OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[arielilane]

Day 2 AW testimony

Pike County murder trial: Angela told the prosecution bloody shoeprints belonged to George
Angela Canepa, special prosecutor, asked Angela whether she'd believed at any point the Wagners would get away with the murders.
"My belief is even if we hadn't ended up in jail or arrested," the family would never "get away with it," because they had to live with what they'd done regardless.

"I remember just looking at the door and hoping and praying they would come out," said Angela, adding she was concerned her sons would be arrested for the murders that very day.

Around the same time this was happening, Billy, George and Jake were subpoenaed by BCI to come in and submit to "something with their feet," said Angela. Canepa said they were made to provide foot measurements and foam impressions of their feet.
Angela said she spoke to George about it, asking what happened because she was worried. She knew there were bloody footprints left at one of the crime scenes, she said, because George had told her he'd attempted to smudge them, but Billy hurried him out of the room too quickly, telling him "don't worry about it, come on.”

Later, Canepa asked Angela whether she knew who was responsible for the footprints; she initially responded that she didn't. Canepa asked her to read a transcript of the testimony she gave the prosecution during her plea deal, which Angela said sparked her memory.
She quietly replied that George had told her the bloody footprints at the home where Chris Sr. and Gary were murdered were his.

After the murders, Angela said she noticed her sons didn't act like themselves; Jake was distractable and unfocused and George wasn't sleeping because he was having nightmares, she said. She approached her husband with concerns.

"I was feeling bad, I was worried about them," she said. "I told him I don't think we should have involved them in the homicides, the planning, any of it.”
It's a regret she still carries, she said, "because they're my sons" and she should have protected them.


As Canepa began to wrap up her line of questioning, she asked Angela whether she'd been complicit in the murders of the Rhodens; Angela answered that she had, telling the jury George, Jake and Billy were all also complicit in the crimes.

 

[arielilane]

Day 3 AW testimony

Pike County murder trial: Murders were about protection, not custody, said Angela


As Richard Nash, George's defense attorney, resumed cross examination of Angela, he attempted to paint the mother as having a clear preference for her younger son, over George. Angela denied she had a favorite son and told the jury she loved both equally.

Billy also threatened to force Angela to accompany him during the murder spree, she said.
Billy doled out instructions on what to do leading up to the homicides, she said, including telling her to send texts from George and Jake's phones to make it look like they were home during the homicides. Nash accused her of only sending the alibi messages for Jake, not George, but she denied that.
"I am pretty sure I did both phones," she said.

She said it was true that George helped the family in planning the murders and covering it up afterward, though she said to this day she doesn't know who shot whom the night of April 21, 2016.

Canepa and Nash finished questioning Angela and she stepped down from the witness stand Thursday afternoon.

 

[Skully67]

I hate that your right
LMAO

I don't know where you live @Cool Cats but from being on here many years with various people stating they are from Pike County or surrounding areas, I have seen a very distinct aversion to LE, DA's, Judges and court in general. Maybe because the people in the area have been to court where the DA twists their words, or the judge rules against them. Or had a relative or friend that was done that way. Pike County is who the jury is made up of. That jury looks at George and they see someone who is from the area. Many of them may have the same lifestyle, hunting, fishing, riding ATV's, drinking, carousing around. Good ole boys. Then they look at the lack of evidence against him and think this is a DP case, we have to send one of our own to death. Can they do it on the lack of solid evidence that has been presented? I don't know. I know I could not. I would want more proof than the prosecution has presented.

I would like to be clear why you think the jury, well some of the jury, won't believe Angela and Jake's testimony?

Because they sat there and watched Jake laugh, smirk and smile all through his testimony. I think they would be thinking this is all a joke to him. He can't stop laughing because he is lying. He is smirking because he thinks we are stupid and will just believe anything he says.

Then you have evidence that proves both Jake and Angie lied on the stand. So much of the evidence does not match up to what little we know they testified to. That is only a small portion that was published in tweets from reporters. Just think about how much their entire testimony does not match the evidence.

that would be illegal.

It is not illegal.

Jake went to Canepa, not the other way around. She did not persuade or force him to come to her. She did not bribe him to come to her. He did that of his own free will. She tells him okay, tell us your story. When he gave the first story, which the defense has, he said George was not in the planning, did not participate, and did not cover up. Canepa says no deal, I know George was there, so if you want a plea deal then give me the real story where George was there. If you do that I will throw in a plea deal for your mother of 30 years. And take the DP off the table. That is not illegal for her to do that. After all if she doesn't buy his story then it is her right as prosecutor to say no deal.

So Jake tells a different story. This time George was there but did not shoot anyone. That is the proffer Canepa has.

Plus Canepa said during one of the motions that they got several proffers from Jake before they settled on one. She even said that the one they eventually settled on had many inconstancies with the evidence BCI had.

Go back and listen to the openings where Canepa says George was there but Parker says Jake will testify that George did not plan, participate or even know until later about Jake killing 8 people. Vast difference there and Jake ended up testifying to Canepa's proffer not the one the defense had. So read between the lines.

Why do you think there is two vastly different stories? One for the prosecution and one for the defense.

Then you have that pre trial hearing in Canepa's own words where she said Jake told several different stories and they had to keep making him go over his story until they got one that was halfway consistent with the evidence.

As far as Angie. Jake told her or Rita or granny or whoever if she wanted that 30 year deal, she had to sacrifice George and throw him under the bus. So Angie, being a fan of herself, saved her own azz and sacrificed her son, George.

JMO

Have we seen or read these proffers? If not, will the defense introduce them?

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Day 3 AW testimony

Pike County murder trial: Murders were about protection, not custody, said Angela


As Richard Nash, George's defense attorney, resumed cross examination of Angela, he attempted to paint the mother as having a clear preference for her younger son, over George. Angela denied she had a favorite son and told the jury she loved both equally.

Billy also threatened to force Angela to accompany him during the murder spree, she said.
Billy doled out instructions on what to do leading up to the homicides, she said, including telling her to send texts from George and Jake's phones to make it look like they were home during the homicides. Nash accused her of only sending the alibi messages for Jake, not George, but she denied that.
"I am pretty sure I did both phones," she said.

She said it was true that George helped the family in planning the murders and covering it up afterward, though she said to this day she doesn't know who shot whom the night of April 21, 2016.

Canepa and Nash finished questioning Angela and she stepped down from the witness stand Thursday afternoon.

Very powerful testimony. All three days that you posted. It really says something when your own mother testifies on the stand against you in a murder trial. All four of these wagners are guilty of conspiring to kill 8 people. All four.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Have we seen or read these proffers? If not, will the defense introduce them?

I don't know, but I know they are out there, Canepa talked about them on a public pre trial hearing in front of the judge.

 

[Pru2U]

IMO TC feared for her life and most likely is still in fear. Only a battered woman would understand TC and her actions. I’m glad she made it out alive and is with her son. Having your child with you is the greatest gift of all.

She was young & in love. Too young for marriage and babies. She was abused from a very young age. All she ever wanted was to be loved and she thought she had found that with George - yet she didn’t want her life or her child to be controlled by Angela. I believe George loved her as well but Angela’s control over him was stronger. With nary a nickel to her name & nowhere else to go, she returned to her mother’s home, knowing she couldn’t take her child for fear he could suffer the same abuse she had, believing George would work with her fairly once she got on her feet. She was so young, a child herself. She just wanted to love and be loved…and to feel safe. If she couldn’t control her life or take care of herself, she understood she couldn’t do it with or for a child. Fact is, she did what she thought was best for the child. She did not have the self confidence or maturity to raise a child on her on her own. She did not have the individual income or support from family George did. But then it all went horribly wrong. First, they made excuse after excuse to keep her from seeing her son. Then they refused to let her mother or sisters accompany her on her visits. Then the harassment started in earnest. Angela admitted on the stand to calling LE & anonymously suggesting she had drugs in her car. On one visit with her son, Tabi believed AW gave her infant daughter drugs (AW denied). There was a variety of extenuating circumstances as to why Tabi didn’t seek custody, even as her own circumstances improved. I’m not making excuses for her, I’m being realistic about the seemingly impossible situation she had found herself in. I don’t think she was originally in physical fear of George (prior to Hanna’s death), I think she realized she wasn’t a match for the endless evil trickery by Angela Wagner.

 

[NWLady]

Hey Sleuthers
What about on day 40 when Jake is talking to Angela about Beth and George is in the background say Ryan I want to Kill You!

Well, @Johnny B Bad, remember what Judge Deering said about the other recording where GW was making threats, Deering said it was a "rant." So, I'm guessing Deering would consider the recording you're referencing a "rant" also? <insert sarcasm>

But you know, IMO, I wonder what Deering would think about GW's "rant" if those so-called "rants" (and address search) were directed towards him or his family, along with his address being searched for) on a computer used by people who were being investigated, questioned, etc. in regards to 8 murder victims? JMO, but I'd bet he would THEN consider those statements to be more that just a "rant" I reckon.

ETA: And yeah, I remember Deering also adding something else in with the rant comment/opinion, which I can't remember his specific wording but IIRC, it was something to do with not allowing it also because could cause reason for mistrial or some BS IMO. Yet, AW sat up there on the witness stand accusing some of the victims of SA of a child, etc. But oh no, we can't let the jurors hear GW's threats to a BCI agent, etc!

Sorry, my "rant" is over now. But on that thought, I probably shouldn't call it a "rant" because in Deering's opinion/expressed definition of just a "rant," I would have had to threaten to kill somebody! Hmmmm....things that make you go hmmmmmmm.....

This is all JMO/thoughts.

 

[Pru2U]

The only reason to say George was involved is because he was involved.

THIS! Whether their testimony gets GW convicted of any or all or none of the charges, their testimonies ARE valid & will carry some weight.

 

[arielilane]

Day 1 JW testimony

Pike County murder trial: 'I felt I had no other choice than to kill Hanna,' Jake Wagner told jury

Jake Wagner was in the courthouse Monday to testify against his brother as George Wagner IV's murder trial entered its seventh week. Jake opted out of being recorded by media, so his testimony will not be seen by anyone outside of the courtroom.

Jake's father told him to collect the guns they needed to commit the murders, prepare a silencer device and buy a vehicle that couldn't be traced back to the family. Jake chose a .22-caliber Colt 1911 — the weapon used to kill Frankie, Hannah Hazel, Dana, Hanna Rhoden and Chris Jr. — and a .40-caliber Glock pistol — the weapon used to kill Chris Sr., Gary and Kenneth.
He also test-fired George's SKS rifle, but it failed when he tested a homemade silencer on it, Jake said. After he tried making silencers from two different kinds of flashlights, the family decided instead to use oil filters.
Then, he bought a pick-up truck from his great uncle, he said. George was with him the day he bought it in early April 2016, just before the Rhodens were murdered.
Jake told the jury he modified the truck, creating a false bed providing a hiding spot for him and George. Then, Jake said he told his mother to buy two pairs of shoes.

He, Angela and George made the child custody documents and Angela forged Hanna's signature.

He and George dyed their hair dark to match their favorite character from the TV show The Walking Dead, Daryl Dixon. To psych himself up before the murders, he said he watched a clip from the movie Boondock Saints; he smiled and held back laughter in the courtroom when the prosecution made him watch the clip in court.

The night of the murders, Jake told the jury he had the Colt pistol, Billy took the Glock and George had his SKS rifle. Jake said Billy drove them to Chris Sr.'s home where they planned to lure him and his cousin Gary outside, but George didn't pull the trigger when the chance arose, despite having a clear shot.
"I told him to shoot, but he didn't," said Jake.
Jake took his brother's position outside Chris Sr.'s trailer, he said, and Billy pretended to search for his cell phone, asking Chris Sr. to call it so he could track it down. When Chris Sr. stepped into sight again, Jake pulled the trigger.
He said he was aiming for Chris Sr.'s head, intending to fire just one shot so Chris Sr. wouldn't feel anything.
"I missed, closed my eyes and started firing in the midsection," he said.
When Billy, George and Jake arrived at Dana's home, Jake told the jury how he crept inside and into Dana's room, where he found her still awake and on her phone; he said he froze, then heard the cries of Hanna May's days-old baby.
It was then that Dana saw him and gasped, Jake said, before he shot her "once or twice.”
Then he crept to Hanna's room where he said he found her breastfeeding the infant. He said she rose up to look at him as he entered the room, then he shot her.
He returned to Dana's room and shot her again before heading down the hall to Chris Jr.'s room, where he shot the 16-year-old boy in the head.
He told the jury George and Billy had entered the home at that point, but the trio left and drove to Kenneth's camper. While Jake and George waited in the truck, he said Billy went inside and shot Kenneth.
After that, he said, the three of them drove back home to Peterson Road.

 

[arielilane]

Day 2 JW testimony

Pike County murder trial: Jake Wagner 'could not bear to think' or speak about his crimes after the murders
Then, he used a portable grinder to cut up all three guns used in the homicides, he said. The Colt 1911 and Glock were cut into two pieces and, he said he believed, the SKS rifle was cut into three pieces. With an acetylene torch, Jake said he melted the pieces, paying specific attention to the barrel where the cartridges were loaded, the serial numbers and the firing pins.
Those pieces went into a duffel bag he buried in the barn; Jake said he removed a post from the barn and he and George dug a hole underneath and placed the duffel bag inside "for a later date." Jake buried the bag and replaced the barn post.
Angela Canepa, special prosecutor, asked how strong he would say his brother was at the time.
Jake said George helped him disassemble the false bed in the pick-up truck and Billy drove it off — Jake said at the time he didn't know where Billy took it, but his father returned the same day.
They then attached chains to the tops of the buckets. Jake said, though George initially helped with the construction, Jake did the bulk of the work on a goose house.



In exchange for Jake's testimony in the trials of any family members who face a jury, prosecutors have agreed to dismiss the possibility of the death penalty for himself, his parents, Angela and Billy, and his brother, George Wagner IV, all of whom face similar charges in connection to the killings.
In addition to pleading guilty to all eight counts of aggravated murder, which is punishable by life imprisonment, Jake admitted guilt to:

• Felony conspiracy
• Aggravated burglary
• Unlawful possession of a dangerous ordinance
• Tampering with evidence
• Forgery
• Unauthorized use of property
• Interception of wire and oral communications
• Obstruction of justice
• Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity
• Unlawful sexual conduct with a minor, Hanna May Rhoden, who was 13 when their relationship began

 

[arielilane]

Day 3 JW testimony

Pike County murder trial: Jake Wagner finishes testimony as seventh week of trial wrapped up

Jake Wagner concluded his time on the witness stand on Friday, as George's defense attorney, John Parker, resumed cross-examination in Jake's fourth day of testimony.

Jake had been close with his mother, but even closer with his brother, he confirmed for Canepa, and she asked if he remembered how he'd described their relationship when he'd confessed to prosecution in April 2021.
"I think I used the word, I think I said 'two peas in a pod' maybe, for the most part," said Jake.
Canepa, too, questioned Jake on his memory — instead leading him to admit he remembered his testimony while in court, that George was present for the murders, that George helped build the false pick-up bed under which the brothers hid that night, that George wore a ski mask and a pair of the Walmart shoes and that he possessed the SKS rifle that night.
George had aimed the rifle, but failed to fire, Canepa asked; Jake said he didn't know if George aimed, but that the rifle was pointed toward Chris Sr.'s home.
After Jake, instead, fired the rifle and Billy fired his .40 caliber Glock from inside the trailer, Canepa asked what Billy said to him when he ran, hysterical, out of the home.
"He had asked me to shoot him too," said Jake.

 

[justtrish]

Then that makes me wonder why Canepa had the BCI agent to say they called in Jake, Billy and George to make molds of their left foot, but yet never told us if the molds of George's foot matched either of the left shoe prints.

<modsnip: accusations with no supporting factual link>

JMO

The molds were for the shoe expert. The BCI agent testified they got instructions from him on what they needed. Who know why he needed them, but if it's part of what he wanted in order to do analysis then they did it. I also think they could have been listening to hear if it sparked any conversation.

 

[justtrish]

I don't think LE planted them there. I think Jake did.

JMO

I suppose it's possible, but it really serves no purpose. They thought it would be assumed to be drug related. They didn't know BCI would be in there that same day. They surely didn't know a shoe expert could match the exact shoe from a print, without having a shoe to compare it too. We know they planed to destroy the shoes after the fact and they did just that. They didn't plant the shoes somewhere to frame someone so why leave a print on purpose? Also, why knowingly put a victims DNA on your shoes? If they were pulled over for something unrelated or had a wreck or any number of things before they could destry them now they have DNA on their shoes. i think it was accidental in the act of moving 2 larger men who were bleeding more than they might have realized they would. I don't think they counted on Chris Sr's arm basically being blown off. It didn't go according to plan and when that happens things get done that might not be otherwise.

 

[ColMustard]

I know they mentioned ruling out shoe prints of those who found the victims as well as first responders. Also, didn't Jake testify to using a rug to smear footprints? There was something about a rug...

Yes, the rug in or near CR's kitchen, Wilson referenced that while questioning the defense expert Thursday about the blood. Seen in the picture he was showing.

One witness testified about a print either at FR's or DR's that was smudged too much to be processed. Edit: That's in addition to the print beside CR Jr's bedroom.

But it sounds like G4 was wearing the shoes if he told AW the prints in CR's were his. So ... No shoe stamps?

The defense expert said he thought he saw a lugged shoe pattern in CR's bedroom, but all he had was a picture from a distance.

 

[MadMcGoo]

HAPPY SATURDAY FOLKS!!

If you haven’t taken a break from true crime today, do so now by reading over the RULES of this site again.

Thanks,
Mad

 

[arielilane]

Day 1 JW testimony

Pike County murder trial: 'I felt I had no other choice than to kill Hanna,' Jake Wagner told jury

Jake Wagner was in the courthouse Monday to testify against his brother as George Wagner IV's murder trial entered its seventh week. Jake opted out of being recorded by media, so his testimony will not be seen by anyone outside of the courtroom.

Jake's father told him to collect the guns they needed to commit the murders, prepare a silencer device and buy a vehicle that couldn't be traced back to the family. Jake chose a .22-caliber Colt 1911 — the weapon used to kill Frankie, Hannah Hazel, Dana, Hanna Rhoden and Chris Jr. — and a .40-caliber Glock pistol — the weapon used to kill Chris Sr., Gary and Kenneth.
He also test-fired George's SKS rifle, but it failed when he tested a homemade silencer on it, Jake said. After he tried making silencers from two different kinds of flashlights, the family decided instead to use oil filters.
Then, he bought a pick-up truck from his great uncle, he said. George was with him the day he bought it in early April 2016, just before the Rhodens were murdered.
Jake told the jury he modified the truck, creating a false bed providing a hiding spot for him and George. Then, Jake said he told his mother to buy two pairs of shoes.

He, Angela and George made the child custody documents and Angela forged Hanna's signature.

He and George dyed their hair dark to match their favorite character from the TV show The Walking Dead, Daryl Dixon. To psych himself up before the murders, he said he watched a clip from the movie Boondock Saints; he smiled and held back laughter in the courtroom when the prosecution made him watch the clip in court.

The night of the murders, Jake told the jury he had the Colt pistol, Billy took the Glock and George had his SKS rifle. Jake said Billy drove them to Chris Sr.'s home where they planned to lure him and his cousin Gary outside, but George didn't pull the trigger when the chance arose, despite having a clear shot.
"I told him to shoot, but he didn't," said Jake.
Jake took his brother's position outside Chris Sr.'s trailer, he said, and Billy pretended to search for his cell phone, asking Chris Sr. to call it so he could track it down. When Chris Sr. stepped into sight again, Jake pulled the trigger.
He said he was aiming for Chris Sr.'s head, intending to fire just one shot so Chris Sr. wouldn't feel anything.
"I missed, closed my eyes and started firing in the midsection," he said.
When Billy, George and Jake arrived at Dana's home, Jake told the jury how he crept inside and into Dana's room, where he found her still awake and on her phone; he said he froze, then heard the cries of Hanna May's days-old baby.
It was then that Dana saw him and gasped, Jake said, before he shot her "once or twice.”
Then he crept to Hanna's room where he said he found her breastfeeding the infant. He said she rose up to look at him as he entered the room, then he shot her.
He returned to Dana's room and shot her again before heading down the hall to Chris Jr.'s room, where he shot the 16-year-old boy in the head.
He told the jury George and Billy had entered the home at that point, but the trio left and drove to Kenneth's camper. While Jake and George waited in the truck, he said Billy went inside and shot Kenneth.
After that, he said, the three of them drove back home to Peterson Road.

The night of the murders, Jake told the jury he had the Colt pistol, Billy took the Glock and George had his SKS rifle. Jake said Billy drove them to Chris Sr.'s home where they planned to lure him and his cousin Gary outside, but George didn't pull the trigger when the chance arose, despite having a clear shot.
"I told him to shoot, but he didn't," said Jake.
Jake took his brother's position outside Chris Sr.'s trailer, he said, and Billy pretended to search for his cell phone, asking Chris Sr. to call it so he could track it down. When Chris Sr. stepped into sight again, Jake pulled the trigger.
He said he was aiming for Chris Sr.'s head, intending to fire just one shot so Chris Sr. wouldn't feel anything.
"I missed, closed my eyes and started firing in the midsection," he said.


MOO, not believing JW for one minute. He already admitted to being a liar. IMO, there is no doubt GW4 was shooting too.

Pike County murder trial: Coroner describes two of eight victims autopsied

A forensic pathologist from the Hamilton County Coroner's Office is expected to take the stand as the trial of a man accused of murdering eight people in Pike County in 2016 continued Tuesday.

www.wcpo.com

"He had a large number of wounds to his face that turned out to be gunshot wounds, and he had two in his abdomen, and based on the evidence I knew there were several bullets that I needed to recover," she said.

In addition to that, Chris Sr. had another wound to his right forearm, where he'd been shot with a high-powered weapon, Looman said.

"His forearm was so destroyed and so lacerated that the skin was peeled back," she said. "You could see the muscles, you could see the fractured pieces of bones in there. There was so much trauma you couldn't see the entrance and exit wound. His arm was barely hanging on to the end of his elbow."

If he'd lived, Looman said the arm may not have been reparable. When she X-rayed his arm, bullet fragments still present in the arm lit up, showing a pattern she said coroners called a "snowstorm effect."

Looman described the process of determining the path the bullets took as they traveled through Chris Sr.'s body; one of those bullets severed his spine, detaching his neck from his head in a process called "internal decapitation," she said.

Tiny pieces of wood were also embedded across Chris Sr.'s face.

In all, Chris Sr. was shot a total of nine times — six times in the head and face, once in the chest, once in the abdomen and once in the forearm.

 

[justtrish]

Yes it does. He is such a law abiding citizen that he just happened to sign his name on forged documents. The same exact day as his Brother and Mother signed their name to forged documents just before these murders. He knew they were forged documents as they were back dated. I 100% believe he was in on the conspiracy prior to the murders and this is just one of the pieces of evidence that points to that. He was present the night of the murders and he assisted in the cover up.

Exactly right.

She was young & in love. Too young for marriage and babies. She was abused from a very young age. All she ever wanted was to be loved and she thought she had found that with George - yet she didn’t want her life or her child to be controlled by Angela. I believe George loved her as well but Angela’s control over him was stronger. With nary a nickel to her name & nowhere else to go, she returned to her mother’s home, knowing she couldn’t take her child for fear he could suffer the same abuse she had, believing George would work with her fairly once she got on her feet. She was so young, a child herself. She just wanted to love and be loved…and to feel safe. If she couldn’t control her life or take care of herself, she understood she couldn’t do it with or for a child. Fact is, she did what she thought was best for the child. She did not have the self confidence or maturity to raise a child on her on her own. She did not have the individual income or support from family George did. But then it all went horribly wrong. First, they made excuse after excuse to keep her from seeing her son. Then they refused to let her mother or sisters accompany her on her visits. Then the harassment started in earnest. Angela admitted on the stand to calling LE & anonymously suggesting she had drugs in her car. On one visit with her son, Tabi believed AW gave her infant daughter drugs (AW denied). There was a variety of extenuating circumstances as to why Tabi didn’t seek custody, even as her own circumstances improved. I’m not making excuses for her, I’m being realistic about the seemingly impossible situation she had found herself in. I don’t think she was originally in physical fear of George (prior to Hanna’s death), I think she realized she wasn’t a match for the endless evil trickery by Angela Wagner.

We can't forget how much manipulation and mind games wears a person down. I mean you start to question your own sanity when you deal with people that are so manipulative. I can't imagine living with someone like that and also having to convince my own spouse that I was the one that should come before his family. When George sided with mommy all the time (no matter what was going on with Tabby cheating or any of the other stuff, the relationship was George and Tabby and never should have been Angela, Tabby and George).

I try to think of my husband and I arguing and even if we push each other or are in each others space yelling (hypothetically, we don't do this) .. I can't imagine my mother in law throwing a 2x4 at me and saying she is going to get a gun. I just can't comprehend it. I mean that is assault by Angela and threats.

There is no winning when dealing with master manipulators. You try to be nice, try to be firm, try to ignore them and they just still find a way twist things so they have you feeling less than while they are seen as the queen. If you are nice, then they question why. If you ignore them, they make up things to get your "in trouble", if you push back then they really turn up the heat. It's just a no win and I think Tabatha was afraid of them all. Maybe not George alone, but knowing he was with his family and NOT going to leave them to be with her, she knew it would always be him siding with his family and her on the outside.

Also him paying that ticket just means they can hold that over her head. There is no being nice with people like that. And I've seen the argument that she must not have been afraid and it must not have been that bad because she allowed George to drive her to the court house and he paid for the ticket. No that is called she had no other choice and he was not being nice, he now had something to hold over her head.

It makes my heart hurt to try to even think of how trapped and alone Tabatha and Beth both felt and at one point Hannah Mae also, but she stood her ground and had family that could support her and help her. The other two did not. Look where this left Hannah and her entire family. I'd say anyone in close proximity to this family had reason to fear.

 

[NWLady]

I am having a hard time understanding why JW and AW would testify about GW's involvement IF he wasn't truly involved? Wouldn't it serve all 4 W's better to have at least 1 of them on the outside? Especially 1 of them that is the father to one of the children, who IMO, more than likely could get custody of the other child also? Are JW and AW just sayin GW was involved to help the State and to get their plea bargains? Which brings to mind another question then, is JW that scared of dieing/death sentence vs LWOP? You would really testify/implicate your brother in a crime that he wasn't involved in and have him risk getting LWOP or death sentence?? And would AW testify against her son IF he wasn't involved just so she could get her plea of 30 years (which IMO is about the same as LWOP as she will be 78 or so when she gets out?

In summary, 2 family members testify against another to say he was involved if he wasn't?!

Just to be clear, I do believe GW is guilty- I am just playing devil's advocate and really trying to accept the idea of 2 people testifying against another family member to say he was involved in something that he really wasn't?

JMO

 

[Skully67]

I don't believe anything AW said. As for JW, I'm on the fence for some of his testimony.

 

[Betty P]

Later, Canepa asked Angela whether she knew who was responsible for the footprints; she initially responded that she didn't. Canepa asked her to read a transcript of the testimony she gave the prosecution during her plea deal, which Angela said sparked her memory.
She quietly replied that George had told her the bloody footprints at the home where Chris Sr. and Gary were murdered were his.

Yes, important to remember. George admitted that his bloody footprints were at Chris Sr's.
vea
Her testimony confirms what was revealed from shoeprint evidence.

Jake confirms the same re shoeprints. Neither AW or JW were allowed to speak to or otherwise communicate with each other during incarceration. In this respect, their stories match.