OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

[RAISINISBACK]

Jake knew what his attorneys knew, which was everything the state turned over to him. By the time he took the plea deal, nearly all of the evidence had been provided to his attorneys. Had they done otherwise, they could have lost their licenses to practice law. Death Penalty cases are closely scrutinized.

During pre-trial, the other defendants couldn't communicate with each other. So no one knew if another was negotiating a plea deal until after it was signed.

During pre-trial, the other defendants couldn't communicate with each other.

You are forgetting RW visiting with them all and those three way phone calls between Angie and Jake.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

My guess isJake believed the footprints would put George firmly at the scene because George WAS at the scene. Just a hunch. Still waiting for the shoe/foot expert to testify. BCI didn't take all those foot measurements & foam impressions for nothing. And there's a reason the shoes were sitting out Friday (?) morning but they didn't get to them.

JMO but if Jake is lying...well...I still have issues with him saying Hanna saw him but coroner says she was shot from behind (did he talk to her?, did he tell her he won?). And the number of times HHG (5) & DR (6?) were shot. (Did he talk to Dana?) Those are the kind of things I believe he would keep to himself.

Any thoughts on whether we'll hear a recording of Jake's confession before he actually testifies?

there's a reason the shoes were sitting out Friday (?) morning but they didn't get to them.

Could be the same reason they never get to that burned DVR.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thinking as a juror hearing Jake changed his story until he told the truth (AC’s view), wouldn’t you be thinking ‘or Jake changed his story until he found one the prosecutor’s wanted to hear’? I’m pretty cynical and that is what I would think and discount Jake’s testimony. I’ll be shocked if the defense doesn’t bring this up for the jury’s consideration.

MOO

I hope they do.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Do you know if the attorneys for co-defendants were allowed to sit in on the pre-trial hearings for the others? So when George had a pre-trial in early April 2021 would Jake's attorneys be allowed to sit in? Just trying to piece together the timing of Jake's plea with maybe the hearings for other co defendants.

I don't see why they could not attend all the hearings. I do know the judge gave an order that all attorneys for all defendants have access to talk to co defendants for as long and as many times as they wanted to.

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

So why is it such a stretch that Jake and Angie planned and carried out the murders without George knowing anything about it.

Maybe because Beth lived with them for 14 weeks. Chris knew them well, lived next door for a year but he didn't live in the same house with them. George lived with them 24/7/365 for 25+ years. JMO

I think I am going to do that. Treat the proffers as rumor not fact.

Since the proffers haven't been introduced into evidence yet, it wouldn't hurt any of us to act like we don't know anything about them. Only consider evidence presented thus far.

That's totally different than treating them as rumors though.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Your Quote:
Any thoughts on whether we'll hear a recording of Jake's confession before he actually testifies?

****************************************************************************************************

We heard his guilty confession when he went to court and pled guilty.

A proffer is nothing more than testimony the defendant gives the prosecution - normally in exchange for a plea deal.

When Jake is on the stand and gives his testimony, we will be hearing what he said in his proffer. We will be hearing the testimony he gave the prosecution.

I do not think Jake's actual proffer will be given to the media and the prosecution may not even use - when Jake is on the stand - all of his testimony that he gave them.

But hopefully the media will have many tweets and articles about what Jake says on the stand, so then we will get a clearer picture of that night. A clearer picture of what Jake said in his proffer.

Poor jury, has to decide what to believe. How believable will Jake sound to the Jury? The jury could believe some of his testimony but not all of it, or think he is a total fake lier, or think he did a really good job and find him quite believeable.

Juries decide if they believe any witness. Some they believe, some they don't, some they partially believe.

I don't see them believing him if he starts that smirky grinning and snickering while he is testifying.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't see them believing him if he starts that smirky grinning and snickering while he is testifying.

JMO

A real turn off if he smiles. He kept smiling in his hearings. It was creepy. Even mentioned in MSM.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Maybe because Beth lived with them for 14 weeks. Chris knew them well, lived next door for a year but he didn't live in the same house with them. George lived with them 24/7/365 for 25+ years. JMO



Since the proffers haven't been introduced into evidence yet, it wouldn't hurt any of us to act like we don't know anything about them. Only consider evidence presented thus far.

That's totally different than treating them as rumors though.

JMO

George lived with them 24/7/365

Remember according to testimony given by Chris N, Randa H and Beth A. George was gone off hunting, partying or visiting his ummm girlfriends.

Chris N testified that George stayed away from home as much as he could. Not hard to plan while he was gone and shut up when he came home.

JMO

 

[Willow Knight]

What evidence? If you would list out what you see as evidence against only George, kind of separate the gold from all the dirt, that would be so helpful to me and possibly others. TIA

As an aside there was a motion filed by the defense Friday for a court paid expert. I guess you could say a prostitute is an expert of sorts. LMAO

JMO

I'm not seeing evidence against only GW4, I'm seeing evidence of a family that planned and carried out a mass murder together. Beth's testimony specifically. Beth is able to state she heard and saw the family meetings where they discussed everything. Even what they would do if one of them were arrested. Beth convinced me that GW4 knew and participated in the cover up.

Beth lived with that Wagner family for app 3 months in OH, when she left she heard and saw enough to convince her that the Wagners committed the murders including GW4. I do not believe GW4 could live in that family during the planning, committing, and aftermath of the Roden murders without knowing and being involved.

Here is one example from her testimony:

***Armer even said George and Jake would plot against law enforcement lead BCI agent Scheiderer and then-attorney general Mike DeWine.

They also plotted how they would escape prison if anyone were convicted.

“They were loudly discussing creating some kind of electric weapon that they would use to harm Mark DeWine, Ryan not Mark DeWine, Mike DeWine, Ryan and various other law enforcement people they were annoyed by,” Armer said. “There was discussion about creating a bulletproof bulldozer, which could be driven through the walls of an enclosure such as a prison with which to break people out of jail.”***

https://dayton247now.com/news/local/wagner-trial-cincinnati-ohio-rhodens-gilley-murders-weapons-texts-jake-angela-billy-ammunition-hanna-bci-shoeprint-florida

 

[rebelchild]

<modsnip: off topic>

I stood firm in the opinion all 4 of the Wagners were guilty for 6 1/2 years until this trial. But I am a call it like I see it person. After 28 days of listening to evidence presented I just don't see any against George only.

I see tons of evidence against Jake and Angie. I think that evidence is what drove Jake to a plea deal, not any concern for George or Billy. I think the only thing Jake did was throw George under the bus to get his precious mommy a sweet plea deal.

So unless I see some evidence against George only I will continue to stand by what I see and state my opinion on it.

This constant regurgitation of evidence against Jake and Angie by the prosecution to try to overload the jurors minds with useless trivia to try and get them to convict George is sickening.

So Where's the beef AC?

JMO

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you are leaning towards the idea that GW4 lived in the same house, spent all of his time with his mom and brother and sometimes his dad, and never knew they were planning this massacre? And then spent all of his time with them after the murders and never knew or helped cover up what they did to 8 people? Never once questioned them?

I'm just trying to wrap my head around this .. I understand some of what you are saying but I also think the reason we are hearing more about Jake and Angela is because this whole case is about custody of Jakes child... not GW4's. They have to show the text messages between Jake and Hannah .. and the screen shots that Angela took from getting on Hannah's fb account to show the motive behind this senseless act. Of course this is going to look like the JW show .. but JW did not pull this off by himself .. and he certainly did not pull it off with just his mom.

I also would like to know where AW's tattoo is .. the three men sure wanted bragging rights after the fact. I'm surprised she didn't want in on that. She could have had Anime Mommy put on her bicep. Or whatever the heck she called herself.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I'm not seeing evidence against only GW4, I'm seeing evidence of a family that planned and carried out a mass murder together. Beth's testimony specifically. Beth is able to state she heard and saw the family meetings where they discussed everything. Even what they would do if one of them were arrested. Beth convinced me that GW4 knew and participated in the cover up.

Beth lived with that Wagner family for app 3 months in OH, when she left she heard and saw enough to convince her that the Wagners committed the murders including GW4. I do not believe GW4 could live in that family during the planning, committing, and aftermath of the Roden murders without knowing and being involved.

Here is one example from her testimony:

***Armer even said George and Jake would plot against law enforcement lead BCI agent Scheiderer and then-attorney general Mike DeWine.

They also plotted how they would escape prison if anyone were convicted.

“They were loudly discussing creating some kind of electric weapon that they would use to harm Mark DeWine, Ryan not Mark DeWine, Mike DeWine, Ryan and various other law enforcement people they were annoyed by,” Armer said. “There was discussion about creating a bulletproof bulldozer, which could be driven through the walls of an enclosure such as a prison with which to break people out of jail.”***

https://dayton247now.com/news/local/wagner-trial-cincinnati-ohio-rhodens-gilley-murders-weapons-texts-jake-angela-billy-ammunition-hanna-bci-shoeprint-florida

I'm not seeing evidence against only GW4, I'm seeing evidence of a family that planned and carried out a mass murder together.

But only George is on trial, not his whole family. This is George's time to shine, not his entire family. The jury is instructed to consider only evidence against the defendant. What his family did is not evidence against him.

Chris N was in on those escape plans too. But he is not in jail or on trial. And the stuff they were talking about was ridiculous. Building a bulletproof bulldozer. Making a electronic device to get BCI agents. I would say those guys had a little too much of Jack, Jim or Jose during those laughable conversations.

JMO

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you are leaning towards the idea that GW4 lived in the same house, spent all of his time with his mom and brother and sometimes his dad, and never knew they were planning this massacre? And then spent all of his time with them after the murders and never knew or helped cover up what they did to 8 people? Never once questioned them?

I'm just trying to wrap my head around this .. I understand some of what you are saying but I also think the reason we are hearing more about Jake and Angela is because this whole case is about custody of Jakes child... not GW4's. They have to show the text messages between Jake and Hannah .. and the screen shots that Angela took from getting on Hannah's fb account to show the motive behind this senseless act. Of course this is going to look like the JW show .. but JW did not pull this off by himself .. and he certainly did not pull it off with just his mom.

I also would like to know where AW's tattoo is .. the three men sure wanted bragging rights after the fact. I'm surprised she didn't want in on that. She could have had Anime Mommy put on her bicep. Or whatever the heck she called herself.

I never heard it mentioned Angie had a tattoo. I assume you are guessing she may have got one since the others got them.

 

[gizmobtj]

I am sure FW and RW who visited them all kept Jake well informed as did Rita and Chris N.

JMO

But how would FW, RW, Rita or Chris N know who the prosecution had a deal with or what evidence they had? Those four would only know media reports and what the prosecutors told them

 

[SuziQ]

Lord help us we must be enmeshed too. My daughter lived on my land 17 yrs and when she moved out my son moved in. I have a grandson having a hard and I s
send him money and take him food when he needs it. They are mine and I won't allow them to go homeless or hungry. So I guess I'm a proud enmeshed tribe, i love having them close.

But do you plan and commit crimes together? Terrorize and hurt your daughter's significant others? You just can't compare a normal family to a dysfunctional one. Imo.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you are leaning towards the idea that GW4 lived in the same house, spent all of his time with his mom and brother and sometimes his dad, and never knew they were planning this massacre? And then spent all of his time with them after the murders and never knew or helped cover up what they did to 8 people? Never once questioned them?

I'm just trying to wrap my head around this .. I understand some of what you are saying but I also think the reason we are hearing more about Jake and Angela is because this whole case is about custody of Jakes child... not GW4's. They have to show the text messages between Jake and Hannah .. and the screen shots that Angela took from getting on Hannah's fb account to show the motive behind this senseless act. Of course this is going to look like the JW show .. but JW did not pull this off by himself .. and he certainly did not pull it off with just his mom.

I also would like to know where AW's tattoo is .. the three men sure wanted bragging rights after the fact. I'm surprised she didn't want in on that. She could have had Anime Mommy put on her bicep. Or whatever the heck she called herself.

I think it was easy for them to plan when George was gone. But I do think he knew afterwards.

About those tattoos. Did you know that tattoo that George got is a favorite among truck drivers? Motorcycle riders also. Even one of the guys on deadliest catch TV show had a tattoo similar to Georges.

The 8 ball is the last ball put in the pocket in a pool game so is considered good luck. 4 aces is a winning hand which is also considered good luck. So truck drivers hope for good luck out on the road but the skull is an acknowledgement that one mistake can cost them their life while driving.

40 8 Ball Tattoo Designs for Men

Discover shred gamesmanship and the cornerstone of any billiards match with the top 40 best 8 ball tattoo designs for men. Explore cool pool ball ink ideas.

nextluxury.com

Scroll down about halfway on this site and you will see the exact same tattoo George has. A lot of them add the skull, either around the 8 ball or in it or to the side of it.

Google was my friend on this along with a client who is an OTR truck driver. He said those tattoos are very popular in the south.

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

During pre-trial, the other defendants couldn't communicate with each other.

You are forgetting RW visiting with them all and those three way phone calls between

JMO

Didn't AW lose her phone & mail privileges over that in Sept. 2019? Amost 2 years before Jake confessed April 2021.

Robin seems like a kind & caring aunt. As far as FW helping out, I'd bet my last dollar FW couldn't care less if AW rots in jail & wouldn't lift a finger to help her. I'm not so sure Robin would either.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

But how would FW, RW, Rita or Chris N know who the prosecution had a deal with or what evidence they had? Those four would only know media reports and what the prosecutors told them

You don't think if they talked to Jake when they visited he wouldn't have told them?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Didn't AW lose her phone & mail privileges over that in Sept. 2019? Amost 2 years before Jake confessed April 2021.

Robin seems like a kind & caring aunt. As far as FW helping out, I'd bet my last dollar FW couldn't care less if AW rots in jail & wouldn't lift a finger to help her. I'm not so sure Robin would either.

Doesn't mean they didn't visit and relay messages to her from Jake.

JMO

 

[rebelchild]

I never heard it mentioned Angie had a tattoo. I assume you are guessing she may have got one since the others got them.

I meant I'm surprised she didn't want in on the bragging rights and get a tattoo for herself.

 

[Betty P]

It's not unusual. Many families do it. How many of you remember that TV show Dallas? Old Miss Ellie kept her sons, DILs and GK's living right in the house on Southfork with her and Jock.

A lot of poor people and wealthy people all live together in the same house or on the same land. Very common.

JMO

Yes, agree. Living together with your family doesn't mean you're enmeshed. Many of us do it with our children, as needed. There's a lot more involved than just sharing a home.