OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[rsd1200]

And when she saw all that blood on the floor in the living room why did she go back to the bedroom? Why didn't she just back out like her brother JM did? Why did she allow her friends who were with her go back into the bedroom? Or even go into the house? Why did she call Lenny who also went back into the bedroom? Who else tramped through that crime scene that we don't know about before LE got there? What evidence was destroyed by everyone and their brother traipsing through that crime scene?

JMO

I can see why she called her father. BJM, is BJM. She depended on her family quite a bit from what i understood. She was provided a home by CR1, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[rsd1200]

Canepa may have had a chance if she had left out all that evidence against Angie and jake and just concentrated on George alone. But she threw so many red herrings and dead ends in her case that she likely confused the jury. A confused jury is a jury that does not know what to believe. When confronted with not knowing what to believe the jury will err on the side of the defendant, because this is a DP trial. Who among us would send a man to his death if we are confused about whether he is guilty or not?

One of the biggest blunders Canepa made was building that "false bottom" a week after Jakes testimony and in the middle of the trial, then displaying it to the jury for the defense to rip apart. It made her seem desperate to prove her case. They had Jake's proffer, why didn't they build that a year ago and been ready to prove it out by piling 12 bales of hay on it with the agents under it and taking photos and film of that? The defense shredded that because there was no hay on it. People in that area seem to be farmers or at least know some about hauling hay. And those are the very people seated on that jury. How many of those jurors are now thinking there is no way that OSB board held up 480 or more lbs of hay without bowing down to the point it would have been impossible for a big guy like George to crawl under.

Another big mistake was that burned DVR. She brought it in, showed the jury a new one just like it, had the BCI agent to publish it to the jury like it was a very important key piece of evidence, then dropped it like a hot rock. The jury has to be confused about why she did not follow through and tell them how it connected to the murders. She misled the jury. What happens when you mislead the jury on one piece of evidence you introduce? It sows distrust of all the evidence. It makes them think you are misleading them on everything, right down to the defendants guilt.

From what I understand by being on here with people from the area, there is already a heavy distrust of LE and DA's and Judges and courts in general. The people on that jury are from that area. So if they came into this with a distrust of DA's her misleading them just makes that distrust worse.

Will they come back with a guilty verdict? I don't know. I know if I was on that jury I would have too much doubt in the states case to convict, especially in view of this being a DP case.

My own opinion is maybe a hung jury.

JMO

It's the prosecution way though. Throw everything at the wall like a ball of spaghetti and see what sticks. All she has to do is to get all jurors to agree on one string of spaghetti. Completely identical charges showed me right off that they had no idea who shot who, who was where, only that they had enough evidence to get a warrant for arrest, which does not require nearly as much evidence and is not the absolute standard of proof for a conviction.

 

[justtrish]

I understand. I question whether or not Angela was there that night. I question if and how, exactly is GW "different from the rest of them", and if he was so different, why did he stay so tightly intertwined with them. I question where GW was that night, if he wasn't with Jake & Billy, and he wasn't home with Angela. Wherever he was, I question why he didn't provide a solid alibi from the beginning. I question why GW's defense team didn't lead with his alibi as their very first witness. While I understand it is incumbent upon the state to prove GW's guilt and not on GW prove his innocence, the man is facing the death penalty. If I were fighting for MY life, I would use everything I could to prove my innocence.

The one thing I am 100% confident about is the testimony of Jake and Angela is the closest we will probably ever get to the truth of what happened that night, what led up to that night & how they managed to evade their arrests for so long. A few more details may come out of Billy's trial but this is really about the best we're going to get as far as answers. The way I see it, our options are to take it or leave it. I've decided I'll take it.

I just don't see it. She was always home with those kids. She would have ran off with those kids and left everyone behind I have no doubt. She was a director who didn't want to get her hands dirty. She said those houses were filthy. I think she liked pulling the strings and sitting back to watch her handy work unfold. The custody documents they signed ensured she got those kids. There was nothing said about if she died because she was safe at home that night.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Would you believe it if JW did say it in addition to AW? Or would you rather believe they somehow got their stories straight with each other in advance?

We have all figured out by now, the lies AW tells are in direct correlation to getting what she wants. So I’m curious, how does lying about GW benefit AW? What is she getting out of it?

ow does lying about GW benefit AW? What is she getting out of it?

30 years.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The proffers won't be available to the public for quite some time. The plea agreements haven't been finalized or signed yet, so they're not official. They won't be until after Billy's trial. If the proffers are made public, it won't be until after that.

If anyone out there is quoting or sharing information from these proffers, they're either lying or should be reported to the prosecutor's office.

If anyone out there is quoting or sharing information from these proffers, they're either lying or should be reported to the prosecutor's office.

The only ones I have seen share any information from any of Jakes numerous, tailored to fit, proffers are Canepa and Parker, the prosecution and defense attorney, in opening statements. You would expect the prosecution and defense to have at least one version of his many proffers.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I just chalked it up to there were things that needed to be removed before hand.

I just chalked it up to there were things that needed to be removed before hand.

But who among us would be clueless enough to remove anything, even a hair, from a murder scene. Every single thing in that crime scene, even fibers from clothes, is evidence. Many trials have turned on exactly that, forensic evidence, a single fiber from a perps clothes. Who would not know that? Anyone who ever watched TV would.

There is one rule in forensics that is iron clad. Every single killer either brings something into the crime scene or takes something out without noticing. Hair, fiber, dirt, dust, and any of the other assorted miniscule particles that can attach to a persons clothes, hair, body. That is why you never ever enter what you know is a crime scene. That is also why I was so surprised by the lack of forensics in this case.

The pictures of that living room floor tell the whole story. No way could anyone lose that much blood and still be alive. You would have to be blind not to see that.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have no doubt that if GW4 gets off and that is very likely or with little time left to serve that RS better get the he** outta dodge. GW4 will locked and loaded. I hope RS can do something about the judge saying it was a rant. Would judge feel the same if GW4 said that about him and his own family? I think it would be a different story.

I disagree. I think George has had enough of jails and courtrooms to last a lifetime. I think he is the one who will get the hell out of Dodge. I look for him to take off to AK as soon as he can get the money and live there. He can find work and maybe eventually hire an attorney for joint custody, or just make a deal with Tabbi.

But I think he will not cause any trouble for anyone, including Tabbi. Actually the way she looked and sounded on the witness stand I think if he asked her she would go with him where ever he decided to light. She very clearly still loves him. It was in her voice and her face.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I understand. I question whether or not Angela was there that night. I question if and how, exactly is GW "different from the rest of them", and if he was so different, why did he stay so tightly intertwined with them. I question where GW was that night, if he wasn't with Jake & Billy, and he wasn't home with Angela. Wherever he was, I question why he didn't provide a solid alibi from the beginning. I question why GW's defense team didn't lead with his alibi as their very first witness. While I understand it is incumbent upon the state to prove GW's guilt and not on GW prove his innocence, the man is facing the death penalty. If I were fighting for MY life, I would use everything I could to prove my innocence.

The one thing I am 100% confident about is the testimony of Jake and Angela is the closest we will probably ever get to the truth of what happened that night, what led up to that night & how they managed to evade their arrests for so long. A few more details may come out of Billy's trial but this is really about the best we're going to get as far as answers. The way I see it, our options are to take it or leave it. I've decided I'll take it.

Maybe some of that sleepy time medicine the kids talked about was put in his food and he did not wake up until morning. I don't remember who said it, I think Parker in his opening, that George woke up late the next morning.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

And just think, Dewine handpicked his star prosecutor for the biggest trial in oh history. Never trusted that man with his thin lips.

DeWine may have handpicked her but Yost was very quick to shove her off on Pike County.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

IMO, Jake knew what kind of shoes Leonard M. wore and he had mommy dearest buy those exact kind of shoes. That dude is a proven LIAR and hopefully the jurors keep that in mind along with AW's list of lies when they deliberate. My guess is guilty on some counts but not all.

Hopefully this trial will be wrapped up by weeks end with closing arguments beginning Friday (11/18) and the jury getting it the following Monday (11/21).

I agree. Jake knew what he was doing when he told his angel mommy to buy those exact shoes. He meant to frame Lenny and maybe the other M's. We discussed that early and endlessly on here how LE were focusing on the M's. Jake orchestrated that because he knew Lenny disliked him and always had.

I think maybe a hung jury. If so I do not think the state will retry George. I think they will move on to Billy.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

<modsnip: Address the post and not the poster>

In the first weeks of testimony, the BCI agents explained how they processed that crime scene. They said prints were taken from the shoes of anyone who entered that crime scene To compare with shoe prints. Nash and Parker have had all that evidence for about 3 yrs now. If they saw a discrepancy, they should have said so.

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>

I just said that I believe Jake tried to frame Lenny and the M's by having angel mommy buy shoes he knew Lenny wore. I think Jake did that because Lenny never liked him or trusted him and Jake knew it.

JMO

 

[Dudly]

I hate that your right
LMAO

I don't know where you live @Cool Cats but from being on here many years with various people stating they are from Pike County or surrounding areas, I have seen a very distinct aversion to LE, DA's, Judges and court in general. Maybe because the people in the area have been to court where the DA twists their words, or the judge rules against them. Or had a relative or friend that was done that way. Pike County is who the jury is made up of. That jury looks at George and they see someone who is from the area. Many of them may have the same lifestyle, hunting, fishing, riding ATV's, drinking, carousing around. Good ole boys. Then they look at the lack of evidence against him and think this is a DP case, we have to send one of our own to death. Can they do it on the lack of solid evidence that has been presented? I don't know. I know I could not. I would want more proof than the prosecution has presented.

I would like to be clear why you think the jury, well some of the jury, won't believe Angela and Jake's testimony?

Because they sat there and watched Jake laugh, smirk and smile all through his testimony. I think they would be thinking this is all a joke to him. He can't stop laughing because he is lying. He is smirking because he thinks we are stupid and will just believe anything he says.

Then you have evidence that proves both Jake and Angie lied on the stand. So much of the evidence does not match up to what little we know they testified to. That is only a small portion that was published in tweets from reporters. Just think about how much their entire testimony does not match the evidence.

that would be illegal.

It is not illegal.

Jake went to Canepa, not the other way around. She did not persuade or force him to come to her. She did not bribe him to come to her. He did that of his own free will. She tells him okay, tell us your story. When he gave the first story, which the defense has, he said George was not in the planning, did not participate, and did not cover up. Canepa says no deal, I know George was there, so if you want a plea deal then give me the real story where George was there. If you do that I will throw in a plea deal for your mother of 30 years. And take the DP off the table. That is not illegal for her to do that. After all if she doesn't buy his story then it is her right as prosecutor to say no deal.

So Jake tells a different story. This time George was there but did not shoot anyone. That is the proffer Canepa has.

Plus Canepa said during one of the motions that they got several proffers from Jake before they settled on one. She even said that the one they eventually settled on had many inconstancies with the evidence BCI had.

Go back and listen to the openings where Canepa says George was there but Parker says Jake will testify that George did not plan, participate or even know until later about Jake killing 8 people. Vast difference there and Jake ended up testifying to Canepa's proffer not the one the defense had. So read between the lines.

Why do you think there is two vastly different stories? One for the prosecution and one for the defense.

Then you have that pre trial hearing in Canepa's own words where she said Jake told several different stories and they had to keep making him go over his story until they got one that was halfway consistent with the evidence.

As far as Angie. Jake told her or Rita or granny or whoever if she wanted that 30 year deal, she had to sacrifice George and throw him under the bus. So Angie, being a fan of herself, saved her own azz and sacrificed her son, George.

JMO

You wrote“ When he gave the first story, which the defense has, he said George was not in the planning, did not participate, and did not cover up”
Have you seen this first story you mentioned? Was it published somewhere?
JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

You wrote“ When he gave the first story, which the defense has, he said George was not in the planning, did not participate, and did not cover up”
Have you seen this first story you mentioned? Was it published somewhere?
JMO

No but I did pay close attention to the opening statements.

Go back and listen to the openings where Canepa says George was there but Parker says Jake will testify that George did not plan, participate or even know until later about Jake killing 8 people. Vast difference there and Jake ended up testifying to Canepa's proffer not the one the defense had. So read between the lines.


Plus Canepa said during one of the motions that they got several proffers from Jake before they settled on one. She even said that the one they eventually settled on had many inconstancies with the evidence BCI had.

JMO

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

GW4 is still guilty according to the evidence and testimony. All the Wagners are liars. It’s the kind of family they come from. But when Jake testifies about George, especially on the shoes, his testimony matches the evidence.

Yes it does. Jake's testimony matches the evidence. I believe the wheels of justice has worked in such a way in this case that Jake decided it was best to give up the location of the murder weapons, the location of the murder truck and who all helped with this heinous crime.

 

[Lisams83]

Ive been trying to keep up with this trial but difficult with other life commitments
I understand most of what happened over the years and during the trial, but is the only evidence they have against George is that Jake and Angela said he was there and knew about everything.
Im not convinced he will be found guilty....if im questioning his guilt after knowing things the jury may not know then how do the jury send a man to prison for the rest of his life. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

The prosecution wanted all four. The only way to get all four is for AW and JW to testify against the other two. They tried to break G4 down by sending him pics of the gun in his brother's hand, talking to him at the Mt border (why did we not hear the MT border interview with G4?). They could not put him at any scene (the shoe prints did not place him there), nor with conspiracy or they'd not have had that little talk about "you're not like the others George" which was stated in opening, but suddenly, OBJECTION by Canepa b/c they weren't going to play GW4's border interview tape. The man's interview, who was actually on trial. The defense had obviously heard the interview. Prosecution; Give us all four JW, and Mommy Dearest, and you don't die. In fact Mommy Dearest, you'll get out in under 30 with time served! AW is out for AW at the end of the day. JW fears dying, yet has no remorse over murdering the Rs and HHG (or so it sure appears and neither does his angel mommy). That is why they would turn on their own.

 

[Curiosum]

I talked to hubby. If SW is in foster care and not with relatives I could bring her here. Adopt her which would make her a member of my tribe. Lords knows I have more than enough room, several rooms in fact she can have for her own. Immerse her in my culture, but yet make sure she knows her own. Make sure she is protected and gets therapy to deal with what she has been through, make sure she knows her family by either bringing them here or sending her there with someone in my family for visits. I can afford to send her to college, any college she wants to go to for however many years she wants to go and make sure she has a great foundation in life. I know I am in bad health but hubby is not and would have a lot of help within our family to care for her. She would be safe and secure here and I could put her in classes to learn our language and traditions. Classes to learn the Appalachian traditions also. I know i am not maternal, and have stated i am finished with raising kids, but the reason I don't keep my GKs are their parents are more than capable of caring for them. They don't need my help or input. Most of all she would have love, not just from me and hubby and my immediate family but my extended family and my tribe. It doesn't matter if she has any of our blood, if adopted she would be accepted, loved, taught, helped and protected like any other child in my tribe.

Thoughts anyone? Should I talk with my son and GKs?

JMO

As well intentioned as I am sure this is, children do best when they grow up with racial, ethnic, and genetic mirrors. If you have the financial resources then offer them to the surviving family for help in raising her.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Ive been trying to keep up with this trial but difficult with other life commitments
I understand most of what happened over the years and during the trial, but is the only evidence they have against George is that Jake and Angela said he was there and knew about everything.
Im not convinced he will be found guilty....if im questioning his guilt after knowing things the jury may not know then how do the jury send a man to prison for the rest of his life. JMO

A good guage as to whether there is enough evidence against george will be the hearing on November 14th. If the Judge feels there is enough evidence against George then the trial will continue. We now know that there was in fact a conspiracy to murder 8 people. It was not done by one person alone. Jake and Angela have both admitted guilt for their part in this conspiracy to murder 8 people. I believe there is enough evidience that shows George was part of the conspiracy. Actions taken before the murders, the number and types of murder weapons used in the crime, the vehicles used, A gun that he owned matched the make, model, caliber and generation of a gun used at the murders if not the one in the cement bucket then it has never been recovered, the wiretaps evidence to me shows that he was part of the conspiracy to cover up the crime afterwards. I.E. it is a family emergency that both brothers need to drive home for a family meeting. Not just Jake has to drive home. But both brothers have to drive home. If George was not a part of the conspiracy why did he have to drive home with Jake. The supervisor at R&L wanted to switch out Jake with another driver so george could continue on with the load to dallas(?). But Jake specifically said the emergency involved both brothers. Why. Because George is part of the conspiracy.

 

[Antimony]

If the plan was to have two people assault Chris Sr's house (one to get Chris to the door and maybe outside and the other to shoot him with the rifle), The there had to be someone to watch out for Frankie. If Frankie had heard the shots he would have come out armed and ready. They had to be ready for that. That is what the third person was for. Jake and Billy could handle Chris Sr., But someone had to watch their 6 o'clock. If George was not there, Then it would have to have been Angela. The person doing the watching is as much a part of the crime as the shooters.

 

[rsd1200]

I talked to hubby. If SW is in foster care and not with relatives I could bring her here. Adopt her which would make her a member of my tribe. Lords knows I have more than enough room, several rooms in fact she can have for her own. Immerse her in my culture, but yet make sure she knows her own. Make sure she is protected and gets therapy to deal with what she has been through, make sure she knows her family by either bringing them here or sending her there with someone in my family for visits. I can afford to send her to college, any college she wants to go to for however many years she wants to go and make sure she has a great foundation in life. I know I am in bad health but hubby is not and would have a lot of help within our family to care for her. She would be safe and secure here and I could put her in classes to learn our language and traditions. Classes to learn the Appalachian traditions also. I know i am not maternal, and have stated i am finished with raising kids, but the reason I don't keep my GKs are their parents are more than capable of caring for them. They don't need my help or input. Most of all she would have love, not just from me and hubby and my immediate family but my extended family and my tribe. It doesn't matter if she has any of our blood, if adopted she would be accepted, loved, taught, helped and protected like any other child in my tribe.

Thoughts anyone? Should I talk with my son and GKs?

JMO

No. She still has family in the region, is nine years old now and a change like that could be devastating emotionally.