OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #73

[Dudly]

Well looks like the ballistics guy just agreed with JW proffer that GW4 couldn't see so Jake took the gun and fired that outside shot? Is that what I just heard him say "the oil filter would obstruct the sighting"

If GWIV couldn’t see to aim, then how did JW?

 

[justtrish]

Oh I hope so, I really wanted to hear the footprint evidence

I am wondering if this witness is the one that collected the shoeprints or examined them for BCI, but later the expert was called in. I am sure they have to go point by point to get the evidence in so explaining what happened before the expert examined them allows them to them introduce the expert that found out which brand and shoe it was and how he did that.

 

[justtrish]

If GWIV couldn’t see to aim, then how did JW?

I don't think he could based on CRsr being shot in the arm. I would think if he could see clearly he would have hit something else. I googled fuel filter silencer and not sure if we can post photos of things not in evidence like that, but it is a rather large obstruction.

 

[24Roses]

While her testimony would be nice to hear, the world renowned expert will be coming up and I would think he would agree to be on camera. It's good for business and he was recorded during other hearings and is exceptional at explaining it all!

I just assumed that the current shoe witness would be the only one. I honestly haven't watched any of the hearings after the Wagners were arrested. I watched JW's plea hearing some time after it happened. So, thanks I'm more hopeful now that we will still hear some shoe testimony.
On a side note, I've learned so much new information (to me) in the last few days from everyone's posts. Especially from the pre trial hearings that I was not able to watch. So thanks everyone!

 

[dgfred]

Well looks like the ballistics guy just agreed with JW proffer that GW4 couldn't see so Jake took the gun and fired that outside shot? Is that what I just heard him say "the oil filter would obstruct the sighting"

But the killers would have known that long before the murders. IMO (repeat IMO) I think JW is just saying that to minimize GW4's involvement as much as possible.

If GW4 couldn't see down sites... nobody else could either.

 

[Niner]

Going to grab a bunch of tweets - BRB...

 

[Chelly]

Disappointing the shoe print expert will not testify on camera.

We will need to depend on whatever information the reporters in courtroom provide during breaks. Judge does not allow phones/computers in court.

 

[justtrish]

I just assumed that the current shoe witness would be the only one. I honestly haven't watched any of the hearings after the Wagners were arrested. I watched JW's plea hearing some time after it happened. So, thanks I'm more hopeful now that we will still hear some shoe testimony.
On a side note, I've learned so much new information (to me) in the last few days from everyone's posts. Especially from the pre trial hearings that I was not able to watch. So thanks everyone!

If you'd like to watch here is part 1 the prosecution questioning him:

part 2 the defense questioning him from the preliminary hearing April 5, 2022:

 

[justtrish]

But the killers would have known that long before the murders. IMO (repeat IMO) I think JW is just saying that to minimize GW4's involvement as much as possible.

If GW4 couldn't see down sites... nobody else could either.

If I recall correctly, they were hidden in that truck they modified the bed of or behind the truck in the front yard. I think it's possible from where George was he didn't have a good shot or a good view or was taking too long trying to make the shot (possibly due to the suppressor making it harder to line up the sights) so Jake grabbed it and fired willy nilly and hit CRsr's arm.. or Jake could have got upset with George and George just fired willy nilly without having a great shot and his his arm.

 

[Betty P]

If you'd like to watch here is part 1 the prosecution questioning him:

part 2 the defense questioning him from the preliminary hearing April 5, 2022:

I think this guy will be testifying again at this trial. He's very good. IIRC, he was called in to validate and expand on the work done by Ohio BCI's shoeprint expert, who is testifying today.

 

[Niner]

Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: Matt White, the BCI ballistics expert, is returning to the stand in Waverly.


White was asked to compare the casings found at the four scenes - which he walked us through yesterday.

Says he used a comparison microscope - can look at two items simultaneously at same magnification.

Prosecutor Andy Wilson doing questioning.



Here is a comparison of the .30 caliber bullets found at "Scene 1" - Chris Rhoden Sr's property where he and Gary died.

White's conclusion: all .30 caliber jackets were fired from the same weapon.



Now comparing the .40 caliber jacket from Chris Sr's kitchen with the one found in Kenneth Rhoden's trailer.

Conclusion: these 40 S&W cartridge cases were fired from same firearm.



Now White explains comparing the .40 caliber bullets removed from Chris Rhoden Sr's body during his autopsy.

White says they call came from the same firearm.



Also compared the .40 caliber bullet from Gary Rhoden's body collected during autopsy to those from Chris Sr.

White's conclusion: they were all fired from the same gun.

White says all .40 caliber bullets from Scene 1 (Chris Sr's property) were fired from the same gun - and they were all fired from the same gun used at Scene 4 (Kenneth Rhoden's).

Comparison photo shown to the court.



White tells the jury all .40 caliber S&W cartridge casings match form same gun.

All .40 caliber projectiles match as same gun.

He can't necessarily say the casings and projectiles are the same.

All five 22 LR cartridge casings from Scene 2 (Frankie and Hannah) are from same gun, White says.

Also compared them to the 22 LR from Scene 3 (Dana's house).

White shows comparison of the casings from Scene 2 and Scene 3.

He points out the vertical edge and markings from firing pin.

Conclusion: All 22 LR casings had been fired in same firearm (between Scenes 2 & 3)



White clarifies - same .40 caliber was used at different scenes. Same .22 LR was used at different scenes. Also a .30 caliber used.

Now he has try to figure out what kind of each firearm was used.

White is pointing out a close up of what he calls an "unusual" firing pin impression on .22 LR case - says he had never seen one like this before.

All the 22 LR had same unusual shape and orientation of impression - so White says gun had to be unique.



White asked some colleagues about unique impressions. One at the BCI lab at Bowling Green said he had a gun that made similar impressions.

It was a Walther Colt 1911 .22 pistol.

White talked with an engineer at Walther in Germany - they concluded this was the gun that made those impressions.

ow onto the .40 caliber firearm.

Based on the impressions left, White believed these to come from a Glock pistol.

White says characteristics are different than most recent generations - he says it was a Glock Generation 2

rosecutor Wilson ends on that. John Parker will cross.

Starts with a demonstration - the Walther Colt. White explains the branding here - and that magazine holds 10 bullets. So it can fire 11 shots.






link: https://twitter.com/evanmillward


continued...

 

[CIA Team Member]

Well the witness are indeed testifying in open court and their testimony is recorded by the court reporter. They are just opting out of being broadcast on video. While I have never seen this option given, I don't see anything wrong with it. Very few trials are video broadcast.

Also, LE/BCI must return to their communities. They have families and fears too. Some may even work undercover at times or intend to, who knows. I don't blame them.

 

[justtrish]

I think this guy will be testifying again at this trial. He's very good. IIRC, he was called in to validate and expand on the work done by Ohio BCI's shoeprint expert, who is testifying today.

These videos are from the preliminary hearing for George! He explains very well how he examines the shoes and how he concluded what shoes these prints came from.

 

[Niner]

Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
·
2h
PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: Demonstration model Glock being used in court is a Gen 4 - as Parker points out. But just a demonstration gun.

White says magazine for Glock can hold up to 20 bullets.

Both the Glock and the Walther Colt both fire one shot for each pull of trigger

This demonstration rifle is an SKS - manufactured in China. Also made in Russia (originally).

Notes this is a wood stock, but can be polymer.



White says attaching a suppressor needs a threaded barrel, so the firearm doesn't hit the suppressor and damage or blow up the gun.

This demonstrator SKS does not have a threaded barrel. A homemade suppressor could obscure the sites - damage the barrel.

White says a plastic suppressor likely wouldn't hold up to the power of the gun. He says most are steel, titanium, or aluminum

Parker is asking if this SKS can be fired in any position (standing, sitting, kneeling, etc) - White says yes but accuracy may be impacted.

Says It is also semi-automatic - one trigger pull = one shot.

White again holds up a 7.62x39 mm cartridge - designed to be used in the SKS.

It is Tulammo brand ammunition.



White notes that there are larger capacity mags available for the SKS - can hold up to 30 cartridges - and would extend below the bottom of the rifle.

White testifies that a homemade silencer made from - say - an oil filter from a vehicle, depending on how it is attached, could obstruct the gun's sites.

We heard in openings - this is what Jake says may be why George didn't shoot - he couldn't see.

Cross-examination is done - now to re-direct.

Wilson shows White a photo - he identifies it as an SKS style rifle. Includes a site designed for grenade or rocket launcher.



Wilson asks if its possible to weld a homemade silencer to the end of the SKS.

White says it would be less accurate - if alignment isn't right, it could damage.



White says he had no .30 caliber cartridge casings to compare - what does that mean? They were overlooked or not present, he says.

We wrap Matt White's testimony. Court is on break.

link: https://twitter.com/evanmillward

 

[Chelly]

https://twitter.com/EvanMillward
@EvanMillward

PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: Next witness is Suzanne Elliott, a BCI shoe print expert. She was originally going on camera but we now hear she has opted out of broadcast - so she will not appear on the livestream.

 

[Niner]

Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
·
1h
PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: Next witness is Suzanne Elliott, a BCI shoe print expert.

She was originally going on camera but we now hear she has opted out of broadcast - so she will not appear on the livestream.

A reminder - Judge Deering has allowed ANY witness to opt out of being broadcast in the #GeorgeWagnerIV case.

BCI's shoe print expert did that today, which is why you are seeing this on the @WCPO
livestream.


link: https://twitter.com/evanmillward




Nothing more on this witness - that was about an hour ago. maybe lunch?

 

[Chelly]

I understand why Ms. Elliott, the BCI shoe print expert, may not want to be recognized (on camera) as being associated with this case. I think the shoe prints findings will be valuable testimony

 

[Hapworth]

Family agreed.. Canepa was very clear that the prosecution talked to the family about Jake's plea. The family evidently felt LWOP was a good sentence rather than the DP which has appeals forever. You can't do appeals in a plea deal.

As for Angie of course the prosecution talked to the family about it but I know a family member said she (Angie) gets 30 more years than what their family gets.

I can only assume the family went along with Angie's 30 year plea deal. No parole, no early release.

I believe it helped the family to hear Jake and Angie admit what they did. To come out and confess. 2 down for them.

Interesting , did not know that you can’t do appeals in a Plea Deal. Good information, thank you .

 

[iulia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574808572222996482

 

[sunshineray]

If you'd like to watch here is part 1 the prosecution questioning him:

part 2 the defense questioning him from the preliminary hearing April 5, 2022:

Thank you justirish!