OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

[Pru2U]

I think there is likely tangible evidence that George bought and disposed of the vehicle, apart from whatever testimony Jake gives. For example, G4 gave the murder truck to a relative, who can testify. If he bought the truck, the seller can testify. And so on.

I re-watched opening statements late last night. According to AC (Jake’s proffer) Billy bought the truck from his cousin. The morning after murders it was Billy who drove to his brother’s house in Athens, arriving before sunrise & gave truck to his niece Katie. His brother drove him back home. Katie transferred title to her name that same day, 4/22/16.

 

[Skully67]

Does anyone have a link to where GW4s attorney says GW4 was there to protect JW from BW?

 

[Betty P]

Here's an update for those who have questions about whether the court still has to allow GW4 or Billy the sentence of LWOP, per Jake's plea agreement.

• Jake's plea agreement was negotiated by prosecutors and included provisions to also provide LWOP for AW, GW4 and Billy if they also entered into plea agreements
• GW4's attorneys filed a motion - Motion 73 asking Judge Deering to rule that the LWOP sentence Jake negotiated for them still apply even if the others went to trial
• The judge held a hearing allowing both sides to argue, then issued a decision against GW4. The reason was that under Ohio law, judges determine sentences in the trial process, after juries have found a defendant guilty of charges. Prosecutors determine sentences under plea agreements with defendants with final approval by the judge. The negotiated LWOP was part of Jake's plea agreement. Only the prosecution can change that sentence.

Pretty sure these are the relevant docket entries for this (docket for GW4 is massive, with over 100 motions filed)

09/24/2021

MOTION #73--MOTION TO DISMISS AGGRAVATED MURDER COUNTS AND/OR DEATH SPECIFICATIONS FILED Attorney: NASH, JR, RICHARD M AND Attorney: PARKER, JOHN PATRICK

Part of huge journal entry containing decision on Motion #73

On December 16, 2021, the Defendant filed Motion No. 76, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF SHOEPRINT EVIDENCE AND OPINIONS." The State of Ohio shall file a response to Defendant's Motion No. 76 on or before January 21, 2022. The Court then proceeded to hear the oral arguments of counsel for the Defendant in support of Defendant's Motion No. 73, filed on September 24, 2021, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS AGGRAVATED MURDER COUNTS AND/OR DEATH SPECIFICATIONS," and to hear the oral arguments of the State of Ohio's counsel in opposition to such motion. Having been fully informed in the premises through the stipulations of counsel, and through the oral and written arguments of counsel, the Court finds that Defendant's Motion No. 73 is not well taken, and it is ordered that Defendant's Motion No. 73 is hereby overruled and denied.

@PrairieWind should clarify, but the motion was denied because only the prosecution can alter Jake's plea agreement, the Judge cannot. If GW4 chooses to go to trial, he's subject to sentencing guidelines for the trial process according to Ohio law with the Judge determining a sentence if the jury renders a guilty verdict.

https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/eservices/searchresults.page?x=-KwLtCmPpS54zXU*KNw4p2939kwTuqfQURyIMPVQitIS3Id6BTjNK254WvtBhCDpnPMNIegxCCdG7rI-T9BPrw

 

[Betty P]

Also, I'm fairly certain, the plea agreement offer for GW4 and Billy Wagner is still open. Not sure how they go about stopping a trial once it's begun, but assume they might be able to do so if they notify prosecution that they want to enter into a plea agreement based on Jake's.

When you hear AC mention the plea agreement and the LWOP provisions for all the family members, she's referring to the agreement's terms that applies to GW4 and Billy, should they enter an agreement.

According to the prosecution, the plea agreements were offered to Jake and AW (and potentially the others) with the primary purpose of saving the victim's families the agony of having to go through 4 consecutive trials, after holding out since 2016 for justice. The families approve the terms of all the plea agreements in this case.

 

[Pru2U]

Thank you so much Betty P.!

Next question:

So the jury will be finished once they give their verdict? The penalty phase (or sentencing) will come directly from the judge, based on the jury’s decision on each individual charge.

In other words, the judge, not the jury. will decide the sentencing. Is that correct?

 

[Chelly]

I don't understand why the plea deal offer would still be open to GW4. But, this is a very complex trial, so I guess anything is possible.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I don't think George's attorneys admitted in any Motion or Court Hearing that George was at any of the murder scenes. They might have mentioned that Jake and Angela's proffers say that, but that is not the same thing. Big difference.

They said George vehemently denies being involved with the murders and that he never shot anyone. And now at opening statements they say he wasn't at the murder scenes and didn't know about them until the next day.

So I would like to see video proof with the time stamp where an attorney for George actually admits his client was at the murder scenes.

The posts on here are correct, a murder defense attorney isn't going to say in pre-trial hearings that his client is at murder scenes (regardless of the reason) then say in opening arguments at the actual trial that now suddenly their client really was never at the murder scenes and knew nothing about that night until after the fact.

So if Nash or Parker told the Court George was at the murder scenes, I want proof on video or proof they said it in a Motion.

A DP attorney doesn't tell an open court at a pre-trial hearing that his client went along on 8 murders, but in his opening statement says his client didn't actually go and didn't know what happened that night.

It's Jake who says his brother was there, George says he wasn't so it's his word against Jake.

It's up to the Jury to believe or disbelieve Jake's testimony. If the jury believes Jake that his brother helped before hand and went along to the crime scenes then George will get convicted most likely.

If the jury thinks Jake is a liar throwing his brother under the bus then George could be acquitted of murder.

CC
Didn’t Nash say that when it was told in the Proffer that Jake never shot nobody than Jake told about GW4 moving bodies and standing at little Chris door watching to make sure he didn’t get up that is when Nash got up and said the only reason that GW4 was there was to protect Jake, and was this in one of the pre-trials when the BCI argent was getting questioned? JMO

 

[ohioexpat63]

I don't understand why the plea deal offer would still be open to GW4. But, this is a very complex trial, so I guess anything is possible.

Im sure it would stop. Itll be LWoP regardless, so no reason to proceed.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Parker said in a motion that Jake Wagner “clearly stated that George did not shoot anybody … was not supposed to go with Jake and Billy on this murder spree, and only went at the last second to protect Jake from Billy, who it was thought might kill Jake at the end of the series of aggravated murders.”
Parker said it not Nash.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/07/30/rhoden-family/

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Parker said in a motion that Jake Wagner “clearly stated that George did not shoot anybody … was not supposed to go with Jake and Billy on this murder spree, and only went at the last second to protect Jake from Billy, who it was thought might kill Jake at the end of the series of aggravated murders.”

Ohio law holds, however, that someone involved in a conspiracy to commit murder is as guilty as the person who actually carries out the killing.

“Even if he didn’t pull the trigger, even if he were not there, he can still be convicted on a complicity theory or an accessory theory,” Allen said.

Ohio, like other death-penalty states, has had difficulty obtaining lethal-injection drugs. DeWine has put executions on hold until state legislators approve another method. Ohio’s last execution was in 2018.

George Wagner’s attorneys contend that their client should not be tried on the basis of his family’s past.

 

[Betty P]

Thank you so much Betty P.!

Next question:

So the jury will be finished once they give their verdict? The penalty phase (or sentencing) will come directly from the judge, based on the jury’s decision on each individual charge.

In other words, the judge, not the jury. will decide the sentencing. Is that correct?

Yes.

 

[Betty P]

George Wagner’s attorneys contend that their client should not be tried on the basis of his family’s past.

If he feels that way, he shouldn't have gone along with his dad and brother to help them commit the murders. No one forced him and he had motive, too. JMO

 

[Betty P]

I don't understand why the plea deal offer would still be open to GW4. But, this is a very complex trial, so I guess anything is possible.

I think its still open because it's Jake's plea deal and it hasn't been finalized.

IANAL, but any defendant can change his plea to guilty, even during the trial.

 

[Chelly]

I think its still open because it's Jake's plea deal and it hasn't been finalized.

IANAL, but any defendant can change his plea to guilty, even during the trial.

OK. Got it but let me just run it by you...
So, if GW4 pleas guilty mid trial, or accepts plea deal, his harshest sentence is LWOP.

If GW4 is found guilty by jury, his harshest sentence is still LWOP.

However, both scenarios are dictated by JW adhering to the terms of his (JW) plea deal when he (JW) testifies. If JW does not adhere to his plea deal testimony, DP is back on table for everyone. Correct?

 

[justtrish]

I've been looking for all of George's pre-trial hearings just to listen and see what all was said/done. I admit I didn't follow those closely as they happened and often just read here what was discussed. I have been looking for any statements the defense made during those hearings. I found this and then saw your comment @Betty P AC talks about the deals being offered to all 4 and that all 4 had equal treatment as far as offering a deal.

Dec 22, 2021

Also, I'm fairly certain, the plea agreement offer for GW4 and Billy Wagner is still open. Not sure how they go about stopping a trial once it's begun, but assume they might be able to do so if they notify prosecution that they want to enter into a plea agreement based on Jake's.

When you hear AC mention the plea agreement and the LWOP provisions for all the family members, she's referring to the agreement's terms that applies to GW4 and Billy, should they enter an agreement.

According to the prosecution, the plea agreements were offered to Jake and AW (and potentially the others) with the primary purpose of saving the victim's families the agony of having to go through 4 consecutive trials, after holding out since 2016 for justice. The families approve the terms of all the plea agreements in this case.

 

[Betty P]

Parker said in a motion that Jake Wagner “clearly stated that George did not shoot anybody … was not supposed to go with Jake and Billy on this murder spree, and only went at the last second to protect Jake from Billy, who it was thought might kill Jake at the end of the series of aggravated murders.”
Parker said it not Nash.

Just because the defense team said that doesn't mean it's accurate. Jake probably gave a couple of different versions about GW4's involvement before he admitted the truth. During his interview/confession, BCI and prosecution probably told him about the evidence they had, forcing him to tell the truth.

 

[ohioexpat63]

The whole lot of them are liars, thieves, scammers and murderers. This phenomenon isnt isolated to Jake and Angie, as many want to portray.

 

[Pru2U]

ow does it benefit Jake to lie is my question.

Jake did everything he could to protect George in his proffer. Jake admitted to killing FR, HHG, DR, CR & HR. Jake named Billy as the killer of CR, GR, and KR. And, according to Jake, GW WAS there and he was supposed to take the first shot but he didn't.

The prosecution has conceded George did not shoot/kill anyone *based on Jake's proffer. That stipulation "based on Jake's proffer" locks Jake in while leaving the door open in case new evidence shows something different. Once the prosecution made that concession, GW's defense used it to their advantage to say "George didn't shoot anyone, George wasn't even there.

But here's the thing I don't understand about the claims of Jake lying. We had evidence but we didn't know the story of what actually happened, how they planned & carried it off. We had so many questions. Without Jake's confession, the surviving families would never have known what happened to their loved ones. Justice is crucial but it's also must consider the importance of getting answers for the families.

I cannot imagine any person who has followed this case for 7 years doesn't want to hear what happened. Jake's testimony will fill in so many missing blanks. I have my own suspicions about exactly how truthful he was on a few details s hungry as everyone posting here is for information, I find it ridiculous to discount his testimony.

I've been looking for all of George's pre-trial hearings just to listen and see what all was said/done. I admit I didn't follow those closely as they happened and often just read here what was discussed. I have been looking for any statements the defense made during those hearings. I found this and then saw your comment @Betty P AC talks about the deals being offered to all 4 and that all 4 had equal treatment as far as offering a deal.

Dec 22, 2021

I know it’s been mentioned several times so this is just a reminder: at the beginning of every thread there’s link to another thread containing all the media collected & saved by dedicated members. It holds a wealth of information.

Just an FYI to anyone doing searches.

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

Please post links to media, articles, photos, timelines etc. here relating to the case of the murder of 8 members of the Rhoden Family of Piketon, OH. No discussion, please. Link to WS Rules Link to WS Copyright Rules Thank you!

www.websleuths.com

 

[Pru2U]

I don’t know how I just doubled that up. Actually, I do, but Webslueths is smarter than me.