OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[ColMustard]

I wish, but that wss the first place I checked. I went through OS & all direct testimony. I suspect it came out in cross or re-direct but I fell asleep then gave up.

It's in there, I remember AC saying "...slither, that's using Jake's term....", words to that effect.

 

[ColMustard]

Of course. There were PCSO's on there too, but I doubt there were too many LEOs hanging out AFTER the arrests still defending the W's.

It was long gone before the arrests, shut down forever.

LEOs defending Ws?

 

[Pru2U]

It was long gone before the arrests, shut down forever.

LEOs defending Ws?

No, it wasn't shut down until after the arrests. I just looked it up. December 20, 2018.

To clarify, I'm saying LEO's were most likely NOT posting on social media after arrests.

 

[twall]

It's in there, I remember AC saying "...slither, that's using Jake's term....", words to that effect.

Right, AC said it in opening.
They didn't want to leave any shoe prints of those brand new Walmart shoes anywhere on their property until they were ready to get into the truck. And they got into the bed of the truck and Billy drove the truck up to see his friend and they remained in the back of that bed of the truck until such time as Billy came out and lowered the gate for them, at which point they slithered.

Slithered, I think, was the word he used out of the truck and got underneath that truck and George got under that truck and enjoyed that under Chris Seniors truck, which is they parked their vehicle right by one of Chris Senior's trucks. And George had the case at that time. Again, that was his gun. Jake didn't really even like the gun in George.

PikeCountyMassacre_T01_D001_P1

UNREDACTED AUTOPSIES: https://queenofcbr.com/pike005 I keep a playlist of all the VODs. Bookmark it, to make locating the livestream easy. Subscribe for bizarre little videos that consolidate weird little things from trials. :) http://queenofcbr.com/pikeplaylists PIKE COUNTY MURDER TRIAL for G...

docs.google.com

 

[ColMustard]

No, it wasn't shut down until after the arrests. I just looked it up. December 20, 2018.

I don't think that's correct. Many of us were here waiting, hoping, praying for something to break long after the site was cut off.

Edit: I can be wrong though! I see that's what Wiki, etc gives as the shutdown date, but I'm remembering differently, for now

Edit2: Extended break until 1pm. arrrgh, I'm gonna go vote.

 

[arielilane]

Recess until 1:00 pm ET

 

[Chelly]

Recess until 1 p.m. Court has business to discuss outside jury presence.

Judge tells jury they can consider the Boondog Saints movie evidence presented yesterday if they believe it affects this case.

 

[Pru2U]

Right, AC said it in opening.
They didn't want to leave any shoe prints of those brand new Walmart shoes anywhere on their property until they were ready to get into the truck. And they got into the bed of the truck and Billy drove the truck up to see his friend and they remained in the back of that bed of the truck until such time as Billy came out and lowered the gate for them, at which point they slithered.

Slithered, I think, was the word he used out of the truck and got underneath that truck and George got under that truck and enjoyed that under Chris Seniors truck, which is they parked their vehicle right by one of Chris Senior's trucks. And George had the case at that time. Again, that was his gun. Jake didn't really even like the gun in George.

PikeCountyMassacre_T01_D001_P1

UNREDACTED AUTOPSIES: https://queenofcbr.com/pike005 I keep a playlist of all the VODs. Bookmark it, to make locating the livestream easy. Subscribe for bizarre little videos that consolidate weird little things from trials. :) http://queenofcbr.com/pikeplaylists PIKE COUNTY MURDER TRIAL for G...

docs.google.com

Thank you! In a discussion about trajectory & where Jake & George were hiding, we were looking specifically for where they parked as there were 2 silver trucks. Which silver truck did they park near? At one point, Courtney tweeted about how awkward it was to watch Jake point to where they parked. Unfortunately, she didn't include WHERE they actually parked. I cannot find anyone who did.

So to clarify, I was looking for exactly where they parked. I was hoping it would be with the slithered comment but I haven't found it.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

Good morning from Pike Co murder trial of George Wagner IV. First up is cross examination of BCI's Ryan Scheiderer then BCI's Julia Eveslage expected to introduce wiretaps from truck of George and Jake. Here is yesterday's recap

WATCH LIVE: https://bit.ly/3EgI1zU - not started yet but the stream is up. And we expect both Scheiderer and Eveslage to be on camera and play the wiretaps. We're expecting this to be key evidence.

Actually we just started in court with Judge Deering taking the bench.

Scheiderer says the pictures of the reconstructed false bed were taken last Thursday after Jake's testimony. Parker: "They weren't taken before you gave Jake that tremendous plea deal were they?" Scheiderer takes a pause.

Parker gets Scheiderer to say he didn't start the truck, or drive it around for up to an hour to see if there was any exhaust. Didn't put hay on to test if it would hold. Didn't videotape it. Didn't also put someone 30 feet away to see if volunteers would be noticed.

Moving onto Boonedock Saints - does either movie involve 2 year old possibly getting sexually abused? Or Facebook messages? Or using oil filters as silencers? No. No cheap shoes used.

Was there 9 mm used in the Rhoden murders (like ones used in movie)? No. Did any character smile or smirk while on stand testifying? (referring to Jake) No.

Parker getting Scheiderer to admit all the differences between the movies and this case.

Moving on to affadavit to get wiretaps on R&L truck - signed May 24 2018. At that point 40 search warrants, and 100 subpoenas been issues. 1000 tips investigated.

Affadavit says all other means have been exhausted, that's why they needed wiretaps.

Parker calls it "a last ditch effort" ... Scheiderer says it's when traditional investigative techniques had reached an end.

In April 2018 - they had probable cause to arrest, but not to proceed to prosecution.

Going through all things found and listed in affadavit. All the purchases, the shoes, the shell casings etc.

First mention of George when they talk about Chris Newcomb getting Glock handguns.

Parker says "now we have the infamous Facebook message" between Hanna Rhoden and Tabitha's mother Tess.

Now onto the tattoo George got - 8 ball and skull with dice showing 11 and three aces.

Scheiderer says they did "provocative acts" "to stimulate conversation amongst the suspects" once the wiretaps were in place. Also called "tickling the wire" in pretrial testimony.

also - does anyone have a theory on what the 11 could mean on the dice on George's tattoo?

Scheiderer says they were not sure that Jake and George had a lawyer when the wiretaps were in place.

One of those provocative acts was get a court order to get handwriting samples from Rita Newcomb.

Parker says "kind of sneaky" which brings sustained objection. Also interviewed Jake's custody attorney. And former church members and coworkers in Alaska.

Parker "you were posing as someone else?" Talking about the Topix posts Scheiderer made under false names. Could have been 10 different accounts. Comment on conversations - some were false information. Scheiderer - says it’s legal and ethical.

Parker asks several times about ethics - leads to objection.

Parker asks about his training with mental health issues. Asks about whether he can identify long-term paranoia? Any indications with Angela? "I think there were mental issues with all four people to kill 8 people" Scheiderer says.

Parker - asks about confirmation bias in law enforcement. Ignore evidence that changes theory of crime? Scheider "not familiar with that because it's not something I would do." Belief persistence? Leads to objection and question withdrawn

Scheiderer says motive "still was about custody of that child" with Parker hitting hard on Jake and Angela saying it was about sexual abuse and not custody on the stand. Scheiderer says Wagners wanted custody to protect Jake's daughter.

Agrees that all the victims were shot in the head. Also agrees he saw Jake smile and smirk during testimony. Parker - "agree with me there was never any proof of sexual abuse" - Yes. Also only interviewed George once in Montana and never seized his cell. Done with cross.

Redirect - Scheiderer says Jake couldn't remember whether he put hay or straw on the truck to cover it up. Straw much later. Also says volunteers had "zero issues" getting in and out of truck from under false bed.

Now onto the similarities between Boondock Saints and the murders - bodies were dragged. Father killed childhood friend with Glock at end of sequel at point blank range in the head.

They were supposed to use Berettas originally like in movie, but it was damaged while test firing suppressor. Not celebrated as heroes as in movie. But they wanted to protect the vulnerable.

Scheiderer - Did not have enough to prosecute in May 2018. And they had to provide all that information in affadavit for wiretaps. All other techniques at an end - the family wasn't going to talk, "plus they were planned murders.”

"Not very common" that codefendants live together.

Also wanted to list and collect any new and known associates of Wagner family through the wiretaps. And then interview them

On redirect, Canepa asks is putting fake info up on social media is allowable? Yes. Just like saying false things to someone being interviewed. That's allowed aas well.

Talking about lawyers and criminal defendants. Asks if John Clark has more than one? Leads to defense objection and bench conference

Who was John Clark representing? Angela made contact and discussion about Rita. Not sure who else.

Asked if the whole team was in agreement. Scheiderer "I think we had probable cause and we wanted to make sure we had all the evidence we needed to arrest them.”

Scheiderer: BCI was "very careful" to rule out the people who did not commit the crime and to get the people who had done this. Angela showed everyone in Wagner family Hanna's Facebook message.

Scheiderer also says Jake apologized on the stand for smiling inappropriately as he couldn't control it. They didn't seize George's phone in Montana because it was a new phone.

Re-cross: Scheiderer can lie, and people can lie to him - as long as it doesn't obstruct an investigation. But law enforcement decides what is relevant and what is obstruction.

Deering making cautionary instruction about Boondock Saints and sequel - was defendant familiar with movies? And is plot not sufficiently similar to facts of case? If not then disregard testimony.

Going on lunch break until 1 p.m. but the lawyers will argue the wiretaps during the break.

 

[Pru2U]

I don't think that's correct. Many of us were here waiting, hoping, praying for something to break long after the site was cut off.

Edit: I can be wrong though! I see that's what Wiki, etc gives as the shutdown date, but I'm remembering differently, for now

Edit2: Extended break until 1pm. arrrgh, I'm gonna go vote.

Just FYI I found it on WKYT.

Topix forums bids the internet farewell, shuts down website

Popular online discussion board Topix Forums has announced it is ending its tenure as the best site for your town’s “latest news and hottest takes.”

www.wkyt.com

And good riddance.

 

[ColMustard]

Just FYI I found it on WKYT.

Topix forums bids the internet farewell, shuts down website

Popular online discussion board Topix Forums has announced it is ending its tenure as the best site for your town’s “latest news and hottest takes.”

www.wkyt.com

And good riddance.

Well maybe I just stopped reading there before they shut down.

 

[Pru2U]

RE arguments over playing audio/wiretap. I sure hope we can hear these, and by that, I mean I hope they are clear. The last ones with bad audio sound were terrible trying to listen to.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

Now on record about the wiretap transcripts and recordings without jury. There are two dozen portions of the recordings going to be introduced. Deering wants to make sure transcripts were accurate. Defense and prosecution were to agree on what is on transcripts.

Defense says most are ok - but there are some transcripts they disagree with. They also only got some of them today. Judge asks why some were only provided today? Canepa says they are only getting 2-3 hours sleep a night.

Transcripts are 412 pages long. Analyst working on trimming down audio. Now we're up to transcripts of 26 recordings total.

Some were just text messages as well - actually 28 total documents. Defense were prepared to argue which ones they agree with and which ones they don't. In chronological order.

Going off the record as two sides get together and organize transcripts and which ones defense objects to. Also giving cautionary instruction to that transcripts are listening aid and not evidence. Recordings are evidence.

Defense argues some are so clear they don't need a transcript as listening aid.

Jury would only get transcripts in court while recordings are played in court - not entered into evidence and they wouldn't get transcripts while deliberating.

 

[twall]

RE arguments over playing audio/wiretap. I sure hope we can hear these, and by that, I mean I hope they are clear. The last ones with bad audio sound were terrible trying to listen to.

Making sure my earbuds are charged and ready!

 

[Chelly]

RE arguments over playing audio/wiretap. I sure hope we can hear these, and by that, I mean I hope they are clear. The last ones with bad audio sound were terrible trying to listen to.

I believe Scheiderer testified yesterday they had better equipment provided by HLS for these audio/wiretaps. According to judge the transcripts are for exhibit purposes only. They won't go into the jury room. But the audios of the wiretaps are evidence.

 

[justtrish]

Interesting exchange between Agent Scheiderer and defense. He was basically questioning Scheiderer's integrity because he lied on Topix? So it's okay for you to lie to the public, but it's illegal for the public to lie to you? I literally LOL'd at that one. First of all nobody knew that he was BCI on that forum trying to stir the pot. I'd say only the murders would know what was a lie and what wasn't. People say anything they want on forums. I loved his response that it's not illegal to lie to the police unless it hinders an investigation. Then, Parker trying to suggest that they formed the opinion and tried to make the evidence fit.. nope. Then him arguing it was over custody, but the W's said it was Sophia being SA.. BUT what they were arguing for was custody. The fact that they accused any and every person around this child of some type of inappropriate touching would suggest that this was a bull#### excuse that Angela fabricated to get control (custody) of Sophia. They aren't different motives at all, just more attempts to confuse the case.

The big theme was control, the what was custody of Sophia, the how was claiming SA and using that to fuel a plan to make that happen. I think because other plans were considered (just killing Hannah and Corey, tuning Chris Sr in for drugs, going to court for custody) we can see what the goal was and that was getting Sophia, but the way they did it was not finalized until they ruled out other options. I think Angela used the possible SA of Sophia as a way to control and get the boys so fired up or maybe just Billy. Angela had to manipulate the situation in some way to get Billy to come up with the bright idea that murder was the only option. Then, he did.

If this was only about SA of Sophia, they would have taken her to a doctor and/or went to the police.

 

[Nanasteele]

Well maybe I just stopped reading there before they shut down.

I remember reading this a lot when the murders happened.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Jmo then Jake lied about things if not they way state said.

I'm sure he AND Angela lied about things they said about Hanna. But none of that is germane to whether George was at the crime scene, helped plan the murders, and helped with the cover up.

 

[justtrish]

Thank you! In a discussion about trajectory & where Jake & George were hiding, we were looking specifically for where they parked as there were 2 silver trucks. Which silver truck did they park near? At one point, Courtney tweeted about how awkward it was to watch Jake point to where they parked. Unfortunately, she didn't include WHERE they actually parked. I cannot find anyone who did.

So to clarify, I was looking for exactly where they parked. I was hoping it would be with the slithered comment but I haven't found it.

The problem I think with figuring out exactly where they parked is they moved Chris Sr's truck so the silver truck might not be in the exact spot it was when they initially pulled in and were hiding in the back. I think we can get a good idea based on trajectory of those bullets fired and seeing the silver truck sitting there it is close to where the trajectory comes from. I'd say maybe they pulled in behind there. I'd love to see what Chris Sr house looked like in the dark at night with just the porch light on or any lights on the buildings out there to see how lit up it was. I have a feeling out in the country where this was, it was dark and they could slighter out of that truck with no problem. I'd love to know which building they walked to because it seems to me, if we are facing Chris's trailer from the driveway area the grow building was to the left and Frankie's trailer was to the right. If that's the case and they drove in even at a slight angle with the front being more to the left and the back more to the right, then as they walked to the grow over toward the left, they could easily get out of the back of their truck and hide without being seen.

I still really feel like Jake went to Frankie's at this point. If it wasn't really lit up, then I think he went over there to be a lookout for Frankie waking or coming outside. At 11pm Frankie was still awake. I recall testimony that his ex dropped their son off and she stayed until Frankie was home and it was1 10:15 to 10:30 when she left, then Frankie took that photo of his boys close to 11pm. I wonder if the Wagner's saw his ex leave? Did they pass her car on the road. Did they see any lights on at Frankie's at this point? It just doesn't make sense to not have a lookout when Frankie's house was so close.

Another random thought is about Chris's camera system. I wonder if Kenneth had access to the video? Our cameras are motion activated and my husband get's alerts to his phone, but he turns it off during the day because it picks up trees blowing, birds, cats, kids playing, etc.. So the battery would drain quickly if he left them on all day and he'd be getting 100s of notifications.. lol I wonder if Chris Sr had the cameras off when he was home? Would that be something Billy knew? If they weren't off, could Kenneth see if he was alerted of activity? They took the camera equipment AFTER the killed Chris and Gary.. so what if there was footage somewhere? Did they know there wouldn't be, but took them just in case?

 

[Pru2U]

So it's okay for you to lie to the public, but it's illegal for the public to lie to you?

LOL! It's only illegal if the lying happens under oath. Wonder how many times Parker has used this defense? Probably every time an interrogation comes into play because LE lies their tails off in those little interrogation rooms.

This custody vs SA argument reminds me of how the US Civil War started: States Rights vs States Rights to own slaves. Tomatoes vs Tamatos. All the defense is doing with the SA argument is trying to lay blame on the victims for sympathy votes among jurors. I hate it when they do that.