OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #80

[joe jones]

Prosecution has to make sure the confession fits the evidence.

An investigator or prosecutor should never try to make a confession fit the evidence. They should follow the evidence where ever it goes. Period. If the confession does not fit the evidence, then the confession is a lie. Plain and simple. People lie, evidence does not lie.

JMO

JW confession should have matched the evidence from the crimes, the state should not tailor his confession to align with the evidence they collected, or how they found the victims,

In this trial I admit the state have gone so far out of their way to bolster the confession of JW it is damning IMO, they have protected him at every turn so the jury do not get to see the constant lies he told to LE, the jury have not been allowed to hear JW interview at the border, the state has not entered into evidence any of the times JW was interviewed lest the jury see what a cunning liar he is,

and then the man who admits to 5 murders 8 if you are GW defense team was allowed to tell the jury that God spoke to him and told him to confess, and he is so regretful and sorry for what he has done,

I think he is enjoying testifying, especially as he knows there will be no recording,

 

[justtrish]

JW confession should have matched the evidence from the crimes, the state should not tailor his confession to align with the evidence they collected, or how they found the victims,

In this trial I admit the state have gone so far out of their way to bolster the confession of JW it is damning IMO, they have protected him at every turn so the jury do not get to see the constant lies he told to LE, the jury have not been allowed to hear JW interview at the border, the state has not entered into evidence any of the times JW was interviewed lest the jury see what a cunning liar he is,

and then the man who admits to 5 murders 8 if you are GW defense team was allowed to tell the jury that God spoke to him and told him to confess, and he is so regretful and sorry for what he has done,

I think he is enjoying testifying, especially as he knows there will be no recording,

But they all lied and evaded police and the prosecution is not allowed to play George's tapes of all his lies. So to only show that Jake lies when he's getting on the stand really would not be fair because George lied a lot as well and to then paint him as a saint who didn't know? He has a right not to take the stand so if I understand correctly, the state can't play any statements George made to LE only the defense can introduce that, but I feel like there was an issue with that because if they introduce anything George has said, then George has to take the stand to be able to be cross examined by the prosecution. He has a right not to, but then he also can't have any statements he made played. So they don't need to play Jake's statements because he's on the stand and they can just ask him if he previously lied to LE.

 

[dgfred]

Hmmm. Maybe saw the light from the phone from under the door? Do y'all think he didn't do or did do something else?

3 weapons used at CRs... maybe 3 people? Seems right.

After murders 2 boys maybe feeling bad/sad/guilty/etc about the murders and one Seal Team 7 team member not so much. Mom wishing she had not put that on the 'boy' with maybe her and hubby doing alone. Sounds like she didn't but would have been more than willing to. Probably didn't 'trust' the boys with the grandbabies anyway.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Angenette reported correctly what happened in court, we were not there, and I think she is a very good reporter who reports the facts, JW got a great deal, whether it was the best deal ever I don't know, but if you admit to killing 5 members of one family 8 if you are defense and you get the DP removed I think you have got a great deal, defense was being a bit hyperbolic with his best deal ever,

and GW would never get as good a deal as JW as he was offered no DP but LWOP as was BW if they took a plea, AC said this in court during pretrial hearings, why would GW get the same deal as his brother, even JW says GW killed nobody, so they are not equal deals, and if GW is not guilty then why would he even take a plea deal, it is only the word of JW that places GW and BW at any of the crime scenes,

and I am thinking more and more of what JW is selling stinks to high heaven,he is telling the jury that he and BW who is a mountain of a man crept through FR house, and crept into FR bedroom together, I find that hard to believe, there was stuff all over the floors big BW should have been wearing a tutu to achieve that feat as he would have been as light and agile as a ballerina to negotiate past all the rubbish,

another thing of note according to JW it was raining and storming when he got to DR, but all 3 W went into DR home and nobody left any mud behind, but we have according to state a shoeprint in blood in the home, how did that blood stay on anybody's shoe, by the time they got to DR house they had walked back and forth to FR home, they had been in and out of vehicles, yet this one foot had blood on it still,

I am not as hung up on shoe print evidence no matter how expert the expert says he is, a half size difference in shoe size would not sway me into convicting GW if all the state has is shoe prints and JW
AC has told us though that they have very damaging evidence from the truck recordings, and she must have other evidence we haven't seen imo

I am thinking more and more of what JW is selling stinks to high heaven

I am absolutely smelling what Jake is stepping in. 800 miles away.

if GW is not guilty then why would he even take a plea deal, it is only the word of JW that places GW and BW at any of the crime scenes,

There is no way I would plead guilty to something I did not do.

hung up on shoe print evidence no matter how expert the expert says he is, a half size difference in shoe size would not sway me into convicting GW if all the state has is shoe prints and JW

Doesn't anyone wonder why AC has showed that burned DVR numerous times when she stated in her opening that she knows it has nothing to do with the murders? Or why she trotted out hours of testimony about guns she knew were not the murder weapons? Or why the hours of testimony on casings she knew did not match the caliber guns used at the crime scenes.

That is the same thing with that shoe print. She keeps those shoes or shoe sitting in front of the witness stand. Why? Maybe because the expert in his report could not say what size the bloody print was?

Or could it be because as you said:

another thing of note according to JW it was raining and storming when he got to DR, but all 3 W went into DR home and nobody left any mud behind, but we have according to state a shoeprint in blood in the home, how did that blood stay on anybody's shoe, by the time they got to DR house they had walked back and forth to FR home, they had been in and out of vehicles, yet this one foot had blood on it still,

The only thing I have to say is I have seen NO evidence George was in on the planning, at the scenes, or covered up anything. And what about those damning statements from the semi that both Jake and Canepa admits George knew was being recorded? Did George admit he killed anyone on them? Because him getting angry about the pressure BCI was putting on him doesn't fly with me. Anyone would get angry if they were innocent and law enforcement kept following them around, going to their employer, bugging their vehicles and house. To me that is harassment. So yes I can understand why George blew up and vented his frustrations. I think those "damning statements" by George are going to fall as flat as those phone calls Canepa played in court when Parker said in front of the jury that George was upset because he was afraid the guy they sold the house to would sue him because BCI was tearing up everything.

Maybe Jake and Canepa needs to stay out of the cow pasture since what they are both stepping in stinks to high heaven.

Give me some solid evidence George even knew anything about what was going on or get this clown show over with. I hope the jury sees what AC is doing.

JMO

 

[JustaboyFromMS]

Is there anyway to get a full transcript of Jake Wagner's testimony?

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Prosecution has to make sure the confession fits the evidence.

An investigator or prosecutor should never try to make a confession fit the evidence. They should follow the evidence where ever it goes. Period. If the confession does not fit the evidence, then the confession is a lie. Plain and simple. People lie, evidence does not lie.

JMO

Another way of saying this is when you take a confession, you see if it fits the evidence--"make sure it fits the evidence"--before accepting the confession. That is, it would be stupid to put credence into a confession that made no sense.

The only thing I'm convinced of is if there are 3 guns, I'm thinking 3 shooters. And I can't see Jake doing a home invasion alone and killing 8 people. Billy and G4 were there and therefore guilty based on the charges.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

OMG....laughing and belches?????

Yeah buddy.

He laughed and belched all through his testimony about killing the mother of his child, a woman he professed to love, a woman breast feeding her four day old infant, like the memory of her left a sour taste in his mouth and a foul wind in his gut.

Wonder what the jury thought about that?

Watch the video a few pages back from WCPO 9 where the reporter talks about it.

Click on the link to You Tube to watch.
JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes, you're correct as usual, there were different bullets found to have killed HR and FR than the bullets that killed CRsr. and GR at that crime scene.

I don't know how to break this news to everyone, but it is a known fact one person can carry more than one gun on them at once.

They walk around here with a pistol strapped to each hip and an AR-15 slung over their shoulder. In broad daylight, out on the sidewalk, in public view.

JMO

 

[dgfred]

Hey Raisin. Cheer up a little. For me

I have customers that belch in front of me all the time. A couple I am sure can not help it. Others do say 'excuse me' tho.
Now the laughing is horrid... but don't some people laugh when really nervous? Very unfortunate.

As far as GW and BW being at/shooting others it doesn't really matter as long as they can be put at CRs... which in my opinion they do. The evidence at least at that crime scene fits pretty good IMO.

Anyway... can't stand to see you riled up so.

 

[joe jones]

But they all lied and evaded police and the prosecution is not allowed to play George's tapes of all his lies. So to only show that Jake lies when he's getting on the stand really would not be fair because George lied a lot as well and to then paint him as a saint who didn't know? He has a right not to take the stand so if I understand correctly, the state can't play any statements George made to LE only the defense can introduce that, but I feel like there was an issue with that because if they introduce anything George has said, then George has to take the stand to be able to be cross examined by the prosecution. He has a right not to, but then he also can't have any statements he made played. So they don't need to play Jake's statements because he's on the stand and they can just ask him if he previously lied to LE.

state could have played GW interview, as they played AW, they chose not to play GW or JW, JW spoke to them for hours, not sure how long GW spoke, but if GW interview would have aided the state, they would have played it, I have never seen a prosecution not wish to play interviews, they argued hard to not play JW interview,

 

[dgfred]

How would a hit by JW alone go at CRs? With Mom?
Seems like the 'story' of the murder (at least at CRs) seems right in line.

You need BW to set up. You need someone to fire on CR at least surprising him (not allowing him or other victim to get gun). You already 'fixed up' your truck to hide people. You really do need a little backup IMO.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Another way of saying this is when you take a confession, you see if it fits the evidence--"make sure it fits the evidence"--before accepting the confession. That is, it would be stupid to put credence into a confession that made no sense.

The only thing I'm convinced of is if there are 3 guns, I'm thinking 3 shooters. And I can't see Jake doing a home invasion alone and killing 8 people. Billy and G4 were there and therefore guilty based on the charges.

there are 3 guns, I'm thinking 3 shooters.

So you have never thought 3 guns = 1 shooter?

Because I see that all the time here. People who walk around with a pistol on each hip and an AR-15 slung over their shoulder, walking down the sidewalk, in plain view.

So a .40 caliber on one hip in a holster, a 1911 .22 in a holster on the other hip and a .30 caliber rifle slung over their shoulder with a strap. 3 guns = 1 psychopath.

JMO

 

[joe jones]

I don't know how to break this news to everyone, but it is a known fact one person can carry more than one gun on them at once.

They walk around here with a pistol strapped to each hip and an AR-15 slung over their shoulder. In broad daylight, out on the sidewalk, in public view.

JMO

they only needed 1 gun at a time, fire at CRsr by making a noise outside so he came to door, put that gun down go inside with the Glock kill CRsr and GR, kill DR HR CRjr FR HG with Colt, go to KR kill him with Glock,

I could see one person being able to do it, not sure if one did but it's possible, I question everything, it is the state that argues that the murdering began after that phone call from Crsr to BW phone, that comes from JW, timing could be completely different the phone call to BW phone could have nothing to do with a ruse to find BW phone, could just be a call from one friend to another

I take nothing as being proven until it is,

 

[arielilane]

Pike County murder trial: Experts testify about ballistics, shoeprint evidence

09/28/2022 (BBM and italic)

On Monday, prosecution called Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations agent Matt White to the stand. White is a firearms examiner with the state agency, and he was the expert who examined and identified much of the ballistic evidence collected in all four crime scenes and during all eight autopsies.

White continued his testimony on Tuesday, explaining how he compared the different ballistic evidence collected from the victims and the crime scenes.

White said he believed all of the .30 caliber bullets recovered from the first crime scene, where Chris Sr. and Gary were found dead, were fired from the same gun. No cartridges for that firearm were ever recovered for comparison.

White then worked to try and identify what kind of firearm likely would have fired the bullets. An SKS rifle was the likely culprit for the .30 caliber high-powered rounds discovered at Chris Sr.'s house, White said. That particular gun is not extremely common, he said.

He went on to say he believed, through comparison techniques, that the .40 caliber bullets and casings recovered from the first scene, where Chris Sr. and Gary were killed, and the fourth scene, where Kenneth was killed, were all fired from the same .40 caliber weapon.





After reaching out to other firearms experts, a BCI agent in Bowling Green, Ohio said he'd encountered similar characteristics from a Walther Colt 1911 pistol. White said he examined several test fires with several different Walther Colt 1911 pistols and corresponded with the manufacturer's design engineer in Germany. He ultimately determined this was the kind of gun used to fire the .22 caliber shots that killed Frankie and Hannah Hazel at the second crime scene and Dana, Chris Jr. and Hanna May at the third crime scene.

 

[justtrish]

state could have played GW interview, as they played AW, they chose not to play GW or JW, JW spoke to them for hours, not sure how long GW spoke, but if GW interview would have aided the state, they would have played it, I have never seen a prosecution not wish to play interviews, they argued hard to not play JW interview,

I was under the impression that they state could not play GW's because it would be as if they were forcing him to testify and he can choose not to take the stand. If they played his tape and he didn't take the stand, then he was not able to defend himself about what was on the tape. AW's interview was played because it showed she lied about the shoes and that furthered their investigation. The defense wanted to play JW's simply to discredit him before he took the stand and the argument then was the defense could cross examine JW when he was on the stand about lies he may have told.

 

[dgfred]

But that would be: JW drives up at CRs, jumps out loaded down, fires the rifle at CR wounding him only, somehow rushes in to both shoot CR and another in the head several times... all without being fired on himself.

Receipt for 2 pair of murder shoes. 3 ski mask. Several silencers. Truck fixed to hide several people if needed. There is more I am missing.

 

[arielilane]

I don't know how to break this news to everyone, but it is a known fact one person can carry more than one gun on them at once.

They walk around here with a pistol strapped to each hip and an AR-15 slung over their shoulder. In broad daylight, out on the sidewalk, in public view.

JMO

Agreed. Especially when they're cray cray and thinking maybe I'll be the lead in Walking Tall or whatever the name of that movie was. I love your passion. I'm with you on a lot of what you convey here. Your health is most important and I'm certain it's more important than any of the Wagner killers.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

To be fair, we don't know how many stories he told or if they don't line up. We didn't hear his entire proffer. We have heard what AC said in opening, which is not his direct words, that is her words. Just like the defense can say whatever they want in opening and then never mentioned it again or they can present something else.

We don't know what Jake's initial story of that night was. It very well could have been a basic watered down version so he himself could take all the blame and minimize the others involvement. That does not equal lying in my opinion. When he confessed to his lawyers initially he said he would go to trial because he wasn't telling on the others. At some point that changed and he decided to take a deal. I don't think this is lying or changing his story. The lawyers could take the case to trial and make the state prove their case. They can not let Jake get on the stand to say he didn't do it, if he already told them he did, but continuing to trial is not a crime.

I also don't think AC said give us all 4 or no deal. I think she said we have evidence to show everyone was involved somehow (this is how conspiracy works so each didn't have to actually shoot anyone and maybe they had to explain to Jake how that works) and if you aren't telling the truth and if our evidence isn't matching your version then the deal is off. That is very different from saying, we have no evidence and we want you to place everyone there or trying to get him to change his story entirely.

His lawyers are not going to encourage him to lie either or knowingly let him lie to AC. They could be in big trouble and it's in their clients best interest to get this deal which hinges on telling the truth.

Jake very well could have told different versions entirely, but we don't know that because we haven't heard the proffer. What we have heard in court so far based on tweets, which is very limited and not allowing us to hear tone or all the questions being asked before answers are given.. it's very hard to tell if he was asked to be more specific and then added something WE haven't heard before. That does not mean AC hasn't heard that before.

The only people that know if Jake is not living up to what he agreed to in his deal is the prosecution and Jake.

What about the two stories he told, one on direct and the other on cross while laughing and belching his way through it?

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

there are 3 guns, I'm thinking 3 shooters.

So you have never thought 3 guns = 1 shooter?

Because I see that all the time here. People who walk around with a pistol on each hip and an AR-15 slung over their shoulder, walking down the sidewalk, in plain view.

So a .40 caliber on one hip in a holster, a 1911 .22 in a holster on the other hip and a .30 caliber rifle slung over their shoulder with a strap. 3 guns = 1 psychopath.

JMO

You're right, although that's not the norm where I'm from.
I just said if 3 guns were used in this scenario, I would bet that 3 different people used them. Why leave more evidence than necessary? Why point to the exact number of people invading those homes? That's just my opinion. I've always thought all three of them were in it but hey, I could be wrong.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Pike County murder trial: Experts testify about ballistics, shoeprint evidence

09/28/2022 (BBM and italic)

On Monday, prosecution called Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations agent Matt White to the stand. White is a firearms examiner with the state agency, and he was the expert who examined and identified much of the ballistic evidence collected in all four crime scenes and during all eight autopsies.

White continued his testimony on Tuesday, explaining how he compared the different ballistic evidence collected from the victims and the crime scenes.

White said he believed all of the .30 caliber bullets recovered from the first crime scene, where Chris Sr. and Gary were found dead, were fired from the same gun. No cartridges for that firearm were ever recovered for comparison.

White then worked to try and identify what kind of firearm likely would have fired the bullets. An SKS rifle was the likely culprit for the .30 caliber high-powered rounds discovered at Chris Sr.'s house, White said. That particular gun is not extremely common, he said.

He went on to say he believed, through comparison techniques, that the .40 caliber bullets and casings recovered from the first scene, where Chris Sr. and Gary were killed, and the fourth scene, where Kenneth was killed, were all fired from the same .40 caliber weapon.





After reaching out to other firearms experts, a BCI agent in Bowling Green, Ohio said he'd encountered similar characteristics from a Walther Colt 1911 pistol. White said he examined several test fires with several different Walther Colt 1911 pistols and corresponded with the manufacturer's design engineer in Germany. He ultimately determined this was the kind of gun used to fire the .22 caliber shots that killed Frankie and Hannah Hazel at the second crime scene and Dana, Chris Jr. and Hanna May at the third crime scene.

This is most helpful.