OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #76

[Betty P]

Perhaps they want to use the tape to imply Jake also lied in his proffer.

Any murderer who was being questioned by LE is going to lie at first. Years later, if they decide to turn state's evidence, they're going to tell the truth and it will be different from what they said in previous interviews. If you're confessing, it's ok to admit you lied before when you were trying to hide your guilt.

But a defense attorney who is trying to get your partner off is going to try to make you look like you're lying all the time. That's what defense attorneys are paid to do, use any trick in the book to put killers back on the street.

Assume AC is saying the way GW4's defense is trying to impeach confession testimony isn't allowed in conspiracy cases, where one (or in this case 2) killers are confessing while testifying about their co-conspirators who haven't confessed. Manipulating an old interview to impeach the testimony of the conspirator who has confessed, on order to get off the conspirator who refuses to confess.

I'm going to read this part of the argument again later to figure out the conspiracy charge argument.

 

[Betty P]

OK. Maybe they were not the murder weapons. If I misunderstood, I am sorry.

We'll double check. It could be they were the weapons on the Family Gun List mentioned previously that weren't used in the murders. The ones from that collection that were used in the murders were stashed somewhere else. Depending on the date of that search, they may or may not have ended up in the bottom of the pond.

One would have to ask, though, why any of her brother's family guns needed to be hidden, especially when everyone knew they were under investigation for the murder of the Rhoden family and Hannah Gilley.

I hope BCI asked Robin how long the guns had been hidden in her room and whether, at any point in time, some guns had been removed from the collection. JMO, I can't imagine sleeping with that many guns stored in my bedroom, just sayin'. Why didn't they just put them in a shed or something? There are alot of buildings on FWF. Not much livestock left, so plenty of room.

 

[Pru2U]

OK. Maybe they were not the murder weapons. If I misunderstood, I am sorry.

I thought the actual murder weapons were destroyed. At least one firing pin (from weapon used in murders) was found in the well. After Jake confessed, he lead LE to more (weapons) evidence they concealed in concrete blocks used to anchor a goose box (for Wagner grandfather) sunk in a pond on Flying W Farm.

 

[Myland]

Jmo the murder weapons can’t be in Robin’s room and 5 gallon buckets at same time.

 

[Betty P]

I thought the actual murder weapons were destroyed. At least one firing pin (from weapon used in murders) was found in the well. After Jake confessed, he lead LE to more (weapons) evidence they concealed in concrete blocks used to anchor a goose box (for Wagner grandfather) sunk in a pond on Flying W Farm.

Right, the concrete contained the parts of the murder guns. They weren't destroyed, as BCI was able to sort out parts and test them. Pretty sure the firing pin was in the concrete in the pond. It was the cartridge case that had the unique mark from the firing pin that was found in the cistern on Peterson Rd farm.

A big question we've all been asking is when the murder guns were dismantled and sunk in the concrete anchors in the pond on FWF. It may not have been done immediately after the murders. The murder guns might have been hidden somewhere until they were ready to make that "duck box" that needed anchors. One guess is that they made the duck box sometime before Father's Day 2016. The "duck box" allegedly was a F'Day gift to Grandfather Wagner. That means the murder weapons were possibly stashed somewhere between late April 2016 and early June 2016.

 

[Myland]

I have several guns in my bedroom right now, and other parts of house, however I have never touch them. Couldn’t even tell you what kind of guns they are other than long and short. My spouse feels you can never have too many guns and I am like they are a waste of money.

 

[LMDlong]

Does anyone remember the number and letter of the case text regarding the recording from today

 

[CIA Team Member]

No, the court might be required to put a non-reflective film on whatever screen is causing the reflection, if it reflected clearly enough to identify a juror. 1 trip to Wal-Mart. 1 box of privacy film. Fixed.

Also, grand jury members are kept secret, jurors' identities are not. AMOO IANAL

I, again, watched the jurors leaving the jury box for lunch. On that one floor TV on the left.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thanks for this information, makes more sense but ringing Billy's phone only helped BCI place all 4 Wagner phones at Peterson Rd. --- In 2016 this is the only time the cell tower records show that all 4 Wagner phones were together.

They just all happened to be together that specific night, strong circumstantial evidence. Probably should have left his phone at FWF where he lived.

Could be he just forgot it at Peterson and didn't realize it until later and decided to retrieve it the next morning. Doesn't mean much as I have left my cell phone at various places and if it was late decided to get it the next morning or have whoever I left it at their house bring it the next morning.

What I found interesting in connection to AC's argument this was an enmeshed family is Angie telling Billy she wanted the boys to move out into their own houses. Also Billy refusing to come back until Jake and George were moved out. Angie asking Billy if he had found them a house yet so she could move in with him so it would be only Billy and Angie living together alone.

Also the reference to George and Jake calling them MFer's Bast***ds and monsters. He also referenced fighting with them often. Angie expressed the desire for Billy to move back in with her and for Jake and George to move out. But then she tells him she cannot move because she has to take care of BW and SW. Also when Billy said let jake take care of SW.

This occurred from Dec 2015 until 03- 2016.

These conversations between her and Billy kind of blows Ac's enmeshed all for one and one for all theory out of the water.

Sounds like Billy couldn't stand George or Jake and wanted Angie to kick them out so he could come back to her. Angie countering with Billy getting a house so she and him could live in it together.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

DBM

 

[dgfred]

That doesn't really make sense that he couldn't get a home for anybody at anytime. Heck... $150 might even be enough to rent a mobile home. Maybe both deflecting somewhat?

 

[arielilane]

Very short recap of AG LG phone records and internet searches reveal: On January 18, 2016, Google searches symptoms of sexual penetration on a toddler and trauma responses in children. On March 13, 2016, searches for Hanna May and HM friends were done by AW.

On April 27, 2016, articles about the Rhoden murders and Facebook comments viewed.

Witness: Sprinkles and pink bunnies could be used to make silencers. Judge will sustain the objection (judge agrees with the defense).

 

[dgfred]

I think it may be AW just saying things she thinks BW wants to hear. Weird for her not to want her boys after wanting to do everything for them and controlling everything they do. Sudden change?

 

[Myland]

That doesn't really make sense that he couldn't get a home for anybody at anytime. Heck... $150 might even be enough to rent a mobile home. Maybe both deflecting somewhat?

Jmo didn’t Billy say even get a camper

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Wow, interesting conversations between Billy and Angela. They wanted to take the kids and get away from their sons. Make them live their own lives.

Angela now saying Sophie says her "butt hurts". Building her case for child abuse. If there really was a problem, why didn't AW take her to the doctor?

Billy saying something about how his parents wanted to take away Jake and George when they were little kids. Interesting.

IMO this blows that Enmeshed family theory of Ac's out of the water. Billy and Angie want to get away from their son's. Wants to move into a house of their own.

Billy calling Jake and George names, referring to fighting with them ect.

Not unusual for parents to want their kids to live in their own house after they are adults. I know I certainly wanted my son to buy his own house as soon as he could. And my son wanted his two older sons to move out as soon as possible.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Wow, interesting conversations between Billy and Angela. They wanted to take the kids and get away from their sons. Make them live their own lives.

Angela now saying Sophie says her "butt hurts". Building her case for child abuse. If there really was a problem, why didn't AW take her to the doctor?

Billy saying something about how his parents wanted to take away Jake and George when they were little kids. Interesting.

I think that was Angie saying that.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

She knows the slick operators they're up against. She knows the power that's been pulling so many strings in order to set these killers free.


Who keeps murder weapons in their bedroom just to protect a family member?

Was it said one of the weapons recovered from RW's bedroom was one of the murder weapons!? I thought the only weapons associated with the R murders taljed about so far were found in the Flying W pond encased in cement?

 

[arielilane]

A few as it is time consuming.

Eveslage says she looked at an old iPhone belonging to George Wagner IV but no content. Now revisiting the text messages between George and Jake from Jake's phone.


The grandfather who got robbed is on the Carter side - Angela's father.


This is August 2016 - several months after murders.


Parker goes at Eveslage on a different text string - between Billy and Jake. Tries to get her to say it was directly related to murders, but she wants to say it is about family dynamics.


https://twitter.com/jamespilcher


On redirect - Canepa points out the family left for Alaska when Ed Carter was sick and dying and that no one, even George came back for the funeral. Everslage also says the messages with Billy and Jake was different because Billy says he was proud of his son.

Correction - BCI's Ryan Scheiderer returns to stand.


Talking about the moment when the Wagners became official suspects. Says they knew someone had shot a gun at Peterson Road that was later used to kill 5 people, plus the falsehoods from Billy.


BCI plan was to intercept the Wagners at the Canadian border on the way back from their scouting trip. Had ping orders on their phones in real time - only when they called or got texts. Not content.


Miss you, Niner! Not an easy task. Thank you for all that you do.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

What "fun" was anticipated in a motel room with BW, AW, and a small child?

I would like to know that too since the child referred to was BW and Angie was known to encourge George to have sex with Tabitha at age 13. Doesn't sound good.

JMO

 

[dgfred]

If AW really wanted them out... she would have done it. Remember she was the 'boss' and everyone followed her rules.
IMO she was saying what BW wanted to hear... that she wanted to live with him alone.

They sure stuck together afterwards regardless of some spats before the murders.