OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

[Cool Cats]

I don't think for a minute think he wasn't an active part of the W4's regular kitchen conversations and plans. IMO, he was no outsider. The evidence so far shows him as an active participant in those enmeshed kitchen table family decisions for all of his adult life. EW's testimony confirmed the same.

<modsnip - personalizing>

JMO

I agree George is guilty up to his eyeballs but not sure he would be found guilty without Jake and Angela's testimony.

Most of George being involved seems to be from his co-defendant's testimony.

George's brother might have got him a life sentence instead of a chance of acquittal.

The co-defendant's turning on George is what is sinking him. He should never have given up his speedy trial rights and he should have had his trial before Jake threw him under the bus.

I believe he is guilty and could write a few pages as to why, so I am glad that George will be found guilty of murder. There is no way he will win this trial, not with co-defendant's turning State's evidence against him. Not happening.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Parker said in a motion that Jake Wagner “clearly stated that George did not shoot anybody … was not supposed to go with Jake and Billy on this murder spree, and only went at the last second to protect Jake from Billy, who it was thought might kill Jake at the end of the series of aggravated murders.”
Parker said it not Nash.

Do you have a link so we can all watch it. There were so many pre trial hearings in this case.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

@Cool Cats

The one thing I love about you is you always have the facts.
JMO

The one thing I love about you is you are never afraid to give your opinion even when most of the thread is of the opposite opinion - don't agree with you.

It's because of you I don't think there is enough evidence against George without his 2 co-defendant's turning on him.

 

[NWLady]

And he didn't warn his friend Frankie that his murderous father and brother were coming to kill him and his family. He didn't call Chris, Sr. to warn him about the ambush. He didn't call police. He didn't enlist his grandmother to help him talk his family out of committing 8 murders.

And, IF George wanted to break away from the family and him and his son move elsewhere (as his attorneys are trying to lead the jury to believe), then why didn't he??!!

What held you back, George? Was it because you'd lose your built-in babysitter (your mommy)? Was it because you would now have to pay your own bills? Was it because even you were too scared of YOUR own family that you didn't leave? Was it because it would be less likely, that being out on your own and being responsible for your child, that you would have to change some of your own alleged staying out late at night, etc? Was it because you wouldn't have mommy there to instruct/direct you in sooooo many aspects of your personal life, including your sexual relations? And I could go on and on....
But point being, George, IF you wanted to leave/break away from the rest of your family so bad, as your defense says/presents, then WHY didn't you???

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Parker said in a motion that Jake Wagner “clearly stated that George did not shoot anybody … was not supposed to go with Jake and Billy on this murder spree, and only went at the last second to protect Jake from Billy, who it was thought might kill Jake at the end of the series of aggravated murders.”

Ohio law holds, however, that someone involved in a conspiracy to commit murder is as guilty as the person who actually carries out the killing.

“Even if he didn’t pull the trigger, even if he were not there, he can still be convicted on a complicity theory or an accessory theory,” Allen said.

Ohio, like other death-penalty states, has had difficulty obtaining lethal-injection drugs. DeWine has put executions on hold until state legislators approve another method. Ohio’s last execution was in 2018.

George Wagner’s attorneys contend that their client should not be tried on the basis of his family’s past.

Jake Wagner “clearly stated that George did not shoot anybody … was not supposed to go with Jake and Billy on this murder spree, and only went at the last second to protect Jake from Billy, who it was thought might kill Jake at the end of the series of aggravated murders.”


Jake said it. Not George's attorneys. Parker was just repeating what Jake said in his proffer.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

Thanks, that probably took a lot of research. It would take a month to catalogue all of those pre-trial hearing videos, there were soooo many. JMO, at first it seemed like LE would never arrest anyone for the murders, then it seemed like they would never make it to trial. The pre-trial phase lasted nearly 4 years, mostly due to GW4's attorneys. They argued so long over the evidence. The demanded all the recordings be transcribed - all of them. Once that was completed, they said there was too much evidence, so they demanded the court hire a legal expert to organized all the evidence. That cost about $10,000 IIRC and took several months.

It wasn't too long finding this one. I checked George's case file here: https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/eservices/search.page.3?x=vwv5RCISl8CkNNMhmVvbbA

I checked dates that it lists for pre-trial hearings and then tried to look at the motions filed before that and the notes the court entered about the hearing. I then went to YouTube and searched George Wagner pretrial and the date for a hearing I think might be something I was looking for. I sure wish Law and Crime had a playlist for this trial like they do other trials that are going on. It would help!

Oh and once I find a video I want to check out there is three dots down hear the title of the video and you can click that and there is a button that says transcribe and I then skim over the transcription to see if they are talking about what I want to find. lol

You've done a lot to gather and post a record of media and other things in the media thread! It's much appreciated!

 

[Cool Cats]

Jake Wagner “clearly stated that George did not shoot anybody … was not supposed to go with Jake and Billy on this murder spree, and only went at the last second to protect Jake from Billy, who it was thought might kill Jake at the end of the series of aggravated murders.”


Jake said it. Not George's attorneys. Parker was just repeating what Jake said in his proffer.

JMO

Point I have been trying to make. Thank you. George's defense attorneys are not going to tell the jury their client went on a murder spree. Just George going along will get him convicted. You can't go along on 8 murders and get acquitted.

 

[Willow Knight]

But, as AC said, while GW is facing the DP, if JW testifies truthful it comes off the table. JW's testimony was the trade for that. If they all took a deal, why would the prosecution need JWs testimony?

And listen to AC's opening statement -- his confession got JW his sentence and his testimony takes the DP off the table for his family. She says it clear as day

The proffer got JW the death spec removed and the testimony got DP to go away for thr family if he's truthful. She calls it "the second part of the agreement" was to remove the DP from the family and AC said "we told him we would not do it unless he agreed to testify"

2:33:45

I've read this many times, but it just really sunk in. GW4 has nothing to lose by pleading not guilty. The only deal GW4 could make, IMO, was taking the DP off the table. JW did that for him. Now GW4 can take his chance at trial with the possibility of a not guilty verdict.

It's possible this could have been pre planned. The family appeared to discuss everything.

Can one imagine Jake's ex-wife living in that home for a few months after hearing about the murder of the Rhoden family, and at what point did she realize they were possibly guilty. The fear, the stress she had to go through, I just want to protect her. And I have to believe she is stressed over the possibility GW4 could be released.

I try to make a conscious effort to release positive energy daily. There are times when I just can't.

 

[Betty P]

It wasn't too long finding this one. I checked George's case file here: https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/eservices/search.page.3?x=vwv5RCISl8CkNNMhmVvbbA

I checked dates that it lists for pre-trial hearings and then tried to look at the motions filed before that and the notes the court entered about the hearing. I then went to YouTube and searched George Wagner pretrial and the date for a hearing I think might be something I was looking for. I sure wish Law and Crime had a playlist for this trial like they do other trials that are going on. It would help!

Oh and once I find a video I want to check out there is three dots down hear the title of the video and you can click that and there is a button that says transcribe and I then skim over the transcription to see if they are talking about what I want to find. lol

You've done a lot to gather and post a record of media and other things in the media thread! It's much appreciated!

Yes, that's the docket. Thanks for checking. I've given up on cataloguing all the videos for now. I still update the timeline some. I'll probably be able to do more after my cataract surgery. My vision has been going downhill, especially lately. We have a Media & Timelines thread for all the Rhoden Murder info.

 

[justtrish]

I hope we get to hear the entire proffer in court. That will take up many many days because AC stated Jake talked to them for 12 hours, but I think it will be important to show exactly what was said and then exactly how/why Jake changed his story.

I have a feeling he was trying to protect George. The defense would try to throw it out there that Jake threw George under the bus and lied in the proffer by pulling out a few statements made (in the pre-trial hearing I posted early today they had 10 statements they wanted to present to defend their position. 10 statements from a 12 hour proffer)

Jake knows the DP will be off the table, but he's never getting out of prison ever.. he agrees.

I think when they present the 2 different shoe prints in 2 different sizes to Jake he says, he was there, but he didn't shoot anyone. Again trying to minimize George's role thinking he wouldn't be charged with murder.

Maybe then they inform Jake it doesn't matter that George didn't shoot he's still guilty of murder same as Jake is.

So then let's say Jake says George was just there to protect Jake thinking that makes George look innocent of murder charges somehow because he was defending Jake against potential danger from Billy.. then they say to Jake, nope he's still guilty of murder.

Changing a story doesn't mean he was trying to pin it on George, but quite the opposite, I think he was trying to reduce George's role so someone could be out and take care of the kids, maybe break them out of jail like they discussed so many times.

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't come up with a story to tell if they were all arrested (just like they did in those conversations about if various people are arrested and another isn't, who gets the kids, maybe they had a plan for if everyone is arrested).

I have a feeling it might have been Angela they wanted to keep out of trouble initially, but when BCI was presenting her with the Walmart receipts and then the custody documents on the laptop, she knew she was in too far with the paper trail she left.

So I really hope we hear the entire proffer so we can put to rest the idea that Jake just lied to somehow pin things on poor old innocent George. <modsnip> I would never say George and innocent go beside each other.

 

[justtrish]

I've read this many times, but it just really sunk in. GW4 has nothing to lose by pleading not guilty. The only deal GW4 could make, IMO, was taking the DP off the table. JW did that for him. Now GW4 can take his chance at trial with the possibility of a not guilty verdict.

It's possible this could have been pre planned. The family appeared to discuss everything.

Can one imagine Jake's ex-wife living in that home for a few months after hearing about the murder of the Rhoden family, and at what point did she realize they were possibly guilty. The fear, the stress she had to go through, I just want to protect her. And I have to believe she is stressed over the possibility GW4 could be released.

I try to make a conscious effort to release positive energy daily. There are times when I just can't.

I JUST mentioned this also!! I think that is possible and that what we see in Jake's proffer with some changes to his story might have been his way of testing the waters. I hope we hear the entire proffer so we can hear exactly what was said and how it came to be he changed his story. Very different if he was attempting to minimize George's role and then they informed him of something they knew or how the law worked and then he changed his story.

Imagine if in his proffer he says exactly what Beth did. They had plans for each scenario about arrests and who would get the kids. Plans to get the others out, etc.

It's easy it just think oh Jake lied if we only hear pieces of his proffer.. but hearing it in it's entirety will show the nature of those "lies" because it does matter.

I think most people who start to confess try to do some minimizing somehow and not necessarily lie, but not be overly detailed so they or someone else doesn't look "too bad". Then when presented with some information or even just prosecutors saying, we believe there is more to this or wow so how did xyz happen then and the person is forced to be more specific.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The one thing I love about you is you are never afraid to give your opinion even when most of the thread is of the opposite opinion - don't agree with you.

<modsnip: off topic>

I stood firm in the opinion all 4 of the Wagners were guilty for 6 1/2 years until this trial. But I am a call it like I see it person. After 28 days of listening to evidence presented I just don't see any against George only.

I see tons of evidence against Jake and Angie. I think that evidence is what drove Jake to a plea deal, not any concern for George or Billy. I think the only thing Jake did was throw George under the bus to get his precious mommy a sweet plea deal.

So unless I see some evidence against George only I will continue to stand by what I see and state my opinion on it.

This constant regurgitation of evidence against Jake and Angie by the prosecution to try to overload the jurors minds with useless trivia to try and get them to convict George is sickening.

So Where's the beef AC?

JMO

 

[justtrish]

Parker said in a motion that Jake Wagner “clearly stated that George did not shoot anybody … was not supposed to go with Jake and Billy on this murder spree, and only went at the last second to protect Jake from Billy, who it was thought might kill Jake at the end of the series of aggravated murders.”
Parker said it not Nash.

The pretrial I posted earlier, the defense had 10 or 12 statements they wanted to introduce from Jake's proffer. AC objected because the defense wanted to use those statements out of context and the proffer in it's entirety was 12 hours long so those statements they wanted to use to get George's murder charges dropped were only statements and not the entire proffer. It's possible Jake started with George went to protect Jake thinking it would help George not have murder charges, but once explained that it doesn't matter why he went he was there, helped plan, etc then he was just as guilty. Same thing when he says he didn't shoot anyone. That doesn't remove his culpability in the charges because the murder charges don't require he shot any of the victims. It was just defense trying to use single statements to get charges dropped.

I'd also point out that if Parker says "George wasn't supposed to go" then that would suggest that George knew about it if he wasn't supposed to go. How would he knew he wasn't supposed to go to a murder spree unless he knew about the murder spree about to take place?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

OK. Got it but let me just run it by you...
So, if GW4 pleas guilty mid trial, or accepts plea deal, his harshest sentence is LWOP.

If GW4 is found guilty by jury, his harshest sentence is still LWOP.

However, both scenarios are dictated by JW adhering to the terms of his (JW) plea deal when he (JW) testifies. If JW does not adhere to his plea deal testimony, DP is back on table for everyone. Correct?

And what if Jake changes his story on the witness stand and says he lied and George knew nothing, did nothing?

I almost believe AC is as naive as Beth in trusting anything Jake says. Jake is a liar and manipulator just like Angie. Jake could turn on AC on a dime and betray her, just like he did both Hannah and Beth.

LMAO

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

CC
Didn’t Nash say that when it was told in the Proffer that Jake never shot nobody than Jake told about GW4 moving bodies and standing at little Chris door watching to make sure he didn’t get up that is when Nash got up and said the only reason that GW4 was there was to protect Jake, and was this in one of the pre-trials when the BCI argent was getting questioned? JMO

I would be shocked to see any defense attorney stand up in court and say the only reason my client moved bodies shot multiple times and guarded a 16 year old's bedroom door so he could be shot 4 times in the head, was to protect his brother from his father.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

ow does it benefit Jake to lie is my question.

Jake did everything he could to protect George in his proffer. Jake admitted to killing FR, HHG, DR, CR & HR. Jake named Billy as the killer of CR, GR, and KR. And, according to Jake, GW WAS there and he was supposed to take the first shot but he didn't.

The prosecution has conceded George did not shoot/kill anyone *based on Jake's proffer. That stipulation "based on Jake's proffer" locks Jake in while leaving the door open in case new evidence shows something different. Once the prosecution made that concession, GW's defense used it to their advantage to say "George didn't shoot anyone, George wasn't even there.

But here's the thing I don't understand about the claims of Jake lying. We had evidence but we didn't know the story of what actually happened, how they planned & carried it off. We had so many questions. Without Jake's confession, the surviving families would never have known what happened to their loved ones. Justice is crucial but it's also must consider the importance of getting answers for the families.

I cannot imagine any person who has followed this case for 7 years doesn't want to hear what happened. Jake's testimony will fill in so many missing blanks. I have my own suspicions about exactly how truthful he was on a few details s hungry as everyone posting here is for information, I find it ridiculous to discount his testimony.

I know it’s been mentioned several times so this is just a reminder: at the beginning of every thread there’s link to another thread containing all the media collected & saved by dedicated members. It holds a wealth of information.

Just an FYI to anyone doing searches.

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

Please post links to media, articles, photos, timelines etc. here relating to the case of the murder of 8 members of the Rhoden Family of Piketon, OH. No discussion, please. Link to WS Rules Link to WS Copyright Rules Thank you!

www.websleuths.com

BBM

There is an old saying "he will tell a lie when the truth would be better." That's Jake in a nutshell. He lies just to be lying. Just like when he told Beth in AK that he owned the house the W's were living in and his family was renting it from him. What purpose was there for him to lie about that when she would certainly find out the truth soon.

JMO

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I don't know why George's defense doesn't mention Billy.

Billy could be a surprise witness for the defense. If he gets up there and swears George was at Peterson RD that night and did not know what Jake and Angie did or planned to do, then it is what we like to call down here a Mexican standoff, without the Mexicans.

JMO

Billy can't testify for George because he'd be putting himself on death row.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

So Jake did not sacrifice himself to save his families lives after all did he? I knew I just couldn't see Jake in the role of sacrificial lamb.

JMO

He gave the whole family a shot at avoiding the death penalty. He could have just thought of himself but again, all for one, one for all.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

All we know about the buying is Billy told his cousin he would buy it and George went with Jake and Angie to buy it.

That could be because as Chris N said "George was a great mechanic. Way better mechanic than me." So maybe George went along to check out the truck to make sure it was mechanically sound?

JMO

So George was there when the murder truck was purchased. Along with Jake and Angie. Was Billy there? Who signed the title? Looking forward to learning all of that. So one more instance of all 4 Wagners involved in the planning of the massacre and the acquisition of the means to do it.

 

[Willow Knight]

Sleuthers,
Have you all forgot about attorney Nash stood up in one of GW4 pre-trials and said the only reason that GW4 was at the murder scene was to protect Jake, he said Billy might have killed Jake also that night so he was there to protect little brother, WHY! JMO

So is pre-trial statements allowed to be used as evidence? According to this attorney Nash places GW4 at the murder scene. Nash also states to protect Jake, not the other victims. If I was on the jury, I would interpret this as GW4 wanted to make certain only Rhoden family members were murdered and not his brother Jake.