OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

[Betty P]

I highly doubt they would have ever been offered an Alford plea, once JW caved and agreed to testify the state probably thought they would find it easier to convict the other 3, then AW caved so they have no use of BW or GW pleading to anything, as they have nothing to offer

they can plead Guilty, and get same sentence as JW, but I don't understand why they would, I would have gone to trial and made state prove their case,

I do find it interesting that when they charged all 4 the states theory was GW and JW did all the killing, and it was only when JW confessed, and he insisted that GW did not shoot that night that the state accepted that, to me that shows that pre-JW confession (as I have posted all along) the state didn't know and couldn't prove who shot who, there theory was GW and JW, and they still cannot prove who shot who, it relies upon whether you think JW is telling the truth

I think this bodes well for BW, as I am sure his defense will argue that the state only changed their mind on who shot who when JW confessed, up to that point BW was not considered to have been a shooter, and from the tweets and media reporting IMO it was BW who was seen to have had less of culpability in states eyes pre-JW confession, MVHOO

JW told the state he and BW did the planning when they were off driving the trucks, AW bought the stuff for the silencers etc, and he moved GW from being a shooter/murderer to not, and he moved GW out of the planning,

the state told JW that they believe AW was more involved than he revealed in his confession, but they have accepted his proffer as it is, and it is up to the jury to decide what they believe

It still doesn't bode well for either GW4 or JW. There's already plenty of evidence to convict them of Aggravated Murder, without having to prove who shot whom.

The evidence shows they were both involved in planning, cover up and were present at the scenes - that's Conspiracy and Aggravated Burglary, which makes them automatically guilty of Aggravated Murder. It's nearly impossible for a jury to vote otherwise on those charges. The state has made its case.

 

[Myland]

Yes, they were all offered LWOP as part of Jake's plea agreement. After Jake's confession in court, everyone sort of waited around to see which family members would take the offer of LWOP.

There was a waiting period because the others had to be told about Jake's confession and the offer to them for LWOP if they confess, too. Angela announced next with a separate plea deal. GW4 and Billy decided to refuse the offer and go to trial separately. At first, GW4's defense team tried to use the "have your cake and eat it, too" argument that the judge allow them to both go to trial and default to the LWOP deal if they were found guilty.

Judge said he couldn't do that, as the LWOP plea agreement was under the control of the state prosecution, not him.

Still, I suspect if they both decided to agree to those plea deals today, the state would still honor them. They're basically trying to avoid the ongoing pressure and trauma to the victim's family and spare the state the cost of more capital trials.

Jmo I believe Angela stated Friday they would discuss the taking the death penalty off outside of public view after Jake finished. Jmo

 

[Betty P]

Jmo I believe Angela stated Friday they would discuss the taking the death penalty off outside of public view after Jake finished. Jmo

Thanks, I read that in the reporters Tweets.

The state is being very fair in this situation, I think. They want a resolution. There's more than enough evidence and testimony to show they were all very involved in the murders.

If the state works out a deal for GW4 and Billy, it will make Nash and Palmer look bad, knowing they went to the trouble and expense of a trial when they could have just negotiated a deal for their client. Not to mention what they've put the grieving family members through.

 

[Piffcat]

jakes testimony/plea was a huge win for the families far as convictions go and no more gaslighting odd off the wall alternate theories by defense lawyers. however the results justice wise are disgusting. our criminal court justice system is an absolute joke. reasonable doubt has turned into "beyond a shadow of a doubt" these 4 freaks murdered 8 people in cold blood. anyone of them could have stopped it. it was a crime against humanity not just the rhodens. even with all the evidence and thorough investigation they still had to make a deal with the literal devil. this is due to the fact that convicting a murderer without dna or a video of the killing nearly impossible. the problem with precedant law in criminal proceedings is that it only increases the killers rights but never diminishes them. appeal results are either confirmig the previous precedent or increasing the protection of killers by the appeal court enhancing the precedent. slowly but surely this equation has benefitted defense lawyers pockets and the ease to commit murder without paying for it. the fear of a mistrial or appeal becomes so likely that during the initial trial so much deference is shown to the defendant so as to not have an issue on appeal. the problem is this comes at the expense of the victims and survivors. i would have rather seen the state roll the dice without jake if it meant taking the dp off for all 4. this deal is a travesty of justice and sign of the times. everyone seems to be obsessed with danger of "mistrial" in the incident of the recording has no effect on the fariness of the trial at all. except that it goes against deerings decision which i believe missaplied the law to begin with. how does jakes testimony being heard equal not having a fair trial??

 

[joe jones]

It still doesn't bode well for either GW4 or JW. There's already plenty of evidence to convict them of Aggravated Murder, without having to prove who shot whom.

The evidence shows they were both involved in planning, cover up and were present at the scenes - that's Conspiracy and Aggravated Burglary, which makes them automatically guilty of Aggravated Murder. It's nearly impossible for a jury to vote otherwise on those charges. The state has made its case.

I however think differently, you have to believe JW in order to convict, and in the jury instructions the Judge will read and by which the jury has to follow, he will give them an instruction about JW struck a deal for his testimony, and he has gained something in exchange for his testimony, and you (the jury) can consider this fact when weighing up JW testimony,

the defense appears to have moved from their original position in opening that GW wasn't there, I am very confused by this, as you rightly point out just being at the scenes would lead one to think GW could be convicted of one of the underlying felonies and that would lead to him being G of aggravated murder,

and by just being there he could be said to be a part of the conspiracy, so I am very confused as to the defenses position now,

IANAL so I do not know if there is anything that could be argued by the defense that allows for a person to go along to protect somebody, I highly doubt it,

I will watch (don't all laugh in the cheap seats) and wait to see what their next move is

 

[FonescaFan]

I guess for me it's sort of simple. I believe that it was a conspiracy the 4 of them cooked up. They took different roles but planned it together. Billy, Jake and George went to the 4 homes together and left together. They got home together and burned the clothes together.

What supports this for me is how much criming the family did from the time the kids were small. Theft, arson, burglary, drugs, frauds of various kinds. All of them, from Angela selling puppies from the pound to the others to burning their own house down, they stuck together, never turned anyone in. Jake's testimony was that he was taught how to hide evidence the way my dad taught me how to wash a car properly. These are criminals. It makes no sense that any of them would go out to murder 8 (or more, had anyone else been there) people without taking the others as backup, if nothing else. Really, there's not all that much evidence against JAKE, other than his confession. Without his testimony and whatever Angela told them, all the state would have is that 4 people planned this, carried it out, and covered it up.

And finally, I don't see George as all that much different than Jake in how he treated his wife, the selfish way he wanted to sever her ties with their child, and how he would allow his mother to bully and threaten her.

Does anyone else wonder what other types of crimes Billy and Angela taught their kids? No one seemed phased about having to plan and commit multiple homicides. IMO.

 

[Chingaling]

It's about 10 minutes long, and he describes being inside DR's home that night, iirc. It's him, that voice... he's got a distinct voice. It's still up at the SciotoValleyGuardian.com site. I used a lightweight browser (Seamonkey) to view. Idk of it's still permitted to link to the vid or not. Hope this helps!

Yeah I tried that, it throws my computer into fits and the video won't play. Was hoping there was an alternative to SVG.

 

[Seattle1]

Yeah I tried that, it throws my computer into fits and the video won't play. Was hoping there was an alternative to SVG.

I viewed the 10 min video using Win-10/Chrome laptop and did not have any problems. That said -- you've not missed anything! The audio is bad-- what sounds like a creaking chair and paper shuffling with close caption text playing out on the screen. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Yes! Even took her social security card. I think that was part of "joining the family" where she'd be the next unsuspecting victim with property in her name only because she had a clean insurance record. MOO

"Joining the family". And he's the one who feared cults and demons... Demons walk the earth but they're human, like him.

 

[Seattle1]

Does anyone else wonder what other types of crimes Billy and Angela taught their kids? No one seemed phased about having to plan and commit multiple homicides. IMO.

From Jake's testimony, appears they were taught crime pays since early childhood:


He told jurors that when he was 10 or 11 years old, his father, Billy Wagner, taught him how to pick locks, then showed him how to break into vending machines, and eventually steal cattle, vehicles and fuel from semi-trucks.

Parker also questioned Jake Wagner about his mother, Angela Wagner.

"Your mother would burn down houses for money?" Parker asked.

"I mean, yes" Jake Wagner answered.

He said one time the family built "a big nice house" using materials that were stolen.

Jake Wagner also said his mother would breed dogs and sell them as purebreds when they were not.

Jake Wagner admits he was raised a criminal, turned into cold-blooded killer

In Pike County on Friday, Jake Wagner admitted to it all.

www.wlwt.com

Published: Oct. 28, 2022 at 1:15 AM PDT|Updated: 8 hours ago


WAVERLY, Ohio (WXIX) - Jake Wagner grew up learning to be a criminal at home from his dad.

Billy Wagner “gave me the basics” how to pick locks when he was as young as 10 years old. “I was taught how to steal trucks. I was very good.”

He also excelled at fires, setting his family’s garage ablaze the first time they set their house ablaze for the insurance money. They burned their home down twice, he said on the stand Friday.
“I was 10 or 11,” he recalled.

The second time they burned their house down, he said, they filled a crock pot with chicken, put it on a propane stove and it spilled over, igniting in flames.

He said they made sure Chris Rhoden Sr. was there as a witness. He was the one who called 911.

In other highlights of Jake Wagner’s testimony earlier Friday:

• He said he was home-schooled by their mother, Angela Wagner. She was supposed to administer their tests, but Jake said his mother filled out his test papers for social studies, history, English and psychology. “I wasn’t doing that crap. I didn’t need it. I was a truck driver and farmer. I didn’t need those things.”
• George Wagner’s attorney on cross got Jake Wagner to admit he can’t remember everything: “My memory is like a jigsaw puzzle with a few extra pieces.”
• Billy Wagner, didn’t believe in going to doctors. When Jake was hurt as a teenager, his father would “use duct tape and black electric tape to mend the wounds.”
• He said his dad sold a trailer full of stolen items for $100,000 in Mexico. When he came home, he brought a suitcase full of $100,000 in cash and gave it to his son to count. He bought Jake Wagner a custom pickup truck that cost $60,000.
• When the Wagners burned down two of their homes for insurance money, did they bury any money there? Jake said no. But: “We did bury money in Mexico.”

‘I was very good’ Jake Wagner says he grew up learning to be a criminal from his dad

The trial will begin its eighth week on Monday at 9 a.m.

www.fox19.com

 

[rsd1200]

I missed a fair amount of the early witnesses (due to so many opting out of being recorded and gave up for a little while) but do we know what size of shoe Billie wore? And if it's been mentioned why AW only bought two pair of shoes for the murder spree when 3 men were going?

I nearly gave up too. So I spent time going over opening statements and the Tweets and those who were summarizing for us were so helpful as well, or I'd have just waited for a verdict. It's here, I paused it at the place where AC states:

Jake indicated that he wore the size 10 and a half that night and that george wore the size 11 that night
um and you will see that that size 11 that i told you that was in scene 3 at dana's place is almost exactly where he
says that george was stationed to make sure that little chris didn't come out of his room

Opening Statements
YOUTUBE LINK

 

[Seattle1]

I missed a fair amount of the early witnesses (due to so many opting out of being recorded and gave up for a little while) but do we know what size of shoe Billie wore? And if it's been mentioned why AW only bought two pair of shoes for the murder spree when 3 men were going?

From the testimony, I'm not recalling that the shoe sizes of any of the defendants have been mentioned, only that the expert witnessed testified about the bloody shoe impressions from two, left shoes, sizes 10.5 and 11 which corroborates the shoe purchases by AW.

'I Had No Other Choice': Jake Wagner Goes into Chilling Detail About Pike Co. Massacre, Cites Child Molestation Fears as Motive

Jake Wagner claimed the tipping point came when he discussed his concerns with Hanna May Rhoden about their daughter possibly being molested.

lawandcrime.com

[..]

Jake Wagner also described going with his mother, Angela, to Walmart and instructing her to buy “ugly shoes.” Angela Wagner bought two pairs of velcro, Athletic Works gym shoes in sizes 10.5 and 11 as the two brothers and their children waited in the car in the parking lot. Wagner said the shoes were purchased for him and his brother to wear. Wagner said he ordered a Captain America Winter Soldier mask for his brother, George. A signal jammer had also been purchased, Wagner said, to keep the victims from placing outgoing calls to 911.

[..]

ETA: From Opening Statements, AC provided Jake wore the size 10.5 and George the 11.

 

[justtrish]

I think Hanna’s contact with Tabitha made Angela (and George) fear she would get some custody time. There are cases in the domestic violence literature where a parent has the other parent murdered to avoid ANY shared custody.

I meant why did he need to sign it when Jake did? Why did they have the same document saying the same thing about their kids going to Angela if something happened to them? Because they both were heading out to commit murder and if the worst case happened and George was killed, he wanted Vine to go to Angela. I guess it's possible he just happened to think about what if I randomly die while living my life I better get this document forged, but the fact they both signed them at the same time makes me think it's because he was about to be involved in whatever Jake admitted to being involved in that night of the 21st.

 

[justtrish]

From the testimony, I'm not recalling that the shoe sizes of any of the defendants have been mentioned, only that the expert witnessed testified about the bloody shoe impressions from two, left shoes, sizes 10.5 and 11 which corroborates the shoe purchases by AW.

'I Had No Other Choice': Jake Wagner Goes into Chilling Detail About Pike Co. Massacre, Cites Child Molestation Fears as Motive

Jake Wagner claimed the tipping point came when he discussed his concerns with Hanna May Rhoden about their daughter possibly being molested.

lawandcrime.com

[..]

Jake Wagner also described going with his mother, Angela, to Walmart and instructing her to buy “ugly shoes.” Angela Wagner bought two pairs of velcro, Athletic Works gym shoes in sizes 10.5 and 11 as the two brothers and their children waited in the car in the parking lot. Wagner said the shoes were purchased for him and his brother to wear. Wagner said he ordered a Captain America Winter Soldier mask for his brother, George. A signal jammer had also been purchased, Wagner said, to keep the victims from placing outgoing calls to 911.

[..]

I don't think they have said their shoe sizes. They did have the BCI agent that testified he did the foot impressions of Jake, George, and Billy that the expert they were using requested. I believe it was a gel mold or something like that. We haven't heard any more about those and I suspect if/when they call that shoe print expert we will hear more about it and maybe hear exactly what size each of their feet are.

 

[rsd1200]

Would an Alford plea still be available for GWIV and GWIII? They would not be admitting guilt using that…

That ship may have sailed. At least for G4. If he is convicted, and it is DP, he'll probably still die in jail awaiting appeals. That's why I hope they all do get LWOP. Note JW did this to help his family, the prosecution said. Mr. Altruistic. Had he had any feelings for his daughter's family, or especially her, he'd have also said, he didn't want them/HER to suffer through endless appeals if he and his kin were sentenced to the DP.

 

[Cool Cats]

There is information on there I have not seen anywhere else. Thank you

Very interesting old archives. Fred and Bob marriage photo, Robin age 24, Billy name change, he changed it to George Washington Wagner, explains why he is called Billy. etc...

https://mobile.twitter.com/henrikvanger2

 

[rsd1200]

You're welcome.

https://twitter.com/Angenette5

Parker when questioning Jake about prison: Have you ever been told that you have a start mouth? Since you've been incarcerated? Jake has been told this.

CORRECTION: smart mouth - not start mouth. Typo

Thanks so much. I thought it was that, but there's new slang invented everyday so I thought I'd ask.

 

[justtrish]

^^bbm
Wasn't that statement made by AC in her opening that both defendants (charged with 8 counts of murder) going to trial were each offered life as opposed to potential death penalties? IMO, I'd say that's a real offer!

This was from the opening statement about the deal Jake got and offering a deal to anyone else that came forward.

And we made an offer to the rest of the individuals that if anyone came forward, we purposely did not release Jake statement. We did not provide that to anybody, nobody except the attorneys and our lead agent knew the contents of that proffer. And we said that if anyone else came forward and could tell us something that was consistent with what we had just heard, that would do two things for us.


It would it would demonstrate that Jake telling us the truth. Right. And it would just be stronger corroborating evidence that that another member of the Wagner family was giving the same information without knowing exactly what Jake had said. Right. And that person that came forward was Angela Wagner. She came forward in September of 2021, about five months after Jake had come forward.


Her deal was a little better, a lot better, actually. She agreed to a 30 year sentence. And obviously, she's older. She will be almost 80 when she gets out under that deal. It's still a really hard pill to swallow because she freely admits, quite honestly, you could tell Jake tried to minimize his mom's involvement, kind of also tried to minimize George's involvement to some extent.


But Angela did not Angela did not minimize own involvement. In fact, she will tell you that it was her idea to begin with and that she nagged and nagged and nagged Billy to figure out a solution to the problem. The problem being that we're losing control of Sophia, right where she's over here, and we don't know what's going on with her.

 

[geevee]

I don't think they have said their shoe sizes. They did have the BCI agent that testified he did the foot impressions of Jake, George, and Billy that the expert they were using requested. I believe it was a gel mold or something like that. We haven't heard any more about those and I suspect if/when they call that shoe print expert we will hear more about it and maybe hear exactly what size each of their feet are.

I hope so!

And thanks for all the replies, everyone, I really want to know what size Billy wears and why AW only bought two pair, it doesn't fit at all with the 'kitchen table plan' JW spoke of.

 

[justtrish]

I highly doubt they would have ever been offered an Alford plea, once JW caved and agreed to testify the state probably thought they would find it easier to convict the other 3, then AW caved so they have no use of BW or GW pleading to anything, as they have nothing to offer

they can plead Guilty, and get same sentence as JW, but I don't understand why they would, I would have gone to trial and made state prove their case,

I do find it interesting that when they charged all 4 the states theory was GW and JW did all the killing, and it was only when JW confessed, and he insisted that GW did not shoot that night that the state accepted that, to me that shows that pre-JW confession (as I have posted all along) the state didn't know and couldn't prove who shot who, there theory was GW and JW, and they still cannot prove who shot who, it relies upon whether you think JW is telling the truth

I think this bodes well for BW, as I am sure his defense will argue that the state only changed their mind on who shot who when JW confessed, up to that point BW was not considered to have been a shooter, and from the tweets and media reporting IMO it was BW who was seen to have had less of culpability in states eyes pre-JW confession, MVHOO

JW told the state he and BW did the planning when they were off driving the trucks, AW bought the stuff for the silencers etc, and he moved GW from being a shooter/murderer to not, and he moved GW out of the planning,

the state told JW that they believe AW was more involved than he revealed in his confession, but they have accepted his proffer as it is, and it is up to the jury to decide what they believe

I think it's important to note that in the eyes of Ohio law for these charges, it doesn't really matter who shot who, if one did shot and one didn't or if everyone shot some, or one shot everyone and both others didn't shoot at all. It matters that they were all participants in the planning, execution of the plan, and cover up/clean up after.

I think the defense tactic is to convince the jury George didn't shoot so they hope it confuses even one of them about how the charges with conspiracy work. George didn't have to shoot to be guilty on all charges. At this point, I think the stradegy is to confuse the jury, muddy the waters and hope one juror is confused and because they don't think George fired a gun that night, they will vote not guilty.

It will be important for the judge to give clear instructions on how the law is to be applied and I have faith that some jurors will understand it well enough to explain it if during deliberations some jurors are getting hung up on that.