OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[Piffcat]

g4 thinks he can get off because he is only tangentially involved in the custody and had no public issues with any of the rhodens. even tho he may have been the wagner closest to the younger victims. none of them that we know of had EVER done ANYTHING to deserve the death that g4 actively insured. there is so much non-confirmation bias in this trial and society in general. everything needs to be parsed out to the sylabyl and it benefits only the murderer. as much as i hate g4 lawyers they have used the media and pre trial as a very effective,but immoral, weapon against the murder victims.just take a look at all the pre trial media headlines that sate "george didnt shoot anyone" he got that single line out there so frequently ac actually used it in her opening(bad miscalculation). falling right into the trap and trying to disprove a negative statement and down the rabbit hole you go. acting like that in front of the jury communicates that it DOES matter if g4 shot someone or not, when according to the statute its irrelevant. allowing this minute choeragraphy of where each wagner was staying while each victim was murdered is the result. under the conspiracy law of aggravated murder during a criminal enterprise all 3 conspiracy members at the scenes are legally responsible for every single crime. jury nullification is the only path that could free g4 at this point. the wagner conspiracy murder team could be a textbook example of what a conspiracy looks like according to ohio law

 

[Cool Cats]

Ms Eversledge testified to the text messages on about the 5th day I think.

Thanks!

 

[Cool Cats]

So are we thinking that Chris N is colorblind? Or that he does not know anything about guns? Or that he would not know a green gun if he saw it? Just trying to clear up where you are going with this post. TIA

Just to add: The gun was advertised for sale on FB, where Chris saw it, and where it is very easy for BCI to go back and see the picture of the green Glock and confirm it was indeed green.

That is why it was never said in any testimony that the murder Glock belonged to George. Because BCI has already checked out the FB page where the original owner placed it for sale and most likely talked to that orginal owner about what color the gun was.

JMO

Wow. Did anyone listen to Randa H's testimony besides me? Parker specifically asked Randa "What color was the Glock that George bought when you and Chris went with him to buy it? Her answer :GREEN

The Glock found in the buckets and test fired to match shells from peterson rd :BLACK

What is so hard to understand that it was two different guns? ONE GREEN IN COLOR AND THE OTHER BLACK IN COLOR.

Randa H's testimony is out there for anyone who would like to listen to it again.

JMO

Hi Raisinisback,

After this post I will not post anything more about this. It seems I am upsetting you and that is not my intention.

It appears that when I went back and listened to Chris Newcombe's testimony again Chris Newcombe Alludes to the fact he might have helped George buy a second glock 40 caliber. Although I recommend listening to the whole thing, about 21 minutes into this video is that testimony:

I think this might be because he was now under oath whereas when he was talking to agent Schiderer he was not under oath and might have been trying to 'protect' the Wagners as at the time he might have honestly thought they were innocent.

Take care.

Mr. Glock man probably owned a whole collection of Glocks, maybe in every color of the rainbow for all we know. The Wagner's had so many guns that BCI found a few guns carelessly thrown away in their woods.

And as CN's testimony points out, he may have helped George buy more than one Glock.

George could have owned a black Glock also. So the black Glock found in the cement with shell casings from it at the crime scenes and at Peterson Rd could have belonged to George.

Did the prosecution prove this? No. Is it possible? Yes.

Circumstantial evidence adds up. The jury may or may not see this as circumstantial evidence against George, who they at least know, owned Glocks, fired Glocks, and had a reputation as being a Glock man.

Billy was waiving around a Glock at a passing motorist back when George was just a kid. No big guess on who introduced George to the world of Glocks.

It is significant, to me anyway, that the casings that were found at the crime scenes, matching Peterson Rd casings, did not only come from just one gun associated with Jake - the Colt 22. But also came from a gun associated with George.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

They are a family of murdering morons who didn’t like books or libraries. It’s also possible they didn’t read very well. A criminal family that never even bothered to send their children to school. Three generations Of people who scorned public school education in favor of learning how to rob others for a living.

The fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree. I wonder if, after these confessions, the state will further investigate Fred Wagner and her daughter. Both seemed very aware that Billy and his family killed the Rhodens and Hanna Gilley.

They should also pursue charges against Fredericka Wagner for stealing narcotics from her nursing home business a distributing them to others. Drug dealing.

Did you happen to try to decipher the texts that were sorted between them? Phonetics were the way forward.

 

[Betty P]

Mr. Glock man probably owned a whole collection of Glocks, maybe in every color of the rainbow for all we know. The Wagner's had so many guns that BCI found a few guns carelessly thrown away in their woods.

And as CN's testimony points out, he may have helped George buy more than one Glock.

George could have owned a black Glock also. So the black Glock found in the cement with shell casings from it at the crime scenes and at Peterson Rd could have belonged to George.

Did the prosecution prove this? No. Is it possible? Yes.

Circumstantial evidence adds up. The jury may or may not see this as circumstantial evidence against George, who they at least know, owned Glocks, fired Glocks, and had a reputation as being a Glock man.

Billy was waiving around a Glock at a passing motorist back when George was just a kid. No big guess on who introduced George to the world of Glocks.

It is significant, to me anyway, that the casings that were found at the crime scenes, matching Peterson Rd casings, did not only come from just one gun associated with Jake - the Colt 22. But also came from a gun associated with George.

Prosecution not only has solid evidence and circumstantial evidence, they also have confessions from 2 of the 4 co-conspirators. That's game, set, match.

 

[rsd1200]

Mr. Glock man probably owned a whole collection of Glocks, maybe in every color of the rainbow for all we know. The Wagner's had so many guns that BCI found a few guns carelessly thrown away in their woods.

And as CN's testimony points out, he may have helped George buy more than one Glock.

George could have owned a black Glock also. So the black Glock found in the cement with shell casings from it at the crime scenes and at Peterson Rd could have belonged to George.

Did the prosecution prove this? No. Is it possible? Yes.

Circumstantial evidence adds up. The jury may or may not see this as circumstantial evidence against George, who they at least know, owned Glocks, fired Glocks, and had a reputation as being a Glock man.

Billy was waiving around a Glock at a passing motorist back when George was just a kid. No big guess on who introduced George to the world of Glocks.

It is significant, to me anyway, that the casings that were found at the crime scenes, matching Peterson Rd casings, did not only come from just one gun associated with Jake - the Colt 22. But also came from a gun associated with George.

or G3, who was also a Glock man...

 

[rsd1200]

I've said before, I think G4 had some part in this. However, I just don't see that the prosecution proved their case re; G4. No Momma, No JW, they'd be sunk, sunk, sunk. The jury will very likely find him guilty though.

 

[Skully67]

I don't take away from the statements above that a person can actually participate in covering up a family member's crime and not be held accountable. I think the statements above mean; if a family member knows something about a family member's crime, they don't have to disclose what they know to the authorities. Those are 2 very different things.

I'm thinking if GW4 holds to his defense that he wasn't even there, then he can say you can't find me guilty of anything because I didn't find out what my family did until after the fact and I'm not obligated to report that.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Absolutely. This is a massive case and she has done well. There is a lot of evidence. There is 8 weeks of evidence. I heard her a few days ago say she's getting 2-3 hours of sleep. She does the trial all day and likely plans for the next day for several hours after that and then is up early and back in the courthouse to get the defense what they need for that day. For the last 2+ months. She was sick going into this trial. It is taking it's toll.

I was also not impressed with the defense not even preparing their own witness and they have far less witnesses to even prepare so what is their excuse?

As much as I dislike their demeanor, if the defense team is being paid by the state, they probably have even less clerical-type support than the prosecutors. This isn't an episode of Bull where both side have enough support for the largest trial in Ohio history.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Did she need the best lawyer because she instigated the murder plan? Or because the W4’s plan — if they got arrested— was to ensure AW would be free to take care of B and S??

Maybe because she would need to be found not guilty in order to keep the kids. Aside from the "watching the kids" aspect of mass murder planning, there should have been some thought as to keeping someone on the outside so as not to lose the children this murder was planned to control. They weren't smart enough to figure out that Angela's cyber stalking and hacking of Hanna would be discovered or that she was caught buying the shoes on video and through a receipt. A 'good lawyer" might have been able to argue that the animosity of Tabitha and Beth was their fault (and so on).

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Thanks for the reminder about the appeals. I forgot that the plea deals spare the families of Angela and Jake going through an appeals process. I believe you are correct, they can't appeal. Now if George is found guilty he can definitely appeal but I don't think the State would pay for it and he would have to get Fred to pay or file appeals himself, can you even get free legal aid in prison for appeals?

Maybe his current lawyers would appeal pro bono. Who knows? But I do see him doing appeals and his attorneys saying George will appeal.

The state 100% did the right thing to get plea deals. It also costs taxpayers a lot of money to keep people on death row as death penalty appeals go forward. The state did the right thing--the investigators found the murderers and put them away for LWOP (Jake) and de facto life for Angela. And since GW and Billy didn't take a deal, at least they got testimony that should take them off the street too.

So 4 habitual criminals (theft, arson, murder) go off the street. The families are spared the roller coaster of death penalty reshashing of the crimes (which is far more inevitable and public than the usual appeals for wrongful conviction).

One thing to read to see how families are re-traumatized by death penalty appeals, read Jeanine Cummins's account in A Rip in Heaven of the trials and trials by publicity for the men who raped and killed her cousins on the Chain of Rocks bridge. This book also shows how testifying over and over traumatizes witnesses who were already traumatized by the killers. The state and the victims' families (not Jake and Angela) got the great deal. Once the door shuts on Jake and Angela, they will only be remembered as murderers.

 

[Cool Cats]

or G3, who was also a Glock man...

Yup. I was thinking that too.

[/QUOTE]

Prosecution not only has solid evidence and circumstantial evidence, they also have confessions from 2 of the 4 co-conspirators. That's game, set, match.

If you have the chance sometime I would be interested to hear your take on what you see as being the solid evidence against George. I am not real clear on the difference between these 2 types of evidence in this case - I mean solid vs circumstantial. Co-conspirator testimony is clear and the circumstantial evidence keeps adding up.

They have to prove it that you're guilty. The grand jury will indict anyone or anything. There are innocent people sitting on death row. The prosecutors despise it when they are proven innocent too and will not give in that they got it wrong.

But I have to agree with Betty, if George and Billy were innocent they wouldn't chance a trial that might put them away for life, they would have insisted to the prosecution they were innocent and made plea deals to work with them. Most defendants take pleas. Unfortunately, many innocent people take guilty pleas to avoid all the extra charges, trial expenses, possibility of guilty verdicts with prison sentences etc....

 

[Rush4087]

That's what gets me. He can plea, if the prosecution will still negotiate one, at any time and stop this. His legal team has likely put a plea option on the table but he's not taking it obviously. If you were innocent, would you keep going, or would you plea out to murdering eight people?

Are you suggesting that (my quotation marks): “He obviously must be guilty because otherwise (if he were innocent) he would accept a plea deal for LWOP”?

Jmo

 

[Chingaling]

Jmo I just finished listening to defense expert witness and Nash asked about no right shoe print. The witness said they could have been very clean I guess as to why no right print. Combine that with wiretaps, George doesn’t come across as someone Jake could keep calm and watch what he is doing. Jake now could be calm and watch what he was doing. This may sound crazy but the shoes were bought specifically to throw le off. The shoes are 1/2 size diff. Who is to say Jake didn’t wear left shoe of each size? Or that Jake purposely put those prints there. I think purposely may be likely since it is not on porch. Jmo there is a big problem with those prints. They are not telling the true story and those prints are not telling Me that that shoe was on George’s foot. Jmo

My question is" How could BJM not see the bullet holes and blood splatter on the door and front of trailer? She had to have known before she ever opened that door that something bad had happened.

 

[arielilane]

As a reminder please don't justify the killing of these victims and remember that there were babies at the crime scenes too. The victims have families that are seeking justice. May justice be served!!!

Timeline: A full history of the Pike County murders

The autopsy showed all eight victims were shot with the gun barrel touching their skin or just centimeters away.

The number of gunshot wounds per victims, according to the reports:

• Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (age 40): Nine (face, torso, extremities).
• Dana Rhoden (age 37): Five (head).
• Hannah Gilley (age 20): Five (head)
• Christopher Rhoden, Jr. (age 16): Four (head).
• Clarence “Frankie” Rhoden (age 20): Three (head). Two were “contact wounds” as indicated by soot from the gun on his skull.
• Gary Rhoden (age 37): Three “contact” wounds (head).
• Hanna Rhoden (19): Two (head).
• Kenneth Rhoden (age 44): One (right eye).

 

[arielilane]

"While speaking with Angela and Jake, I casually observed numerous fired cartridge casings lying about the driveway all over the place," said Scheiderer.

He said there were hundreds, possibly thousands of shell casings scattered throughout the yard and driveway.

Although Scheiderer was able to speak with Angela and Jake that day, he said George quietly went inside the home shortly after he arrived. Phone records later obtained from the Wagner family showed that around that time, George sent his father a text message.

"Don't come down till I text you got company," read the text.

Scheiderer said that same message was sent to two phones, both belonging to Billy Wagner.


Pike County murder trial: BCI agents testified to evidence collected on Wagners

 

[arielilane]

She also recounted a moment when, around one month after the Rhoden family were found murdered, Staley reached out to George and the pair, along with her husband, went fishing.

"He wasn't the same George that I knew," she said.

The George Wagner IV she grew up with had been bubbly, eager to laugh and eager to make others laugh, but the George who went fishing that day just seemed sad, hurt, lost and dead inside, she said. At some point during the outing, she mentioned the murders — specifically Frankie — and that she couldn't believe what had happened.

"I was pretty much told to shut the eff up," she said.

Pike County murder trial: Jury hears from George Wagner IV's ex-wife as fourth week of testimony begins

Doesn't prove guilt but is an interesting factor.

 

[arielilane]

After lunch, Matthew White, a BCI ballistics and firearms lab technician, was re-called to the stand. He testified earlier in the trial that all of the shell casings recovered from the four different crime scenes were fired from the same three guns: .40 caliber casings were likely fired from a Glock pistol, .22 caliber casings recovered were likely fired from a Walther Colt 1911 pistol and .30 caliber rounds found were likely fired from an SKS rifle.

Prosecutor Andrew Wilson showed Matthew the list found in the notes on Jake Wagner's cell phone and asked if any of the guns on that list could have fired the rounds that killed the eight members of the Rhoden family. Two of the guns on the list would have been able to fire those kinds of ammunition, he said — an SKS 7.62x39 and a Colt 1911 .22 pistol. Prosecution asked whose name those guns appeared under, but defense attorneys objected and the question was withdrawn.

Pike County murder trial: Evidence gathered during search warrant of Wagner property presented

More evidence collected against the Wagner family is expected to be presented to the jury Thursday as the trial of George Wagner IV continues.

www.wcpo.com

Wilson proceeded to identify evidence bags containing more than 80 shell casings collected from the Wagner yard, some of which don't match calibers used in murders; John Parker, George's defense attorney, objected to the presentation of many of the casings, but was overruled. Matthew confirmed he'd inspected each one.

Questioning focused on the .22 caliber casings, suspected to be fired from a Walther Colt 1911 pistol. Matthew previously testified that the firing pin impression on cartridges fired from that firearm was unique.

The firing pin impression found on the .22 caliber casings collected from the Wagner property had similar characteristics: The impression on the rim-fired cartridge started rectangular, but became a wedge shape at the end, while most rim-fired firing pin impressions are fully rectangular or circular, said White. Additionally, the pin impression did not extend past the rim of the cartridge — another unusual detail, Matthew said.

He made microscopic comparison of the shell casings collected from the Peterson Road property and the casings found in the two homes where Frankie, Hannah Hazel, Dana, Chris Jr. and Hanna May were murdered and ultimately formed the opinion that the shell casings were all fired from the same weapon.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Hey Sleuthers
What about on day 40 when Jake is talking to Angela about Beth and George is in the background say Ryan I want to Kill You!

 

[Chelly]

Hey Sleuthers
What about on day 40 when Jake is talking to Angela about Beth and George is in the background say Ryan I want to Kill You!

Yes. That statement stood out among a lot of inaudible rants.