OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

[arielilane]

This is interesting...looking forward to both AW & JW testimonies.


Jake Wagner also gave a detailed statement to authorities about the killings and agreed to testify against the other members of his family.

John Parker, an attorney for George Wagner, said that Jake Wagner told prosecutors that his brother did not shoot any of the victims.

"He did not pull the trigger once," Parker said.

Prosecutors opposed the move to dismiss the aggravated murder charges against George Wagner. Special prosecutor Angela Canepa said they don't know with certainty that George Wagner didn't shoot anybody.

George and Jake Wagner's mother, Angela Wagner, pleaded guilty in September to helping plan the slayings, and prosecutors said she gave them new information. In exchange, prosecutors agreed to drop aggravated murder charges against her.

Her plea deals also included an agreement to testify against George Wagner IV and his father, who has pleaded not guilty — if those cases go to trial. Man Still Facing Death Penalty in 8 Murders, Brother Says He Did Nothing

 

[arielilane]

Here, Mr. Wagner is only asking the court to dismiss counts 1-8 (Aggravated Murder) and the related death specifications, but reserves the right to ask the court to dismiss the entire case for lack of sufficient evidence at the appropriate time or for other distinct legal reasons. Eldest Wagner son didn’t kill anyone in Pike County massacre: court docs

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Then why did Nash, in his opening statement claim Jake murdered all 8 of the victims?

I think both Jake's and Angela's proffers will speak loud and clear and align with the massive amount of evidence BCI has amassed over the 6.5 years after the murders.

Do you think both Jake and and Angie lied in their proffers? I don't think so. IMO, they were both pleading for their life as well for the life of Billy and George.

Just my humble opinion, it will be interesting to see this play out at court.

JMO

align with the massive amount of evidence BCI has amassed over the 6.5 years after the murders.

Yes they have a massive amount of evidence. Against Angie and Jake. But I have not seen one shred of evidence proved in court against George. Just a lot of smoke and mirrors and dirty tricks by AC.

Angie cannot place George at the scene and all the testimony so far shows George never bought any "supplies" for the silencers. The two things that AC thought she had was the auto parts from OK Parts store. But defense proved those were parts for a Chevy Silverado that George owned. The oil filter was bought from Angie's bank account and she admitted she bought it. So what evidence do they have against George?

they were both pleading for their life as well for the life of Billy and George.
I do not think Jake or Angie gives a FHF about George or Billy. In fact I think had DeWine not put out that "laser focus" statement, Angie and Jake would have found a way for George to have a fatal "accident" in AK. Maybe Billy also. That way Angie and Jake could have been together with both GK's, and George's life insurance money in MO.

So yes I think Angie and Jake both lied from the beginning. In fact we all know they did.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

I believe the state will show GW4 was at the crime scene(s) shooting, and we will never know that AW was too. IMO

 

[Betty P]

I've been looking for all of George's pre-trial hearings just to listen and see what all was said/done. I admit I didn't follow those closely as they happened and often just read here what was discussed. I have been looking for any statements the defense made during those hearings. I found this and then saw your comment @Betty P AC talks about the deals being offered to all 4 and that all 4 had equal treatment as far as offering a deal.

Dec 22, 2021

Thanks, that probably took a lot of research. It would take a month to catalogue all of those pre-trial hearing videos, there were soooo many. JMO, at first it seemed like LE would never arrest anyone for the murders, then it seemed like they would never make it to trial. The pre-trial phase lasted nearly 4 years, mostly due to GW4's attorneys. They argued so long over the evidence. The demanded all the recordings be transcribed - all of them. Once that was completed, they said there was too much evidence, so they demanded the court hire a legal expert to organized all the evidence. That cost about $10,000 IIRC and took several months.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Here's an update for those who have questions about whether the court still has to allow GW4 or Billy the sentence of LWOP, per Jake's plea agreement.

• Jake's plea agreement was negotiated by prosecutors and included provisions to also provide LWOP for AW, GW4 and Billy if they also entered into plea agreements
• GW4's attorneys filed a motion - Motion 73 asking Judge Deering to rule that the LWOP sentence Jake negotiated for them still apply even if the others went to trial
• The judge held a hearing allowing both sides to argue, then issued a decision against GW4. The reason was that under Ohio law, judges determine sentences in the trial process, after juries have found a defendant guilty of charges. Prosecutors determine sentences under plea agreements with defendants with final approval by the judge. The negotiated LWOP was part of Jake's plea agreement. Only the prosecution can change that sentence.

Pretty sure these are the relevant docket entries for this (docket for GW4 is massive, with over 100 motions filed)

09/24/2021

MOTION #73--MOTION TO DISMISS AGGRAVATED MURDER COUNTS AND/OR DEATH SPECIFICATIONS FILED Attorney: NASH, JR, RICHARD M AND Attorney: PARKER, JOHN PATRICK

Part of huge journal entry containing decision on Motion #73

On December 16, 2021, the Defendant filed Motion No. 76, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF SHOEPRINT EVIDENCE AND OPINIONS." The State of Ohio shall file a response to Defendant's Motion No. 76 on or before January 21, 2022. The Court then proceeded to hear the oral arguments of counsel for the Defendant in support of Defendant's Motion No. 73, filed on September 24, 2021, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS AGGRAVATED MURDER COUNTS AND/OR DEATH SPECIFICATIONS," and to hear the oral arguments of the State of Ohio's counsel in opposition to such motion. Having been fully informed in the premises through the stipulations of counsel, and through the oral and written arguments of counsel, the Court finds that Defendant's Motion No. 73 is not well taken, and it is ordered that Defendant's Motion No. 73 is hereby overruled and denied.

@PrairieWind should clarify, but the motion was denied because only the prosecution can alter Jake's plea agreement, the Judge cannot. If GW4 chooses to go to trial, he's subject to sentencing guidelines for the trial process according to Ohio law with the Judge determining a sentence if the jury renders a guilty verdict.

https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/eservices/searchresults.page?x=-KwLtCmPpS54zXU*KNw4p2939kwTuqfQURyIMPVQitIS3Id6BTjNK254WvtBhCDpnPMNIegxCCdG7rI-T9BPrw

This is absolutely fascinating. I learn so much here. But George4 and Billy are idiots to roll the dice on the death penalty. It's not just the horrific end result; it's that death row is the worst place to do time.

 

[arielilane]

Hey!



That is about 56 to 63 days - wonder why my notes say 30 days for trial... must have picked that up in an article. I shall correct my notes - if this true - 8 to 9 weeks.




from my notes:

DA will seek the DP. Per Jake’s plea agreement, DP is off the table if his testimony is truthful.

BIG IF!




I did not realize that the jury was DP certified ! Thanks!




Thank you for this explanation - now I get it! LOL!

You read right. It initially was a 30-day trial.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Thanks, that probably took a lot of research. It would take a month to catalogue all of those pre-trial hearing videos, there were soooo many. JMO, at first it seemed like LE would never arrest anyone for the murders, then it seemed like they would never make it to trial. The pre-trial phase lasted nearly 4 years, mostly due to GW4's attorneys. They argued so long over the evidence. The demanded all the recordings be transcribed - all of them. Once that was completed, they said there was too much evidence, so they demanded the court hire a legal expert to organized all the evidence. That cost about $10,000 IIRC and took several months.

That's why all of this is taking so long. The defense just wants to grind down the state, the judge, the prosecutors, the witnesses, the families, and the public.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It shows George did not go to the murder scenes, Jake didn't need help. Looks better for his client. Adds more weight that George wasn't there and did not shoot anyone. I don't know why George's defense doesn't mention Billy.

Jake says he doesn't know who shot who but they do know for sure Jake shot people. Perhaps Billy's attorneys are planning the same thing, that Jake did it all.

I don't know why George's defense doesn't mention Billy.

Billy could be a surprise witness for the defense. If he gets up there and swears George was at Peterson RD that night and did not know what Jake and Angie did or planned to do, then it is what we like to call down here a Mexican standoff, without the Mexicans.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Please cite where it shows George did not go to any of the murder scenes.

JMO

No evidence that he did.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Does anyone have a link to where GW4s attorney says GW4 was there to protect JW from BW?

Been searching and unable to find it thus far.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I rewatched AC opening statement again late last night. Apparently, EA would write out her thoughts then throw them away. AC said Angela would go through the trash & that's how she found the journal notes.

I don't remember hearing that in EA's testimony but it's what AC said.

AC said a lot of things in her opening statement that has since been proved to be wrong.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don't think George's attorneys admitted in any Motion or Court Hearing that George was at any of the murder scenes. They might have mentioned that Jake and Angela's proffers say that, but that is not the same thing. Big difference.

They said George vehemently denies being involved with the murders and that he never shot anyone. And now at opening statements they say he wasn't at the murder scenes and didn't know about them until the next day.

So I would like to see video proof with the time stamp where an attorney for George actually admits his client was at the murder scenes.

The posts on here are correct, a murder defense attorney isn't going to say in pre-trial hearings that his client is at murder scenes (regardless of the reason) then say in opening arguments at the actual trial that now suddenly their client really was never at the murder scenes and knew nothing about that night until after the fact.

So if Nash or Parker told the Court George was at the murder scenes, I want proof on video or proof they said it in a Motion.

A DP attorney doesn't tell an open court at a pre-trial hearing that his client went along on 8 murders, but in his opening statement says his client didn't actually go and didn't know what happened that night.

It's Jake who says his brother was there, George says he wasn't so it's his word against Jake.

It's up to the Jury to believe or disbelieve Jake's testimony. If the jury believes Jake that his brother helped before hand and went along to the crime scenes then George will get convicted most likely.

If the jury thinks Jake is a liar throwing his brother under the bus then George could be acquitted of murder.

@Cool Cats

The one thing I love about you is you always have the facts.
JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I wonder if this forum reflects the way the jury thinks. Half of them think George is guilty and the other half doesn't?

If so we could be looking at a hung jury.

JMO

 

[Niner]

You read right. It initially was a 30-day trial.

Okay - thanks! I have changed it to 8 to 9 weeks now.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think there is likely tangible evidence that George bought and disposed of the vehicle, apart from whatever testimony Jake gives. For example, G4 gave the murder truck to a relative, who can testify. If he bought the truck, the seller can testify. And so on.

Well we know he didn't dispose of it. Billy did. Gave it to his niece Katy before sunrise the next morning.

All we know about the buying is Billy told his cousin he would buy it and George went with Jake and Angie to buy it.

That could be because as Chris N said "George was a great mechanic. Way better mechanic than me." So maybe George went along to check out the truck to make sure it was mechanically sound?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I re-watched opening statements late last night. According to AC (Jake’s proffer) Billy bought the truck from his cousin. The morning after murders it was Billy who drove to his brother’s house in Athens, arriving before sunrise & gave truck to his niece Katie. His brother drove him back home. Katie transferred title to her name that same day, 4/22/16.

AC said Silas W, Katy W, and Robert W. will all testify to that.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Does anyone have a link to where GW4s attorney says GW4 was there to protect JW from BW?

I have never heard P&N say that and I have watched them all. So I know I don't have one.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Also, I'm fairly certain, the plea agreement offer for GW4 and Billy Wagner is still open. Not sure how they go about stopping a trial once it's begun, but assume they might be able to do so if they notify prosecution that they want to enter into a plea agreement based on Jake's.

When you hear AC mention the plea agreement and the LWOP provisions for all the family members, she's referring to the agreement's terms that applies to GW4 and Billy, should they enter an agreement.

According to the prosecution, the plea agreements were offered to Jake and AW (and potentially the others) with the primary purpose of saving the victim's families the agony of having to go through 4 consecutive trials, after holding out since 2016 for justice. The families approve the terms of all the plea agreements in this case.

So Jake did not sacrifice himself to save his families lives after all did he? I knew I just couldn't see Jake in the role of sacrificial lamb.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

CC
Didn’t Nash say that when it was told in the Proffer that Jake never shot nobody than Jake told about GW4 moving bodies and standing at little Chris door watching to make sure he didn’t get up that is when Nash got up and said the only reason that GW4 was there was to protect Jake, and was this in one of the pre-trials when the BCI argent was getting questioned? JMO

Do you have a link so we can all watch it? I thought Nash was talking about what was in jake's proffer.

JMO