OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

[justtrish]

My thought was he could have stayed in OH when everyone else moved to Alaska or better still, stayed in AK when everyone else went back, since that was always his dream. But you are so right, if he was indeed fearful of his family killing him or taking his child, Montana would have been the perfect time & place to make his escape while he had protection.

Assuming he was indeed fearful and needed protection.

From his (captured) conversation with his son about the the BCI agents at the border, one could opine George was more fearful of BCI akilling him, JW & BW & taking his son. Or at least that’s what he told his 2 1/2 yo little boy.

100%!!

Beth running from this family shows what fear of a family killing her looks like.

Tabatha running from this family shows what fear of a family killer her looks like.

George stayed.
George texted Billy, don't come up here, got company
George rants and raves about BCI following him in Alaska
George terrorizes his child about outsiders wanting to take him and hurt him.

He could have made comments at any point to alert BCI he was fearful. He thought the phones were tapped and they attempted to throw conversations since they were paranoid about being listened to, why not throw in some things then to alert BCI. Why not walk into a police station on his many late night outings without his family?

He wasn't afraid of his family.

 

[ohioexpat63]

I interpreted that to mean that George4 is in a death penalty trial but if Jake lives up to the proffer and testifies, G4 won't get the DP. But now I wonder if I'm wrong. Ack...

you are correct.

 

[Pru2U]

So that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that George is guilty of conspiring with his family to kill 8 people? Because that is the point of this trail, not “intervene, defend or try to protect any of these girls living in the same household. Not even his own wife”

The Wagoners are an evil family. The way they treated the women JW and GW4 married show that. It doesn’t show GW4 was part of the conspiracy to murder though, IMO. Everything I’be seen and heard during the trial point towards Billy, Angela and Jake planning and carrying out the murders.

EA was a great witness against JW and AW. Nothing she said showed GW4 as part of the conspiracy vs part of an evil family he didn’t leave but stayed away from and argued with when he couldn’t Stay away. I think the same could be said about every witness to this point.

and about JW and AW‘s proffers, when people are know liars who get a benefit from saying what the prosecutor wants them to say, I have to strongly discount the possibility that they are being honest. I really hope the prosecutor's have something better than they have shown so far and I don’t me testimony from JW and AW.

MOO

No. That alone doesn't and I never suggested it did. That's just one piece of the puzzle (albeit a big one). The collective "big picture" is coming together. We've got about 2 more weeks of evidence to come. Then GW's defense has a turn. Stay tuned.

 

[justtrish]

I believe the Prosecution is saving the best testimony for the last. They want the best testimony to be fresh in the thoughts of the jurors when they go off to deliberate.

JMO

I wonder if they will have Jake and Angela testify before the last of the recorded conversations? Maybe have them tell the story and then play those recorded intercepts from Jake and George driving truck. Maybe what George says on there should be the last thing they here because if what AC said is true and it's pretty damning then maybe?? I also think we still need to hear about Billy brining the truck to his brother that morning and then what the brother saw/heard when he drove Billy back to Peterson Road.

 

[ohioexpat63]

100%!!

Beth running from this family shows what fear of a family killing her looks like.

Tabatha running from this family shows what fear of a family killer her looks like.

George stayed.
George texted Billy, don't come up here, got company
George rants and raves about BCI following him in Alaska
George terrorizes his child about outsiders wanting to take him and hurt him.

He could have made comments at any point to alert BCI he was fearful. He thought the phones were tapped and they attempted to throw conversations since they were paranoid about being listened to, why not throw in some things then to alert BCI. Why not walk into a police station on his many late night outings without his family?

He wasn't afraid of his family.

If EA was brave enough to escape this sick, perverted family, GW4 had nothing to worry about. He had the means and opportunity, at any moment. EA had nothing and no one and she was brave enough to rid herself of the diabolical 4. GW4 didn't escape because he wanted to comit murder. He planned, committed, covered-up and was an intregual part in the conspiracy to commit 8 murders. JMO

 

[Chelly]

I believe the Prosecution is saving the best testimony for the last. They want the best testimony to be fresh in the thoughts of the jurors when they go off to deliberate.

JMO

Saving the best for last must mean JW and AW...the testimony of lying, jail-house snitches who have received plea deals from the state for ratting out their families.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I believe the Prosecution is saving the best testimony for the last. They want the best testimony to be fresh in the thoughts of the jurors when they go off to deliberate.

JMO

The prosecution had to lay out the murders themselves, lay out the forensics (bullets, casings, prints, shoes, etc.) and then build the case that 4 people were in a conspiracy, which involves motive, cell phone data, past patterns of behavior involving threats against and abuse of the three young women involved with Jake and George. Beth nailed those 3 stories together so it's clear, now, that the Wagners were willing to not only threaten the women but also their families. George's wife, the mother of Jake's child, and his wife--all threatened, all fearing for their lives. Tabitha and Beth were told to stay away from their families or the families would be killed if they came around. Meanwhile, Hanna would not stay away from her family and had the feistiness to move out and get on with her life and as a direct result, her family was killed. I truly don't know what more of a pattern the jury would need to see that women involved with either George or Jake were in danger.

And once that's clear, it doesn't matter what Jake says about motive (Mr. Liar).The motive is a monstrously metastasized version of domestic violence, meted out by 4 adults in various ways instead of just one spouse. All Jake has to do in tell us how the murders went down and what all George did to make them happen.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

If EA was brave enough to escape this sick, perverted family, GW4 had nothing to worry about. He had the means and opportunity, at any moment. EA had nothing and no one and she was brave enough to rid herself of the diabolical 4. GW4 didn't escape because he wanted to comit murder. He planned, committed, covered-up and was an intregual part in the conspiracy to commit 8 murders. JMO

AMEN.

 

[Myland]

Jmo the prosecutors need to focus on maybe that one or two jury members that could be like me and need to see more evidence, because in the end it only takes one jury member isn’t it to say not guilty. I have no ties to the Wagner’s, live in the county, never been in trouble, I have an open mind and if it hadn’t been for me being in these groups I could have easily been in the jury had I been served. Jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

Jmo I watched all of the testimony of Ea. She seemed extremely rehearsed and the phrasing she had seemed to mimic court phrasing. Jmo but is this the testimony of threatening the lives of dewine and the investigator and reader? Or do we have actual recordings?

Law&Crime Network - YouTube
WCPO 9 - YouTube

Elizabeth's testimony

Canepa:
And did you ever hear any of them discuss law enforcement or any other individuals that they wanted to harm?

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Judge gives directions on the questioning.

Canepa:
Ok, and what was your answer to that question? Did you hear any of them ever say anything about BCI or other individuals if they - regarding any threats?

Elizabeth:
Yah, so, there was a time when I was...

Judge gives directions on the questioning.

Canepa:
Was this on one occasion or more than one occasion?

Elizabeth:
More than one occasion one stands out in memory.

Canepa:
Ok. And where were you for the one that stands out in your memory?

Elizabeth:
I was in the house next to Rita's house......

(This was Angela's house where they were all living, the house Angie inherited from her dad, Rita's house was next door but Billy was living at FWF.)

Elizabeth:
....in the living room and George and Jake were loudly discussing things they would do if various law enforcement people were in their grasp. So for example Ryan, and or um, what's their name?

Defense:
Objection.

Canepa:
Objection to what? (Sounding irritated.)

Judge speaks and there is a side bar with the attorneys at the judge's desk.

Canepa:
Um, so you indicated at one time in particular stood out to you. You were in the house next to Rita's house, in the house you were living in.

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Canepa:
With the Wagners and you indicated George and Jake were loudly discussing what?

Elizabeth:
They were loudly discussing creating a, um, some kind of electric weapon that they would use to harm Mark DeWine, Ryan (Scheiderer). Not Mark DeWine - Mike DeWine, Ryan and various other people who were police or law enforcement who they were annoyed by.

Canepa:
And were both George and Jake saying they would do these things?

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Canepa:
OK. And was there ever a time where they were discussing what they would do if one or more got arrested?

Defense:
Objection. Judge remarks.

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Canepa:
Do you recall if that happened on just one occasion or more than one occasion?

Elizabeth:
May I have a moment I'm very nervous.

Canepa:
Sure, sure.

Elizabeth:
I'm so sorry my brain blanked.

Canepa:
That's OK, yes, yes, absolutely. I don't know how long we've been going either. I don't know if it's appropriate for a break or not, I honestly don't remember when we started your honor. I can ask the question. Was there ever a time when - I guess you already answered yes - when there was discussion about what they would do if one or more of them got arrested?

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Canepa:
Was that on one occasion or more than one occasion?

Elizabeth:
It was an on-going conversation that would happen periodically, um, it happened almost every day I want to say.

Canepa:
And who would be involved in their discussions?

Elizabeth:
Depending on who was there, Angela, George, Jake, Billy, Rita, sometimes I feel like Chris was even there a couple times. They would discuss you know different scenarios like well if George and Billy were arrested well who would take custody or who would manage the finances. If Angela and Jake were arrested who would take care of the children? And um, and if they were all arrested would Fredericka take care of the children? So it was a just an on-going conversation that happened periodically and they would discuss different scenarios based off who might be arrested.

Canepa:
OK. And was there any discussion about um, any plans to get out of incarceration?

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Canepa:
And what were those discussions?

Judge makes remarks.

Canepa:
Did those discussions occur one time or more than one time?

Elizabeth:
More than one time.

Canepa:
OK. And who was involved in those discussions?

Elizabeth:
Give me a moment to think. (Closes eyes)

Canepa:
Yup.

Elizabeth:
I remember George Jake Angela and at one point Chris. I have the feeling that Billy was near by within hearing.

Canepa:
OK, and what was discussed?

Elizabeth looks at judge.

Canepa:
You can answer.

Elizabeth:
There was discussion about creating a bullet proof bulldozer which could be driven through the walls of an enclosure such as a prison. With which to, you know, break people out of jail.

 

[Puzzles8]

So that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that George is guilty of conspiring with his family to kill 8 people? Because that is the point of this trail, not “intervene, defend or try to protect any of these girls living in the same household. Not even his own wife”

The Wagoners are an evil family. The way they treated the women JW and GW4 married show that. It doesn’t show GW4 was part of the conspiracy to murder though, IMO. Everything I’be seen and heard during the trial point towards Billy, Angela and Jake planning and carrying out the murders.

EA was a great witness against JW and AW. Nothing she said showed GW4 as part of the conspiracy vs part of an evil family he didn’t leave but stayed away from and argued with when he couldn’t Stay away. I think the same could be said about every witness to this point.

and about JW and AW‘s proffers, when people are know liars who get a benefit from saying what the prosecutor wants them to say, I have to strongly discount the possibility that they are being honest. I really hope the prosecutor's have something better than they have shown so far and I don’t me testimony from JW and AW.

MOO

IMO George had every opportunity to vote against his family at the 'kitchen table' vote, for many years, yet he never chose to. I'm sure that kitchen table vote also helped George to attain sole custody of his son. I'm also sure George was at that kitchen table vote when they planned to murder the Rhoden family and anyone else that were unfortunately with them that night.

George was an undeniable integral part of the W4, a family Conspiracy. He participated in their votes and decisions as a family. IMO he is as liable in his participation as the other 3.

JMO

Conspiracy Charge # 22

 

[Myland]

Canepa:
And did you ever hear any of them discuss law enforcement or any other individuals that they wanted to harm?

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Judge gives directions on the questioning.

Canepa:
Ok, and what was your answer to that question? Did you hear any of them ever say anything about BCI or other individuals if they - regarding any threats?

Elizabeth:
Yah, so, there was a time when I was...

Judge gives directions on the questioning.

Canepa:
Was this on one occasion or more than one occasion?

Elizabeth:
More than one occasion one stands out in memory.

Canepa:
Ok. And where were you for the one that stands out in your memory?

Elizabeth:
I was in the house next to Rita's house......

(This was Angela's house where they were all living, the house Angie inherited from her dad, Rita's house was next door but Billy was living at FWF.)

Elizabeth:
....in the living room, um, and George and Jake were loudly discussing, um, things they would do if various law enforcement people were in their grasp. So for example Ryan, and or um, what's their name?

Defense:
Objection.

Canepa:
Objection to what? (Sounding irritated.)

Judge speaks and there is a side bar with the attorneys at the judge's desk.

Canepa:
Um, so you indicated at one time in particular stood out to you. You were in the house next to Rita's house, in the house you were living in.

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Canepa:
With the Wagners and you indicated George and Jake were loudly discussing what?

Elizabeth:
They were loudly discussing creating a, um, some kind of electric weapon that they would use to harm Mark DeWine, Ryan (Scheiderer). Not Mark DeWine, Mike DeWine, Ryan and various other people who were police or law enforcement who they were annoyed by.

Canepa:
Um, and, were both George and Jake saying they would do these things?

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Canepa:
OK. And was there ever a time where they were discussing, um, what they would do if one or more got arrested?

Defense:
Objection. Judge remarks.

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Canepa:
Do you recall if that happened on just one occasion or more than one occasion?

Elizabeth:
May I have a moment I'm very nervous.

Canepa:
Sure, sure.

Elizabeth:
I'm so sorry my brain blanked.

Canepa:
That's OK, yes, yes, absolutely. I don't know how long we've been going either. I don't know if it's appropriate for a break or not, I honestly don't remember when we started your honor. I can ask the question. Was there ever a time when - I guess you already answered yes - when there was discussion about what they would do if one or more of them got arrested?

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Canepa:
Was that on one occasion or more than one occasion?

Elizabeth:
It was an on going conversation that would happen periodically, um, it happened almost every day I want to say.

Canepa:
And who would be involved in their discussions?

Elizabeth:
Depending on who was there, um, Angela, George, Jake, Billy, Rita, sometimes I feel like Chris was even there a couple times, um, they would discuss you know different scenarios like well if George and Billy were arrested well who would take custody or who would manage the finances. If Angela and Jake were arrested who would take care of the children? And um, and if they were all arrested would Fredericka take care of the children? So it was a just and on going conversation that happened periodically and they would discuss different scenarios based off who might be arrested.

Canepa:
OK. And was there any discussion about um, any plans to get out of incarceration?

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Canepa:
And what were those discussions?

Judge makes remarks.

Canepa:
Did those discussions occur one time or more than one time?

Elizabeth:
More than one time.

Canepa:
OK. And who was involved in those discussions?

Elizabeth:
Give me a moment to think. (Closes eyes)

Canepa:
Yup.

Elizabeth:
I remember George Jake Angela and at one point Chris. I have the feeling that Billy was near by within hearing

Canepa:
OK, and what was discussed?

Elizabeth looks at judge.

Canepa:
You can answer.

Elizabeth:
There was discussion about creating a bullet proof bulldozer um, which could be driven through the walls of an enclosure such as a prison um, with which to, you know, break people out of jail.

Jmo I was asking about the confidential source Capena said they had of the threatening of harm in Fredericka’s kitchen. Does the state have recordings or is this the evidence of threatening? Before this testimony I assumed they had recordings. Now I am not sure. Jmo

 

[Betty P]

I thought JWs deal was no DP for anyone if he told everything to prosecution satisfaction.

Correct, it's LWOP if the family members/co-conspirators agree to take the same plea deal. If they don't take the deal, they take their chances with the jury like anyone else. The prosecution revokes that offer when they decide to go to court.

GW4's attorneys tried to fight that in pre-trial hearings, but IIRC the judge agreed its up to the prosecutors. It's their plea agreement, they can revoke it in this circumstance.

 

[Puzzles8]

Saving the best for last must mean JW and AW...the testimony of lying, jail-house snitches who have received plea deals from the state for ratting out their families.

What makes you come to the conclusion Jake and Angie were jailhouse snitches?

They both knew they were caught red handed with a massive amount of evidence and would probably face the Death Penalty.

IMO, George and Billy should be grateful to Jake that he took the potential DP off the table in their trials.

JMO

Conspiracy Charge #22

 

[gizmobtj]

I thought JWs deal was no DP for anyone if he told everything to prosecution satisfaction.

If you take what AC said about JWs deal in the opening literally, it is two-part: (1) his confession took the DP off the table for him and landed him his sentence and (2) testifying to the prosecution's satisfaction took the DP off the table for everyone else. I don't know, though, it could just be inartful wording

 

[Tillicum]

I've been in the Jackson Walmart many times. My mind was just wandering, thinking about AE making her way through the aisles to get to the automotive/tire area in the back, and then out through that back exit. When thinking of her stepping out that door, I couldn't hold back my tears imagining how she must've felt seeing her dad in the car.

 

[Betty P]

I interpreted that to mean that George4 is in a death penalty trial but if Jake lives up to the proffer and testifies, G4 won't get the DP. But now I wonder if I'm wrong. Ack...

GW4 and his attorneys are on their own now, without a net. Same with Billy.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

So that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that George is guilty of conspiring with his family to kill 8 people? Because that is the point of this trail, not “intervene, defend or try to protect any of these girls living in the same household. Not even his own wife”

The Wagoners are an evil family. The way they treated the women JW and GW4 married show that. It doesn’t show GW4 was part of the conspiracy to murder though, IMO. Everything I’be seen and heard during the trial point towards Billy, Angela and Jake planning and carrying out the murders.

EA was a great witness against JW and AW. Nothing she said showed GW4 as part of the conspiracy vs part of an evil family he didn’t leave but stayed away from and argued with when he couldn’t Stay away. I think the same could be said about every witness to this point.

and about JW and AW‘s proffers, when people are know liars who get a benefit from saying what the prosecutor wants them to say, I have to strongly discount the possibility that they are being honest. I really hope the prosecutor's have something better than they have shown so far and I don’t me testimony from JW and AW.

MOO

Read Count 9 of the Grand Jury indictment, which specifies that G4 "with purpose to commit, or promote or facilitate the commission of Aggravated Murder, Murder and/or Aggravated Burglary, with another person or persons...plan or aid in planning said Aggravated Murders, Murders and/or Aggravated Burglaries..." And carried out "a substantial overt act(s) in furtherance of the conspiracy." We get bogged down in how front-and-center Angela and Jake are because it's Hanna's family that was murdered but every single other major act that we've heard involves all of them: burning down their house, threatening and chasing after Tabitha, moving to Alaska and back, threatening Beth, planning to take the kids from their mothers...What would make this crime any different from the other ones they've committed? Four people planned this and bought the materials needed to carry it out. That's conspiracy. If George had a gun at the murder scene, it's Aggravated Murder and Burglary.

 

[gizmobtj]

I interpreted that to mean that George4 is in a death penalty trial but if Jake lives up to the proffer and testifies, G4 won't get the DP. But now I wonder if I'm wrong. Ack...

I believe you are right. If not, then, the DP hanging over their heads would be no deterient to JW

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Sadly, this question immediately made me think of George's son.
Would Angela hold him over George?
Given all we have learned the possibility could be very real. IMO

For George to take his son from Angela and leave, one might consider the females who attempted to take a child and leave. We may also consider testimony from Tabby and HR's texts knowing the boys would never leave. IMO

When BCI separated them was his very chance to take his son, get away, and tell the truth IF this was the case. IMO

For George to take his son from Angela and leave, one might consider the females who attempted to take a child and leave

If he told LE what they were planning before the murders, JW, AW and BW would have just denied it 3 against 1. I feel like he would have had to run looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life or he would have ended up with a bullet in his head.

Plus he was a single father with no babysitter. If he had put his son in daycare his ex wife could have picked him up and left with him. Happens every day in this country.

Plus being an OTR truck driver he was gone for weeks at a time. What daycare would keep a child day and night for a week or two until his OTR truck driver dad got back home. And he couldn't take him with him.

George was in a pickle as far as having a babysitter who would keep his son while he was out on the road for weeks.

What shocked me was Billy and Angie in those texts talking about taking the GK's and running off with them leaving both GW and JW behind.

No if George had left, he had no one to take care of his son. If he told LE what they were planning before the murders, JW, AW and BW would have just denied it 3 against 1 and he would have ended up with a bullet in his head.

The only chance he might of had to get away was at the border, but sadly the R's were already dead.
JMO