OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

[Covert Operative]

I agree. She wouldn't be the right age. Isn't RN in her 60s? Her mother may only be in her early to mid 80s. She could very well be alive and very active. I know an 81-82 year old couple who ride their motorcycle most days of the year unless it's raining or snowing, and others who are living full and active lives in their 90s.

She is around 88.

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree. She wouldn't be the right age. Isn't RN in her 60s? Her mother may only be in her early to mid 80s. She could very well be alive and very active. I know an 81-82 year old couple who ride their motorcycle most days of the year unless it's raining or snowing, and others who are living full and active lives in their 90s.

NEWCOMB, RITA JO

• DOB
  
• 03/11/1953

Her mom has health issues, Rita did her house arrest at her mom's to help take care of her.

The only one who fits the description is FW including having a husband who would have been a critical witness but passed away after April 2016 and she is supportive of George, pro defense. She even told MSM that she told LE who she thought did it.

She was 76 at her court hearings, easy mistake to make, I've seen other small mistakes in Wagner motions.

 

[Covert Operative]

G4 (his lawyer) is the only one of the 4 that replied to the civil suit. FW and RN replied also. RN replied on her own behalf. I did find it strange that he would reply but not the others.

 

[Ann99]

NEWCOMB, RITA JO

• DOB
  
• 03/11/1953

Her mom has health issues, Rita did her house arrest at her mom's to help take care of her.

The only one who fits the description is FW including having a husband who would have been a critical witness but passed away after April 2016 and she is supportive of George, pro defense. She even told MSM that she told LE who she thought did it.

She was 76 at her court hearings, easy mistake to make, I've seen other small mistakes in Wagner motions.

I agree, almost has to be FW.
I wanted to check the circumstances of FW dismissal.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/cha...ka-wagner-dismissed-in-rhoden-family-massacre

"Wagner had petitioned that her charges be dismissed, and Judge Randy D. Deering ordered that done without prejudice.
Deering also issued a gag order against the attorneys regarding her case."

WITHOUT PREJUDICE
A case that is dismissed “with prejudice” is dismissed permanently

A case that is dismissed “without prejudice” is only dismissed temporarily

This temporary dismissal means that the plaintiff is allowed to re-file charges, alter the claim, or bring the case to another court.

If the witness is FW she had better be careful in what she testifies to in a deposition.
Depositions are under oath, so any information during the deposition must be truthful.
Lying during deposition can have serious repercussions for FW. The original charges against her can be refiled.


The gag order against the attorney is confusing to me.

If the unknown witness is FW, Is it possible that a deposition will make it possible to get around the gag order.

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree, almost has to be FW. I wanted to check the circumstances of FW dismissal.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/cha...ka-wagner-dismissed-in-rhoden-family-massacre

"Wagner had petitioned that her charges be dismissed, and Judge Randy D. Deering ordered that done without prejudice.
Deering also issued a gag order against the attorneys regarding her case."

WITHOUT PREJUDICE
A case that is dismissed “with prejudice” is dismissed permanently

A case that is dismissed “without prejudice” is only dismissed temporarily

This temporary dismissal means that the plaintiff is allowed to re-file charges, alter the claim, or bring the case to another court.

If the witness is FW she had better be careful in what she testifies to in a deposition.
Depositions are under oath, so any information during the deposition must be truthful.
Lying during deposition can have serious repercussions for FW. The original charges against her can be refiled.


The gag order against the attorney is confusing to me.

If the unknown witness is FW, Is it possible that a deposition will make it possible to get around the gag order.

The only way to get around the gag order is to have the judge's permission so the deposition won't make a difference.

I'm 50 50 on whether or not she would fight a subpoena to give her deposition.
The grounds for the deposition are shakey in my opinion, something her attorney could easily counter. It is strictly an age issue for the defense, as if she will drop dead before the trial which is only 1-2 years away.

If the judge grants the motion for the deposistion FW's attorney will take it from there, he can file a motion against it or advise her to do it. She will go on the advice of her attorney.

As you said, you can put yourself in jeopardy by giving a deposition, even be indicted for perjury if you are caught lying. The deposition is to use at trial if she can't be there.

Never give a deposition without an attorney with you. They will object to certain questions and advise you on your testimony. Lucky for FW she has a great attorney
who will tell her what to do and what to say.

I wonder what she really thinks about her family, she must know about the evidence.

Are Depositions Under Oath? Read Before Being Deposed - Deposition Academy | Deposition Video Tips

 

[Tiff23fr]

NEWCOMB, RITA JO

• DOB
  
• 03/11/1953

Her mom has health issues, Rita did her house arrest at her mom's to help take care of her.

The only one who fits the description is FW including having a husband who would have been a critical witness but passed away after April 2016 and she is supportive of George, pro defense. She even told MSM that she told LE who she thought did it.

She was 76 at her court hearings, easy mistake to make, I've seen other small mistakes in Wagner motions.

I was curious to go back and see where I saw reference to another party by FW beyond just the MSM article. This sample section of her GJ testimony included in her Motion to Dismiss could be what the defense is seeking elaboration on. Just a possibility..

FW: .....because I thought so and so was going to come up here and try to kill him. You know, and uh...
Attorney Canepa: Well we know if so and so comes up to kill him, he is taking out the whole family, right? I mean, right?
FW: And I care about my daughter, but I’m not afraid of him. I am not afraid of him. Never let your fear overtake your faith.

Page 26/27 (Contributed by Fox19)
DocumentCloud

 

[Cool Cats]

I was curious to go back and see where I saw reference to another party by FW beyond just the MSM article. This sample section of her GJ testimony included in her Motion to Dismiss could be what the defense is seeking elaboration on. Just a possibility..

FW: .....because I thought so and so was going to come up here and try to kill him. You know, and uh...
Attorney Canepa: Well we know if so and so comes up to kill him, he is taking out the whole family, right? I mean, right?
FW: And I care about my daughter, but I’m not afraid of him. I am not afraid of him. Never let your fear overtake your faith.

Page 26/27 (Contributed by Fox19)
DocumentCloud

Where is this testimony? I keep looking for it but keep missing it.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Where is this testimony? I keep looking for it but keep missing it.

That document cloud link should take you to it. It was uploaded by media. If you are uncomfortable clicking the link, a Google search can lead you to it as well. Search: FW Motion to Dismiss.

 

[Cool Cats]

That document cloud link should take you to it. It was uploaded by media. If you are uncomfortable clicking the link, a Google search can lead you to it as well. Search: FW Motion to Dismiss.

Yes I used your link and cannot find this specifically:

FW: .....because I thought so and so was going to come up here and try to kill him. You know, and uh...
Attorney Canepa: Well we know if so and so comes up to kill him, he is taking out the whole family, right? I mean, right?
FW: And I care about my daughter, but I’m not afraid of him. I am not afraid of him. Never let your fear overtake your faith.

I checked all these conversations a few times. Could you specify the page?

Maybe I'm brain freezing today!

 

[Betty P]

I agree, almost has to be FW.
I wanted to check the circumstances of FW dismissal.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/cha...ka-wagner-dismissed-in-rhoden-family-massacre

"Wagner had petitioned that her charges be dismissed, and Judge Randy D. Deering ordered that done without prejudice.
Deering also issued a gag order against the attorneys regarding her case."

WITHOUT PREJUDICE
A case that is dismissed “with prejudice” is dismissed permanently

A case that is dismissed “without prejudice” is only dismissed temporarily

This temporary dismissal means that the plaintiff is allowed to re-file charges, alter the claim, or bring the case to another court.

If the witness is FW she had better be careful in what she testifies to in a deposition.
Depositions are under oath, so any information during the deposition must be truthful.
Lying during deposition can have serious repercussions for FW. The original charges against her can be refiled.


The gag order against the attorney is confusing to me.

If the unknown witness is FW, Is it possible that a deposition will make it possible to get around the gag order.

This is what I think, too. The attorney is trying to get FW's concocted story out to the public (and to potential jurors) in a situation that doesn't allow for cross examination by the state. At minimum, it's allowing GW4's attorney to broadcast to the public that his grandmother can give testimony that will "exonerate" him. Just another way of telegraphing a message to the public that GW4 is "innocent".

 

[Tiff23fr]

Yes I used your link and cannot find this specifically:

FW: .....because I thought so and so was going to come up here and try to kill him. You know, and uh...
Attorney Canepa: Well we know if so and so comes up to kill him, he is taking out the whole family, right? I mean, right?
FW: And I care about my daughter, but I’m not afraid of him. I am not afraid of him. Never let your fear overtake your faith.

I checked all these conversations a few times. Could you specify the page?

Maybe I'm brain freezing today!

no problem- bottom of page 26 and top of page 27 in that pdf link

 

[Ann99]

no problem- bottom of page 26 and top of page 27 in that pdf link

Yes, just keep scrolling down - more specifically it is full EXHIBIT #1 .

I do wish Canepa had not interrupted FW at that point. Wonder what else FW would have said if left alone to ramble on. The words "so and so " - do you think FW actually had a real person in mind, or was this just a hopeful/wild thought that there was "someone" else out there who would do harm to Billy. ...?
And, also, does this mean Billy was living there with FW and RW at that time? FW speaks as though she was not afraid and RW had a vest from riding, but would not wear the vest, and then Billy had the vest she purchased for him but he did not wear it either..?
This is causing more confusion for me - only the FWFarm household needed vests?
So, what about the other Wagners? AW, JW, GW?
I know it wasn't intended but this isolated testimony makes it seem like only Billy was a target and maybe the other W's didn't need protection.
A tangled web of deceit.

 

[Betty P]

I was curious to go back and see where I saw reference to another party by FW beyond just the MSM article. This sample section of her GJ testimony included in her Motion to Dismiss could be what the defense is seeking elaboration on. Just a possibility..

FW: .....because I thought so and so was going to come up here and try to kill him. You know, and uh...
Attorney Canepa: Well we know if so and so comes up to kill him, he is taking out the whole family, right? I mean, right?
FW: And I care about my daughter, but I’m not afraid of him. I am not afraid of him. Never let your fear overtake your faith.

Page 26/27 (Contributed by Fox19)
DocumentCloud

I assumed when FW refers to "so and so was going to come up here and try to kill him (Billy)" she was speaking in hypothetical terms about the people who she believed killed the Rhoden Family. That said, it's very possible she will make up some story about a fictional or real person who she'll claim was the murderer. Recall in her interview with Cleveland.com, she said she thought it was Isis or some cartel. Maybe she'll try for the butler, in the library, with a dagger.

Also note at the beginning of the linked motion, FW's attorneys make a false claim that, when investigating the Rhoden/Gilley Massacre, BCI discovered evidence of a cockfighting operation.

That's untrue, there were only animals there that Frankie was raising. Based on that embellishment of the facts, it appears the defense teams will try to blame the Rhodens for their own murders, claiming mystery people associated with all kinds of alleged activities the Rhodens were engaged in were responsible for the massacre of 8 people.

The problem with that approach is the only evidence at the crime scenes and elsewhere, including recorded phone calls, ballistics, DNA, texts, security and game cam footage, etc. point to the Wagners.

JMO

ETA: I've always wondered why Fredericka Wagner allegedly only went to the trouble to protect her son, Billy, after the murders by buying him TWO (2) BPV's, but did nothing to protect her grandchildren?

If FW cares so much she's willing to testify on behalf of her grandson George, why didn't she buy two BPV's for him? How about Jake? As an "innocent" person who knew nothing about who might have killed the Rhodens and HG, why did she only care to protect Billy and her daughter?

 

[Tiff23fr]

Yes, just keep scrolling down - more specifically it is full EXHIBIT #1 .

I do wish Canepa had not interrupted FW at that point. Wonder what else FW would have said if left alone to ramble on. The words "so and so " - do you think FW actually had a real person in mind, or was this just a hopeful/wild thought that there was "someone" else out there who would do harm to Billy. ...?
And, also, does this mean Billy was living there with FW and RW at that time? FW speaks as though she was not afraid and RW had a vest from riding, but would not wear the vest, and then Billy had the vest she purchased for him but he did not wear it either..?
This is causing more confusion for me - only the FWFarm household needed vests?
So, what about the other Wagners? AW, JW, GW?
I know it wasn't intended but this isolated testimony makes it seem like only Billy was a target and maybe the other W's didn't need protection.
A tangled web of deceit.

She also purchased something for his legs (page 26). Could it have been full on body armor? Was it mentioned as a "in case you find/found this". JMO

 

[Betty P]

She also purchased something for his legs (page 26). Could it have been full on body armor? Was it mentioned as a "in case you find/found this". JMO

Yes, I recall, she seemed to be trying to cover her all bases in that GJ testimony. Possible, too, she was trying to "fish" for more information about what kind of evidence the state had. Innocent people who have nothing to fear don't answer questions that way.

 

[Ann99]

Sounds to me like Billy was the one who had to be armored up, covered from head to toe in vest and leg gear because he was the one who led the charge, blasting his way into CRSR place guns blazing. My opinion.
edit to add.
Would this leg armor cause a person to have a different gait or stride when walking? What is this armor like?
I am remembering the thought, (When talking about shoes and shoe prints) that one person had a different gait or a limp in their walk, perhaps a bad leg...

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The only way to get around the gag order is to have the judge's permission so the deposition won't make a difference.

I'm 50 50 on whether or not she would fight a subpoena to give her deposition.
The grounds for the deposition are shakey in my opinion, something her attorney could easily counter. It is strictly an age issue for the defense, as if she will drop dead before the trial which is only 1-2 years away.

If the judge grants the motion for the deposistion FW's attorney will take it from there, he can file a motion against it or advise her to do it. She will go on the advice of her attorney.

As you said, you can put yourself in jeopardy by giving a deposition, even be indicted for perjury if you are caught lying. The deposition is to use at trial if she can't be there.

Never give a deposition without an attorney with you. They will object to certain questions and advise you on your testimony. Lucky for FW she has a great attorney
who will tell her what to do and what to say.

I wonder what she really thinks about her family, she must know about the evidence.

Are Depositions Under Oath? Read Before Being Deposed - Deposition Academy | Deposition Video Tips

I really would hate to claim that I’m a Christian and take a chance of lying to the court to get one of my family members off death row, then die myself and stand before My Maker and tell him that I set a serial killer loose, ( One Way Ticket To HE11) ! JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

If the new "76 yo" witness has critical case information that G4's attorneys feel will help his case , why didn't this witness come forward earlier?

Why now, what are their motives? G4 has been sitting in jail for over two years.

Completely IMO, the W4's original defense plan was to stick together in their lies. They thought by doing so, they could never be convicted. That defense plan is no longer working so well, so they need to start culling the herd.

All JMO

 

[Covert Operative]

I assumed when FW refers to "so and so was going to come up here and try to kill him (Billy)" she was speaking in hypothetical terms about the people who she believed killed the Rhoden Family. That said, it's very possible she will make up some story about a fictional or real person who she'll claim was the murderer. Recall in her interview with Cleveland.com, she said she thought it was Isis or some cartel. Maybe she'll try for the butler, in the library, with a dagger.

Also note at the beginning of the linked motion, FW's attorneys make a false claim that, when investigating the Rhoden/Gilley Massacre, BCI discovered evidence of a cockfighting operation.

That's untrue, there were only animals there that Frankie was raising. Based on that embellishment of the facts, it appears the defense teams will try to blame the Rhodens for their own murders, claiming mystery people associated with all kinds of alleged activities the Rhodens were engaged in were responsible for the massacre of 8 people.

The problem with that approach is the only evidence at the crime scenes and elsewhere, including recorded phone calls, ballistics, DNA, texts, security and game cam footage, etc. point to the Wagners.

JMO

ETA: I've always wondered why Fredericka Wagner allegedly only went to the trouble to protect her son, Billy, after the murders by buying him TWO (2) BPV's, but did nothing to protect her grandchildren?

If FW cares so much she's willing to testify on behalf of her grandson George, why didn't she buy two BPV's for him? How about Jake? As an "innocent" person who knew nothing about who might have killed the Rhodens and HG, why did she only care to protect Billy and her daughter?

I think she was speaking hypothetical, she also said "they" in another part of her testimony and I think that was hypothetical. I had thought maybe there were vests at her house that she knew went missing. She replaced them in case someone had seen them not thinking in advance that she would be raided and the vests would be questioned. Then she and her lawyer had to come up with some story which took several months and that is why the receipts were not turned over right away.

I really would hate to claim that I’m a Christian and take a chance of lying to the court to get one of my family members off death row, then die myself and stand before My Maker and tell him that I set a serial killer loose, ( One Way Ticket To HE11) ! JMO

Preach it !!!

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I think she was speaking hypothetical, she also said "they" in another part of her testimony and I think that was hypothetical. I had thought maybe there were vests at her house that she knew went missing. She replaced them in case someone had seen them not thinking in advance that she would be raided and the vests would be questioned. Then she and her lawyer had to come up with some story which took several months and that is why the receipts were not turned over right away.

Preach it !!!

CO,
You’re on to something, FW and her attorney came up with recipes for the new bulletproof vest found but if you read what you posted earlier about FWs Grand Jury testimony, When AC ask FW about her and RW having a bulletproof vest, FW responded that she didn’t need one because she had faith and that Robin already had one where she fulls with horses but don’t wear it,!!!!! So did Billy, Jake and George already have bulletproof vest where they messed with horses????