OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

[arielilane]

Glad to learn AW is testifying today. Appreciate your updates and tweet-postings. ETA: There are some good photos on twitter of AW entering the courthouse.

Photos are posted on page 18 of this thread.

 

[rsd1200]

It would have been 1986 that he was 15

Ooops, my bad. Thanks for the correction! Wrong bro.

 

[ColMustard]

Another "solvent trap" ......

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vaccap.com

 

[arielilane]

The Honorable is overdue for a manicure. Seriously. IMO

 

[rsd1200]

I've been reluctant to wade into this debate about mental health, but I think it has gotten a bit off kitler. Not every killer is a psychopath or has ASPD and not every psychopath or person with ASPD is a killer.

I think there is a stronger case for Obessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD, not OCD) for AW and JW given the control, the meticulous behavior, the mission oriented nature, the micromanaging of lives, the belief that there way is the right way and the only way, etc. There are lots of ways to get to killing people that don't involve ASPD. Not to say one does not exclude the other, but I dont see the impulsiveness of ASPD. Most clinical researchers now believe personality and personality disorders are on a spectrum, so symptoms of both would be possible but when I look at anything that remotely looks like a motive, I see OCPD. People with OCPD also tend to be super protective of their families because, according to Karen Horny, they Move Toward others for safety.

And one other thing tracks with OCPD -- the confessions. People with Cluster C disorders (Avoidant, Dependent and OCPD) are more likely to confess. And our two confession come from the ones who demonstrate those symptoms.

Also, think of little things. What on Earth does JW get for mouthing "I'm sorry" to the Rhoden family? His sentence can't be reduced. Forgiveness is a pipe dream. No one is going to like him any better or think he is less of a monster. So, what other reason other than remorse? A not-so-bright psychopath might taunt them and attack them and a bright one would likely be vacant. So, what is that if not remorse? Which is another OCPD offender quality.

Homicidal behaviour among people with avoidant, dependent and obsessive-compulsive (cluster C) personality disorder - PubMed

Cluster C personality disorders are rare, but not nonexistent, among homicide offenders. Observed differences in their backgrounds and post-offence behaviours indicate that they may have special needs.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thank you for sharing this. So many crossovers. The brain is one complicated organ. I won't go a lot further, except that, even mouthing, I'm Sorry, though it may be an act of true remorse, I think it may not necessarily be the type of remorse that others can experience. He may not have wanted it to happen, and is sorry that it did, but ultimately, I think he feels he was in the right, b/c in his mind, he was saving his child. I think it's been ingrained in them from birth, too, to fear this specific type of potential abuse, that he was "saving" her from.

 

[rescuemom]

It's probably not professional but I would love if the journalists would/could remark on any of the jury's reactions during some of the testimonies

 

[rsd1200]

Another "solvent trap" ......

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Yeah... benefits the defence or the prosecution?
Suppressor silencer napa 4003 wix 24003 fuel filter solvent trap

 

[justtrish]

After Chris Sr was shot in the arm by the SKS he didn’t have much of a chance fighting back because it probably blew his arm just about off, JMO

It's really sad to think he knew. If that shot was first like Jake said, he knew. I keep thinking over the scene at Chris Sr because it's the one that bothers me. It's the only one that SKS was fired at. It's the only one that anyone would be expecting company and they were awake. Chris Sr was shot 9 times. The only scene were bodies were moved. Chris Sr had a grow going on there so security would be important. I think being armed at night makes sense and I don't know if it's true Billy and he had a fight that week or recently... if so wouldn't you be even more concerned about a meeting at 11pm at your house? Why wouldn't Chris Sr be armed then? Would Billy have been armed? Would Chris Sr have known if Billy was armed? I don't know how concealable Billy's firearm was?

According to Jake they left their house about 9pm. Did they go removed that camera on Union Hill Road then (the one where the home owner didn't live there full time, but had replaced the batteries that Sunday and knew the camera was there, but when he went to retrieve it, it was gone)?

I understand going to see if Dana was home, but why drive all the way over to Kenneth's and back then go again later to kill him? Why go to Frankie's and leave then go back? What were they doing during the missing time after leaving their house and arriving for this meeting at Chris Sr? What were they doing after killing Chris Sr and Gary and before driving all over checking houses?

Maybe Billy will take a deal and tell his story and it will make more sense or if George wants to get Jake, then maybe he will end up testifying on stand and get a better deal than Jake and prove Jake was lying and Jake can get the DP.

I think they stole things and they have shown that this family steals everything and anything to make money. Why wouldn't they take the time to steal some items this night? The missing time just doesn't add up. Did they just sit in the truck waiting? I don't see why they'd drive all around and risk getting pulled over or catching the eye of someone or a camera (like they actually did get caught on camera, but it wasn't clear enough to say what the vehicles were, but we have the times).

 

[rsd1200]

At least someone in jail is doing Angela Wagner eyebrows, she might be conning the cons, I doubt anyone is giving her concessions money

Her nails are on point too. That's just jailhouse girl time. They even make their own makeup.

 

[ColMustard]

It's probably not professional but I would love if the journalists would/could remark on any of the jury's reactions during some of the testimonies

I think that's been included in reports on other cases.

I hate it that we're limited to what others tell us about the testimony. It also looks like they compare notes before reporting.

 

[justtrish]

It's probably not professional but I would love if the journalists would/could remark on any of the jury's reactions during some of the testimonies

I recall seeing a tweet from someone in the courtroom during opening that said even though many commented AC was rambling and all over the place, the jury was focused on her and engaged during the entire opening she gave.

 

[rsd1200]

I

Any idea why the defense would have asked about some SKS not being wood? After all that testimony Matthew White gave, that was all the wanted to ask him? I found it odd because you can clearly see it's wood, even though it's damaged. I often expect there to be a point to be made when they are asking questions, but I guess sometimes maybe it's just a distraction and he wants the jurors to be thinking just like I am huh? lol

He may fishing for a type of wood. Several companies made them for Russia and China. Stocks, can be from a variety of woods.

 

[almond]

He still hasn't looked at his mother. I didn't expect him to jump and shout Momma! but....

 

[arielilane]

Looks like lunchtime. Will be gathering tweets from a variety of reporters.

 

[dgfred]

Hey Trish. Had to make sure each was home then sleeping. Could not steal much (phones/keys) because of chance of being found later and connected.
Still not worried about burying stuff on their property tho. Durrrr

That's how we know the purpose of the killings... nothing really stolen but guns, cash, drugs, etc all over the place. All the deaths served their purpose in their minds.

 

[arielilane]

After Chris Sr was shot in the arm by the SKS he didn’t have much of a chance fighting back because it probably blew his arm just about off, JMO

WARNING: its graphic

In addition to that, Chris Sr. had another wound to his right forearm, where he'd been shot with a high-powered weapon, Looman said.

"His forearm was so destroyed and so lacerated that the skin was peeled back," she said. "You could see the muscles, you could see the fractured pieces of bones in there. There was so much trauma you couldn't see the entrance and exit wound. His arm was barely hanging on to the end of his elbow."

If he'd lived, Looman said the arm may not have been reparable. When she X-rayed his arm, bullet fragments still present in the arm lit up, showing a pattern she said coroners called a "snowstorm effect."

Pike County murder trial: Coroner describes two of eight victims autopsied

A forensic pathologist from the Hamilton County Coroner's Office is expected to take the stand as the trial of a man accused of murdering eight people in Pike County in 2016 continued Tuesday.

www.wcpo.com

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/CFranciscoWCPO

Angela started testifying at 11:15. She came in with her long brown hair down, wearing the jail jumpsuit. She was very soft spoken. George looked down at his paper mostly as she spoke. His mom took one good look his way during testimony, but she mainly looks at the prosecutor.

She started out saying yes she is guilty of helping prepare for the murder spree and helping cover it up. She said "My husband, Billy, and my sons, Jake and George" were also involved.

Then, prosecutors asked her to go back to when the children were young. She said Billy taught the boys to steal. She said she and Billy taught the boys how to destroy property for insurance money. She said they burnt down two homes, a semi and a garage for insurance money.

She said her half brother helped them wreck George's truck for insurance money.

She said the family would pool financial resources together. She could use Jake and George's credit cards but said she's always ask first. (this could relate back to those credit card bills that show George's card was used to buy gun silencer supplies)

If you recall, George's ex-wife, Tabitha, told jurors the Wagners isolated her from her family after she gave birth to their son. She said she had to fight to escape after Angela threatened to shoot her. Today, Angela gave her side of the story.

She said Tabitha made the choice to stop associating with her family because she was molested as a child and Tabitha's mother didn't report it. Angela said the day Tabitha ran off, Tabitha "...had an episode... She was screaming, yelling hitting the walls.”

Angela said, "George was trying to calm her down." She said Tabitha was demanding Angela hand her over the baby. Angela said she told Tabitha, "No. I'll give you your baby when you calm down." Finally, Angela said she screamed, "Just give me a gun. I'm fed up with this.”

Angela told jurors she was just trying to scare Tabitha into calming down. She said Tabitha ended up running away. George and Tabitha divorced. George got full custody. Tabitha got supervised visits.

She moved on to how she met Hanna Rhoden, Jake's girlfriend. She said they all met at the fair. Hanna was 13. Jake was 17. They dated. That progressed to pregnancy. That's when we took a break for lunch.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/ToddDykesWLWT

Angela Wagner started testifying at approx. 10:15 this morning. The jury just took a lunch break at around 12:30.

Angela looked somewhat frail and was typically soft spoken. She's wearing a drab jail uniform. Angela glanced in George's direction when she sat down to testify. If George looked at his mom, it was only for a second or two.

Much of the 1st half of Angela's testimony focused on past misdeeds before the 2016 #PiketonMassacre. She talked about how she, her husband & sons, Billy & George, committed insurance fraud by burning houses - and how the three men stole fuel semi-trailers.

Before the jury went to lunch, Angela testified about George's marriage and divorce to Tabitha Claytor & the little boy the couple had. She was in the middle of talking about murder victim's Hanna May Rhoden's pregnancy when prosecutor Angela Canepa suggested taking a break.

Hanna Rhoden and Jake Wagner had a daughter together. Jake testified last week in #GeorgeWagnerIV's murder trial that concerns about the little girl's safety (and fears about sexual violence) spurred the tragic deaths of 8 members of the Rhoden family in April 2016.

 

[Pru2U]

Angela said she told Tabitha, "No. I'll give you your baby when you calm down." Finally, Angela said she screamed, "Just give me a gun. I'm fed up with this.”
Angela told jurors she was just trying to scare Tabitha into calming down

As one does. Threatening gun violence has such a calming effect during heated moments.

Can you hear my eyes rolling? We're just getting started and I'm furious already. All three young women were threatened with violence to keep them in line. Please oh please let the jury see this clearly.

 

[Betty P]

I agree. I don't see the jury giving George 4 DP when the main shooter only gets LWOP

The judge decides the sentence in Ohio. Jury only decides guilty or not guilty.