OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[almond]

James Pilcher
@jamespilcher
·
2h

Next was Shawn Fisher - tattoo artist from Portsmouth. He covered up diesel tattoo on George with a skull and 8 ball and 3 aces. Said they came up with design on fly and it was mostly his (Shawn's) idea. Also did scorpion on Billy's hand, and diesel tattoo for Jake
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Um, shouldn't you be resting, Raisin? Please don't push yourself.

 

[Cool Cats]

@Cool Cats your post reminded me of something. Jake said his dad taught him to pick locks about 10 or 11.. well if I figured that right, if the pastor and his family knew the W's about 2000-2006 in Ohio, then Jake would have been what 8-13 or so then? So during the time Billy was changing his life around, was the time when he was showing his boys the criminal ways?

Yup. Billy indirectly admitted, by saying he "wanted to turn his life around and live a different life" that he knew he was doing criminal acts and involving his sons. When you "want to turn your life around" you don't mean from good to bad. Billy was engaged in criminal activities yet going to church at the same time it seems.

It's OK to pretend I'm a Christian by attending church and helping out at church because, after all, I want to turn my life around, so I'm not really a hypocrite.

Shows he knew he needed to change but deliberately chose not to do so. His life of crime and threatening people escalated - eventually all the way to murder. Like murder is simply just another crime to get what he wants. Extra people in the way? So what. They can be killed too.

Even Angela asked "why so many?"

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Along with the timing of getting that particular tattoo after helping murder 8 people? GW4 is the "smart one", but he got that tattoo.

Jake was smart enough to avoid getting one to "celebrate" the massacre.

Here's some imaginary dialogue. Pick the one you think is most likely:

Tattoo Guy: What do you want to do here, George?
George: I just want to cover the diesel tattoo.
Tattoo Guy: OK I'll just put what I usually use to cover up tats.
{George ends up with a perfectly symbolic representation of the murder of 8 people by 3 others. How ironic!}

Tattoo Guy: What do you want to do here, George?
George: I just want to cover the diesel tattoo.
Tattoo Guy: [Shows George some options.] How about a death's head and an 8-ball? And 3 Aces?
George: Whatever.

Tattoo Guy: What do you want to do here, George?
George: I just want to cover the diesel tattoo.
Tattoo Guy: [Shows George some options.]
George: How about a death's head and an 8-ball?
Tattoo Guy: Yeah, I've used that before to cover an old tattoo.
George: Could you add 3 aces?
Tattoo Guy: That's a standard design...

I'm sure it was the tattoo guy's design. I can't imagine George didn't look at any designs or have any sort of conversation about what he was going to put on his arm. It's not that this guy lied; he just omitted any discussion that went on about what the tattoo was going to look like before starting the work.

 

[ColMustard]

They are showing the truck bed and the modifications made to it and there is SO much space and those men are both larger than George and Jake. The one man is actually the size of Billy so I'm going to guess that was done to show that even if someone as large as dear old dad was to get in there, there is plenty of space to lay on their back, side or stomachs.

The one guy was 6'7" and over 300#. Lurch!

That false bottom looks exactly how I thought it would, very much space under there.

Somebody swiped the tail lights out of the murder truck. Pretty sure they were there before.

Edit; Sheiderer is talking about Topix, Angela monitoring, posts that were made, etc.

 

[Myland]

Jmo the sheet is bowing and no hay. What happens with weight?

 

[Pru2U]

I apologize in advance, I was away for a bit. Did defense rest? Or did Defense call Agent Scheiderer as a witness? What is happening here?

 

[ColMustard]

Jmo the sheet is bowing and no hay. What happens with weight?

\
Looks like 3/4" OSB, was probably already warped, but you could run a joist across the bed.

 

[justtrish]

Well this is pretty interesting testimony here.

Agent Schiederer texted George a lot of evidence and said basically said can we get together and talk. The gun with a silencer on it.. the parts they would have used to build a silencer (they used receipts for items bought to purchase exact items they used).

IIRC this was when BCI was bugging their truck and phones and George and Jake were on the road away from home and when the text came in it was nearly immediately they said family emergency and told the boss they couldn't deliver the load.

This is where it's all tied up! There is no family emergency if they don't know what those items are. If George has no idea, then he says, sure I'll meet with you, I'm on the road, but when I get back to town I'll let you know. Why is there immediate chatter after receiving photos of a gun and silencer if you know nothing about that item being used in the murder of 8 people?

 

[ColMustard]

I apologize in advance, I was away for a bit. Did defense rest? Or did Defense call Agent Scheiderer as a witness? What is happening here?

Resumed regularly scheduled prosecution witnesses. Per Judge Deering.

 

[Pru2U]

Resumed regularly scheduled prosecution witnesses. Per Judge Deering.

Thanks Col.

 

[rescuemom]

I apologize in advance, I was away for a bit. Did defense rest? Or did Defense call Agent Scheiderer as a witness? What is happening here?

State is back on track. Defense called 5-6 witnesses out of order, all but 2 opted out. They did not rest.

 

[justtrish]

I apologize in advance, I was away for a bit. Did defense rest? Or did Defense call Agent Scheiderer as a witness? What is happening here?

No the defense called 6 witnesses out of order (prosecution didn't rest yet) due to scheduling issues. Then the prosecution called Agent Scheiderer to continue to present their case. I am suspecting tomorrow after the wire taps maybe the state will rest and the defense will call more witnesses?

 

[ColMustard]

Defense does not like references to Boondock Saints.

Have a joke about that but I can't tell it in mixed company. moo

Edit: Break until 3:40.

Discussion after the jury leaves regarding playing of a clip from Boondock Saints. Jake's infatuation with Norman Reedus.

"Scorpion and the frog fable" Billy's scorpion tattoo.

 

[arielilane]

Common sense tells you GW4 had input into his ink. Professionals will not disclose client info as someone already stated. IMO

It is afternoon break time

 

[rsd1200]

This is the design for the truck bed. Especially easy w/o wheel wells inside.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher


(Photos are at link or @local12)


new afternoon thread Wagner trial - BCI's Ryan Scheiderer discussing how BCI recreated false bed in the truck bought for murders per how Jake testified how he did it. Then got two volunteers to get inside.

Scheiderer says he got two agents larger than Jake and George to fit inside to show it could be done.

Investigator Wheeler from prosecutors office and Det. Jenkins from Scioto Co. sheriffs office. Made sure their height and weight were more. Used scale and tape measure.

Investigator Wheeler was just under 6’4”

and weighed 254 lbs

Det. Jenkins from Scioto Co was 6-7” plus and 330 lbs

According to Jake's driver's license from 2013 at 6'-1" and 170 lbs. George was listed in 2016 at 6'-0 250 lbs

George was actually 252 lbs.

Jury instruction - this is demonstrative evidence intended to clarify or qualify facts for jury. Not serve as proof of any facts. Only to aid jury - up to jury what weight to give it in deliberations as compared to testimony.

Here’s how BCI false bed with 2x4 boards put vertically

They also show how they could close the back gate and have a small space between the edges of board and the inside of truck bed. Length of bed is 6 feet 7 inches long.

Volunteers then climbed in feet first - as Jake described it in testimony/proffer.

Here they are laying on back and sides

On their stomachs

They are doing this to discount defense assertion there wasn't enough room for both George and Jake Wagner in the truck as they rode to Rhodens.

Scheiderer goes through more pictures showing how they could shut the tailgate entirely. Volunteers were able to exit and enter the bed without any issues whatsoever.

On to the overall investigation in 2018. They found out Wagners were trying to move to Missouri. BCI contacted by Fred White with mortgage company/broker. Scheiderer and another agent went to Mo. met with authorities and saw property Wagners wanted to buy

Scheiderer took photos of that house for possible installation of listening devices. Wagners didn't get mortgage loan "due to issues with suspected fraud." Leads to defense objection and bench conference.

Jury to disregard that about fraud. They also traveled to Alaska in Feb. 2018 tried to install listening devices. Wagners moved before they could initiate the plan to bug their house.

When returned to Ohio, BCI got permission from R&L Trucking to bug the truck George and Jake were driving and interception warrants as well. 4 devices installed - using new ones they got from homeland security. Also bugged phones of Jake, George, Angela Billy

Scheiderer sent these picture to George in June 2018

as well as the gun list from Jake’s phone

Also sent this text to George asking where the 1911 was

Scheiderer actually made fake user names for Topix and posted about the investigation, posting about the investigation and falsehoods about possible searches etc.

Scheiderer watched both Boondock Saints and Boondock Saints 2. Norman Reedus plays one of the brothers in the movies as well as a character on Walking Dead. They use 1911 guns, Berettas and have flashlight suppressors attached to them.

bench conference then afternoon break for 15 minutes.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have some questions.

Why didn't the prosecution mention Jake and Angie's conference call through Chris N? Why don't they let us listen to that recording? You know the jail recorded it.

Another question.

Why did the defense have a proffer in which jake said george did not plan, participate nor cover up in the murders?

When did this last proffer come in where Jake says George helped plan and was there during the murders?

My take on it?

Jake decides for whatever reason to confess. Canepa does a huge happy dance and runs on down to talk to jake. Jake gave a proffer. The one the defense got where george did not plan, participate in murders or help cover up.

canepa said no way we are taking the DP off the table unless you give us george too. We have tons of evidence against you and your mom. We will get a conviction very easy on you and your mom then you and mom can sit on death row until your DP is carried out. Then she sweetened the deal. We take DP off the table and give mom 30 years so she has a chance of getting out and seeing GK's. So call your uncle Chris N and have him set up a time you can talk to mom and get your almost word for word proffers lined up straight, and make sure mom knows she has to give us george too if she is going to get her thirty years.

I find it very hard to believe that the jail just let this one conference call get by and no one notices jake and mom are talking in violation of a court order after hundreds of hours recording nonsense in a truck JW and GW were driving. And even more amazing is the prosecution didn't even listen to what they said? Yeah right. You can bet you butt canepa listened to that call. Because canepa set the call up.

And jake being mama's boy got his beautiful sweet angel of a mom her sweet deal.


BTW just for fun since everyone is opting out.

Leave out jake and angel moms testimony and list the solid evidence against george in the trial.

What supplies did GW buy?

Why didn't AC call Uncle Silas who sold them the murder truck? Because Uncle Silas brought the truck to Peterson Rd for jake to buy so Geoge didn't not "Go" with jake and Angie to buy the truck. The truck was brought to George's house to be sold to jake.

Billy told jake to gather the guns and find a vehicle.
Billy told Angie to buy supplies.
What did Billy tell george to do??? What was georges job in the plan????

Billy told Angie to buy shoes so why did Angie buy TWO pairs of shoes if three men were going? I made it real easy for those of you who didn't give this a lot of thought. because only two men were going. Billy and jake.

Why didn't jake and angel mom tell when and who with george planned the murders.

Why did jake say him and Billy palnned they murders when they were out driving the truck without george.
Why did angie say her and billy planned the murders under the carport without george?

Why did Billy say he didn't want to have to go another 20 rounds with george. I am assuming he meant arguing or fighting? Maybe because Billy and jake and Angie knew George wouldn't agree?????

Billy pulled over and asked jake if he wanted to go ahead with this. If george was there why didn't Billy ask him if he wanted to go ahead with it? because george wasn't in the truck.

Billy and Angel mom asked jake if he wanted to talk about what happened, why didn't they ask george? because george was not there so had nothing to talk about.

Jake told george to dig a hole. What did jake tell george it was for? a support pole for the barn. Which it later became according to BCI who were going to tear that barn down and dig up the pole to look for murder weapons.

Too many unanswered questions and no evidence that ties george to the murders.

Now I am tired so will just read your answers.
JMO

 

[Chingaling]

So now we know, both BCI and AW on the way back machine. BCI knows everything we said, wow.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

bench conference then afternoon break for 15 minutes.

While jury is out, judge says he's concerned about far down the road it is going about the movie.

Canepa thinks movie is really relevant - the father in the movie tells his best friend about the scorpion and the frog. "It's in my nature" - Billy got scorpion tattoo a month after homicides. Prosecution thinks it is a strong parallel

Despite defense objections and arguments about the movie and its contents, Judge Deering is overruling objection saying with Jake playing clip the night of murders opens the door to ask about it.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Common sense tells you GW4 had input into his ink. Professionals will not disclose client info as someone already stated. IMO

It is afternoon break time

Otherwise we believe that a guy used dark ink to cover an existing tattoo without discussing the design.