Please post away... you're never stepping on anybody's toes. We're a team here.
OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79
- Thread starter tlcya
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Okay! I'll watch for his tweets today!
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Was George in on that decision or just Jake and Billy? Was really hoping Jake would not opt out and we got to hear some real evidence against George. Of course we don't know yet. Maybe Jake is giving some solid evidence to prove George guilty.
JMO
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Todd Dykes
@ToddDykesWLWT
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17m
The jury is on a lunch break until 12:30. I'll be back in the courtroom with notepad and pen, notating more of what Jake Wagner has to say under oath. Remember, the deal he agreed to when confessing is that he would testify against his brother in open court. 1/2
2/2 In exchange, prosecutors for the State of Ohio agreed to remove the death penalty for George, Jake and their parents, Billy and Angela Wagner.
Jake also talked quite a bit about how intertwined his family members were, i.e. himself, George and their parents. Recall that George Wagner's attorneys have said their client didn't approve of the way his loved ones lived and wanted to get away. #WLWT
ake said he initially “had a suggestion,” which was to kill Hanna and make it look like her then-boyfriend Corey Holdren “had done it” – to make it look like a suicide. #WLWT
PERSONAL OBSERVATION: It’s incredibly disturbing to listen to testimony from a confessed killer. I’m sure that sounds obvious.. but if you’re not in the room, it’s hard to emphasize this point.
OF NOTE: The courtroom is really crowded. I’m guessing about 50 people are inside to witness Jake Wagner’s testimony. Many of those on hand are members of the Rhoden family, who lost so much during a single night of terror in 2016. #WLWT
Stay w/ #WLWT for complete coverage of #GeorgeWagnerIV's murder trial. I'm about to head back into the courtroom to continue following Jake Wagner's testimony. Unfortunately, he has opted out of letting us broadcast his testimony (via video or audio). #PikeCountyMassacre
https://twitter.com/ToddDykesWLWT/status/1584575792209887234
@ToddDykesWLWT
·
17m
The jury is on a lunch break until 12:30. I'll be back in the courtroom with notepad and pen, notating more of what Jake Wagner has to say under oath. Remember, the deal he agreed to when confessing is that he would testify against his brother in open court. 1/2
2/2 In exchange, prosecutors for the State of Ohio agreed to remove the death penalty for George, Jake and their parents, Billy and Angela Wagner.
Jake also talked quite a bit about how intertwined his family members were, i.e. himself, George and their parents. Recall that George Wagner's attorneys have said their client didn't approve of the way his loved ones lived and wanted to get away. #WLWT
ake said he initially “had a suggestion,” which was to kill Hanna and make it look like her then-boyfriend Corey Holdren “had done it” – to make it look like a suicide. #WLWT
PERSONAL OBSERVATION: It’s incredibly disturbing to listen to testimony from a confessed killer. I’m sure that sounds obvious.. but if you’re not in the room, it’s hard to emphasize this point.
OF NOTE: The courtroom is really crowded. I’m guessing about 50 people are inside to witness Jake Wagner’s testimony. Many of those on hand are members of the Rhoden family, who lost so much during a single night of terror in 2016. #WLWT
Stay w/ #WLWT for complete coverage of #GeorgeWagnerIV's murder trial. I'm about to head back into the courtroom to continue following Jake Wagner's testimony. Unfortunately, he has opted out of letting us broadcast his testimony (via video or audio). #PikeCountyMassacre
https://twitter.com/ToddDykesWLWT/status/1584575792209887234
That one was pretty good.
ohioexpat63
On Time Out
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I fear we will never know the entire story. Tweets are fine but it isnt a transcription. I know they are doing their best qnd I thank them
Confessed killer Jake Wagner took the witness stand this morning in his brother, George’s, murder trial in connex. w/ the 2016 #PikeCountyMassacre. Jake declined to let his testimony be shared outside the courtroom, which the judge allowed. 1/2
2/2 In late 2015 or early ‘16, b/c of worries he had that the daughter he had w/ victim Hanna Rhoden might have been molested, Jake said, “I had decided … I had no other choice than to kill Hanna.”
Jake said he was not the 1st Wagner to cultivate the idea of the #PikeCountyMassacre, saying on the witness stand, “My father first mentioned it to me.” Jake said he initially said he “would not” let that happen.
At one point during this morning's testimony, Jake Wagner mouthed "I'm sorry" to members of the Rhoden family. Jake looked repeatedly at his brother and said he "loves" George.
Jake said his “tipping point,” or the moment he decided Hanna had to be killed, followed an argument the two had about their daughter. Jake said Hanna told him that if their child were molested, Jake would “have to deal with it.”
Jake’s testimony underscores what investigators have said for several years - that a child custody dispute prompted the shooting deaths of 8 members of the Rhoden family in April 2016.
It was chilling to hear Jake Wagner say the four intended victims were: Chris Rhoden Sr., his children Hanna and Frankie, and Chris' brother Kenneth. Jake said the other 4 victims were killed b/c they were “witnesses.”
The jury is on a lunch break until 12:30. I'll be back in the courtroom with notepad and pen, notating more of what Jake Wagner has to say under oath. Remember, the deal he agreed to when confessing is that he would testify against his brother in open court. 1/2
2/2 In exchange, prosecutors for the State of Ohio agreed to remove the death penalty for George, Jake and their parents, Billy and Angela Wagner.
After spending a chunk of time this morning talking about how he ordered parts for - and built - gun silencers, Jake said his brother George was w/ him when he bought a Chevy pickup truck to be used when executing the #PikeCountyMassacre.
Jake also talked quite a bit about how intertwined his family members were, i.e. himself, George and their parents. Recall that George Wagner's attorneys have said their client didn't approve of the way his loved ones lived and wanted to get away.
Jake said he initially “had a suggestion,” which was to kill Hanna and make it look like her then-boyfriend Corey Holdren “had done it” – to make it look like a suicide.
PERSONAL OBSERVATION: It’s incredibly disturbing to listen to testimony from a confessed killer. I’m sure that sounds obvious.. but if you’re not in the room, it’s hard to emphasize this point.
OF NOTE: The courtroom is really crowded. I’m guessing about 50 people are inside to witness Jake Wagner’s testimony. Many of those on hand are members of the Rhoden family, who lost so much during a single night of terror in 2016.
Stay w/ #WLWT for complete coverage of #GeorgeWagnerIV's murder trial. I'm about to head back into the courtroom to continue following Jake Wagner's testimony. Unfortunately, he has opted out of letting us broadcast his testimony (via video or audio).
https://twitter.com/ToddDykesWLWT
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Okay!!
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Well when going to Evan Millward's twitter to see if he has anything, I see he retweeted this. I thought I'd share. I haven't checked MSM to see a time or if there are any other details, but figured I'd share.
Courtney Francisco
@CFranciscoWCPO
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36m
Okay- we are on break... Jake opted out of letting press record his testimony. So, I had to write his information and quotes in the courtroom. He got as far as the day of the homicide when the judge allowed the jury to break.
The prosecution is asking questions that could show his brother, George, knew about the crime.
Jake told jurors he met Hanna Rhoden when she was 13 and he was 17. They were in the 4-H building at the Pike Co. Fair. He started dating her with her parents' permission. She birthed their baby, Sophia, when she was 16.
They broke up in Feb. 2015. He said his custody concerns began around that time. "I was concerned that Hanna was going to let my daughter be molested."
He said Hanna was dismissive of his concerns.
By the end of 2015, he said she was stalling shared custody paperwork. He said George would be with him during drop offs and pickups sometimes. His mother was monitoring Hanna's Facebook messages.
He said his mother brought to his attention a conversation Hanna had on facebook with George's ex-wife's mother. He read it and told jurors it said Hanna had said that "If he wants custody of Sophia, it would be over my dead body, or something similar to that."
He said he, his mom and dad talked about it. He told jurors. "To be frank, I had decided I felt I had no other choice than to kill Hanna."
He said it was his dad's idea first, and he said no way. But then Jake changed his mind. Jake told jurors he told his dad they could kill Hanna and her new boyfriend, Corey, and make it look like Corey killed her then killed himself.
He said his dad didn't like that idea. Jake told jurors, "Ultimately, the plan would be that we would kill Hanna, Chris Sr. and Kenneth." He said his dad told him to collect the firearms, prepare a silencer and get a vehicle that was not his.
(more)
@CFranciscoWCPO
·
36m
Okay- we are on break... Jake opted out of letting press record his testimony. So, I had to write his information and quotes in the courtroom. He got as far as the day of the homicide when the judge allowed the jury to break.
The prosecution is asking questions that could show his brother, George, knew about the crime.
Jake told jurors he met Hanna Rhoden when she was 13 and he was 17. They were in the 4-H building at the Pike Co. Fair. He started dating her with her parents' permission. She birthed their baby, Sophia, when she was 16.
They broke up in Feb. 2015. He said his custody concerns began around that time. "I was concerned that Hanna was going to let my daughter be molested."
He said Hanna was dismissive of his concerns.
By the end of 2015, he said she was stalling shared custody paperwork. He said George would be with him during drop offs and pickups sometimes. His mother was monitoring Hanna's Facebook messages.
He said his mother brought to his attention a conversation Hanna had on facebook with George's ex-wife's mother. He read it and told jurors it said Hanna had said that "If he wants custody of Sophia, it would be over my dead body, or something similar to that."
He said he, his mom and dad talked about it. He told jurors. "To be frank, I had decided I felt I had no other choice than to kill Hanna."
He said it was his dad's idea first, and he said no way. But then Jake changed his mind. Jake told jurors he told his dad they could kill Hanna and her new boyfriend, Corey, and make it look like Corey killed her then killed himself.
He said his dad didn't like that idea. Jake told jurors, "Ultimately, the plan would be that we would kill Hanna, Chris Sr. and Kenneth." He said his dad told him to collect the firearms, prepare a silencer and get a vehicle that was not his.
(more)
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Sure Jake. I don't recall Hanna saying that in state's evidence.
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Thank you arielilane
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^^rsbm
Not a chance in lleh!
The burden of proof to find GW4 guilty as charged is on the state. The state was going to try this case with or without Jake's confession but when he decided to cooperate, his confession helped answer questions that the prosecution had about their own evidence, and no doubt helped with their strategy on how to present their case at trial. And then the state was able to add Angela's cooperation -- a bonus.
The defense's job is not to prove their client is innocent but to give the jury reason to doubt the state's evidence including evidence supported by Jake and Angela. GW4's defense is working to give the jurors reasonable doubt that his participation or role in the murders went down as presented by the state.
To my knowledge, the recorded confession by Jake was played for the Judge but not admitted into evidence, and can't imagine it would.
IMO, that 12-hour recording is the state's deal with the devil (same as Angela's confession) and a true pandora's box never to see the light of day.
I believe the statement by Jake (the proffer), the covertly recorded conversations collected by BCI, and possibly Jake and Angela's interrogation videos after their arrests have already been admitted but I can't recall a trial where the prosecution's recorded interaction with a confessing witness such as Jake was ever admitted as evidence. That makes no sense to me.
IMO, whatever the defense desires to challenge or discredit about any of the evidence used during the trial that's being supported by Jake (or Angela) will be handled when the defense gets to cross-examine the state's key witnesses, Jake and Angela.
And when it's the defense's turn, they always have the opportunity to call GW4 and any other witnesses they believe will impeach the credibility of ANY state evidence-- including evidence supported by Jake (or Angela) as presented by the state.
If they are doing their job, the defense will take every opportunity to plant reasonable doubt about the state's case to the very end. And it seems that some here are thinking there might be cause for reasonable doubt. IMO, that's the risk the state takes every time they charge a passive defendant that did not actively pull the trigger with Murder-1.
Whether we agree or not, that's the law of the land (Ohio) for felony murder, and where I find it typically becomes more clear to both viewers and jurors s during jury instructions which I trust will be played for the public.
For consideration, I'm thinking of the recent Florida trial where similar to the Wagners, 3 defendants each faced the Murder-1, Conspiracy, and Solicitation charges for killing FSU Professor Dan Markel:
In Markel's murder case, two of the defendants drove from Miami to Tallahassee to shoot Markel dead, and the 3rd defendant never met the victim or set foot in Tallahassee -- she was pretty much the broker of this murder for hire. Initially, all 3 defendants entered not-guilty pleas and were expected to be tried together.
However, before the trial, one of the defendants, like Jake, took a deal to cooperate and testify against the other two defendants headed to trial.
After the case presented for the remaining two defendants, the jury found the trigger man (per the cooperating witness) guilty of Murder and related Conspiracy charges but could not unanimously agree to convict the 3rd defendant (a woman, not present at the murder) and her case was declared a mistrial.
The state retried the 3rd defendant's case earlier this year and this time she was found guilty of all charges including first-degree murder and the related conspiracy and solicitation charges. The Circuit Court Judge sentenced the 3rd defendant here to life in prison plus two 30-year sentences for her role in the murder of FSU Professor Markel!
And just to be clear, it's undisputed that the defendant was in Miami at the time of the murder, and never stepped foot on the crime scene.
MOO
(continued p 2)
He told jurors he chose a Colt 1911/22 and Glock 40. The 1911 was his and the glock was his dad's. he tested out George's SKS but said it failed during silencer testing.
he then told jurors he bought his great uncle's vehicle. He said George was with him when he bought that vehicle. They got in April 2016. He said he killed the Rhodens on April 22, 2016.
Then, the judge let jurors go on lunch break.
Some of my other notes taken during court: George walked in before his brother. the courtroom was full of family members. George did not look at any person in the crowd. He kept his eyes down until his brother came out.
Jake came out handcuffed, wearing a tan jail jumpsuit. His hair was in a slicked back ponytail. He had a goatee.
He and his brother locked eyes. He smiled when he told the jury he loves his brother and would love nothing more than to see his brother go home.
He started out by telling jurors he and his brother and father often committed crimes together. He said he and his family intentionally burnt down two of their homes and a semi. and they intentionally wrecked George's truck all to collect insurance money.
He said the Peterson Rd. property where they lived in 2016 was in his and his brother's names because they had the clear insurance record. He said he and his brother would poach deer by spotlighting them.
He said spotlighting is what you do so the "animal has no chance"
He said his family shared finances and helped one another pay off debts. He and George had bank accounts together. He said he and his family held family meetings where they would voice their opinions or vote on the outcome of choices. Those meetings took place in the kitchen.
He said he, his brother and father stole things like fuel, lumber, appliances, tools, fencing, livestock. He said they would steal from businesses with insurance to try to avoid hurting the working class person.
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No more tweets from James - so I will let @arielilane take over now!
(continued page 3)
He described a moment when he abused Hanna. He said he didn't really choke her, but said he held her against a wall by her shoulder/collar bone. He said he did it because "She was lazy in her responsibilities she voluntarily chose to do." and he was picking up her slack.
"She was acting like my brother's wife which I didn't have a high opinion of." "She had an attitude." He said she was storming off so he held her against the wall until she "calmed down" which was "less than five minutes"
He said the reason he was so worried about Sophia getting molested is because that happened in his family and in Hanna's family. He was afraid the new boyfriend would do it.
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Angenette levy has some great tweets. This one caught my eye.
I know this isn't indication of murder, but being married to an avid hunter and having sons that also hunt with him, this sure isn't what someone that enjoys hunting does and "it's about the science of it" that's great and migration patterns are good to know, watching them to understand them is great, it adds to the knowledge for future hunting. Even planting food is legal and can be part of hunting and cultivating deer so you can draw one in or feed them so they get larger, etc. Spotlighting and poaching them?? Good hunters that care about the science of it know that doing it legally, only taking what you can use and eat, and being respectful of the laws is key to hunting for generations to come. There are reasons there is a limit and seasons for specific deer, etc. Shouldn't surprise me this is what they do, but this is NOT hunting.
Also, the comment he liked the science of it gave me chills because it sure seems there was a science to what happened on April 21st and 22nd, 2016. They watched, they stalked, drove back and forth, came in during the dark of night and..
I know this isn't indication of murder, but being married to an avid hunter and having sons that also hunt with him, this sure isn't what someone that enjoys hunting does and "it's about the science of it" that's great and migration patterns are good to know, watching them to understand them is great, it adds to the knowledge for future hunting. Even planting food is legal and can be part of hunting and cultivating deer so you can draw one in or feed them so they get larger, etc. Spotlighting and poaching them?? Good hunters that care about the science of it know that doing it legally, only taking what you can use and eat, and being respectful of the laws is key to hunting for generations to come. There are reasons there is a limit and seasons for specific deer, etc. Shouldn't surprise me this is what they do, but this is NOT hunting.
Also, the comment he liked the science of it gave me chills because it sure seems there was a science to what happened on April 21st and 22nd, 2016. They watched, they stalked, drove back and forth, came in during the dark of night and..
@Angenette5 also has lots of tweets, some things that I haven’t seen from other reporters. I am on my tablet so I can’t copy paste more than 3 tweets, so if anyone wants to do that..
ETA Billy suggested they kill SW?
ETA Billy suggested they kill SW?
I think that's it for now. She did an excellent job!
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