OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #78

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  • #581
Knowing AW's off-the-wall controlling nature, I can imagine her as needing to be one of the shooters, needing to be part of the action.

We do have a woman's Georgia Boot and womens boot tread in discovery that has not come up. If she changed her mind, when and why? These items seem to imply that she at one time planned to be there IMO.


 
  • #582
I'd have to have more than the shoe print, but we know that there was an SKS listed under GW4's name, on JW's wish list Even though, it's not putting him at the site, and is not proof positive he was there. Combined with that though, if I had to go by what I know so far, CN's testimony would tip me over the edge if I had to make a call, this moment, based on what we've seen so far. He's known him longer than anyone, with the exception of his brother and parents, and I'd say that he knows him better, on a personal level. His entire testimony showed that GW4 was physically capable of grunt work, and, that he was an excellent shot. Skilled at hunting, and patient. Willing to sit in a tree, and wait for a deer to come by, if it took all day. If it wasn't the right deer, willing to wait for the the right deer. I think he's the only one out of the four who could stand on their own, but he may very well have been the only one with the intelligence and patience for parts of this. JM2

Edit: Not to mention, he'd not wish to share a space with G4 again. CN knows in his heart. He just wants a jury to say so. Again, jm2

Not to mention, he'd not wish to share a space with G4 again.
BBM
CN said he loved George like a brother still. He did not say he would not let him in his house again. He said "That would be close." I take that to mean it depends on whether George is found guilty or not guilty. If GW is found not guilty, him and CN will be hunting together a week after the trial is over and cursing Jake and Angie every second of it.

JMO
 
  • #583
Jake was skilled with guns also. Jake was a truck driver used to loading and unloading semis. Had to have strong arms and shoulders to do that. Strong enough to handle the recoil on an SKS 30. cal rifle.

Know who wasn't strong enough to handle the recoil?

Angela Wagner.
But she was able to put those 5 bullets in Dana's head and she did.

JMO

Recoil on the 7.62 is about equal to a 30-30 win.

A 30-30 win rifle weighs about 2lbs less than the SKS rifle, so felt recoil on the SKS will be less than the 30-30win, and the 30-30 recoil isn't much.

The heavier the gun, the less felt recoil.
 
  • #584
You really think that AC and the other prosecutors would let AW get away with that if they thought, after all the investigations, that she'd been at and participated at any of the scenes that night? I don't No way, No how.
AJMO
Maybe AC and other prosecutors did have suspicions that AW was a shooter. But decided prosecuting her would not play well in front of the jury .
 
  • #585
We do have a woman's Georgia Boot and womens boot tread in discovery that has not come up. If she changed her mind, when and why? These items seem to imply that she at one time planned to be there IMO.


Angie was there. She was the one firing that SKS . 30 cal. She couldn't handle the recoil on that rifle. That's why the shots from that rifle hit the porch rail, packaged flooring on the porch, the door jam, the stereo, the wall to an adjoining bedroom and finally accidently hit Chris in the arm.

George was a skilled hunter. It was his gun. But yet he couldn't hit anything with it? Too far fetched to believe he couldn't aim and shoot with his own gun.

JMO
 
  • #586
You really think that AC and the other prosecutors would let AW get away with that if they thought, after all the investigations, that she'd been at and participated at any of the scenes that night? I don't No way, No how.
AJMO
Jmo the prosecutors are human and can at times get like others do when they get so involved in cases they don’t always see what is right in front of their eyes. Example the accountant was extremely skilled but got so focused on the name George and evidence didn’t even notice the date of birth on that bank account. He didn’t do it intentionally, but in all his education and experience he overlooked a very big detail on that account. Something so simple as a date. Jmo
 
  • #587
We do have a woman's Georgia Boot and womens boot tread in discovery that has not come up. If she changed her mind, when and why? These items seem to imply that she at one time planned to be there IMO.


I think she decided to wear the 10 1/2 men's boot deciding it was more appropriate than girly shoes.
 
  • #588
BCI had BJM's shoes right off the bat.
Yes, they took all kinds of samples, etc. from the Manleys. Hair, DNA, clothes, shoes, cell phones, James Manley's truck everything. They also submitted them to multiple lie-detector tests.
Jmo but I am in no way implying Leonard (I don’t event know if L went in there) did anything wrong or anyone else that may have went in there, but when the young Manley went into F trailer not having a clue as to what happened in my mind that told me the scene was not secure at one point. I am sure there so much emotion going on that morning and not blaming anyone and the print probably wasn’t from anyone but the killers. But probably for me isn’t putting the shoes on George’s feet. Jmo
BCI took and checked everything James wore, too. Also fingerprints, DNA, etc. The BCI agents who processed the crime scenes, who testified at the beginning of the trial testified about this. They have strict procedures to gather evidence and clear people who were at the crime scenes.
 
  • #589
Angie was there. She was the one firing that SKS . 30 cal. She couldn't handle the recoil on that rifle. That's why the shots from that rifle hit the porch rail, packaged flooring on the porch, the door jam, the stereo, the wall to an adjoining bedroom and finally accidently hit Chris in the arm.

George was a skilled hunter. It was his gun. But yet he couldn't hit anything with it? Too far fetched to believe he couldn't aim and shoot with his own gun.

JMO

<modsnip>

I don't see them shooting all those rounds at home and not test firing the new filter silencer on the SKS. They didn't just slap it on there and call it good, especially since one already blew up. IMO moo aats.
 
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  • #590
Recoil on the 7.62 is about equal to a 30-30 win.

A 30-30 win rifle weighs about 2lbs less than the SKS rifle, so felt recoil on the SKS will be less than the 30-30win, and the 30-30 recoil isn't much.

The heavier the gun, the less felt recoil.
Think what you want, but whoever was shooting that SKS was shooting wild all over the place. Matt White outlined where the shots went that were from the SKS today. The porch rail. #15, the package of flooring on the porch # 14. The door jam # 26 The stereo # 25 & 38, the wall of the adjoining bedroom # 42.

Just doesn't sound like a skilled hunter shooting his own gun does it? And CN made very clear that George was a very skilled hunter and a great shot. Let's see, how did CN put that? "5 times the hunter I will ever be." Yes that is it.

But George couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his own rifle?

Jake was skilled with guns also and hunted with CN and George.

Angie was shooting that SKS .30 cal rifle and it was too much for her so the recoil was causing the shots to go up and sideways.

But everyone to their own opinion is what I always say.

JMO
 
  • #591
In AC's opening statement she said, via information from Jake's proffer, that GWIV didn't shoot when CRSR came to the door. He couldn't see over the oil filter. Jake took the weapon and fired it himself. I suppose we shall see if he sticks to that chain of events when he testifies.
I recall the testimony that those silencers can be heavy and cause the trajectory to be off. Add in the distance they were shooting from (not up close like 2-5 feet, but much further), it's easy to see how bullets could be off even for the best shooter. It's dark, they are "hidden" somewhat, using a rifle with a heavy silencer on the end that not only makes the gun heavier, but the bullet will be off. I can see how bullets missed and one hit Chris's arm vs center mass or his head.
 
  • #592
Recoil on the 7.62 is about equal to a 30-30 win.

A 30-30 win rifle weighs about 2lbs less than the SKS rifle, so felt recoil on the SKS will be less than the 30-30win, and the 30-30 recoil isn't much.

The heavier the gun, the less felt recoil.
Try telling that to a woman who has shot a 20 gauge and got knocked on her behind. I had a bruise on my shoulder for a week from firing a 30-30 one time.

JMo
 
  • #593
Serious question: If prosecution had suspicions and even some evidence, would they have prosecuted her at trial?
 
  • #594
Angie was there. She was the one firing that SKS . 30 cal. She couldn't handle the recoil on that rifle. That's why the shots from that rifle hit the porch rail, packaged flooring on the porch, the door jam, the stereo, the wall to an adjoining bedroom and finally accidently hit Chris in the arm.

George was a skilled hunter. It was his gun. But yet he couldn't hit anything with it? Too far fetched to believe he couldn't aim and shoot with his own gun.

JMO
I’ll play for a minute. Where was George? Keeping the kids?
 
  • #595
Think what you want, but whoever was shooting that SKS was shooting wild all over the place. Matt White outlined where the shots went that were from the SKS today. The porch rail. #15, the package of flooring on the porch # 14. The door jam # 26 The stereo # 25 & 38, the wall of the adjoining bedroom # 42.

Just doesn't sound like a skilled hunter shooting his own gun does it? And CN made very clear that George was a very skilled hunter and a great shot. Let's see, how did CN put that? "5 times the hunter I will ever be." Yes that is it.

But George couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his own rifle?

Jake was skilled with guns also and hunted with CN and George.

Angie was shooting that SKS .30 cal rifle and it was too much for her so the recoil was causing the shots to go up and sideways.

But everyone to their own opinion is what I always say.

JMO

There's a thing with rapid fire called muzzle rise which can account for the wild shots. The SKS shooter began unloading at the door. Hunters aren't accustomed to emptying the magazine when hunting game.
 
  • #596
Will AW and JW be wearing civilian, clothes? Or those eye-catching orange suits. They both are now confessed criminals, and I think they should be brought into court with leg irons and cuffs.

I still think everyone with a remote should go to the court house, and see if they could set GW4 vest off.
I went through a junk drawer today and found 3 remotes for godknowswhat. Maybe one of those will work?
 
  • #597
Yes, they took all kinds of samples, etc. from the Manleys. Hair, DNA, clothes, shoes, cell phones, James Manley's truck everything. They also submitted them to multiple lie-detector tests.

BCI took and checked everything James wore, too. Also fingerprints, DNA, etc. The BCI agents who processed the crime scenes, who testified at the beginning of the trial testified about this. They have strict procedures to gather evidence and clear people who were at the crime scenes.
What time did bci get there? Did you write down the time the first agent got on scene? I just wonder cause it took about 2 hours to get to pike county and they met at piketon police department then started heading out.I am sure they testified to exact time the first one arrived at scene but I don’t remember what time that was. I also thought before trial they went directly to scene, but each one said they stopped first at Piketon.
 
  • #598
You really think that AC and the other prosecutors would let AW get away with that if they thought, after all the investigations, that she'd been at and participated at any of the scenes that night? I don't No way, No how.
AJMO
This sums it up! This investigation went on for 2 1/2 years, they haven't played all the recordings yet and the ones AC says are most damning to George are still to come, so things still to come could very well implicate specific people doing specific things. I think they took their time with this investigation and if the prosecution felt any other scenario was possible they would not have given Angela the deal. I am sure some details can be interchanged between the 4 of them and it doesn't really matter. They operated together and committed these acts, then it really doesn't change much in my mind if xx bought this item or used that account and not this account. The statements the 2 that confessed gave must have matched enough of what they had that they agreed to a deal. No way they take this to trial if they really believe George had no part at all. If he had any part he is guilty on all charges. That is the bottom line.
 
  • #599
BW may or may not have "broke" his back but I think it's probably safe to say he suffered from back pain. Or at minimum, he claimed he did. Billy claimed a lot of things.

Does it really matter who MOVED the bodies? IMO, all that matters is the jury believes WHO WAS INSIDE CR’s HOUSE. Whoever was in the house was a party to the murders. Full stop.

As of now, all we (and the jury) have is shoe print evidence plus what we heard in opening statements as to who the prosecution believes was in the house: BW, JW, and GW.

Maybe the state can't physically put GW's foot in those shoes, inside CR's house but what they HAVE shown is 1) the footprints matched the sku # of the shoes on the receipt, the receipt found in W-4 family possessions, 2) the receipt matched the video placing Angela at Wal-Mart making the purchase and 3) that video (plus AW's statement during questioning in Montana) placed GW & JW in the vehicle, in the Wal-Mart parking lot, when Angela made the purchase.

Yes, the shoe print is circumstantial evidence but it's pretty darn solid circumstantial evidence nonetheless.

MOO.
Anyone who has ever had any thing to do with horses knows that Billy did not have a broken back. He was arrested in KY hauling a horse to the vet. If you have hold of the reins of a horse and something spooks the horse, a dog, a car, or whatever and that horse rears up with you holding it's reins if you had a broken back you would be rolling on the ground in serious pain.

And in court it was said Billy was lifting his father in and out of bed.

<modsnip>

JMO
 
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  • #600
Jmo but the accountant and the state proved today that Angela and Jake bought the items
Yes they did. <modsnip>

JMO
 
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