OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

[rsd1200]

Go Clark Go!

Clark has been one of my favorite people in this trial along with ballistics awesome beard guy.

 

[ColMustard]

Clark has been one of my favorite people in this trial along with ballistics awesome beard guy.

The beard of knowledge!

 

[abeaman02]

I rode from Ohio to Florida on a chaise lawn chair in the back of a pickup with a topper on it. 16 hours. I also made the return trip.

You are my idol!

 

[Pru2U]

Thank you, Idk where I heard 18 bales, but I thought that was serious overkill no pun intended.

Eighteen or eight to ten. Hay or straw (straw weighs significantly less than hay)...I don't know but in the overall scheme of things, I don't see the hay being a big deal breaker in this case. I'm not much convinced it's worth the second thought to the jury but the defense is fighting for a man's life so graspingfor the proverbial straw (or hay) is to be expected, I guess.

 

[Betty P]

I bet she couldn't do this to Fred. Doesn't look like she got anything from Fred she probably tried to get. She complained about working 16 hour 3rd shifts for Fred cleaning stalls and having to run Crystal Spring residents to appointments when she "could stand it." Fred sold the trailer and property they lived on out from under them so they were mad and burned down the trailer for insurance money.

Fred never showed up at Angie's hearings and when Angie tried to sell a horse for Fred, Fred called her and told her she didn't charge enough according to a horse website I posted a long time ago.

Nope. I think Fred was the one person Angie couldn't control.

I've always assumed Fred and AW didn't get along. I doubt Fred got along with any of her daughters in law. She was queen bee of the Wagner dynasty and other women had to know their place. Like mucking out the stalls in the barn. Wow. That said, AW probably learned her power-grabbing and control skills from her MIL. There's probably no greater crime to Fred than causing her son and grandsons to spend their lives in prison.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Sleuthers
One question for you all to think about,
If Little Chris and Frankie where supposed to have been abusing little SW, then Why was Hanna Hazel Giley shot so many times in her face to where they couldn’t open her casket!
Little Chris and Frankie was killed just so they couldn’t retaliate against the Wagner’s, this Wagner crime family needs locked up or GW4 will kill again, JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I've always assumed Fred and AW didn't get along. I doubt Fred got along with any of her daughters in law. She was queen bee of the Wagner dynasty and other women had to know their place. Like mucking out the stalls in the barn. Wow. That said, AW probably learned her power-grabbing and control skills from her MIL. There's probably no greater crime to Fred than causing her son and grandsons to spend their lives in prison.

Yes, it sounds like you think she blames Angie and Angie nagging Billy to do something and so forth. And Angie is the mom, sopose to take care of Fred's grandsons, not encourage them to go out and commit mass murders while she sits home and says she doesn't know what happened at the crime scenes. Bull. She would have asked them to tell her every single detail to make sure they covered their tracks.

Yup. I bet Fred blames Angie. No wonder Angie has no money for phone calls. Fred sure as heck won't fund her jail account. How I see it.

 

[Chingaling]

Thank you, Idk where I heard 18 bales, but I thought that was serious overkill no pun intended.

It was 12 bales but no link so MOO

 

[justtrish]

They sure did seem to have an awful time for such adept shooters. They watched them walk to the grow and back iirc. @ColMustard may not be wrong. Seems G3 went in alone didn't he? Comes back out to talk to them, with the ruse of having CR call a non existent phone. I don't dislike it.

I really think the silencer messed up that gun. I was researching silencers when this trial started and we first heard about the mag light flash light being used. I have some of those and I thought to myself HOW in the world.. lol I learned that silencers from fuel filters and well any kind of alteration to the gun can cause it to be heavier and harder to aim as well as causing the aim to be off. It is also a lot harder to hit a moving target that is not moving in a predictible way. A deer for example might be still or slowly walking in a direction you can predict very well and aim accordingly. A human I would imagine would be very different. I also think trying to hit one person and not hit your dad might cause one to aim further away from where dad was trying to make sure you hit the target.

Unfortunately I am getting a horrible picture of Chris getting his arm shot and him franticly moving about and then the shooter (I still question if this was Jake or George at this point) is firing trying to hit him as he's moving which could be those shots that didn't hit him and instead hit the door and everywhere else.

 

[rsd1200]

HA!

The defense will have to pull a miracle out of the hat. They need to convince one juror that both Jake and Angela were lying about George's involvement, lying that George was even at the murder scenes, and believe George didn't know anything. One juror.

Then it is a mistrial and we get to do it all over again. No way will the defense convince 12 people. I think if one has doubts that the others will convince them otherwise. Happens all the time.

It's A fact Jack, that when co-defendants turn State's evidence and testify for the Prosecution, it is allmost impossible for the defense to win their Case. Without Angela and Jake testifying, George would have a reasonable chance to maybe beat some of his charges, maybe be acquitted of the murders and even all of the charges. Mom and brother are sending him to prison.

Lesson: never waive your speedy trial rights. Have your trial before your co-defendants turn on you. Fred did not waive her speedy trial rights and got her charges dismissed because they ran out of time. Prosecution said they needed more time to go over other evidence.

He's sunk, I agree. Is there any physical evidence that puts him there? I don't think I've seen that. Is there enough convincing evidence to make me believe, just seeing from my armchair, and even missing parts,( thanks to opting out), that he had some role in the conspiracy to commit the murders? I'd have to go with a yes. The witnesses who were closest to the four, were the most damning to me. CN, TC, EA gave us a window. The way AW manipulated her mother, she could have manipulated him. Easily. A backrub and promise of a new life in AK. He was a part, and from the way he spoke to 'vine in the truck, he was not angry at 'vine, he was afraid. Afraid he'd lose 'vine. No questions, as OP said, about WHAT WAS THAT all about? He knew, and he was scared. He was willing to flip the coin to get a chance to be back with his son. He had the most to lose and he lost. JM2

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Sleuthers
One question for you all to think about,
If Little Chris and Frankie where supposed to have been abusing little SW, then Why was Hanna Hazel Giley shot so many times in her face to where they couldn’t open her casket!
Little Chris and Frankie was killed just so they couldn’t retaliate against the Wagner’s, this Wagner crime family needs locked up or GW4 will kill again, JMO

She was shot so many times because Jake knew her brother (charlie) was the father of Hanna Rhoden's new baby. Correct me if I am wrong but I think there was a paternity test after the murders and it was found out to be Charlie's and not Jake's child. I do not give much credibility to any of the Wagner's accusations of abuse. I believe GW4 was involved in the planning, execution, and cover up of these murders and yes should be locked up.

 

[rsd1200]

Sleuthers
One question for you all to think about,
If Little Chris and Frankie where supposed to have been abusing little SW, then Why was Hanna Hazel Giley shot so many times in her face to where they couldn’t open her casket!
Little Chris and Frankie was killed just so they couldn’t retaliate against the Wagner’s, this Wagner crime family needs locked up or GW4 will kill again, JMO

She introduced HMR and her brother didn't she? Maybe one or two of those shots were for her brother. I don't think she was collateral. She was at FR's trailer most of the time b/c she'd not gotten her license. I think of her often.

 

[gizmobtj]

Forgive me if someone has answered this recently, but is there any speculation on the dice rolled to 11 on George's tattoo?

 

[rsd1200]

This trial has made me realize that maybe our courts are a little "rusty". The vast majority of cases today are settled before the trial. Most of the activity (just guessing) is arraignments, pre-trial hearings, etc. It's not that often there are full courtroom trials and major murder trials like these are pretty rare.

Prosecutors, judges and defense attorneys aren't used to doing business this way on a regular basis.

No, they are not. They love the plea. Cheap, easier, and considered a win on both sides. I've seen both of these happen. I've also seen people fight out something, to the end. They did win, but they did NOT get their confiscated property back.

"At least 95% of cases end up pleading because it's a certain outcome and, frankly, it's less expensive and time-consuming. Although there are exceptions, you typically know what's going to happen with a plea. In addition, a plea is not as much work as a trial. A trial is public, very stressful and time-consuming. "

Do Most Criminal Cases Go To Trial Or Do They Plead Out?

Why do innocent people plea out?

"Police and prosecutors get evaluated based on their success rate, which means the rate at which they catch and convict people accused of specific kinds of offenses.

When state prosecutors try to bring criminal charges against someone, it is standard practice to maximize the charges and potential penalties. In some cases, prosecutors who get creative may be able to turn a single offense into multiple criminal charges or turn what seems like a victimless crime into a serious felony.

It is exactly the practice of inflating the criminal charges people face that often pushes people into pleading guilty when they know that they are innocent. If an individual faces decades of incarceration or other life-altering consequences, they may become less worried about proving their innocence than they are about mitigating the worst possible consequences.

In other words, innocent people plead guilty because they can’t tolerate the risk involved in defending themselves and possibly getting convicted."

Why do many innocent people accept plea bargains to avoid court? | Hindman & Lanzon

 

[rsd1200]

I guess if I wss a criminal, and a murderer like 4, Id want the likes of nash and parker on my side to muddy the waters. They have nothing in defense of their client. They have silly games because they are never prepared.

Conversely, if Im sitting on the jury Id find it difficult to give the defense any leeway.

Smiley must be having a hardy laugh.

Smiley.

 

[Ozarka]

I am supposed to testify in a trial that was originally scheduled for 2018. There have been numerous postponements for every reason under the sun and Covid, of course. By the time it actually happens, if it does, I may not remember anything. It’s a good thing I gave a written statement at the time. Pleas definitely seem to be more plentiful than trials these days.

 

[rsd1200]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

About to start afternoon session of Wagner trial in Pike Co. back on record with no jury. Still working through the recordings and transcripts of wiretaps.

Now doing a hearing about transcripts defense has issues with - judge says one had been added later and wasn't in original group.

Some of these wiretaps are on phone calls not in the truck. Defense argues those are very clear and no listening aid are not needed. Prosecution says there needs to be help identifying who is talking when with multiple voices.

Canepa: "It doesn't hurt to have this it will only help." Defense objects to that. Deering will alow them to use these in courtroom during testimony - not in jury room in deliberations. The evidence are the tapes not the transcripts. Now going to argue each one.

First one up for debate - showing the family working as a family. Nowhere is there discord. George asking for money from grandmother as they wait for insurance money. And that George sold catalytic converters.

Prosecution says this shows finances all intertwined against what defense are argued. This insurance money is from George's truck Jake wrecked with Chris Newcomb inside. Deering allows it to be withheld - doesn't see the relevance.

Next one - defense wants to exclude conversation with Beth and Jake where Beth complains about living with Angela. That objection overruled and it will be allowed.

Next one - defense wants entire 21 minutes used for context. Prosecution only pulled 4-5 minutes.

George is upset because Jake's daughter called Beth “Mommy"

Judge will rule onto later. Onto the eighth one - objection overruled. Don't know what the content was.
Ninth one: Prosecutor: George says only way they can get into trouble is if they cave and they crumble and he's going on offensive. He's saying what to say and do

Objection overruled for that one. Next one - defense wants to omit because it involves other improper acts or a possible threat - it is not a true threat.

Defense says none of charges George faces involve making threats. Also not a true threat because George was possibly on other side of the country.

Prosecution: threats to law enforcement officers investigating you is possible admission of guilt therefore are relevant.

Canepa also reads snippet of transcript: George says something about crumbling and holding the line with regard to crimes. Judge will allow it, also allowing picture sent by George to Angela of a letter of some sort.

That is also allowed given it went from George's phone, and they later talked about it on phone.

Another snippet - Jake and Angela making plans for their arrests. Prosecutors say it shows group think of family - defense says it's hearsay and also doesn't involve George.

Next one involves George saying something vulgar about BCI agent Ryan Scheiderer - prosecutor says this is George's statement. Threats to law enforcement is probative to case. Also shows George knows they are being listened to.

George says Ryan I know you're listening to this. Deering says this is relevant part is relevant. But says rest is a rant and is not relevant. Prejudicial aspect outweighs probative aspect. Will allow the part about listened to aspect, but not the rest.

Next one defense objects to George talking to Chris Newcomb. Talks about "Olympics" - a reference to poaching deer. George says we should know their plans by October (regarding law enforcement and arrest)

Jake had previously testified "Olympics" meant poaching/hunting season.

Wagners also thought they were going to get arrested right before the election in 2018. Deering holding off on ruling - saying he doesn't remember Jake testifying to that. Prosecutor says the call includes more context if needed.

Next one: another threat and possibly throwing investigators off the track. Judge allows it

Next one: Prosecutor says its strong evidence showing George and Angela discussed welfare of Jake's daughter. That George was also involved in that decision as well as what happened to Jake's wife at the time.

A huge fight over this - as testy as we've ever gotten in hearings, with Parker saying "that's the flaw in your case" regarding George and his involvement. It involved George expressing concern over Jake's daughter. Judge allows it to be played as well as next one.

Not been able to do play by play, but Deering is keeping most of these. One was how George said one of the guns wasn't his, when it was - and he knew they were being listened to.

Next one: George says "The family has spoken" when it comes to removing Beth Ann. It is allowed to be played.

Following one is omitted and withheld regarding George talking too much.

Canepa says one of them is probative because it shows George was in the thick of it. But Deering not allowing any one involving George getting an attorney. Canepa wants stipulation that John Clark was George's lawyer too at that point.

But Deering allows next recording regarding getting a lawyer for Rita Newcomb for handwriting sample issue.

Another one banned: Argument between George and Jake over fight between their kids - who hit who first? Judge sustains objection

Next one - Jake saying he bought Winter Soldier mask for George (on same day be bought over stuff for homicides). Judge will allow that

Next one - George takes ownership for buying bug detector, but defense gets judge to say prosecutors need to add more time to recording for context

Text message string involving picture of murder weapon from Jake's phone. Apparently Billy was looking for 1911 gun asking Angela - who asked George and Jake?

That one allowed. Next one is conversation b/w George and Jake arguing over who's watching their kids. That one is banned by Deering. Next one between George and Angela allowed - possibly shows George still part of family unit - will be allowed

By my count, judge overruled 20 objections, there were about 7-8 with no objection, he sustained about 14-15 objections. And 7 were left for later. Not exact. Looks as if they're letting the jury go today without testimony.

Thank you so much for doing this! I so appreciate it! I appreciate all of the transcribers! G4: "The family has spoken." How much weirder can this get? I mean, he can't be saying that in jest. That's a bad movie line.

 

[rsd1200]

Defense argument about exhaust fumes is a moot point. It's not a factor if the truck had a tailpipe, and probably even if it had no exhaust pipes at all. I rode from Ohio to Florida on a chaise lawn chair in the back of a pickup with a topper on it. 16 hours. I also made the return trip.

The only time I've strapped down hay is when it was stacked extra high and headed down the freeway. When you load the bales you interlock each bale on top of each other and alternate which direction the bales are turned, the entire load is being held except the top layer. The top layer is usually fewer bales, just holding the ends of the bales underneath but not extending to the edge.

If I'm George I'm saying c'mon guys, is this all we have?!! At this point he's just trying to enjoy the ride to court. moo

BIBM Before CPS was an issue, and seat belts and child safety seats, bleh bleh bleh so did I. The folks tossed a mattress in the bed of a the new farm truck, for us kids, some crayons, coloring books, seems the crayons melted come Ga... We nearly suffocated but we rolled out the side windows and had a blast. That lawyer hasn't ever lived.

 

[rsd1200]

Not to argue, but loose hay would have most likely fallen between the crack between board & tailgate, I really do believe it would have been pushed out when they "slithered out". IF there was hay to begin with.
JMO

BTW @rsd1200 I almost went cross eyed looking through tweets & still haven't found the reporting on where they parked the truck or even anything using the term "slithered out". I'm sure it's here somewhere but I called uncle.

The "slithered" out part is from AC's opening.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1569377581702545410

I was thinking someone had posted they had loaded 18 bales on the truck. I felt that would have shown even in the grainy outlines b/c it would have been an odd shape. I think an odd lump or two of hay in CR1s drive would have been noticeable to BCI. They combed the grass. I just thought he meant he used it to hide the truck behind. Again, I don't think it would sway a jury.

 

[Skully67]

BIBM Before CPS was an issue, and seat belts and child safety seats, bleh bleh bleh so did I. The folks tossed a mattress in the bed of a the new farm truck, for us kids, some crayons, coloring books, seems the crayons melted come Ga... We nearly suffocated but we rolled out the side windows and had a blast. That lawyer hasn't ever lived.

What does BIBM mean?