OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

[Betty P]

I interpreted that to mean that George4 is in a death penalty trial but if Jake lives up to the proffer and testifies, G4 won't get the DP. But now I wonder if I'm wrong. Ack...

GW4 and his attorneys are on their own now, without a net. Same with Billy.

Take the plea deal - get LWOP

Go to court - gamble on getting the DP vs a lesser sentence. Now that GW4 chose to go to trial, its up to Judge Deering to determine the sentence, once he's convicted. Same with Billy. It'a big gamble - go to trial and take the chance you'll get 30 or 40 years or face the DP

The purpose was to provide an incentive to come forward and avoid these long, drawn out trials. AW was even able to negotiate a better deal with prosecutors than LWOP

It's why this is a Death Penalty trial, with DP certified attorneys and DP certified jury.

I was a little surprised that George didn't take the deal. If he truly was less involved, he could have negotiated a better deal. Billy, JMO is bull-headed and ready to challenge any authority, so he's no surprise.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I believe the Prosecution is saving the best testimony for the last. They want the best testimony to be fresh in the thoughts of the jurors when they go off to deliberate.

JMO

They want the best testimony to be fresh in the thoughts of the jurors when they go off to deliberate.

Then that would be the defense's witnesses testimony.

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

GW4 and his attorneys are on their own now, without a net. Same with Billy.

Take the plea deal - get LWOP

Go to court - gamble on getting the DP vs a lesser sentence. Now that GW4 chose to go to trial, its up to Judge Deering to determine the sentence, once he's convicted. Same with Billy. It'a big gamble - go to trial and take the chance you'll get 30 or 40 years or face the DP

The purpose was to provide an incentive to come forward and avoid these long, drawn out trials. AW was even able to negotiate a better deal with prosecutors than LWOP

It's why this is a Death Penalty trial, with DP certified attorneys and DP certified jury.

I was a little surprised that George didn't take the deal. If he truly was less involved, he could have negotiated a better deal. Billy, JMO is bull-headed and ready to challenge any authority, so he's no surprise.

Ahhhh! NOW I get it!

Thanks!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I wonder if they will have Jake and Angela testify before the last of the recorded conversations? Maybe have them tell the story and then play those recorded intercepts from Jake and George driving truck. Maybe what George says on there should be the last thing they here because if what AC said is true and it's pretty damning then maybe?? I also think we still need to hear about Billy brining the truck to his brother that morning and then what the brother saw/heard when he drove Billy back to Peterson Road.

The defense gets to call witnesses after the prosecution rests.

JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

They want the best testimony to be fresh in the thoughts of the jurors when they go off to deliberate.

Then that would be the defense's witnesses testimony.

JMO

I can't imagine the defense has much. |

Even so, doesn't the prosecution have the right to cross examine the defense witnesses?

IMO only the closing statements are not able to be cross examined. The closing statements will be very interesting.

JMO
Conspiracy Charge # 22

 

[gizmobtj]

GW4 and his attorneys are on their own now, without a net. Same with Billy.

Take the plea deal - get LWOP

Go to court - gamble on getting the DP vs a lesser sentence. Now that GW4 chose to go to trial, its up to Judge Deering to determine the sentence, once he's convicted. Same with Billy. It'a big gamble - go to trial and take the chance you'll get 30 or 40 years or face the DP

The purpose was to provide an incentive to come forward and avoid these long, drawn out trials. AW was even able to negotiate a better deal with prosecutors than LWOP

It's why this is a Death Penalty trial, with DP certified attorneys and DP certified jury.

I was a little surprised that George didn't take the deal. If he truly was less involved, he could have negotiated a better deal. Billy, JMO is bull-headed and ready to challenge any authority, so he's no surprise.

I think the logic is pretty simple -- make a deal and get LWOP. Or go to trial where you only get the DP if Jake lies. But if Jake lies and the prosecution has to impeach their own star witness, chances are you be aquitted. Sucks for the families and their other victims, but it makes sense for George.

And, based on their testimony, and controlling nature, it is not surprising to me that Angela and Jake would be the ones who jumped to "take control" of their destiny and were less comfortable with uncertainty

 

[Betty P]

I can't imagine the defense has much. |

Even so, doesn't the prosecution have the right to cross examine the defense witnesses?

IMO only the closing statements are not able to be cross examined. The closing statements will be very interesting.

JMO

In pre-trial hearings, IIRC, they didn't submit any evidence for discovery

 

[justtrish]

The defense gets to call witnesses after the prosecution rests.

JMO

The prosecution can present rebuttal evidence if the defense presents evidence. So if the defense lays out their story and the prosecution has any evidence to refute that, they can call more witnesses. I think that would be very likely in this case.

I will rephrase my previous statement to say the last thing the prosecution should present when it's their time is George's own words that show he has knowledge of what happened. Of course the defense can present their case and call witnesses. If it's a load of crap, then the prosecution can present evidence to contradict what the defense has presented.

 

[Betty P]

I think the logic is pretty simple -- make a deal and get LWOP. Or go to trial where you only get the DP if Jake lies. But if Jake lies and the prosecution has to impeach their own star witness, chances are you be aquitted. Sucks for the families and their other victims, but it makes sense for George.

And, based on their testimony, and controlling nature, it is not surprising to me that Angela and Jake would be the ones who jumped to "take control" of their destiny and were less comfortable with uncertainty

No, not at all. Jake has said enough about George's activities before during and after the murders to make him eligible for the death penalty.

Jake puts him at all the murder scenes, shooting a weapon or attempting to at Chris Sr's.

Jake has him helping buy supplies, involved in the planning, helping get the murder truck, converting it, etc.

Jake has him helping cover up

Jake didn't intend for GW4 to face the DP, he intended his family members take the plea deal and live. It was GW4's fault he's now eligible for DP. His choice alone.

I'm sorry some folks have gotten confused about GW4 facing the DP, I thought you all understood. I also don't get the whole thing about Jake lying. If he lies HE gets the DP. He's not going to do that and BCI & FBI are not dumb enough to fall for a fake story from him.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

In pre-trial hearings, IIRC, they didn't submit any evidence for discovery

What could they have, really, unless they have evidence that George was elsewhere on the night of the murders, e.g., he's on security cam footage somewhere or was in a hotel in Cleveland. His brother and mother are going to testify against him. And they would be nuts to put G4 on the stand to testify for himself.

 

[arielilane]

I can't imagine the defense has much. |

Even so, doesn't the prosecution have the right to cross examine the defense witnesses?

IMO only the closing statements are not able to be cross examined. The closing statements will be very interesting.

JMO
Conspiracy Charge # 22

BBM
I can't imagine the defense has much. Agreed

Even so, doesn't the prosecution have the right to cross examine the defense witnesses?
Yes, correct.

IMO only the closing statements are not able to be cross examined. Correct. The closing statements will be very interesting. Agreed.

How Courts Work

www.americanbar.org

 

[gizmobtj]

No, not at all. Jake has said enough about George's activities before during and after the murders to make him eligible for the death penalty.

Jake puts him at all the murder scenes, shooting a weapon or attempting to at Chris Sr's.

Jake has him helping buy supplies, involved in the planning, helping get the murder truck, converting it, etc.

Jake has him helping cover up

Jake didn't intend for GW4 to face the DP, he intended his family members take the plea deal and live. It was GW4's fault he's now eligible for DP. His choice alone.

I'm sorry some folks have gotten confused about GW4 facing the DP, I thought you all understood. I also don't get the whole thing about Jake lying. If he lies HE gets the DP. He's not going to do that and BCI & FBI are not dumb enough to fall for a fake story from him.

But, as AC said, while GW is facing the DP, if JW testifies truthful it comes off the table. JW's testimony was the trade for that. If they all took a deal, why would the prosecution need JWs testimony?

And listen to AC's opening statement -- his confession got JW his sentence and his testimony takes the DP off the table for his family. She says it clear as day

The proffer got JW the death spec removed and the testimony got DP to go away for thr family if he's truthful. She calls it "the second part of the agreement" was to remove the DP from the family and AC said "we told him we would not do it unless he agreed to testify"

2:33:45

 

[pittsburghgirl]

No, not at all. Jake has said enough about George's activities before during and after the murders to make him eligible for the death penalty.

Jake puts him at all the murder scenes, shooting a weapon or attempting to at Chris Sr's.

Jake has him helping buy supplies, involved in the planning, helping get the murder truck, converting it, etc.

Jake has him helping cover up

Jake didn't intend for GW4 to face the DP, he intended his family members take the plea deal and live. It was GW4's fault he's now eligible for DP. His choice alone.

I'm sorry some folks have gotten confused about GW4 facing the DP, I thought you all understood. I also don't get the whole thing about Jake lying. If he lies HE gets the DP. He's not going to do that and BCI & FBI are not dumb enough to fall for a fake story from him.

I appreciate the clarification, for sure. And in this case, Jake is not a "snitch," as in throwing someone under the bus to save himself. His guilty plea opened a possibility for everyone to avoid the DP. Angela was smart to take the deal. The other two, not so much.

 

[Pru2U]

I can't imagine the defense has much. |

Even so, doesn't the prosecution have the right to cross examine the defense witnesses?

IMO only the closing statements are not able to be cross examined. The closing statements will be very interesting.

JMO
Conspiracy Charge # 22

They will cross each witness as they come, just like defense is doing now. I believe you're thinking of the rebuttal. If the defense does introduce evidence, the prosecution has a right after the defense rests to introduce rebuttal evidence or testimony. This can include a new witness to rebut or contradict whatever a defense witness testified to or other evidence that was not introduced. Or a witness who testified earlier could provide new testimony that contradicts a defense witness.

In closing arguments, prosecution goes first & defense gets to go last.

 

[Betty P]

What could they have, really, unless they have evidence that George was elsewhere on the night of the murders, e.g., he's on security cam footage somewhere or was in a hotel in Cleveland. His brother and mother are going to testify against him. And they would be nuts to put G4 on the stand to testify for himself.

Or someone he was out hunting or drinking with that night. Any witness who saw him, hung out with him, had a beer, saw a movie, etc.

 

[Puzzles8]

But, as AC said, while GW is facing the DP, if JW testifies truthful it comes off the table. JW's testimony was the trade for that. If they all took a deal, why would the prosecution need JWs testimony?

IMO, the Prosecution doesn't really need it, but it never hurts the case if they have an even more decisive amount of testimony.

The more the better! It will just become a more solid case in the juror's minds.

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

Or someone he was out hunting or drinking with that night. Any witness who saw him, hung out with him, had a beer, saw a movie, etc.

If there's a receipt for that beer, movie, etc., it's surely in AW's tub. LOL!

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Or someone he was out hunting or drinking with that night. Any witness who saw him, hung out with him, had a beer, saw a movie, etc.

Betty P.
GW4 is guilty as sin, your right he was out hurting that night, but it wasn’t animals he was hurting, it was human’s.???? JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

Betty P.
GW4 is guilty as sin, your right he was out hurting that night, but it wasn’t animals he was hurting, it was human’s.???? JMO

Johnny, I love that you just speak the honest truth!

JMO

 

[pamelado2]

Jmo but if I try to list the evidence so far on George here is what I see: shoes someone else bought that can only be put on him by his murdering sicko mother, owing a type of gun used in murders not the gun as of it, voice recording of bringing all hex with him to the point of seeing tabby back in court, wild story of building a bullet proof bull dozer and wild shocking device. And being born to a mother that has a weird relationship with her murdering son Jake. Jmo and really if Jake and Angela’s testimony compares to other things Canapa has said was evidence she was going to present then there may be problems. Some of the things so far she stated as evidence has been blown up for shock factor as I see it. Jmo

Let's not forget witness testimony that shows him taking part in every decision made in family meetings, for years. Over every little trivial matter.
Also, if prosecutors can use inmates to testify against fellow inmates, how much more weight does the testimony of involved parties hold? If Jake and Angela's testimony that George was part of this is a lie, why was George's phone turned off during the murders? Why did the family turn on him? Why are they blaming him for something he didn't do? If any thing wouldn't they have lied and said he DIDN'T have anything to do with it?