For An Order Requiring The Prosecution To Provide A Transcript Of Audio Recordings It Intends To Introduce At Trial".
Granted: Defendant's Motion #53 - "Defendant's Motion For An Order Compelling The State of Ohio To Provide The Defendant With All Forensic Expert Reports And Underlying Data".
Granted: Counsel for the Defendant then made an oral motion to receive transcripts of George Wagner's Bond Hearing.
Both defense and prosecution will get transcripts. The transcript shall not include copies of exhibits introduced at such hearing, which exhibits are being held under seal.
*Angela Jo Wagner (48/now 50) – Last Pretrial hearing on 6/24/20. No update as of 12/22/20.
*George Washington Wagner IV (27/now 29) – Last Bond hearing on 8/31/20. No update as of 12/22/20.
*George Washington Wagner III (47/now 49) – Last Status hearing on 8/6/20. No update as of 12/22/20.
*Rita Jo Newcomb (65/now 66) – Motion hearing on 12/2//19 entered a plea of guilty. Will testify at the trials.
*Fredericka Carol Wagner (76) – 6/26/19: Charges were dismissed without prejudice.

 

[Niner]

for GW4

update on docket:

12/14/2020 REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT WITNESS FILED

12/14/2020 REQUEST FOR COURT-PAID EXPERT WITNESS FILED

12/14/2020 NOTICE OF APPEARANCE OF SUBSTITUTE LEAD COUNSEL FILED
Applies To: PARKER, JOHN PATRICK (Attorney) on behalf of WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON (Defendant)

12/14/2020 REQUEST FOR EX PARTE FUNDING HEARING UNDER OHIO CRIM R. 42(E) FILED
Applies To: PARKER, JOHN PATRICK (Attorney) on behalf of WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON (Defendant)

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...6XgbcfKDb9GYtaRrW--NxWcQOnrMoho0j2NY7GWydRiMA

 

[Dudly]

Looks like it will be streamed here if it happens...
Pike County massacre: Jake Wagner’s lawyers to challenge evidence

 

[Berrybell]

IANAL, but probably so. Not that they have any assets.

If Chosen family wins the civil case does that prohibit the Wag4 from receiving any inheritance from FW?

 

[Cool Cats]

If Chosen family wins the civil case does that prohibit the Wag4 from receiving any inheritance from FW?

Yes....because they won't lose any civil case. Didn't you see the evidence presented from the bond hearing? All 4 are on their way to death row.

 

[Dudly]

Looks like it will be streamed here if it happens...
Pike County massacre: Jake Wagner’s lawyers to challenge evidence

Hearing moved to 11:00 am.

 

[Cool Cats]

Hearing moved to 11:00 am.

Thanks D