OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #78

[pittsburghgirl]

Jake sacrificed himself

Yeah Jake is a real sweetheart like that. LMAO

JMO

In no way am I implying that Jake Wagner, mass murderer, is a sweetheart. I said that by confessing to shooting 5, he sacrificed himself to keep the family off death row.

 

[Antimony]

Was there any testimony as to how many times the SKS was fired?

 

[Betty P]

I haven't followed any other conspiracy type trials this closely so I admit my understanding of this is more limited.

I get the feeling they have to go broad to include everything for all of them because the crimes they committed individually are ALL included and combined to equal the larger conspiracy charge. What one does means all have done (in the eyes of the law) so they have to show it all. They have to give the background on all, the details of Hannah and Jake because that was the motive and even thought George wasn't in that relationship, he was part of the conspiracy to commit the murders and the motive is super important.

Respectfully, BBM for emphasis

Very good points.

This has to be repeated occasionally in this thread. I'm no expert, but it's probably one of the most difficult kind of trials for a prosecutor to present.

 

[rsd1200]

I have the same visceral feelings I had then--that I'm seeing a trauma victim. And it's worth remembering that when she hears Wagners telling her they will hang her in the barn, beat her to death with a barbed-wire wrapped baseball bat, bulldoze the barn, and kill her whole family, she KNOWS that Hanna and her family are dead, all 8 of them, including Hannah Hazel Gilley. She KNOWS that Sophia's mom was murdered.

Still catching up but honestly, I've rewound EA's testimony quite a lot. A Norman Reedus/The Walking Dead reference. Many may know, but if someone out there may not, the bat was named Lucille, and was wrapped in barbed wire. It belonged to the character, Negan (a psycho) on TWD. In the first season that we see Negan, he chooses who to kill, based on a rhyme. It lands on Darryl (Norman Reedus), instead, he beats another popular character to death with the bat. Later, Negan and Daryl would become friends. Probably meant nothing but when she said it, it made me thankful she left.

Before I forget this; I remember EW stating that JW had told her that one day she might get to join them at the "table meetings". If I heard and understood correctly, JW had said that when they trusted EA completely, that she would probably be permitted a seat at the table. So, they also decide, periodically, who makes decisions at the table. In other words, each person gets to be head of the table, for a time period. OMG! I wonder who was head of the table when they made they decided to murder 8 people? I seem to remember something about AW asking JW, are you sure you want to do this?

Start of Table Meetings

 

[Betty P]

If GW4 goes free, how long will it be until he tries a revenge on the people he said it would be or build the bulletproof bulldozer for the break out from prison

He won't. Many of the locals on the jury probably know of him and his family. They're familiar with the massacre and his role in it. They probably don't want him back living among them for a very long time.

 

[justtrish]

Still catching up but honestly, I've rewound EA's testimony quite a lot. A Norman Reedus/The Walking Dead reference. Many may know, but if someone out there may not, the bat was named Lucille, and was wrapped in barbed wire. It belonged to the character, Negan (a psycho) on TWD. In the first season that we see Negan, he chooses who to kill, based on a rhyme. It lands on Darryl (Norman Reedus), instead, he beats another popular character to death with the bat. Later, Negan and Daryl would become friends. Probably meant nothing but when she said it, it made me thankful she left.

Before I forget this; I remember EW stating that JW had told her that one day she might get to join them at the "table meetings". If I heard and understood correctly, JW had said that when they trusted EA completely, that she would probably be permitted a seat at the table. So, they also decide, periodically, who makes decisions at the table. In other words, each person gets to be head of the table, for a time period. OMG! I wonder who was head of the table when they made they decided to murder 8 people? I seem to remember something about AW asking JW, are you sure you want to do this?

Start of Table Meetings

She testified that Angela was "head" during the time she lived with them, which was 14 weeks.

 

[Betty P]

She testified that Angela was "head" during the time she lived with them, which was 14 weeks.

I just read that part in Niner's notes from James Pilcher. That's bizarre, a strange way for a family to operate. They really were extremely enmeshed. Very cult-like.

 

[Puzzles8]

That bulldozer building caused me to laugh out loud.

I think if George walks, he will make an agreement with Tabby to see his son, (honestly I think Tabby would go back to him in a heartbeat.) then run to AK. It has been said he really liked it up there.

JMO

I am just trying to envision this....

They create a 'bulletproof' bulldozer. Then they causally pull it up to the prison and unload it. It then travels to the prison wall (unnoticed) and they ram the prison wall in.

Then the bulletproof bulldozer escapes at breakneck speed (25 mph max?)to a waiting get away car.

But let us not forget they were planning on injuring DeWine and BCI agents by creating their own custom electronic device.

You just can't write this stuff.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

In no way am I implying that Jake Wagner, mass murderer, is a sweetheart. I said that by confessing to shooting 5, he sacrificed himself to keep the family off death row.

There was discussion of that during the pretrial hearing in which he confessed and agreed to the plea deal. It was something the prosecution agreed to because it wasn't ethical to ask a defendant to confess and give testimony about capital crimes when his co-conspirators were his family. Jake was willing to tell the state everything, but he didn't want to cause his family to be executed as a result. He wasn't a hero, he is still a terrible person who committed horrific crimes. But he came to terms with it and was willing to help the prosecution. He should still be locked up for life.JMO

 

[abeaman02]

I'm still behind some but I just wanted to comment that I'm feeling like EA's testimony, to me, is like she's channeling what HR went through. It's such a strong feeling she gives that it makes it crystal clear, to me, in understanding so much better what HR's life was when she was a so very young mother living in this madness. Those are only my thoughts at this moment but I can't help but wonder if any on the jury are feeling the same.
AJMO

I feel like she is speaking what Hannah could not. It is almost like she is her angel, saying what was unsaid

 

[Chingaling]

My opinion only but I think FW will face charges unrelated to the murders…

She was also harboring a fugitive accountant too

 

[KentuckyMama]

Wasn't there an evidence collector that worked the crime scene in CRSR and FR trailer that was on early in the trial? He was a very large man. As big or bigger than the W men. The point was made by AC that he made his way throughout with no trouble moving through doors or hallways and size was not an issue for him. I think he even helped move the body out.

Does anyone remember that? Miss Cat? You are the go-to for me to get info. Does that sound at all familiar?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

If AW was at the crime scene, I wonder who stayed home with the kids?

Who knows, maybe George had a little too much to drink and passed out. lol CN claimed he could out drink George but that could be up in the air.

JMO

 

[Tillicum]

Wasn't there an evidence collector that worked the crime scene in CRSR and FR trailer that was on early in the trial? He was a very large man. As big or bigger than the W men. The point was made by AC that he made his way throughout with no trouble moving through doors or hallways and size was not an issue for him. I think he even helped move the body out.

Does anyone remember that? Miss Cat? You are the go-to for me to get info. Does that sound at all familiar?

Yeah I remember that but couldn't remember his name.

 

[justtrish]

I am just trying to envision this....

They create a 'bulletproof' bulldozer. Then they causally pull it up to the prison and unload it. It then travels to the prison wall (unnoticed) and they ram the prison wall in.

Then the bulletproof bulldozer escapes at breakneck speed (25 mph max?)to a waiting get away car.

But let us not forget they were planning on injuring DeWine and BCI agents by creating their own custom electronic device.

You just can't write this stuff.

JMO

First, this literally made me lol

But really, it's my opinion that this talk of a bullet proof bulldozer was just blowing off steam. I think Chris being present in that conversation was nothing more than the boys talking big like yeah if we are arrested, this is what we could do and that bulldozer was an embellishment that was fed as they discussed being arrested. I am sure Chris literally thought it was just them talking big and Beth assumed they were blowing off steam because they were frustrated with BCI or the media.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

She was also harboring a fugitive accountant too

I had forgotten that.

 

[abeaman02]

I still think Jake feels if he can downplay GWIV's role, then GWIV will be found not guilty and he will be able to get custody of Sophia and Bulvine and at some point be able to break out the rest of them and they will all run off and live happily ever after. I know it sounds unrealistic, but when you are talking about a family that thinks they can either get away with this, or break family members out of jail, I do not think this is a far fetched conclusion in Jake's mind. Think about it. In his mind he is thinking if he states GWIV did not commit murder then obviously they will let him out...not understanding the law and possibly not believing his lawyer...this is their only chance. GWIV walks free gets custody of the littles and breaks them out and they all run away to another country and live happily ever after. They need one of the family members on the outside to build that bullet proof tank.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Staying out late at night, telling offensive jokes and talking about prostitutes were the most damaging statements she made about George. Her testimony about JW and AW though, made them look even more evil than we already knew.

She told BCI that George was bluffing, blowing off steam when he threatened DeWine and BCI agents,

I noticed she did not tell BCI she thought Angie and Jake were bluffing when they threatened her with violence.

Huge difference in Beths mind between JW & AW and George. Beth 100% believed Jake and Angie would do it.

So much so she fled and didn't look back.

JMO

 

[abeaman02]

I hope she is on websleuths and know how proud I am of her!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Great analysis!

I re-watched AW's guilty plea hearing last night & was startled to hear the charges she confessed to included moving the bodies of CR & GR (a big topic last night, lol). So I rewound it and listened again. Basically the exact same charges as the other three with a couple charges removed.

I re-watched AW's guilty plea hearing last night & was startled to hear the charges she confessed to included moving the bodies of CR & GR

BBM
Bingo!!!!