OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[Pru2U]

As awful as it was for Angela to get up there and victim blame, I think it helped the prosecution. I mean if she suddenly had a such a change of heart and said how sorry she was that she falsely accused them of molesting Sophia and so on, then I think THAT would have appeared staged and like she was playing to the state to get a deal. I think hearing how delusional she was and how she nagged Billy and basically accused every person around this child of touching her or poisoning her, just shows HOW the heck 4 people got to this point of murdering 8 people. I think if she got up there and appeared normal it wouldn't have nearly the same impact as her getting up there and admitting to guilt and blaming the victims.

I am going to trust the jury is smart and able to think through just like we all have and call BS when they hear all these accusations and person after person show this family threatened those that they feel did anything to one of the kids, they didn't react in a normal way by taking the child to the hospital, they were obsessed with others wrongs but lied, stole, and deceived everyone they ever had contact with. I think the writing is on the wall on this one!

I hope so.

I started wondering last night if the questionnaire used for jury selection asked about any personal experience with state child protection services. And/or s assault.

 

[Dudly]

Prefacing: My sound on YT was horrible today, and their CC is poorly transcribed. But the little I saw/pieced together was:
AC/prosecution didn't number their exhibit, so it wasn't then able to be referenced.

I "think" that's what transpired. IDK

I thought Wilson said ther were numbered when that came up. I could be wrong. MOO

 

[CIA Team Member]

You're likely correct.

I thought Wilson said ther were numbered when that came up. I could be wrong. MOO

 

[rsd1200]

I am trying to give them ALL a bit of grace. As I keep reminding my husband every time he asks me "Are you still watching that Piketon trial? How long is that thing going to go on"? There were 8 murders in 4 locations planned and committed by 4 people; there is a crap ton of evidence & testimony to wade through.

I didn't watch every pretrial hearing so I don't mind deferring to Betty P on that, but I still try to give them grace. The DP is the most serious of cases to defend and this trial is a biggie. I give AC a lot of grace because this is the biggest, most important case (probably) of her career. This trial is A LOT period.

My issue is with the judge. In my opinion, he allows too much of the jurors time to be wasted. I'm fine with short days, I find myself dozing off sometimes and much is emotionally hard, I feel for the jurors. I just think he could do a better job mediating to prevent a lot of the nonsense back & forth that goes on. He could have saved us 2-3 days, seems like. But I'm no law scholar. That's just my opinion based on other trials I have watched.

My s/o asks me the same. Are you still watching that trial? Is it still the same guy? Like you say, a crap ton of evidence. I don't always agree with how he's handled the courtroom but hopefully he's doing so to to best prevent a successful plea when G4 is convicted. I try to keep in mind that this is the largest case these folks have probably ever had in front of them, but , agreed, I do think some things could have been handled differently by the judge, but, it's a massive trial and I do think they are trying to get it right. I don't, however, think that the defense is lying, it could cost them their license if caught. Do they have more wiggle room than the prosecution? Yes, but it does not allow lying. With a case this large, if caught lying, it could destroy their reputation and possibly cost them their license.

 

[Pru2U]

This may have been answered so I’ll apologize in advance:

Is there a reason why we have not heard George’s interview at border/Montana?

Did defense keep it out? Would it be considered George’s testimony?

Or did prosecution simply choose not to introduce it?

TIA

 

[dgfred]

I will try:

Prosecution did not play. GW would have to testify to play IIRC

 

[Pru2U]

I will try:

Prosecution did not play. GW would have to testify to play IIRC

That’s what I was thinking. It might be considered GW testimony.

 

[rescuemom]

I still would like to know the demographic of the jury as far as age and employment. If they are mostly retired or unemployed, etc., then their time is more flexible but I would not like to be on a jury where the trial is drawn out and I'm pressured to get back to work. Today, the jury was most likely there at the courthouse when they decided to call it a day.

 

[NWLady]

IF any of the Wagners, mainly AW and JW at this time, as they have been the only 2 of the 4 on the witness stand, TRULY felt any remorse OR regret for these 8 family members that THEY are responsible for murdering, wouldn't they show some emotions? Such as actual crying, sobbing, etc. vs maybe just a tear here and there?? AW with her alleged soft-spoken voice (as has been reported) vs us and the jurors hearing her tone of voice at other times in recordings where she was far from soft-spoken! Then for her to deny that these murders were related to custody but instead were related to SA of S, yet we have all seen by exhibits/evidence submitted by the State that HR's FB message regarding they will have to kill me first (verbatim) was in December 2015 and the Wagners, we've been told, started planning these murders in January 2016?!

Also, I am sure I am not the only one that has noticed how closely JW and AW testimonies were, sometimes almost word for word, but yet we and the jurors are to believe that AW had NO idea what was in JW proffer at the time she agreed to talk and was given IMO her sweet deal?!

It's my opinion that the State has actually coddled JW and AW throughout this trial (and before), which is somewhat baffling as I believe it's been said by the State somewhere throughout all of this, that the State had enough to convict even without the proffers/pleas of JW and AW. (I will say also this is JMO as I cannot right now look for a link to support this).

Prior to the trial starting, I had a lot of confidence in AC trying this case, but ever since opening statements by her and watching her performance since then, my opinion on that has changed for many reasons too numerous to mention here. I feel AW would be the more suitable person for closing statements but I am guessing that won't happen.

In summary, yes, I do feel all 4 Wagners are guilty and I have not even one tiny bit of sympathy for any of them. I feel they should all be given LWOP, including AW which of course we know didn't happen.

IF any of the Wagners felt those two youngsters were being abused in any way, then why weren't these issues addressed with a medical provider, CPS, etc?? Oh wait, it's the area/culture of where they live? The extended enmeshed family? It's the way there to not involve others? Nope, none of those reasons/excuses exist IMO, because especially as mothers, don't most of us have the maternal instinct to protect, especially protect those who can't protect themselves? And you are talking about a family who 1 son had already gained custody of their child (and IMO) was not wanting that child's mother involved, and also we have the other son IMO and his mother hell bent on getting custody of his child, to the point of spying on other peoples social media, hiring a lawyer, recording conversations and on and on, but yet taking said child to medical provider to have these alleged issues addressed was never done when THAT would have been something concrete that would've helped their custody battle! But yet, THAT was never done, and WHY...because it was all BS, started, forced into other peoples minds by mainly WHO??!! .....AW

End of rant (for now anyways).

ETA so that it is not taken out of context, I am NOT speaking negatively about any cultures, ways of life, extended living arrangements, etc. of any body, any where.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I do know that AC has failed to provide them with evidence that she decided to present, in the past. She claimed it was b/c it was a last minute decision and she didn't have time. Idc, unprofessional on her end, and unprepared. She should, at the very least, have it for review to them the day before, or early the morning of. So I'm not going to say they are lying.

I agree, and on more than one instance. MOO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

It's this particular defense team. They've done this kind of obfuscation, delaying, sowing confusion, etc from the beginning. None of the other defense teams did this. Take a look at the dockets for all 4 defendants and you'll see how much busy work they've dumped on the prosecution and the court. To his credit, Judge Deering goes along with it because he doesn't want to give them grounds for appeal, etc. Nash and Palmer are a menace and a waste of taxpayer money. Their only strategy for defending their emotionless lump of a client is to bash the prosecution and the court, trying to make them look dishonest or incompetent.

BBM:
Perhaps that's because none of the other attorneys have had to defend their client standing before a jury, huge difference IMO.

ETA:

None of us know what their strategy is, that comes Monday. MOO Can I ask exactly what is " lump of a client"? IMO, name calling solves nada IMO. N/M, I just looked it up!

 

[rsd1200]

I still would like to know the demographic of the jury as far as age and employment. If they are mostly retired or unemployed, etc., then their time is more flexible but I would not like to be on a jury where the trial is drawn out and I'm pressured to get back to work. Today, the jury was most likely there at the courthouse when they decided to call it a day.

I found some info on the jurors that i found here;
The main jury consists of nine women and three men; the six alternates are five women and one man. There are an unusually large number of alternates given the trial is expected to take up to six to eight weeks. In the main jury, at least one is a teacher, another is a local business owner and another is a physical therapist. One was born and raised abroad but is now a naturalized citizen. A few are in their late 20s or 30s, but most are in their 40s or 50s.
During questioning, one juror said she was extremely nervous and was trying to keep from shaking.

Cincinnati defense lawyer Jay Clark has agreed to act as Local 12’s legal expert for the Wagner trial. He says the number of women could possibly help the defense, but he adds it might help the prosecution as well.

“The makeup being more women, I think, is maybe they’re going to be viewed more empathetic or sympathetic to a custody situation,” Clark said. “If you’re a prosecutor, I think you want people who are very law and order, and it depends on what you consider is a realistic win.”


Final jury seated in Pike County murder trial against George Wagner IV

 

[rsd1200]

Prefacing: My sound on YT was horrible today, and their CC is poorly transcribed. But the little I saw/pieced together was:
AC/prosecution didn't number their exhibit, so it wasn't then able to be referenced.

I "think" that's what transpired. IDK

If she didn't number her exhibit then I can see their complaint. Anyone whose given a presentation knows its' important in day to day business, and this is a DP trial. The CC, I think, is automated transcription, on most of the channels. I agree, it's pretty bad some days. I'm not so sure that anyone goes in and cleans it up, unless it's at some point later. I did notice on one channel that they won't show the CC til after the day's trial has closed, which may give them a chance to have theirs transcribed more efficiently. I've switched around so much that I can't remember who does how and what at this point.

 

[ohioexpat63]

I found some info on the jurors that i found here;
The main jury consists of nine women and three men; the six alternates are five women and one man. There are an unusually large number of alternates given the trial is expected to take up to six to eight weeks. In the main jury, at least one is a teacher, another is a local business owner and another is a physical therapist. One was born and raised abroad but is now a naturalized citizen. A few are in their late 20s or 30s, but most are in their 40s or 50s.
During questioning, one juror said she was extremely nervous and was trying to keep from shaking.

Cincinnati defense lawyer Jay Clark has agreed to act as Local 12’s legal expert for the Wagner trial. He says the number of women could possibly help the defense, but he adds it might help the prosecution as well.

“The makeup being more women, I think, is maybe they’re going to be viewed more empathetic or sympathetic to a custody situation,” Clark said. “If you’re a prosecutor, I think you want people who are very law and order, and it depends on what you consider is a realistic win.”


Final jury seated in Pike County murder trial against George Wagner IV

So, in other words, it is impossible to predict what a jury will do. "Could possibly", "might", are code for I dont have a clue, like the rest of us.

 

[rsd1200]

I hope so.

I started wondering last night if the questionnaire used for jury selection asked about any personal experience with state child protection services. And/or s assault.

It's 21 pages long, but I think this is the questionaire.

 

[Betty P]

I am trying to give them ALL a bit of grace. As I keep reminding my husband every time he asks me "Are you still watching that Piketon trial? How long is that thing going to go on"? There were 8 murders in 4 locations planned and committed by 4 people; there is a crap ton of evidence & testimony to wade through.

I didn't watch every pretrial hearing so I don't mind deferring to Betty P on that, but I still try to give them grace. The DP is the most serious of cases to defend and this trial is a biggie. I give AC a lot of grace because this is the biggest, most important case (probably) of her career. This trial is A LOT period.

My issue is with the judge. In my opinion, he allows too much of the jurors time to be wasted. I'm fine with short days, I find myself dozing off sometimes and much is emotionally hard, I feel for the jurors. I just think he could do a better job mediating to prevent a lot of the nonsense back & forth that goes on. He could have saved us 2-3 days, seems like. But I'm no law scholar. That's just my opinion based on other trials I have watched.

Since the Judge said he's going to retire next year after the trials, I think he's trying to proceed as carefully as possible so that the convictions aren't completely overturned by another judge. <modsnip>

 

[rsd1200]

So, in other words, it is impossible to predict what a jury will do. "Could possibly", "might", are code for I dont have a clue, like the rest of us.

Their words, but yes. That's the reason for a jury pool made up of both sides. If we knew they were going to pull the guilty lever at the very beginning, there'd be no need for a trial. A jury is made up of humans just like us, only they are there to see and hear the witnesses and their tone and verbal inflections and facial expressions. Unfortunately we are not given that opportunity in this trial.

 

[altojack]

My s/o asks me the same. Are you still watching that trial? Is it still the same guy? Like you say, a crap ton of evidence. I don't always agree with how he's handled the courtroom but hopefully he's doing so to to best prevent a successful plea when G4 is convicted. I try to keep in mind that this is the largest case these folks have probably ever had in front of them, but , agreed, I do think some things could have been handled differently by the judge, but, it's a massive trial and I do think they are trying to get it right. I don't, however, think that the defense is lying, it could cost them their license if caught. Do they have more wiggle room than the prosecution? Yes, but it does not allow lying. With a case this large, if caught lying, it could destroy their reputation and possibly cost them their license.

I wonder How many of us have been asked the same question. Don't people realise there's a load of evidence, then there's witnesses. This is a massive case for Pike County. It's going to take time.

I've eventually impressed my husband when I explained something about balistics. And wow, Matthew White testing those cut up fire arms. He, my husband, knows now I'll be Mia again for maybe a similar length of time when we get to Pa Wagners turn.

 

[Puzzles8]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

So today is cancelled for trial - and jury will be sent home. Final decision on the transcripts and wiretap snippets will be played will be made Monday.

Defense will be calling their witnesses starting Monday - out of order but the jury will be made aware of that.

Do we have any idea who the defense witnesses are and how many there are?

JMO

 

[Betty P]

IF any of the Wagners, mainly AW and JW at this time, as they have been the only 2 of the 4 on the witness stand, TRULY felt any remorse OR regret for these 8 family members that THEY are responsible for murdering, wouldn't they show some emotions? Such as actual crying, sobbing, etc. vs maybe just a tear here and there?? AW with her alleged soft-spoken voice (as has been reported) vs us and the jurors hearing her tone of voice at other times in recordings where she was far from soft-spoken! Then for her to deny that these murders were related to custody but instead were related to SA of S, yet we have all seen by exhibits/evidence submitted by the State that HR's FB message regarding they will have to kill me first (verbatim) was in December 2015 and the Wagners, we've been told, started planning these murders in January 2016?!

Also, I am sure I am not the only one that has noticed how closely JW and AW testimonies were, sometimes almost word for word, but yet we and the jurors are to believe that AW had NO idea what was in JW proffer at the time she agreed to talk and was given IMO her sweet deal?!

It's my opinion that the State has actually coddled JW and AW throughout this trial (and before), which is somewhat baffling as I believe it's been said by the State somewhere throughout all of this, that the State had enough to convict even without the proffers/pleas of JW and AW. (I will say also this is JMO as I cannot right now look for a link to support this).

Prior to the trial starting, I had a lot of confidence in AC trying this case, but ever since opening statements by her and watching her performance since then, my opinion on that has changed for many reasons too numerous to mention here. I feel AW would be the more suitable person for closing statements but I am guessing that won't happen.

In summary, yes, I do feel all 4 Wagners are guilty and I have not even one tiny bit of sympathy for any of them. I feel they should all be given LWOP, including AW which of course we know didn't happen.

IF any of the Wagners felt those two youngsters were being abused in any way, then why weren't these issues addressed with a medical provider, CPS, etc?? Oh wait, it's the area/culture of where they live? The extended enmeshed family? It's the way there to not involve others? Nope, none of those reasons/excuses exist IMO, because especially as mothers, don't most of us have the maternal instinct to protect, especially protect those who can't protect themselves? And you are talking about a family who 1 son had already gained custody of their child (and IMO) was not wanting that child's mother involved, and also we have the other son IMO and his mother hell bent on getting custody of his child, to the point of spying on other peoples social media, hiring a lawyer, recording conversations and on and on, but yet taking said child to medical provider to have these alleged issues addressed was never done when THAT would have been something concrete that would've helped their custody battle! But yet, THAT was never done, and WHY...because it was all BS, started, forced into other peoples minds by mainly WHO??!! .....AW

End of rant (for now anyways).

ETA so that it is not taken out of context, I am NOT speaking negatively about any cultures, ways of life, extended living arrangements, etc. of any body, any where.

I don't think the state has coddled these witnesses. I do think (and we pretty much know from evidence) that they rehearsed their stories for a year or more.

Remember, the murders happened in Spring 2016. The arrests took place in late October 2018. They had plenty of time to coordinate stories.