OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #78

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  • #961
I agree with your most recent posts. Your narrative is spot on. You articulate exactly how I’ve felt for awhile now. You had the guts to post it. No doubt that AW wanted to be there to personally put the bullets into DR…AW hated DR.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts so intelligently. Additionally, I patiently wait to see what the prosecution comes up with concerning GW4. My 2 cents, there is not a W that will ever disclose AW’s involvement, with the exception of BW, which is debatable.

BW broken back, there is a pic on internet of BW on motorcycle in AK. Yeah, broken back…

All of this is in IMO.

Stay well, Raisin.
You had the guts to post it.
BBM

Well I come from a tribe who's warriors were among the most fearless in North America. Guess I got that honestly. lol

<Modsnip>


JMO
 
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  • #962
Someone who CN testified was as big as CN could not climb through a trailer window, or move easily down the hallway of a trailer house dragging a body. Big as CN was if he had his arms under a dead persons arms or holding the feet, dragging the deceased, his arms and shoulders would have been wider than the hallway.

Plus we do not know how narrow the hallway going into Hannahs room was.

All I can think of.

JMO
I think earlier they tried to imply G4 was too big to fit through the hallway in Csr's trailer and move Csr's and GR's bodies to the bedroom.
But Billy could?

CR & FR both managed to maneuver through those same narrow hallways every day. As if they never moved mattresses and furniture up & down those halls? These were not small men, maybe not tall, but they certainly weren't small.

Couldn't fit down the hall to drag a body? That's some desperation right there.
 
  • #963
Another thought is Billy was in the house at this point with both victims so I would think George or Jake would also be nervous trying to hit Chris Sr, but miss Billy.
The way Billy felt about them? When I saw that bullet in the door jam I thought whoever was shooting was trying to hit Billy in the head.

JMO
 
  • #964
Since you're here: Are we allowed to use information, etc from the Topix site since it's been mentioned a few times and elaborated on what it is in court and on the court records?
TIA
Topix can be referenced only as presented by evidence in court.
Topix conversations, activities, etc are not permitted unless a conversation is specifically admitted into evidence and linkable via a court exhibit.

Bottom line: WS will not permit bringing over rumors or speculation from any website or chat room.
 
  • #965
If AW was at the crime scene, I wonder who stayed home with the kids?

RN? I don't know tbh. I feel as though I'm on a seesaw the longer this goes on. On one hand I think AW was at home, sending out the men to do her bidding. On the other hand I think she could have had those 'old man' trainers on her feet. Could she trust those men to do the job correctly?

im going to have to spend the weekend going over again the information we now have and get off this seesaw!

What a great job Beth did facing defence. She wasn't going to be led or intimidated. Spoke clearly and strongly and imo she was telling the truth.
 
  • #966
I think earlier they tried to imply G4 was too big to fit through the hallway in Csr's trailer and move Csr's and GR's bodies to the bedroom.

That may be the answer to the attempt with this angle.
Thanks
 
  • #967
I don't think it's helpful to ask what makes "sense" here. These are mass murderers who left forged documents and receipts and left ammunition casings tied to the murder weapons behind. They are poorly educated, psychopathic, criminally inclined and feel entitled to control the lives of other people. They took Bulvine from his mother. They killed Hanna to have control of her child. They don't think like normal people do. Murder is not a response to only having 50/50 custody. These people aren't like us. They are wired differently and habituated to criming.

They took steps to avoid being caught and those steps delayed both arrest and prosecution. As someone said here recently, they counted on (1) their efforts to hide their guilt (hey, let's turn up at the funeral home with bruises and died hair); (2) the high standing of their family that let them get away with many major crimes like arson and insurance fraud; (3) and the limitations of local law enforcement. They counted on throwing blame at some "cartel." They reckoned without Sheriff Reeder's smart assessment of local involvement and whatever impelled at the time AG DeWine to solve this csae. They thought that once again there would be no consequences. And as we know they planned, the one who didn't get arrested would kill their enemies, break them out of jail, yada yada yada.

The problem is the death penalty--not just dying but years in isolation on death row. Taking a plea gives Angela hope of getting out. Jake sacrificed himself to try to save George but even he is smart enough to take the DP off the table for everyone. They veer off from their proffers and they will be on trial themselves with the DP back on the table. They don't understand conspiracy or aggravated murder and aggravated burglary and how likely it is that George will be found guilty too. Hey, we have our own worries that a jury won't understand. So Jake saying G4 didn't shoot anybody is their big play.

Edited to clean up typos. Sorry!
BBM

Did you catch Beth's testimony that Chris N and George said that? That they would build a bulldozer big enough to smash in the side of a prison and free everyone. I laughed out loud on that one.

So do you think Chris N was in on the conspiracy and murders? He was in on building a bulldozer and breaking everyone out of prison. Or maybe it is like Beth testified, George is a blowhard, and was just blowing off stream, along with Chris N.

I for one found Beth to be very honest and believable versus Jake and Angie who are pathological liars.

JMO
 
  • #968
I don't think it's helpful to ask what makes "sense" here. These are mass murderers who left forged documents and receipts and left ammunition casings tied to the murder weapons behind. They are poorly educated, psychopathic, criminally inclined and feel entitled to control the lives of other people. They took Bulvine from his mother. They killed Hanna to have control of her child. They don't think like normal people do. Murder is not a response to only having 50/50 custody. These people aren't like us. They are wired differently and habituated to criming.

They took steps to avoid being caught and those steps delayed both arrest and prosecution. As someone said here recently, they counted on (1) their efforts to hide their guilt (hey, let's turn up at the funeral home with bruises and died hair); (2) the high standing of their family that let them get away with many major crimes like arson and insurance fraud; (3) and the limitations of local law enforcement. They counted on throwing blame at some "cartel." They reckoned without Sheriff Reeder's smart assessment of local involvement and whatever impelled at the time AG DeWine to solve this csae. They thought that once again there would be no consequences. And as we know they planned, the one who didn't get arrested would kill their enemies, break them out of jail, yada yada yada.

The problem is the death penalty--not just dying but years in isolation on death row. Taking a plea gives Angela hope of getting out. Jake sacrificed himself to try to save George but even he is smart enough to take the DP off the table for everyone. They veer off from their proffers and they will be on trial themselves with the DP back on the table. They don't understand conspiracy or aggravated murder and aggravated burglary and how likely it is that George will be found guilty too. Hey, we have our own worries that a jury won't understand. So Jake saying G4 didn't shoot anybody is their big play.

Edited to clean up typos. Sorry!
Jake sacrificed himself

Yeah Jake is a real sweetheart like that. LMAO

JMO
 
  • #969
as per my long post explaining my thoughts, I have moved from AW staying at home to her being at the crime scenes and maybe killing some of the victims, I don't know if she was there, same as I don't know if BW or GW were there, but out of all the witnesses we have heard from and the constant use of the word controlling in relation to her I think there is a possibility that she could not leave anything to chance, and so she went along to ensure the job was done to her satisfaction IMO
Gw4 knew right from wrong. He ventured out at night often. He could’ve gone to LE and told them beforehand of the planned murders but he didn’t. He could’ve gone and told them of Elizabeth’s life being threatened, but didn’t. Chicken s€\¥¥
 
  • #970
Nash did. He & GW both broke out in a big smile as she said it & shared a chuckle.
Names for people like that but can’t say it hear
 
  • #971
RN? I don't know tbh. I feel as though I'm on a seesaw the longer this goes on. On one hand I think AW was at home, sending out the men to do her bidding. On the other hand I think she could have had those 'old man' trainers on her feet. Could she trust those men to do the job correctly?

im going to have to spend the weekend going over again the information we now have and get off this seesaw!

What a great job Beth did facing defence. She wasn't going to be led or intimidated. Spoke clearly and strongly and imo she was telling the truth.
So, I thought that there was one call or text that went out close to the time of the murders from the peterson road cell tower. I might be mistaken as I can not find it. It does not make any of them less guilty. If they knew about it ahead of time, help plan it, performed any act during the murders, and covered it up they are just as guilty.

I say that and during testimony today I heard FW was present at one of the meetings. Unfortunately, I had other obligations and do not know what the discussion of the meeting was. If it was anything were she knew about the murders....she needs arrested and charged appropriately.
 
  • #972
So, I thought that there was one call or text that went out close to the time of the murders from the peterson road cell tower. I might be mistaken as I can not find it. It does not make any of them less guilty. If they knew about it ahead of time, help plan it, performed any act during the murders, and covered it up they are just as guilty.

I say that and during testimony today I heard FW was present at one of the meetings. Unfortunately, I had other obligations and do not know what the discussion of the meeting was. If it was anything were she knew about the murders....she needs arrested and charged appropriately.

Yes FW was present as was RN, so I heard. We already know that RN had lied by saying it was she who notorised those custody documents only to have a change of heart and told court that it was in fact her daughter AW who did it. So RN knows more than what she lets on, as she was present at one meeting (at least).
 
  • #973
Thinking through the notion presented of AW being present.

I remain on the fence. If she was there, I'm still not sure she was the one that made the foot print. I as well could see her giving the children a dose of Benadryl for the evening.

I feel she planned to go. She did research women's tactical boot's. Did she go through with it or stay behind? I remain unsure.

Angela is 5'3 according to her booking info. I am unsure what her shoe size may be, but my suspicion would be the shoes are too big for her. To consider her stuffing her shoes is an interesting path, and I appreciate it being brought forward for consideration. It does seem to come with some potential faults as I attempt to visualize it through my own filters.

Loose stuffed shoes and body dragging are what give me pause. I have trouble imagining someone with stuffed shoes, or shoes not fitting snuggly dragging a body without slipping, or slipping out of the shoe.

I am open minded on AW but I can't visualize her in larger shoes dragging bodies and not leaving additional foot prints or stumble steps in the process.

So, IMO, maybe she was there. I don't feel that means it was still not George that made the shoe print and wore the shoes she purchased for him.

All IMO
 
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  • #974
this was all post the murders, she was JW wife not GW wife, and all her testimony that relates to GW was he lived in the home with his mother and brother and their children, as much under the influence of his mother as any of them, he did nothing overtly nasty to her,

it seems that AW had convinced her sons that she and she alone would be able to protect their children, and so she continued to manipulate them into thinking any new woman that came into the family was just like the previous ones, I think she possibly enjoyed destroying her sons attempts at happiness,

and each time the ties that bound her sons to her got tighter with each woman she convinced them was attempting to harm their children, and once she got rid of them, she had her sons and GK to herself,

I expect after a while her sons possibly chafed at living under her control and so she would engineer something that made her boys fearful of what may happen to their children, and AW once again ensured her boys stayed with her as only, she could protect the children

as Beth said AW made a bad marriage, and it had been over for years, BW wasn't even living at Bethel Hill he always chose to live at Flying W, so all AW had to pay for her were her two sons, and all she wanted was her grandchildren, and IMO she did everything she could maintain the status quo
Or the life insurance she could get off them. I firmly believe that had Mike DeWine not put out that laser focused statement George would have been a dead man. Angie was not paying out all that life insurance money for nothing. Mike DeWine and BCI saved George's life IMO.

JMO
 
  • #975
Whatever it is about his weight is what they seem to be waiting to use as key defense. They have asked every witness about his weight.

-I don't recall clothing mentioned
-shoes
-could it be medication related? Example: take the angle of George was on XYZ causing weight gain due to his own mental trauma and duress

What are the other options?
The truck bed he supposedly squeezed into. IMO.
 
  • #976
I try to remember the jurors have little to no information on this case. We know much more than will be presented in this trial. We all came here biased, in one way or another. So, with that thinking I went into this trial trying to think that way. Personally, just my useless 2 cents here, prosecution has not convinced me George participated. But I KNOW he was involved because I/we know so much more than the jurors will ever know. Of course we want them convicted. I'm waiting this "evidence" to prove AC's comment of "we didn't need them (JW and AW) as we have enough evidence to convict them." (I can't recall where I heard/saw that particular comment.)

JMO/useless 2 cents

The State's Case does not rest on Jake's testimony. They had enough evidence to tie George into Complicity, the murder Conspiracy - way before his arrest.

In this Motion and the last several Motions the defendant wants the court and community to believe that the State's entire Case hinges on Jake Wagner and that's just not true.

The State had a powerful and strong Case against the Wagner clan both collectively and individually before the State even indicted them, well before we got to this point. Well before Jake and Angela decided to cooperate and give us their testimony.

What did their proffers really do for the State? The proffers help us to rule out those initial suspects, other suspects, bogus suspects that somebody else did it. It erased "who done it." When Jake came in and he sat down with us and he told us what happened it absolutely erased the "who done it" defense.

They gave us some Motions (regarding other suspects) and at one point they wanted to dispose a witness to give us possible Cartel connections. So when Jake came forward it ruled out Cartel, dirty sheriff, fight retaliation Chris Jr had been in, all their other suspect defenses were gone.

So let's talk about the evidence they had before Jake and Angela's proffer. Found piece after piece of the Wagner's involvement.

Child custody, doing exact same thing to George's son, 3 guns used, Angela Wagner's laptop gun list including all 3 guns used in the murders including an SKS 7.62 listed for George, they never recovered those guns during the searches, shoe receipt that matched shoe prints found at scenes, 22 caliber shell casings on their property matching ones from crime scenes, first time in 2016 all Wagner phones are together, George made incriminating statements caught on listening devices, murder kit purchases, suppressor in cistern, etc...

The proffers are direct evidence but there is alot of circumstantial evidence. All the evidence collected made the State free to argue a Complicity theory against George, enough to give George his Murder Conspiracy indictment charge.

Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part the other doing the other part then each is responsible for the whole.

The defendant doesn't seem to get that - he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime.

The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.

16:22 time stamp.
 
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  • #977
Names for people like that but can’t say it hear
But you know what, Teresa? Her testimony was FLAWLESS! The defense brought up and tried to insinuate she had a medical condition that affected her memory. But she was FLAWLESS! And the jury knows it.

Who's laughing now?
 
  • #978
Thinking through the notion presented of AW being present.

I remain on the fence. If she was there, I'm still not sure she was the one that made the foot print. I as well could see her giving the children a dose of Benadryl for the evening.

I feel she planned to go. She did research women's tactical boot's. Did she go through with it or stay behind? I remain unsure.

Angela is 5'3 according to her booking info. I am unsure what her shoe size may be, but my suspicion would be the shoes are too big for her. To consider her stuffing her shoes is an interesting path, and I appreciate it being brought forward for consideration. It does seem to come with some potential faults as I attempt to visualize it through my own filters.

Loose stuffed shoes and body dragging are what give me pause. I have trouble imagining someone with stuffed shoes, or shoes not fitting snuggly dragging a body without slipping, or slipping out of the shoe.

I am open minded on AW but I can't visualize her in larger shoes dragging bodies and not leaving additional foot prints or stumble steps in the process.

So, IMO, maybe she was there. I don't feel that means it was still not George that made the shoe print and wore the shoes she purchased for him.

All IMO
I just had another thought. Say 2 people stepped in blood and then left bloody shoe prints. Same blood, same shoes but 1 person weighs considerably more than the other. Will the weight difference affect the bloody shoe print? I think it would. Will defense try to say the shoe prints were made by someone who weighed less than G4 did at that time?
 
  • #979
If GW4 goes free, how long will it be until he tries a revenge on the people he said it would be or build the bulletproof bulldozer for the break out from prison
That bulldozer building caused me to laugh out loud.

I think if George walks, he will make an agreement with Tabby to see his son, (honestly I think Tabby would go back to him in a heartbeat.) then run to AK. It has been said he really liked it up there.

JMO
 
  • #980
Yes, on the Law and Crime chat, someone said EFW had been molested as a child? Did I miss that?
Beth said two of her brothers molested her when she was a child. Beginning of her testimony.

JMO
 
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