OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #83

[Pru2U]

My question is" How could BJM not see the bullet holes and blood splatter on the door and front of trailer? She had to have known before she ever opened that door that something bad had happened.

This is just my personal opinion but I think there are a variety of reasons: 1) It was overcast early morning and the door was under roof. 2) She wasn’t expecting or looking for foul play and 3) I think it’s very possible her eyes took in the doorframe but her brain did not. Her mind was already racing, turning over questions as to why CR’s truck was still there, why the dogs were outside, why the door was locked, why Chris wasn’t answering…there’s only so much the brain can take in at one time - and that “how much” factor is totally dependent on the individual.

I’m not talking about you, Chingaling, so this is not directed at you but this is one thing I’m most passionate about; it always frustrated me how early on people pointed at this as a reason to suspect BJM (Leonard & James). Her not knowing CR’s address (for 911 call), her knowing where the key was…people were so quick to point fingers at her and it broke my heart for her. None of us know the fascinating capabilities of our own brain much less a perfect stranger’s. None of us know how we would react in that kind of situation until we are faced with it, so questioning or judging someone else’s response to a traumatic event is fruitless.

I don’t know if it was AW who anonymously planted this seed, but it took off quicker than a prom dress. My heart still hurts for all the Manley family endured at the hands of the W-4.

Rant over.

 

[Betty P]

"I love ya mom.."

Alternative to "bless your little heart"?


Not the recordings, it was while Priest was on the stand, the expert for the defense, before they began with recordings for today. If it was there, I missed it, but some posters here and some reporter's tweets said they did talk about the tattoos. I think it must've been right before Wilson asked about "the taking of souvenirs" by murderers.

Thanks, I'll go listen to his testimony. It doesn't sound as if he made much of an impression.

 

[sunshineray]

"I love ya mom.."

Alternative to "bless your little heart"?


Not the recordings, it was while Priest was on the stand, the expert for the defense, before they began with recordings for today. If it was there, I missed it, but some posters here and some reporter's tweets said they did talk about the tattoos. I think it must've been right before Wilson asked about "the taking of souvenirs" by murderers.

Look around, before/after, that picture of the wolf was on screen. That's what I recalled tattoos being spoken about...but I don't believe it was at length, IIRC

 

[Chelly]

Look around, before/after, that picture of the wolf was on screen. That's what I recalled tattoos being spoken about...but I don't believe it was at length, IIRC

I think the eight ball tat was displayed just after the wolf pic.

 

[Betty P]

After lunch, Matthew White, a BCI ballistics and firearms lab technician, was re-called to the stand. He testified earlier in the trial that all of the shell casings recovered from the four different crime scenes were fired from the same three guns: .40 caliber casings were likely fired from a Glock pistol, .22 caliber casings recovered were likely fired from a Walther Colt 1911 pistol and .30 caliber rounds found were likely fired from an SKS rifle.

Prosecutor Andrew Wilson showed Matthew the list found in the notes on Jake Wagner's cell phone and asked if any of the guns on that list could have fired the rounds that killed the eight members of the Rhoden family. Two of the guns on the list would have been able to fire those kinds of ammunition, he said — an SKS 7.62x39 and a Colt 1911 .22 pistol. Prosecution asked whose name those guns appeared under, but defense attorneys objected and the question was withdrawn.

View attachment 379347View attachment 379348

Pike County murder trial: Evidence gathered during search warrant of Wagner property presented

More evidence collected against the Wagner family is expected to be presented to the jury Thursday as the trial of George Wagner IV continues.

www.wcpo.com

Wilson proceeded to identify evidence bags containing more than 80 shell casings collected from the Wagner yard, some of which don't match calibers used in murders; John Parker, George's defense attorney, objected to the presentation of many of the casings, but was overruled. Matthew confirmed he'd inspected each one.

Questioning focused on the .22 caliber casings, suspected to be fired from a Walther Colt 1911 pistol. Matthew previously testified that the firing pin impression on cartridges fired from that firearm was unique.

The firing pin impression found on the .22 caliber casings collected from the Wagner property had similar characteristics: The impression on the rim-fired cartridge started rectangular, but became a wedge shape at the end, while most rim-fired firing pin impressions are fully rectangular or circular, said White. Additionally, the pin impression did not extend past the rim of the cartridge — another unusual detail, Matthew said.

He made microscopic comparison of the shell casings collected from the Peterson Road property and the casings found in the two homes where Frankie, Hannah Hazel, Dana, Chris Jr. and Hanna May were murdered and ultimately formed the opinion that the shell casings were all fired from the same weapon.

Thanks for posting this graphic and helping clear up the discussion from yesterday.

State ballistic evidence matches focus on the SKS and the 1911 .22 pistol. The firing pin evidence from Peterson Rd farm matched the .22 pistol.

Those are the firearms used in the murders that were found on the family list. The Glock was also used and parts later found in the cement filled buckets at FWF, but it wasn't on the list. It still belonged to someone in the Wagner family and was used in the murders.

CN testimony about helping George buy a Glock showed evidence George liked Glocks and bought lots of guns (as did the other Wagners) but it was not intended by the prosecution to state the Glock George bought with CN was the same one used in the murders. Even I understood that and I'm not a firearms expert at all.

 

[Chelly]

Has it been determined if defense will finish its case next week?
Was it mentioned yet if closing arguments might take place end of next week?
TIA.

 

[Dudly]

Since the shoes were bought to cast suspicion at the Manleys, could it be the shoe prints were done purposely? There would need to be shoe prints or the whole idea of wearing different shoes similar to LM’s shoes would not be necessary…

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

"While speaking with Angela and Jake, I casually observed numerous fired cartridge casings lying about the driveway all over the place," said Scheiderer.

He said there were hundreds, possibly thousands of shell casings scattered throughout the yard and driveway.

Although Scheiderer was able to speak with Angela and Jake that day, he said George quietly went inside the home shortly after he arrived. Phone records later obtained from the Wagner family showed that around that time, George sent his father a text message.

"Don't come down till I text you got company," read the text.

Scheiderer said that same message was sent to two phones, both belonging to Billy Wagner.


Pike County murder trial: BCI agents testified to evidence collected on Wagners

To me, that does tend to indicate George was part of a conspiracy.

 

[Niner]

Has it been determined if defense will finish its case next week?
Was it mentioned yet if closing arguments might take place end of next week?
TIA.

I know they have about 10 witnesses - here's the list from my notes:

Some of defense witnesses: Samantha Staley, earlier testified that her father worked for Wagner IV’s grandmother, Fredericka Wagner. Jeff Tackett, earlier testified about the criminal lifestyle of Wagner IV’s father. Bernard Brown allowed the Wagners to store trucks & trailers filled with their possessions at his Peebles car business from mid-2017 to mid-2018, the year the family spent in Alaska. Skid Montgomery & Vance Walls have both been convicted on marijuana charges. Also subpoenaed were Shawn Walls, with the same address as Vance Walls & Nathan Walls. The defense also sent subpoenas to West Chester police Capt. Seth Hagaman, who questioned Wagner IV in the Rhoden case in 2017 when employed by the Bureau of Criminal Investigation & Clinton Canter, a former corrections deputy in the Ross County Jail in Chillicothe where Wagner IV was held from his arrest in November 2018 until late 2021 or early 2022.

 

[Chelly]

I know they have about 10 witnesses - here's the list from my notes:

Some of defense witnesses: Samantha Staley, earlier testified that her father worked for Wagner IV’s grandmother, Fredericka Wagner. Jeff Tackett, earlier testified about the criminal lifestyle of Wagner IV’s father. Bernard Brown allowed the Wagners to store trucks & trailers filled with their possessions at his Peebles car business from mid-2017 to mid-2018, the year the family spent in Alaska. Skid Montgomery & Vance Walls have both been convicted on marijuana charges. Also subpoenaed were Shawn Walls, with the same address as Vance Walls & Nathan Walls. The defense also sent subpoenas to West Chester police Capt. Seth Hagaman, who questioned Wagner IV in the Rhoden case in 2017 when employed by the Bureau of Criminal Investigation & Clinton Canter, a former corrections deputy in the Ross County Jail in Chillicothe where Wagner IV was held from his arrest in November 2018 until late 2021 or early 2022.

@Niner Thank you. My hopes of trial ending by U.S. Thanksgiving holiday are dimming.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

g4 thinks he can get off because he is only tangentially involved in the custody and had no public issues with any of the rhodens. even tho he may have been the wagner closest to the younger victims. none of them that we know of had EVER done ANYTHING to deserve the death that g4 actively insured. there is so much non-confirmation bias in this trial and society in general. everything needs to be parsed out to the sylabyl and it benefits only the murderer. as much as i hate g4 lawyers they have used the media and pre trial as a very effective,but immoral, weapon against the murder victims.just take a look at all the pre trial media headlines that sate "george didnt shoot anyone" he got that single line out there so frequently ac actually used it in her opening(bad miscalculation). falling right into the trap and trying to disprove a negative statement and down the rabbit hole you go. acting like that in front of the jury communicates that it DOES matter if g4 shot someone or not, when according to the statute its irrelevant. allowing this minute choeragraphy of where each wagner was staying while each victim was murdered is the result. under the conspiracy law of aggravated murder during a criminal enterprise all 3 conspiracy members at the scenes are legally responsible for every single crime. jury nullification is the only path that could free g4 at this point. the wagner conspiracy murder team could be a textbook example of what a conspiracy looks like according to ohio law

How about the fact that there is no evidence against George?

Opinions against George does not count in a court of law.

Canepa backed up that "George shot nobody" statement, not because of the defense, but because that is what her star witness said. For her to do otherwise is to call her star witness a liar and negate his testimony in front of the jury.

Just sayin"

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I know they have about 10 witnesses - here's the list from my notes:

Some of defense witnesses: Samantha Staley, earlier testified that her father worked for Wagner IV’s grandmother, Fredericka Wagner. Jeff Tackett, earlier testified about the criminal lifestyle of Wagner IV’s father. Bernard Brown allowed the Wagners to store trucks & trailers filled with their possessions at his Peebles car business from mid-2017 to mid-2018, the year the family spent in Alaska. Skid Montgomery & Vance Walls have both been convicted on marijuana charges. Also subpoenaed were Shawn Walls, with the same address as Vance Walls & Nathan Walls. The defense also sent subpoenas to West Chester police Capt. Seth Hagaman, who questioned Wagner IV in the Rhoden case in 2017 when employed by the Bureau of Criminal Investigation & Clinton Canter, a former corrections deputy in the Ross County Jail in Chillicothe where Wagner IV was held from his arrest in November 2018 until late 2021 or early 2022.

The defense is calling Skid Montgomery & Vance Walls!? Whatever for?

 

[justtrish]

@Niner Thank you. My hopes of trial ending by U.S. Thanksgiving holiday are dimming.

I'm still hopeful. They have had 7 witnesses so far and 6 of them were in one day. I think it's possible they call some Tuesday and Wednesday, maybe Thursday also and then closing on Friday or even Monday and then jury instruction. Maybe we get a verdict by Thanksgiving.

 

[Myland]

Since the shoes were bought to cast suspicion at the Manleys, could it be the shoe prints were done purposely? There would need to be shoe prints or the whole idea of wearing different shoes similar to LM’s shoes would not be necessary…

Jmo I believe there is definitely something up with those prints. It just doesn’t make sense in cr. I am thinking the prints didn’t end up there by accident or carelessness. Jmo

 

[ColMustard]

Since the shoes were bought to cast suspicion at the Manleys, could it be the shoe prints were done purposely? There would need to be shoe prints or the whole idea of wearing different shoes similar to LM’s shoes would not be necessary…

Same question I asked the other day.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Mr. Glock man probably owned a whole collection of Glocks, maybe in every color of the rainbow for all we know. The Wagner's had so many guns that BCI found a few guns carelessly thrown away in their woods.

And as CN's testimony points out, he may have helped George buy more than one Glock.

George could have owned a black Glock also. So the black Glock found in the cement with shell casings from it at the crime scenes and at Peterson Rd could have belonged to George.

Did the prosecution prove this? No. Is it possible? Yes.

Circumstantial evidence adds up. The jury may or may not see this as circumstantial evidence against George, who they at least know, owned Glocks, fired Glocks, and had a reputation as being a Glock man.

Billy was waiving around a Glock at a passing motorist back when George was just a kid. No big guess on who introduced George to the world of Glocks.

It is significant, to me anyway, that the casings that were found at the crime scenes, matching Peterson Rd casings, did not only come from just one gun associated with Jake - the Colt 22. But also came from a gun associated with George.

Did the prosecution prove this? No. Is it possible? Yes.

The minute you say could have, or possibly, or might in your testimony in court it becomes speculation. Which is a short way of saying it is your own opinion, or it is a rumor. That is why they have defense attorneys to object to hearsay and speculation.

The prosecution must have solid evidence to prove guilt to the jury. They cannot tell the jury "Well it is possible this man committed this crime." It is possible millions of people could have committed a crime. Does that mean they did? NO.

Talk is cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey. Canepa did not manage to buy us one shot of cheap rotgut whiskey in a dive bar in the rundown part of town.

JMO

 

[Myland]

Jmo I think the state put too much time into those shoes. To the point where a person is questioning now why just those two left prints in cr. When I start thinking about them being there leads me to wonder more why they are there instead of who’s they are. Jmo

 

[Chelly]

Did the prosecution prove this? No. Is it possible? Yes.

The minute you say could have, or possibly, or might in your testimony in court it becomes speculation. Which is a short way of saying it is your own opinion, or it is a rumor. That is why they have defense attorneys to object to hearsay and speculation.

The prosecution must have solid evidence to prove guilt to the jury. They cannot tell the jury "Well it is possible this man committed this crime." It is possible millions of people could have committed a crime. Does that mean they did? NO.

Talk is cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey. Canepa did not manage to buy us one shot of cheap rotgut whiskey in a dive bar in the rundown part of town.

JMO

Agree. I don't think jury has enough evidence to, unanimously, beyond reasonable doubt, convict.
ETA: Having said that, I believe GW4 is guilty. However, I think the jury will have reasonable doubt.

 

[sunshineray]

How about the fact that there is no evidence against George?

Opinions against George does not count in a court of law.

Canepa backed up that "George shot nobody" statement, not because of the defense, but because that is what her star witness said. For her to do otherwise is to call her star witness a liar and negate his testimony in front of the jury.

Just sayin"

JMO

I'm curious, by the evidence presented so far...
Do you believe that GWIV was home that night?
Do you believe JW and AW outright lied about everything they testified to? Do you also believe GWIV had absolutely nothing to do with any preparation or subsequent cover-up of the crimes?

 

[sunshineray]

Jmo I believe there is definitely something up with those prints. It just doesn’t make sense in cr. I am thinking the prints didn’t end up there by accident or carelessness. Jmo

Are you saying you think LE planted them there?