OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #76

[rsd1200]

True, they could have bought some of the guns on the list after the murders, since they didn't collect Jake's phone until over a year later. In that time Hubby could buy another safe full.

JMO

My s/o just spied another while browsing Garden & Gun in a waiting room.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't think it would do any good. Billy isn't smart enough to take a plea deal, even a good one. Remember when he forced his own attorneys to argue for him to be released on bail? Now we've heard his interview, too. State could offer him a great deal and he would fight for a trial, thinking he's innocent. Because he really doesn't think he did anything wrong.

I think the prosecution will win with GW4 and will have to scrape up the money somehow to prosecute Billy.

BIBM Sadly, I believe this to be true. I have never seen him as very bright. A lawyer can fight for your best interests but they cannot force you into anything.

 

[iridized]

The contamination claims have root in an investigative local reporter. He went to the original storage space, a company that had an empty warehouse, and found it easy to get onto the property through an ill-secured gate. The R's countless vehicles were parked on the surrounding lot but none of those are evidence. The trailers were locked up and I believe the company had hired security or security was hired by the county for that warehouse. That's what I remember about it at the time. It seemed like the reporter was making a mountain out of a molehill.

I think the company closed and the trailers were moved to a police facility.

Reader himself said he sat out there many nights guarding the property after that reporter found it easy to enter. That in itself is opening a can of worms as Reader was convicted of tampering with evidence among other charges. I think the prosecution will leave anything tied to those trailers after they were moved out of this trial.

 

[sunshineray]

I think joe meant the gun safe in the FWF home, the $20k was in CRsr's safe.

Ohhhh nevermind

 

[Cool Cats]

They had to change somewhere, too. Where better than in the dark on the back of a farm, w/o any prying eyes. One they were familiar with. Burn the clothing, stash the firearms. At some point they all lived there on Bethel, there was still a barn a concrete pad, and a pond with water in it, located there. By vehicle, about a mile off the road, with trees around.

Cool you know that. And we know for sure BCI searched Bethel.

Edward Wagner - State's Supplemental Discovery 1-21-20

Search Warrant Executed on Bethel Hill Road 11-4-19 (14 pp) Under Seal
Search Warrant Executed on FWF 11-4-19 (13 pp) Under Seal
Yes they were searching on Bethel Hill Road by Mount Etna Cemetery. This cemetery ajoins Flying W Farms. The Wagners used to live on Bethel Hill Road.

Angela Wagner
Po Box 1394/ 845 Bethel Hill Rd.
Lucasville, Ohio 45648

At this address Angela's kennel burned down with the dogs in it on December 17, 2005. She claimed it was an electrical fire. I hope this wasn't a planned arson.

WHITEPINES KENNEL -
THIS WEBSITE IS NOW DEDICATED TO THE ---

MEMORY OF OUR GIRLS, GUYS AND BABIES THAT WAS LOST IN THE ELECTRICAL FIRE IN OUR KENNEL AND NURSERY ON DEC.17, 2005.
YOU ARE DEARLY MISSED AND LOVED EACH DAY BY US, WE WILL NEVER FORGET YOU.

p://web.archive.org/web/20060221074754/http://whitepineskennel.com/

Divers return to property owned by Wagner matriarch in Rhoden murder probe

(You can see part of the Mount Etna cemetery sign here from WKRC search photo far right)

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[rsd1200]

all of this is redundant, he has previously testified the casings from scene 2 and 3 and the casings from Peterson road were fired from the same gun and it is a Walther, so instead of this constant repetition all he has to say is I examined all the weapons from the Flying W that could fire .22 caliber and none were a match to the evidence collected from scene 2 and 3 and Peterson Road, I have previously testified to the Walther being the gun

Thank you.

 

[justtrish]

That's where we differ. I think once it's entered into evidence, it's evidence. It was found and deemed to have evidentiary value.

Edit to add: Whether and how it's used is ongoing and unfinished at present.

I was thinking for that list to be hearsay, it would be person x saying on the stand I saw a gun list on the table or on a phone/electronic device and then try to talk about what was on the list, but it's never seen by anyone else.

I am thinking since it's in evidence as being found on the phone of Jake, it can be introduced just the same as text messages are or anything else that would be recovered from a device.

We don't know what it is until Jake testifies to it, but when they started finding guns that matched a list on his phone, I'm sure it raised eyebrows and one could reasonably conclude that a list of guns and then finding those guns in a location that held property of the person that created the list might be a list of weapons owned.

What is interesting is the attempt to throw off the meaning of the list. If you are innocent and know nothing about a gun list or what it means, then why does someone need to discuss it in an attempt to throw investigators off. AC says they have statements indicating he thought he was being recorded and then attempts as saying the list was a wish list. I hope we get to hear the conversations recorded! I guess it would depend on if the person they put on the stand to introduce those conversations into evidence agrees to be on video?

 

[Puzzles8]

Displaying shipping form for an optic ordered by and shipped to FW.

I had forgotten that FW is included on the Conspiracy charge.

JMO

 

[Chelly]

You have 30 tux for formals/ a person is killed at a formal you attended/ you currently have 29 tux in your closet. Hmmmm

28 tux in the closet if blood splatter appears on one you were wearing

 

[rsd1200]

Cool you know that. And we know for sure BCI searched Bethel.

Edward Wagner - State's Supplemental Discovery 1-21-20

Search Warrant Executed on Bethel Hill Road 11-4-19 (14 pp) Under Seal
Search Warrant Executed on FWF 11-4-19 (13 pp) Under Seal
Yes they were searching on Bethel Hill Road by Mount Etna Cemetery. This cemetery ajoins Flying W Farms. The Wagners used to live on Bethel Hill Road.

Angela Wagner
Po Box 1394/ 845 Bethel Hill Rd.
Lucasville, Ohio 45648

At this address Angela's kennel burned down with the dogs in it on December 17, 2005. She claimed it was an electrical fire. I hope this wasn't a planned arson.

WHITEPINES KENNEL -
THIS WEBSITE IS NOW DEDICATED TO THE ---

MEMORY OF OUR GIRLS, GUYS AND BABIES THAT WAS LOST IN THE ELECTRICAL FIRE IN OUR KENNEL AND NURSERY ON DEC.17, 2005.
YOU ARE DEARLY MISSED AND LOVED EACH DAY BY US, WE WILL NEVER FORGET YOU.

p://web.archive.org/web/20060221074754/http://whitepineskennel.com/

Divers return to property owned by Wagner matriarch in Rhoden murder probe

(You can see part of the Mount Etna cemetery sign here from WKRC search photo far right)

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  807.3 KB · Views: 9

I save everything. I might have to dig, but it's there somewhere.

2012 home there.

 

[justtrish]

So just thinking over George IV buying this gun on April 27th, 2016, just 5 days after the murder. It is also the day of Gary Rhoden's funeral where the 3 Wagner men are all photographed being present.

Was he buying it to replace a gun? I wonder who all knew he had that gun? Was it being reported yet what type of guns were used in this crime? Did someone mentioned his gun to him? Then he decided to replace it?

OR was it an attempt to see if a background check would trigger something and prevent him from buying it? Similar to how Jake was asking what Frankie's son might have saw and poking around to see what LE knew, maybe George IV was buying a gun to see if he was flagged. Not sure that this is even how it could work, but if BCI were already investigating the Wagner's (we know now they were not on their trail 5 days after the murders), would they be able to put an alert on their name that would pop up if any of them decided to buy a firearm?

It's just such interesting timing. We know they had plenty of guns already so not like they could say the murders made them fearful for their own safety and they needed a gun. They had plenty and many of various types so I'd think personal safety would be covered by what was already owned by them.

The fact it was similar to a gun used in the murders that we now know was taken apart and buried in concert.

Did he need to replace it so it wasn't suspicious for some reason because someone outside the family knew they had a gun like this. Then if a gun like that was connected to the murders and they suddenly just don't have one anymore.. might draw attention.

Just thinking out loud because I don't think that was coincidence.

 

[rsd1200]

2015 at 845 Bethel Road---Something(s) missing...

 

[Chelly]

Then you made a list of the 30 tuxes you owned and when the police asked what that list was, you said it was a list you made after the murder of tuxes you wanted buy. Getting caught in the lie makes you a conspirator because you lied.

Ah ha! My dear Watson, Twas the LIST that is the CLUE to conspiracy...Makes absolute sense.

 

[ColMustard]

I had forgotten that FW is included on the Conspiracy charge.

JMO

Come to think of it, I thought Wilson said "optic" on FW's receipt, but it may have actually been "object", because on redirect the witness talked about those identical white grips with the grim reaper on them, two pairs, being on the receipt with FW's name and address.

 

[Cool Cats]

One thing that did amuse me was the state trying so hard to convince the jury that the W had no idea they were in the crosshairs and that they sold their house and went to Alaska just because,

I would buy it if they hadn't sold up, and packed up all their possessions, the W knew they were the prime suspects, they just had no idea how much evidence they had left at the crime scenes and at their homes

Defiance Farms

The Wagner's decided to sell their Peterson Rd/Defiance Farm property in July 2016. From April 2016 until June 2016 Angela made it crystal clear from her Defiance Farm posts that she loved her farm and wanted to stay there.

They had just built a barn and a chicken coop for the 2 grandkids. They had several different animals all over the place. Angela had a huge vegetable garden, etc....

Something happened around July 2016 that scared the Wagner's off. I think this anyway. My opinion.

I believe the house went up for sale that September. In July Angela was trying to sell all her animals.

One guess I have is that the Wagner's did not understand BCI. BCI brought this huge RV into Waverly as their headquarters and said they wouldn't leave until they solved the murders. In October Reader made it clear he believed locals did it and maybe in the summer of 2016 the Wagner's were told by BCI that locals were suspected?

But something happened for Angela to give up her Defiance Farms. She said she loved it, she had nice decorations, she was proud of it.

There is no statute of limitations on murder. Wagner's didn't think this through. They thought the small "keystone" cop department in Pike County would give up and believe it was a Cartel professional hit and set it on file as a cold case.

Remember? Billy told investigators it was navy seals? He was trying to point the investigation away from locals and on to crime drug bosses. He was quick to blame it on drugs. Drug dealers did it, not locals living around there.

 

[Puzzles8]

True, they could have bought some of the guns on the list after the murders, since they didn't collect Jake's phone until over a year later. In that time Hubby could buy another safe full.

JMO

I would think there has to be time-stamp information on that picture.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I wonder if JW does not testify to the states satisfaction and the DP comes back into play how that works, as GW jury is not DP qualified so he will have to have a new trial with a jury DP qualified, JW will have to have a trial to assertain his guilt then a penalty phase, as his whole plea agreement will be thrown out so his guilty pleas will also go

how then do they proceed with AW if she fulfills her part of plea deal, her 30 years must then stand, so only JW BW and GW would have to have capital trials

I don't know how that would work. That would be a tangled mess to straighten out.

IMO I think both Jake and Angie will testify exactly to what is in their proffers. But I also think they can throw the trial. They can testify in a tone of voice to lead the jury not to believe them. Tongue in cheek so to speak. They will have fulfilled their obligation to testify truthfully but in a tone which leads the jury to believe they are lying or hiding something. This would leave the prosecution between a rock and a hard place as they cannot put the DP back in place since Jake and Angie testified according to their proffers but AC will be able to hear and see that they are making a bad impression on the jury as far as truthful testimony goes. In other words she cannot control their attitudes up on that stand. So would she call a halt to their testimony?

IMO that already happened in the testimony of both Sam and Tabitha. Sam's testimony got out of AC's control in direct when she kept saying Jake always blamed everything he did on George. She said it several times. AC tried to rehabilitate Sam's testimony by getting to her say Jake was honest. IMO it was too late because if I was on that jury I would be thinking how could he be that honest when he lied all the time about what he did? That was damaging to the prosecution if they hoped to portray Jake as being truthful. I think when she tried to rehabilitate Sam's testimony by asking her directly if Jake was honest she caused that to stick in the jurors minds. Tabitha's testimony was a hot mess. I didn't find much of it believable since she recanted most of her testimony on cross exam and AC could not rehabilitate it. Plus both women hated Angie dumped a truck load of dirt on her.

But as far as Angie goes she can only testify to what went on before they walked out the door that night. Since AC said they changed clothes in the barn after they left the house Angie cannot even testify to what George was wearing. That also leaves wide open that George could have stayed in the barn or he could have gotten out of the vehicle prior to arriving to the murder scenes and walked somewhere else. Angie cannot testify to what happened at the murder scenes unless she was there. Jake telling her later is hearsay.

I just think getting two pathological liars to tell the whole truth is going to be akin to a magic act for AC. Then you got Billy. What if he suddenly decides to confess and plead guilty and says it was only him and Jake at the scenes and only him, Jake and Angie planned the whole thing while George was at FWF or a friends house or working?

It all could turn into a cluster frick for AC to try to straighten out and clean up.

JMO

 

[Chelly]

I was on one and so was my s/o. We both followed the rules and both admitted after, that we went in with sort of preconceived notions at the onset. We were both quite wrong upon closure. My group of jurors, I'd thought would fight my stance, (they'd actually brought the trial to our county court for a fair hearing), but all were like, let's vote and end this. We all voted alike, with the exception of one, who wanted clarification on an item and then joined the rest of us. My s/o and I both knew the second person. We spoke zip about the trial til it was over. After seeing the evidence, my s/o was shocked and had to vote with the evidence as did the others on the jury. I was not shocked, but was saddened.

Thanks for sharing your jury experience. Sitting on a jury is an adventure and not easy. The third jury for me was a case of domestic abuse and not in the usual sense. The wife was the abuser of the husband. And yes, the ending can be very sad and often unforgettable.

 

[Puzzles8]

Me

Me too. Before the trial I was certain all 4 were guilty, but now I don't know. And we haven't even got to defense's turn yet. I guess that is the purpose of a trial. To rule out all the rumors and gossip and focus only on provable facts.

JMO

So did I.

But I'm still certain they are all guilty on the Conspiracy charge.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

They should both plea out... obviously they were involved. I don't see any valid strategy except to confuse, deflect and hope 1 juror is out of their mind.

Save much money... but maybe that is what BW and GW are hoping. Lack of money.

I think it's more of the family code thing. We voted, we stick together. The other two can take their plea deals and shove off. If they can they'd likely try to screw them out of those plea deals. They broke the table vote code.