OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

[Dudly]

Interesting argument, but I still think Jake was planting false info in those early hours.

He assumed (correctly) that all he had to do was provide similar "tips" to LE to point them towards the Manleys.

How else did LE decide to pounce immediately on BJM and JM? How did they come up with the accusation that someone had "paid" the Manleys to kill their family members? Within an hour or two of discovering the bodies, LE already had a "plot" they were working with to question and accuse the Manleys. It was more than making up a few lies, it sounded much more like a fully formed theory, JMO.

It would also be very characteristic (and accurate) for the Wagners to assume that LE would always take their word against that of the Manleys and Rhodens. Wagners lived "close to the cross", were upstanding citizens and all.

Wagners knew they could become suspects because of the custody fight between Jake and Hanna. LE knew about the fight that had happened in the weeks before, Len talked about it on worldwide live news coverage. Yet, LE immediately jumped on the Manleys and stayed there for the better part of a year.

Wagners had to come up with something that would direct attention to the Manleys. They had been surveilling the victims, they knew BJM was going to water the plants at CR1's every morning. They knew BJM would be the first to find the bodies. All it took was planting digital evidence on the victims' social media accounts and calling in a few tips to LE with a ready-made story.

Charlie Reader mentioned "All the lies they told us". Those lies started that morning and they probably came from Jake, possibly Angela. Later they came from the rest of the family, including FW. The Wagner lies are still being told today.

JMO

Also found it interesting that, when BCI was finally searching the Peterson Rd. farm and the used car business, Leonard Manley still didn't think LE was going to solve the case. He probably knew it was the Wagners, he just didn't think LE would accept that without a lot of evidence.

The following weekend, not much had changed

It would make sense for them to plan a way to be on the offensive rather than defensive. Claiming they thought they knew whom did the crime keeps them from having to be questioned and proving they did not do it. It sounds more believable than being accused and then saying no it was someone else. It is not normal for the criminal to come forward and tell LE someone else was responsible. That would throw LE in a different direction before they had a chance to accuse the Wagners.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The Wagners family have not got to see/talk with each other going on 3 years, I wonder what each one of them are worrying about each day,In my opinion all of the Wagners in jai are living in pure hell, wondering and worrying which Wagner will Rat the others out first, ( I Love It) This little cult has be caught in first degree murder charges, JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Interesting argument, but I still think Jake was planting false info in those early hours.

He assumed (correctly) that all he had to do was provide similar "tips" to LE to point them towards the Manleys.

How else did LE decide to pounce immediately on BJM and JM? How did they come up with the accusation that someone had "paid" the Manleys to kill their family members? Within an hour or two of discovering the bodies, LE already had a "plot" they were working with to question and accuse the Manleys. It was more than making up a few lies, it sounded much more like a fully formed theory, JMO.

It would also be very characteristic (and accurate) for the Wagners to assume that LE would always take their word against that of the Manleys and Rhodens. Wagners lived "close to the cross", were upstanding citizens and all.

Wagners knew they could become suspects because of the custody fight between Jake and Hanna. LE knew about the fight that had happened in the weeks before, Len talked about it on worldwide live news coverage. Yet, LE immediately jumped on the Manleys and stayed there for the better part of a year.

Wagners had to come up with something that would direct attention to the Manleys. They had been surveilling the victims, they knew BJM was going to water the plants at CR1's every morning. They knew BJM would be the first to find the bodies. All it took was planting digital evidence on the victims' social media accounts and calling in a few tips to LE with a ready-made story.

Charlie Reader mentioned "All the lies they told us". Those lies started that morning and they probably came from Jake, possibly Angela. Later they came from the rest of the family, including FW. The Wagner lies are still being told today.

JMO

Also found it interesting that, when BCI was finally searching the Peterson Rd. farm and the used car business, Leonard Manley still didn't think LE was going to solve the case. He probably knew it was the Wagners, he just didn't think LE would accept that without a lot of evidence.

Your quote:

"How else did LE decide to pounce immediately on BJM and JM? How did they come up with the accusation that someone had "paid" the Manleys to kill their family members? "

The Wagners had nothing to do with LE's questions to BJM that morning accusing her of being paid to kill her family. The Wagners were at home in bed or feeding their livestock and working their farm, acting like they knew absolutely nothing about the murders.

When LE confronted BJM about how much was she paid to kill her family, it was done the morning of the murders, while the Wagners pretended to be going about their normal day, pretending to know nothing.

The Wagners are ignorant about crime but not ignorant enough to call LE on the morning of the murders. Didn't happen.

...2 Cents...

 

[Cool Cats]

The Wagners family have not got to see/talk with each other going on 3 years, I wonder what each one of them are worrying about each day,In my opinion all of the Wagners in jai are living in pure hell, wondering and worrying which Wagner will Rat the others out first, ( I Love It) This little cult has be caught in first degree murder charges, JMO

You don't tell Angela Wagner what to do - she tells you what to do.

If she wants to talk to her mom and tell her not to testify against them she is gonna do it. If she wants to order her brother around to set up 3-way phone calls so she can talk to Jake and tell him what to do, she will do it.

And she did, while in jail.

When she goes out on a run for medical treatment outside the jail I expect extra LE right there with her. A true ma Barker. In my mind she is a ma Barker.

...2 Cents...

 

[Cool Cats]

It would make sense for them to plan a way to be on the offensive rather than defensive. Claiming they thought they knew whom did the crime keeps them from having to be questioned and proving they did not do it. It sounds more believable than being accused and then saying no it was someone else. It is not normal for the criminal to come forward and tell LE someone else was responsible. That would throw LE in a different direction before they had a chance to accuse the Wagners.

I think it is pretty obvious who the Wagners wanted LE to blame.

The Cartel or a drug organization.

Why else was Kenny killed? One shot only, not like the others and the money on his legs. Why money on his legs?

Because it points to drugs being involved for the murders. He was greedy or owed them money.

Reader/DeWine were very clear that the Wagners did everything they could to cover their tracks at the crime scenes.

I believe Donald Stone. I do not think he just decided to make it up that, oh by the way, $ was left on Kenny. No I do not believe he made it up.

Who could even think to make that s .. t Up?

...2 Cents...

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Do you Sluthers think that Kenneth was killed out of fear of retaliation????
I really want to know the clear facts about where little Chris was found and if any of the Rhodens where killed in one location and moved to another & Why????

 

[Cool Cats]

Do you Sluthers think that Kenneth was killed out of fear of retaliation????
I really want to know the clear facts about where little Chris was found and if any of the Rhodens where killed in one location and moved to another & Why????

Coronors put where a person is found and the report says Chris JR
was found in his home.

Canepa and Scheiderer said all 3 of them were in bed and that's why it looked like silencers were used because it looked like no one woke up.

They were all killed in their homes not moved. There was a shell casing under K's crib in Hanna's bedroom, a shell casing in between Frankie and HG in bed, and shell casings on Chris's front porch, under his house and I believe also inside the house. The only ones moved were Gary and/or Chris inside the house and left on the floor.

Be impossible to shoot all of them then put them in bed, no way. Kenny was up in a bunk.

It is possible Chris was first shot on his porch.

Canepa said all the witnesses were killed that's why I believe Gary was killed.
I think Chris was killed first and they were marking time in his trailer, they took time to drag bodies. Then Gary came in later.

By dragging a body or 2 bodies and marking time in the trailer, they left footprints.

I think there was a footprint at Dana's, I assume blood was still on their shoes.

Kenny?

1.) He could have been killed because in some fashion he would be a witness against them.

2.) Yes he would want revenge.

3.) Killing him makes it look less like custody is involved, he had nothing to do with custody.

4.) It makes it look more drug related. There were some plants at his house and money left on him and only one shot, not personal, "business like."

...2 Cents...

 

[Hapworth]

Coronors put where a person is found and the report says Chris JR
was found in his home.

Canepa and Scheiderer said all 3 of them were in bed and that's why it looked like silencers were used because it looked like no one woke up.

They were all killed in their homes not moved. There was a shell casing under K's crib in Hanna's bedroom, a shell casing in between Frankie and HG in bed, and shell casings on Chris's front porch, under his house and I believe also inside the house. The only ones moved were Gary and/or Chris inside the house and left on the floor.

Be impossible to shoot all of them then put them in bed, no way. Kenny was up in a bunk.

It is possible Chris was first shot on his porch.

Canepa said all the witnesses were killed that's why I believe Gary was killed.
I think Chris was killed first and they were marking time in his trailer, they took time to drag bodies. Then Gary came in later.

By dragging a body or 2 bodies and marking time in the trailer, they left footprints.

I think there was a footprint at Dana's, I assume blood was still on their shoes.

Kenny?

1.) He could have been killed because in some fashion he would be a witness against them.

2.) Yes he would want revenge.

3.) Killing him makes it look less like custody is involved, he had nothing to do with custody.

4.) It makes it look more drug related. There were some plants at his house and money left on him and only one shot, not personal, "business like."

...2 Cents...

#3

 

[Cool Cats]

#3

Yup!

I only thought of this today. I agree this could be the reason.

3.) Killing him makes it look less like custody is involved, he had nothing to do with custody.

 

[Betty P]

Your quote:

"How else did LE decide to pounce immediately on BJM and JM? How did they come up with the accusation that someone had "paid" the Manleys to kill their family members? "

The Wagners had nothing to do with LE's questions to BJM that morning accusing her of being paid to kill her family. The Wagners were at home in bed or feeding their livestock and working their farm, acting like they knew absolutely nothing about the murders.

When LE confronted BJM about how much was she paid to kill her family, it was done the morning of the murders, while the Wagners pretended to be going about their normal day, pretending to know nothing.

The Wagners are ignorant about crime but not ignorant enough to call LE on the morning of the murders. Didn't happen.

...2 Cents...

I disagree, there's plenty of hints from LE to indicate otherwise. They were tampering with social media accounts in ways to implicate the Manleys from the beginning, according to discovery docs.

We'll find out when the trials begin.

 

[Cool Cats]

I disagree, there's plenty of hints from LE to indicate otherwise. They were tampering with social media accounts in ways to implicate the Manleys from the beginning, according to discovery docs.

We'll find out when the trials begin.

The only social media accounts we know they tampered with was Hanna's and George's EX mother-in-law. They were taking screenshots of messages and BCI found several on their laptop in Montana.

LE zeroed in on the Manleys because they were at the crime scenes and could get into the houses. They had to rule them out. The "how much were you paid to kill your family" was said right away after LE got there so LE didn't need the Wagners to point at the Manleys, LE was already zeroed in on the Manleys from day one.

It's possible Jake sent a text to JM that night to implicate him somehow but overall
Jake was avoiding BCI and didn't want to talk to them so it's hard to believe he would be calling them with tips.

Billy, on the other hand, was actually trying to give them some information and LE refused to get back with him.

When BCI interviewed Jake in May and Billy and Angela that fall, 2016, I wouldn't be surprised that they pointed fingers at JM but they likely also pointed fingers at the grow ops being the reason for the murders. They threw money on Kenny to make it seem he was murdered over money, such as by a drug gang or Cartel...2 Cents...

 

[Betty P]

The only social media accounts we know they tampered with was Hanna's and George's EX mother-in-law. They were taking screenshots of messages and BCI found several on their laptop in Montana.

LE zeroed in on the Manleys because they were at the crime scenes and could get into the houses. They had to rule them out. The "how much were you paid to kill your family" was said right away after LE got there so LE didn't need the Wagners to point at the Manleys, LE was already zeroed in on the Manleys from day one.

It's possible Jake sent a text to JM that night to implicate him somehow but overall
Jake was avoiding BCI and didn't want to talk to them so it's hard to believe he would be calling them with tips.

Billy, on the other hand, was actually trying to give them some information and LE refused to get back with him.

When BCI interviewed Jake in May and Billy and Angela that fall, 2016, I wouldn't be surprised that they pointed fingers at JM but they likely also pointed fingers at the grow ops being the reason for the murders. They threw money on Kenny to make it seem he was murdered over money, such as by a drug gang or Cartel...2 Cents...

No problem its ok to disagree!

 

[Dudly]

The only social media accounts we know they tampered with was Hanna's and George's EX mother-in-law. They were taking screenshots of messages and BCI found several on their laptop in Montana.

LE zeroed in on the Manleys because they were at the crime scenes and could get into the houses. They had to rule them out. The "how much were you paid to kill your family" was said right away after LE got there so LE didn't need the Wagners to point at the Manleys, LE was already zeroed in on the Manleys from day one.

It's possible Jake sent a text to JM that night to implicate him somehow but overall
Jake was avoiding BCI and didn't want to talk to them so it's hard to believe he would be calling them with tips.

Billy, on the other hand, was actually trying to give them some information and LE refused to get back with him.

When BCI interviewed Jake in May and Billy and Angela that fall, 2016, I wouldn't be surprised that they pointed fingers at JM but they likely also pointed fingers at the grow ops being the reason for the murders. They threw money on Kenny to make it seem he was murdered over money, such as by a drug gang or Cartel...2 Cents...

I don’t think anyone has said that any of the Ws were calling LE that morning blaming the Ms. That said if LE called the Ws and asked if they had an idea who might have done it, they could have given hints as to whom it could be without directly naming them.

 

[Puzzles8]

Is this the mark BCI saw that tells them the silencer in the well was fired? I'm 100% sure he said it was fired.

I agree with Johnny that the well silencer isn't necessarily the one used in the murders. It could be the first one they made and they didn't get it right.
They also burned it but still BCI got the serial numbers.

The reason it might not have been used that night comes from George's own mouth, quote:

"If they have the gun they have the silencer."

They didn't take time to disconnect the silencer(s) from the gun(s) and it would make zero sense to do that.....2 Cents......

BBM -
"If they have the gun they have the silencer."
Maybe the first attempt at firing their new creation ended up ruining both the silencer as well as the gun.

Maybe the misfire caused the gun and the homemade silencer to somehow fuse together? So they knew if LE had the gun, they obviously also had the silencer because they couldn't be separated? They tossed it in the well as it was useless to them.

So they had to buy another similar gun (roadside purchase)?

The wadding found during the autopsy's. Maybe the wadding found in the well gun/silencer was the piece they needed to connect the W4 to autopsy evidence?

JMO, MOO, pure speculation only.

 

[Puzzles8]

The only social media accounts we know they tampered with was Hanna's and George's EX mother-in-law. They were taking screenshots of messages and BCI found several on their laptop in Montana.

LE zeroed in on the Manleys because they were at the crime scenes and could get into the houses. They had to rule them out. The "how much were you paid to kill your family" was said right away after LE got there so LE didn't need the Wagners to point at the Manleys, LE was already zeroed in on the Manleys from day one.

It's possible Jake sent a text to JM that night to implicate him somehow but overall
Jake was avoiding BCI and didn't want to talk to them so it's hard to believe he would be calling them with tips.

Billy, on the other hand, was actually trying to give them some information and LE refused to get back with him.

When BCI interviewed Jake in May and Billy and Angela that fall, 2016, I wouldn't be surprised that they pointed fingers at JM but they likely also pointed fingers at the grow ops being the reason for the murders. They threw money on Kenny to make it seem he was murdered over money, such as by a drug gang or Cartel...2 Cents...

BBM -
They were taking screenshots of messages and BCI found several on their laptop in Montana.

The only thing I see related to any Discovery evidence in Montana are three sub-catagory lines. All three start with SW#####, etc. The third SW### entry is marked (unexecuted). Makes me think these were Search Warrants. Maybe LE was expecting three vehicle/trailers in Montana? Only two showed up?

I did not realize BCI searched Angie's laptop in Montana. Can you share any more details?

ETA - Was the search at the border crossing or somewhere else in Montana?

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM -
They were taking screenshots of messages and BCI found several on their laptop in Montana.

The only thing I see related to any Discovery evidence in Montana are three sub-catagory lines. All three start with SW#####, etc. The third SW### entry is marked (unexecuted). Makes me think these were Search Warrants. Maybe LE was expecting three vehicle/trailers in Montana? Only two showed up?

I did not realize BCI searched Angie's laptop in Montana. Can you share any more details?

ETA - Was the search at the border crossing or somewhere else in Montana?

When the Wagners got to the Montana Canadian boarder coming back from AK the boarder patrol notified BCI they were there and I think this is when BCI found them in Montana. Not sure if the Wagners were detained on the boarder for BCI to interview them or if BCI found them farther in State.

I am sure the SW is search warrants because they had to have a search warrant to search the laptop and obtain information from it. I am sure they searched other items and like you say maybe the vehicles.

BCI interviewed all 4 of them in Montana and this is the only time George was interviewed, that we can see in the evidence. In the Bond Hearing it was mentioned that they talked to George in Montana.

On Angie's laptop they found several screenshots of Facebook private messages that the Wagners were spying on. The Wagners broke into George's EX mother-in-law's Facebook and read her private messages. I'm sure they were spying on her to find out things about George's EX wife but also Hanna.

The MIL was telling Hanna to not let what happened to her daughter - signing away custody - happen to her. Hanna said she won't sign any papers they would have to kill her first. Canepa said: " not he would have to kill her they would have to kill her" meaning George was involved.

Then one month later they did kill her.

After Montana they tried to do the fraudulent loans in Missouri so BCI was following them. They then went back to Ohio..

...2 Cents...

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM -
"If they have the gun they have the silencer."
Maybe the first attempt at firing their new creation ended up ruining both the silencer as well as the gun.

Maybe the misfire caused the gun and the homemade silencer to somehow fuse together? So they knew if LE had the gun, they obviously also had the silencer because they couldn't be separated? They tossed it in the well as it was useless to them.

So they had to buy another similar gun (roadside purchase)?

The wadding found during the autopsy's. Maybe the wadding found in the well gun/silencer was the piece they needed to connect the W4 to autopsy evidence?

JMO, MOO, pure speculation only.

They found wadding at the autopsies? I never heard that.

I think they got rid of their guns with the silencers attached to them, there is no reason to take time to disconnect them. Then if BCI had found a gun it would still have the silencer attached, that is why George thought if they have the gun they have the silencer. Or they did take time to detach the silencers but hid them with the guns so if BCI found the gun they got the silencer too.

In the well was a maglite flashlight, no mention of a gun, that had been converted into a silencer that they said was shot at least once because it had a distinct unique firing pin impression inside it that only comes from the German made Glock. They think a 40 Glock was used that night and George bought one and is a Glock man.

That ballistic finding gave them the last piece of evidence they needed. I think there would be firing pin impressions on the casings and if that's true then they match the impression inside the silencer, very damning evidence.

They had burned the silencer, I think it was slightly melted, but not enough to destroy the serial number which showed it was made in January 2016. This is significant because the Wagners can't say that previous owners from long ago threw it in the well. The Wagners lived there in January 2016.

...2 Cents..

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Coronors put where a person is found and the report says Chris JR
was found in his home.

Canepa and Scheiderer said all 3 of them were in bed and that's why it looked like silencers were used because it looked like no one woke up.

They were all killed in their homes not moved. There was a shell casing under K's crib in Hanna's bedroom, a shell casing in between Frankie and HG in bed, and shell casings on Chris's front porch, under his house and I believe also inside the house. The only ones moved were Gary and/or Chris inside the house and left on the floor.

Be impossible to shoot all of them then put them in bed, no way. Kenny was up in a bunk.

It is possible Chris was first shot on his porch.

Canepa said all the witnesses were killed that's why I believe Gary was killed.
I think Chris was killed first and they were marking time in his trailer, they took time to drag bodies. Then Gary came in later.

By dragging a body or 2 bodies and marking time in the trailer, they left footprints.

I think there was a footprint at Dana's, I assume blood was still on their shoes.

Kenny?

1.) He could have been killed because in some fashion he would be a witness against them.

2.) Yes he would want revenge.

3.) Killing him makes it look less like custody is involved, he had nothing to do with custody.

4.) It makes it look more drug related. There were some plants at his house and money left on him and only one shot, not personal, "business like."

...2 Cents...

D

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Google Image Result for https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_46/1509376/160422-ohio-homicide-pike-country-1022p_87d361620b53c3684950f99d9c1543a2.nbcnews-fp-1200-630.jpg
CC, I have a question for you about why was a shell casings found under Big Chris mobile home, the mobile home is boxed in with under pen????

 

[Cool Cats]

Google Image Result for https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_46/1509376/160422-ohio-homicide-pike-country-1022p_87d361620b53c3684950f99d9c1543a2.nbcnews-fp-1200-630.jpg
CC, I have a question for you about why was a shell casings found under Big Chris mobile home, the mobile home is boxed in with under pen????

Good question.
It would be easy to shoot a bullet that goes through the skirting outside or through the floor inside. Would it be possible for a casing to also get under the trailer the same as a bullet?

I assume the casing went under same as a bullet would but I don't know enough about casings and how they fly after a gun is fired.

I'll check again to see exactly what Schiederer said about the casings.