OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #70

[Cool Cats]

At one time we speculated that RW was the female witness Canapa mentioned who overheard the revenge conversations. This was after the Wagners returned to Pike and were staying in FW and RW home. Does anyone remember this? I still think there is a good chance that Robin has first hand testimony about the Wagners actions

Maybe Billy moved back to FWF but Angela was living in the house she inherited from her dad. The kids were there so I assume Jake and George were living there also. Canepa said there was never a time Jake and George didn't live with Angela.

I never thought about Robin being the female witness to the revenge conversations. To be the witness she would have had to tell BCI about those conversations and I doubt she would do that - doubt she would have said anything negative about the 4 Wagners. Fred was proclaiming their innocence and both Fred and Robin went to George's hearings with FW being supportive of him in the media.

Elizabeth, on the other hand, told BCI about the abuse she got from the Wagners. The Other Acts Evidence has detailed information in it that I believe could have only come from Elizabeth's first hand knowledge of living with the Wagners.

• The Locations Jurors Will Visit In George Wagner, IV's …
• 52 Havener Lane, South Webster, Ohio
  
  This home was owned by Angela Wagner’s late father. The family stayed at the home after returning from Alaska in 2018. State agents took Angela Wagner into custody at the home on November 13, 2018. George’s son and Jake’s daughter, were at the home at the time of her arrest.

 

[Chelly]

Maybe Billy moved back to FWF but Angela was living in the house she inherited from her dad. The kids were there so I assume Jake and George were living there also. Canepa said there was never a time Jake and George didn't live with Angela.

I never thought about Robin being the female witness to the revenge conversations. To be the witness she would have had to tell BCI about those conversations and I doubt she would do that - doubt she would have said anything negative about the 4 Wagners. Fred was proclaiming their innocence and both Fred and Robin went to George's hearings with FW being supportive of him in the media.

Elizabeth, on the other hand, told BCI about the abuse she got from the Wagners. The Other Acts Evidence has detailed information in it that I believe could have only come from Elizabeth's first hand knowledge of living with the Wagners.

• The Locations Jurors Will Visit In George Wagner, IV's …
• 52 Havener Lane, South Webster, Ohio
  
  This home was owned by Angela Wagner’s late father. The family stayed at the home after returning from Alaska in 2018. State agents took Angela Wagner into custody at the home on November 13, 2018. George’s son and Jake’s daughter, were at the home at the time of her arrest.

Thanks for clearing that up. I think that wraps up my pretrial questions about long ago discussions in the case.

 

[Betty P]

At one time we speculated that RW was the female witness Canapa mentioned who overheard the revenge conversations. This was after the Wagners returned to Pike from Alaska and were staying in FW and RW home. Does anyone remember this? I still think there is a good chance that Robin has first hand testimony about the Wagners actions

JMO, RW would never speak out against her family. Like her mother, she probably was in denial about her family's involvement in the murders until Jake confessed. JMO. Later, they somehow rationalized it.

 

[Cool Cats]

JMO, RW would never speak out against her family. Like her mother, she probably was in denial about her family's involvement in the murders until Jake confessed. JMO. Later, they somehow rationalized it.

If FW and RW get called to the stand they will be under oath and it could get uncomfortable for them if they have to confirm anything negative about George, like hearing his threats and - who only knows - what else might come up.

The prosecution wouldn't have them on the stand to make George look innocent.

But right, no way Robin would have bad mouthed George to BCI. It would be a real good thing for FWF if George was acquitted of the murders.

 

[Betty P]

If FW and RW get called to the stand they will be under oath and it could get uncomfortable for them if they have to confirm anything negative about George, like hearing his threats and - who only knows - what else might come up.

The prosecution wouldn't have them on the stand to make George look innocent.

But right, no way Robin would have bad mouthed George to BCI. It would be a real good thing for FWF if George was acquitted of the murders.

Correct. If the Defense called them as witnesses, its a risky move if the prosecution decides to cross-examine them.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

At one time we speculated that RW was the female witness Canapa mentioned who overheard the revenge conversations. This was after the Wagners returned to Pike from Alaska and were staying in FW and RW home. Does anyone remember this? I still think there is a good chance that Robin has first hand testimony about the Wagners actions

Is Robin the one who kept showing up to court and writing all over her clothes?

 

[Betty P]

Is Robin the one who kept showing up to court and writing all over her clothes?

Yes. Assume it was her way of taking notes or something. It will be interesting to see how she and her mother testify, if called.

 

[Fat Old Man]

SUBPOENA

Our the SUBPOENA issued, as a group ? Not separated as these are Defense, this set is Prosecution witness.

 

[rescuemom]

I wonder if this was the route taken that night? if so it looks like the W's killed Chris and Gary, moved on to Frankie and Hanna then left to go to Kenny's and then circled back leaving dana's for last. I still think Kenny saw or the W's thought he saw that truck in Chris's driveway that night, so they had to kill him and fast. IMO they followed Kenny or arrived at his home shortly after he did. i think he was getting ready for bed. <modsnip -no link> I think Kenny was sitting up in bed and probably called brownie off by telling her to stay or something when Jake knocked and called out to Kenny and tell him it's me, Jake.

No other reason to kill Kenny and especially not kill him before hitting Dana's house.

JMO

Depending on the timeline maybe when they moved on to Dana's that they weren't sure she was home yet?? just a thought

 

[SuziQ]

About EW. If anyone knows, is her fear because she knows what the Ws did to the Rhodens or just because of her experiences living or being around the Ws?? I missed how she was able to leave them, anyone know??

I don't know which of exes this would apply to, I have a feeling the Prosecution wants to show the Wagner's had a pattern of bullying the exes and taking children, and one of them was eerily similar to what they were doing to HR. I think this is the most important info the exes have to offer. Imo.

 

[ohioexpat63]

I think the only thing that kept EW alive was the W4 knew they were being scrutinized by LE. She is one lucky lady to have gotten out from the grips of murderers. Id like to know at what point did she discover the W4s were actual murderers. Im assuming she didnt know or didnt believe what was being said pre marriage to JW. Jmo

 

[SuziQ]

I think the only thing that kept EW alive was the W4 knew they were being scrutinized by LE. She is one lucky lady to have gotten out from the grips of murderers. Id like to know at what point did she discover the W4s were actual murderers. Im assuming she didnt know or didnt believe what was being said pre marriage to JW. Jmo

I would like to know more about the exes. I have been catching up by bouncing around podcasts and have not come across much about them.

<modsnip>

 

[Betty P]

We'd should avoid sleuthing or talking about either of the exes, but especially EW.

She will likely be a key witness for the prosecution. Neither of them is considered by LE to be suspects in the murders.

TIA

 

[almond]

This is a link to a petition to allow the public to view the Wagner trials. Sign the Petition

This is a link to an article in the Scioto Guardian. Wagner trial in jeopardy of public viewing after six years of investigations, proceedings - Scioto Valley Guardian
"While the trial of the youngest Wagner, George IV, is set to begin Tuesday in the small town, Judge Randy Deering has issued an order that the news media may not record much of the proceedings."

 

[Betty P]

This is a link to a petition to allow the public to view the Wagner trials. Sign the Petition

This is a link to an article in the Scioto Guardian. Wagner trial in jeopardy of public viewing after six years of investigations, proceedings - Scioto Valley Guardian
"While the trial of the youngest Wagner, George IV, is set to begin Tuesday in the small town, Judge Randy Deering has issued an order that the news media may not record much of the proceedings."

The judge's order says the witnesses may not be recorded if they choose. In past cases, video of witnesses has been withheld, but audio of their testimony is played. Judge Deering is saying he doesn't want the media to play audio of their testimony, either.

I don't have a problem with that. This case is a rare exception and apparently, the judge and law enforcement have some concerns about the safety of these witnesses. The Wagner family has a lot of assets and power within that area. Some witnesses may potentially be in danger from those associated with the Wagner family, not just during the trial, but after. There's no witness protection program for them, nor does the county have the budget to provide them with protection.

A transcript of the witness testimony will be made public. It will be witnessed by both sides and the news media present in the courtroom for this case. If there's a discrepancy, I'm sure the defense attorneys will raise the alarm. Maybe they can find a compromise by allowing the witnesses voices to be artificially altered.

Any blame for the high cost of these trials (as mentioned in the linked article) lies with the Wagner family.

 

[almond]

The judge's order says the witnesses may not be recorded if they choose. In past cases, video of witnesses has been withheld, but audio of their testimony is played. Judge Deering is saying he doesn't want the media to play audio of their testimony, either.

I don't have a problem with that. This case is a rare exception and apparently, the judge and law enforcement have some concerns about the safety of these witnesses. The Wagner family has a lot of assets and power within that area. Some witnesses may potentially be in danger from those associated with the Wagner family, not just during the trial, but after. There's no witness protection program for them, nor does the county have the budget to provide them with protection.

A transcript of the witness testimony will be made public. It will be witnessed by both sides and the news media present in the courtroom for this case. If there's a discrepancy, I'm sure the defense attorneys will raise the alarm. Maybe they can find a compromise by allowing the witnesses voices to be artificially altered.

Any blame for the high cost of these trials (as mentioned in the linked article) lies with the Wagner family.

I hope there will be transcripts but wouldn't that also possibly endanger witnesses?

 

[joe jones]

What to Know About the 2016 Pike County Massacre as George Wagner IV's Trial Begins in Ohio

Opening statements are set to begin in the trial of George Wagner, IV in the murders of eight members of the Rhoden and Gilley families more than six years after their deaths.

lawandcrime.com

 

[Seattle1]

I believe both.

We know she left Jake in July 2018 and filed a police report against him. According to Canepa, The Wagners voted her out of the family seeing her as a liability but according to Jake it is not what he wanted.

(Again, I don't believe something Jake says.)

I think Elizabeth wanted to leave. She pled for her life according to Canepa and filed for harassment and identity theft.

According to the Other Acts Evidence she was harrassed by the Wagners and they threatened to kill her family if her family came to see her.

Angela was mad that Jake's daughter called her mom. Angela wanted to be the mom.

They spied on her and yes, by this time she was likely suspicious the Wagners could have killed 8 people. .

I believe she is the female witness Canepa mentioned who overheard the revenge conversations. Wouldn't surprise me if she is called to testify about this.

IMO, if EW was living with the Wagners, she was in the position to hear their family business whether she wanted to or not. As Jake's partner, she was in a position to be his confidant, whether she wanted or not. And in life, there are some things that are simply impossible to un-hear.

IMO, EW was likely one of several non-disclosed witnesses for this case not only for the State v. GW4 but for every Wagner defendant charged in this case.

But this trial is only about GW4. If GW4's defense is that he did not physically murder any of the 8 victims, I believe the only witness(s) of interest to GW4's defense team would be the witness(s) that they know when questioned under oath, can corroborate any details by GW4 -- whether by direct knowledge about the delegated assignments, and/or how the Wagner dynamics worked when a son was directed to do something and instead went rogue.

I think it's a given that there is no guarantee that whatever Jake told prosecutors about GW4's participation may not necessarily be what the Prosecution will use at the trial. Prosecutors are going to go with the version they think the evidence supports, and the version they believe they can convict GW4 on.

And whether the State's case against GW4 follows what any of us believe to be true, or follows what Jake recounted to prosecutors in his confession, will ultimately not matter because right or wrong, it's all going to be attributed to the State doing business with not one but many devils.

By OH law, we know that GW4 need not be the triggerman to be guilty of murder but his defense is also going to trial in an attempt to save GW4 from the penalty of death (i.e., punishment for AGGRAVATED murder conviction).

Thinking more about this, IMO, I think the only reason GW4's defense has been so steadfast on wanting to locate EW is that they believe under oath, EW's testimony would discredit the state's theory on GW4's actions -- especially if Jake confided in EW that Billy was going to kill him and GW4 went along to prevent Jake from being killed.

In other words, Jake may have already resolved in his own mind that he'd be the devil and support the Prosecution adopting an altered version about GW4's involvement because he knew that if/when EW testified truthfully, she would corroborate GW4's version. MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

From above article:

Canepa stated that the Wagners accused Elizabeth Freeman Wagner of sexually molesting one of the children and that she denied the allegation. Canepa said Freeman Wagner was also accused by the family of trying to poison the children with food and that Freeman Wagner fled the home fearing for her life after the family voted her out. Canepa said she wrote a letter to assist Freeman Wagner in changing her social security number so she couldn’t be located.

I don't remember ever hearing this, wow.

 

[ohioexpat63]

New to me as well, CC