OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[dgfred]

I believe they needed two of four at least to admit the killings. Otherwise, the other 3 just claim the 1 is lying to get out of the DP.
Got JW at the murders
Got AW setting things up

Got BW and GW... no way out.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I hope whoever does the closing for the state reminds the jury that sexual abuse of children was A-OK with the Wagners when the victims were Hanna and Tabitha.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

About to start afternoon session of Wagner trial in Pike Co. back on record with no jury. Still working through the recordings and transcripts of wiretaps.

Now doing a hearing about transcripts defense has issues with - judge says one had been added later and wasn't in original group.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

You state this so perfect. If I may add to it, JW wants his brother out. JW must testify against his brother to take the DP off the table. Jake will, IMO, downplay every action GW4 took that night. Jake will, IMO, downplay as much as he can get away with and still satisfy the prosecution.

Couple of examples:
IMO, Jake didn't know if prints were on the gun (etc), so he stated GW4 held the gun but wouldn't shoot.
IMO, GW4 wanted to protect Jake, not from Billy, but the Rhodens.

It makes no sense to me for Jake to place GW4 at the murder scene if GW4 wasn't there. IMO, Jake felt the prosecution knew GW4 was there and had to admit it to get the DP off the table.

I "think" the Wagner family has hopes that GW4 will somehow at least try to break the others out of prison. I "think" the Wagner family has discussed this during their meetings regarding what to do if any or all of them are arrested. I would love to know if they also watched 'Prison Break". I think the family wants one of them on the outside to take care of them and other things.

This is what makes sense to me.

 

[justtrish]

I hope whoever does the closing for the state reminds the jury that sexual abuse of children was A-OK with the Wagners when the victims were Hanna and Tabitha.

I'd also remind them that the abuse was okay with them for months and months while they planned what to do about it. If this "abuse" was so important to them, then they sure didn't show that by protecting the child until they took care of business. They sent her weekly right off to the very people they claimed were abusing her, they didn't take her to the doctor, or call the police. They just waited and waited and allowed it to continue (if you believe their accusations, which I don't) while they waited for Hannah to have her baby.

THEN the very first thing Jake did was go to the hospital to see about that baby.

If their sick twisted thinking was protect Sophia, then they would have done that immediately.

If you believe your child is being SA and you don't trust police or the dr, then you also don't WAIT for another baby to be born before you protect your own child?

They were calculated and this was about control, NOT about SA. They didn't act like they believed the SA was actually happening. They just didn't. Where was Jake's attempts to keep Sophia longer than he was allowed? If you believed your child was being harmed wouldn't you be saying, I can keep her longer, I mean I'd think he would be overly helpful in taking care of her during the end of Hannah's pregnancy. Don't really see anything like that either.

 

[Skully67]

I don't understand why everyone.....juror, witnesses, can only rely on their memory, and not on any written documents. My mind is such that I don't remember what I hear, but I do remember what I've written down...and I often keep notes of important events in case I need to recall it later...such as when did this fever start, what symptoms did you have, etc. If I had to rely on memory....forget it. Seems unfair and the courts loss on valuable evidence.

 

[ColMustard]

Judge isn't cutting AC any slack right now, he looks a bit PO'd. Arguing to admit recorded discussion about borrowing money from FW until an insurance check comes in.

Also discussion about catalytic converters but I can't hear it very well.

 

[Pru2U]

I don't understand why everyone.....juror, witnesses, can only rely on their memory, and not on any written documents. My mind is such that I don't remember what I hear, but I do remember what I've written down...and I often keep notes of important events in case I need to recall it later...such as when did this fever start, what symptoms did you have, etc. If I had to rely on memory....forget it. Seems unfair and the courts loss on valuable evidence.

Are you talking about the transcripts in current debate?

 

[twall]

Judge isn't cutting AC any slack right now, he looks a bit PO'd. Arguing to admit discussion about borrowing money from FW until an insurance check comes in.

Also discussion about catalytic converters but I can't hear it very well.

I guess ladies of the night (trying to say it as to not get censored) is code for stealing catalytic converters!

 

[Betty P]

I don't understand why everyone.....juror, witnesses, can only rely on their memory, and not on any written documents. My mind is such that I don't remember what I hear, but I do remember what I've written down...and I often keep notes of important events in case I need to recall it later...such as when did this fever start, what symptoms did you have, etc. If I had to rely on memory....forget it. Seems unfair and the courts loss on valuable evidence.

The jurors are allowed to take notes.

 

[Skully67]

Are you talking about the transcripts in current debate?

That, and other things throughout this trial.

 

[Pru2U]

A

The jurors are allowed to take notes.

I thought they could review anything entered (accepted) into evidence and also rely on the court transcripts of testimony.

Is that wrong?

 

[Dudly]

Jmo but have you ever seen a haul like Jake described. Going to murder people. I would just like to see it as true to description. Did they plan to drive slow and cautious to avoid losing load? The deputies could have put hay bales on top, why didn’t they do that?

They were proving two men the size of JW and GWIV could fit in that space. They weren’t proving you could haul a load of hay with it. MOO

 

[Skully67]

That, and other things throughout this trial.

Such as...if I was part of the investigation team, I'd have to refer to my notes to be able to remember details of when, how, why, where, etc. Without referring to my notes, there would be no way I could answer truthfully. That's why I write things down. Documentation.

 

[justtrish]

You state this so perfect. If I may add to it, JW wants his brother out. JW must testify against his brother to take the DP off the table. Jake will, IMO, downplay every action GW4 took that night. Jake will, IMO, downplay as much as he can get away with and still satisfy the prosecution.

Couple of examples:
IMO, Jake didn't know if prints were on the gun (etc), so he stated GW4 held the gun but wouldn't shoot.
IMO, GW4 wanted to protect Jake, not from Billy, but the Rhodens.

It makes no sense to me for Jake to place GW4 at the murder scene if GW4 wasn't there. IMO, Jake felt the prosecution knew GW4 was there and had to admit it to get the DP off the table.

I "think" the Wagner family has hopes that GW4 will somehow at least try to break the others out of prison. I "think" the Wagner family has discussed this during their meetings regarding what to do if any or all of them are arrested. I would love to know if they also watched 'Prison Break". I think the family wants one of them on the outside to take care of them and other things.

BBM - EXACTLY!

George the skilled hunter.
George that likes the SKS
George that is stronger

They intended to use the handguns to shoot them in the head to make it quick, immeidatete and no chance to get up and fight back, etc. Less messy and complicated if they are already in bed. The exception is Chris Sr house because they can't sneak in to his house, they know Gary is there. They know Chris Sr is very well armed in his hosue, with cameras, no sneaking up on him and too many unknowns with Gary. Will he be awake wired up on cocaine? Will he be sleeping in the front room? Will the camera catch them coming in? They needed a 3rd person to be there in case it all went bad. They needed another set of eyes and ears, and what better person than George the skilled hunter that is great with a rifle.. rifles are good for longer distances. George can see threats coming and he has the right weapon to eliminate them if Jake or Billy might be confronted from someone outside the house. The Rhodens lived on that road.. many of them. If anyone came over to see what was up, George was there with that rifle ready to eliminate the threat.

They were willing to go as far as to murder anyone that was there in order to get Sophia, do we really think they were going to leave the door open for one or both of them to get killed during this and then they die and don't have Sophia or is it most likely they wanted to eliminate as much risk as possible by having someone along that could have their back if the worst case happened and others showed up or others were there that night?

I have seen the argument that Jake killed all 8 or Jake could have done it all and he could have had 3 guns, etc. Yes he sure could have and if his motive was to kill everyone and go out in a blaze of glory then I'd say yep could happen that way. His goal was Sophia, killing people was not the reason for what he did. If he could have gotten Sophia (in his mind) some other way, he would have done it, George got Vine and didn't kill everyone, but he couldn't get Sophia (in his mind) the legal way in court. Getting Sophia was the reason he killed (meaning he didn't just want to murder all these people. So with the motive they had, I don't see Jake going alone and risking it all. If he got killed during an attempted murder of all these people, then his family would NEVER get Sophia.

 

[Pru2U]

That, and other things throughout this trial.

My understanding is everything entered & accepted into evidence for jury to review it later.

The transcripts of audios have not been accepted into evidence because the transcription could be considered as a personal interpretation of what was said. The judge wants the jury to rely on their own ears.

 

[ColMustard]

A
I thought they could review anything entered (accepted) into evidence and also rely on the court transcripts of testimony.

Is that wrong?

According to the judge, those transcripts won't be going to the jury room. Talking about the transcripts of the truck bugging recordings.

I would probably be handicapped if I had to refer to my own notes.

 

[Pru2U]

According to the judge, those transcripts won't be going to the jury room.

I would probably be handicapped if I had to refer to my own notes.

Right. The transcripts have not been accepted into evidence.

Edit: Are we talking about the audio transcripts only? I believe the jury can request court reporter's transcripts of testimony.

 

[Chelly]

Lawyers continue to argue before judge over admission of wiretaps. They are going over about 28 audios/transcripts one-by-one. Poor jury continuing to wait in jury room.

 

[Skully67]

According to the judge, those transcripts won't be going to the jury room.

I would probably be handicapped if I had to refer to my own notes.

As I said...I can't rely on my own hearing to remember what was said. And although as a juror you're allowed to take notes, the court isn't going to slow down testimony to allow you to catch up with your notes.