Cause I LOVE your opposing theories about the case. Even tho I don't agree. Haha
From what I have seen/heard from the defense... they sure could use you.
OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #84
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From what I have seen/heard from the defense... they sure could use you.
George is well spoken but has a child’s mentality. Sneaking away to avoid work. Too much work taking care of dogs. A real pain. Airing childish grievances. How old is he ?
So much hunting, yet didn’t shoot at CRsr. Couldn’t shoot. Unbelievable.
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So much hunting, yet didn’t shoot at CRsr. Couldn’t shoot. Unbelievable.
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Sounds like the four kennel fires might've been unplanned by the Ws. Disgruntled customer?
No. I think AW put newspapers under the fuse box ( or something similar) and then all Wagners went to Columbus. So surprised when they came home find all 4 kennels burned to
the ground.
15 min break
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There's an income stream, "a load of copper, a load of zinc, and a load of aluminum". Stolen and taken to Mexico.
I'm wondering how much they were "schooled" and really what they learned. AW did most of their work I would bet.
https://twitter.com/CFranciscoWCPO
Pike County massacre trial continues this morning at nine with defense calling witnesses at 9:00. The attorneys began at 8:00 this morning because they had to go through exhibit entries and objections with the judge.
The exhibit entry process will take days. Jurors aren't present for that. So, attorneys have decided to work overtime while still allowing the defense to call witnesses out of turn so jurors can get work done.
Usually, the state finishes calling witnesses, enters exhibits as evidence and then officially rests their case. Then, the defense starts presenting its witnesses and its case. However, since there are more than 1,000 exhibits to present, the defense proceeds out of turn.
The defense just said they're calling George Washington Wagner to the stand. The jury is going up. Standby for news.
Defense just said they're calling George Washington Wagner to the stand. I am waiting to see if that's the father, Billy, or George IV. Standby for news.
It's George IV. He is signing paperwork now before testifying.
Defense officially just called George Wagner, IV to the stand. He is on the stand now. Attorney John Parker is questioning him.
George says he is six foot tall. He doesn't know how much he weighs now. He said at the time investigators were taking his footprint, he weighed around 180. He says he spent most his life being overweight. At his largest he was around 316 lbs & his average is between 280 and 300.
He is looking at a pic of his dad, Billy. He says Billy is six foot six inches tall. He isn't sure how much his dad weighs or weighed at the time of arrest or time of the crime. At the time of the crime, George said his dad was bigger than him.
George says he lived on Bethel Hill Rd. until he was 23. In his early years, he was homeschooled mostly. He went to public school for a few weeks. "My mother homeschooled us.”
He said his mom would teach him from wake up time to noon. She would teach the lessons sent to her for each day from a private company. "I had my own desk in my room.”
George says he didn't have a favorite subject. He liked Math and History best. At the end of the lesson, around noon, he would take care of the animals, pick up around the yard. "Whatever my mom wanted done.”
He smiled a bit when describing the amount of animals he would help care for growing up. It appears to be a pleasant memory for him.
"Daily basis, usually start out with feeding and watering them, cleaning the stalls..." His chores started after his school lesson. The chores took, "Usually, five, six hours.”
He says Jake was much slower than him. So, he would have to help him with his chores.
George said he quit school when he was about 14. He thought he was ready. "When I was a young kid I wanted to be either a game warden or forester." His dad didn't want anyone in the family that wore a badge. "He thought all law enforcement was crooked.”
So, his dad pushed him to become a diesel mechanic.
Dad used to hunt and fish with him almost daily on his grandparents' farm, the Flying W.
Having the same name as his dad and grandfather was "very complicated". They always got mail mixed up, social security numbers. He gave his son a different name so he didn't have the same problems.
Dad participated in his History lessons for school. He would "just recite stuff that he's learned in his life". Parker, "Did you enjoy that?" "Yes and no. As much as a kid can," George slightly smirked.
George: dad taught him how to pick locks, steal things starting around age of 13 "After my brother and I learned how to do it, he would go from hotel to hotel in different counties and open vending machines" and steal from them. Jake was much faster than them at picking locks
George says they would go around once or twice a week to do that. He says his dad also taught him how to break into truck trailers and steal loads. "You have to take a hinge off" and peek in and see if you like the load. If you don't, you put the door back on.
George: "Walmart was the one he went after more than anything." Parker: Why Walmart? "He despises Walmart. I don't know why.”
George: dad also taught him and Jake how to steal fuel from underneath gas stations. "You pull over, open padlock, drop the hose in and pump the fuel out of it," George told jurors. They'd do it every weekend starting at 14, 15 years old.
George: his mother was there with them when this happened. Dad would sell the diesel fuel at half price to trucking companies. "Gas explodes. Diesel don't.”
George: they'd store around a thousand gallons of fuel at the property for personal use and dad would sell remaining.
George: I had a diesel tattoo on his shoulder. He was a Cummins fan. He said most kids around here are fans of that until they "grow up and get some common sense”.
George: For every cop he and Jake spotted on the road, they'd get a dollar. Then, Billy started teaching them to spot cameras. "If he pointed one out that we didn't see, we'd lose the 4wheelers for a week.”
Talking about Chris Newcomb, George's maternal uncle. "Chris is more like a brother to me than an uncle." "We are almost identical in everything we like and do." He's a year and a half older than George. "More like a brother and a role model." "More than a best friend.”
George: He and Chris would go mudding, hunting, fishing Jake was always left behind because he didn't want to get his 4wheeler or truck dirty so he'd drive much slower.
Jake was more of a gamer, collected action figures. "He'd stare at them for hours." George said he would sneak and move the action figures a little bit to see if Jake noticed. Jake noticed, and fight with him for it.
George said he and Chris would party more, drink, try to get girls. "I used to drink and party with Frankie a lot." (Frankie Rhoden, one of the victims)
"I knew Hanna before him... I didn't know they were brother and sister at the time." He met Frankie before Jake and Hanna developed romantic relationship. One time, he and Frankie were arguing over the phone and then they developed a friendship after that.
"I considered him [Frankie] one of my best friends," George said.
When he got his drivers license, he had freedom. He would leave daily, hang out with Frankie, uncle Chris, other friends. "Hunt, fish, go muddin', go to the county festivals." He said his mother wasn't happy about it, said he was leaving Jake with all the work at home.
Parker: When you turned 16 and got your drivers license, how did that affect your life? George: "I was more mobile, I got to see a lot more things and do a lot more things.”
George: Dad bought him his first truck when he got his permit. Jake had his own truck three or four months before mine. Jake's dream truck was more rare. "My mother made my dad buy it for him.”
"I was a month or so away from getting my permit." He got a truck two or three months after. George said he was a little bit bitter about that considering his parents told him no for a truck he wanted for the same price and then got Jake a truck.
Jake wouldn't let anyone eat, drink or wiggle around in his truck, you had to wear shoe covers.. sit on covers... George said as for his truck, it looked like any small town country boy's truck: trash, mud, beer cans.. he kind of cringed or half smiled a little at that part
George: When camping with group of friends, Jake would sit with Hanna all night at the tent, wouldn't join in on the drinking. "He wouldn't let Hanna, either."
Parker: Big Bear Lake camping, who would participate in the drinking games? George: him and a few friends. Jake would never join. Hanna would never join. Parker: So, this caused friction with your mother. George: Yes. Parker: Father? George: No. so long as I wasn't driving.
George: I never drank and drove
Living situation: Lived w/parents in a single-wide trailer until he was about 6. Then, "My mother tried to burn the house down, but that failed because she didn't know what she was doing in the beginning." "She had my father set it on fire, but it was her plan.”
"Then, they added another single-wide to it and made it look like a giant L." Lived there until roughly 2000 when they burnt that one. "They burnt that one down and succeeded with that one." They being his mom and dad.
Paternal grandmother got them new trailer. They stayed in it about a year until his dad moved it back a half a mile or so after extending driveway. Then, his parents added on to that one. Turned it into one giant wonder mansion. "I called it the Kentucky wonder mansion.”
"I had my own exit door, my own mud room, everything." Kind of like his own apartment, excluding the bathroom and kitchen. "I would leave in the middle of the night go hunting, fishing.”
George says The "Kentucky wonder mansion" was finished when he was a young teen. "My mother ran a dog breeding business, and she expected me and my brother to put in 8, 10 hour days and basically not get paid for it. So, every time she turned her back, I'd be gone.”
"It was a royal pain.”
In the beginning, she raised Labrador Retrievers and English Bulldogs. George said she sold lots of them and made a lot of money out of it. "The English Bulldogs were legit because it's hard to find something that looks like them.”
George: The labs, she'd get a lot of the pups from the pound and would go so far as to dye the dog's fur to match her dogs if needed.
George: If a lab had, say, eight pups, she'd go to the pound and get more that looked like them and sell those to make more money. The dog kennels burnt and close to 100 dogs died in the fire. He doesn't know how. "Few years later, she started again.”
George: I had my own beagle, "ill-tempered stray" named Rover. One day he dug up a yellow jacket's nest and bout killed himself. "I nursed him back to health." He stayed by my side ever since. "He lived until he got eaten" by coyotes.
George: "Kentucky wonder mansion" burned when he was about 17 after a 2007 trip to Alaska. "My mom and dad burned it to get the money to move to Alaska." After they burnt it, dad decided he didn't want to move so they rebuilt there.
Building new house: "My mother sat around playing foreman, and my brother and I did all the work on it," said George.
Dad grew marijuana in basement. George said he didn't agree with that so he never went down there.
George: Dad and buddies stole a semi trailer of Rocky boots. "We unloaded it, it got divided three ways..." "Thousands" of boots. Mother helped plan it. "Everybody in Pike County was wearing Rocky boots at that point.”
George said, "I can go for days" when recounting the amount of stuff his dad stole. For example, he said his dad stole a load of hot tubs. "We got a hot tub out of it." He and his family went around selling hot tubs to everybody.
George said he, Jake, Mom and Dad stole load of Dell laptops. He said his dad would bury the money. "Where?" asked Parker. "I can't say that. I just know it was somewhere between here and Texas." He said multiple places.
Pike County massacre trial continues this morning at nine with defense calling witnesses at 9:00. The attorneys began at 8:00 this morning because they had to go through exhibit entries and objections with the judge.
The exhibit entry process will take days. Jurors aren't present for that. So, attorneys have decided to work overtime while still allowing the defense to call witnesses out of turn so jurors can get work done.
Usually, the state finishes calling witnesses, enters exhibits as evidence and then officially rests their case. Then, the defense starts presenting its witnesses and its case. However, since there are more than 1,000 exhibits to present, the defense proceeds out of turn.
The defense just said they're calling George Washington Wagner to the stand. The jury is going up. Standby for news.
Defense just said they're calling George Washington Wagner to the stand. I am waiting to see if that's the father, Billy, or George IV. Standby for news.
It's George IV. He is signing paperwork now before testifying.
Defense officially just called George Wagner, IV to the stand. He is on the stand now. Attorney John Parker is questioning him.
George says he is six foot tall. He doesn't know how much he weighs now. He said at the time investigators were taking his footprint, he weighed around 180. He says he spent most his life being overweight. At his largest he was around 316 lbs & his average is between 280 and 300.
He is looking at a pic of his dad, Billy. He says Billy is six foot six inches tall. He isn't sure how much his dad weighs or weighed at the time of arrest or time of the crime. At the time of the crime, George said his dad was bigger than him.
George says he lived on Bethel Hill Rd. until he was 23. In his early years, he was homeschooled mostly. He went to public school for a few weeks. "My mother homeschooled us.”
He said his mom would teach him from wake up time to noon. She would teach the lessons sent to her for each day from a private company. "I had my own desk in my room.”
George says he didn't have a favorite subject. He liked Math and History best. At the end of the lesson, around noon, he would take care of the animals, pick up around the yard. "Whatever my mom wanted done.”
He smiled a bit when describing the amount of animals he would help care for growing up. It appears to be a pleasant memory for him.
"Daily basis, usually start out with feeding and watering them, cleaning the stalls..." His chores started after his school lesson. The chores took, "Usually, five, six hours.”
He says Jake was much slower than him. So, he would have to help him with his chores.
George said he quit school when he was about 14. He thought he was ready. "When I was a young kid I wanted to be either a game warden or forester." His dad didn't want anyone in the family that wore a badge. "He thought all law enforcement was crooked.”
So, his dad pushed him to become a diesel mechanic.
Dad used to hunt and fish with him almost daily on his grandparents' farm, the Flying W.
Having the same name as his dad and grandfather was "very complicated". They always got mail mixed up, social security numbers. He gave his son a different name so he didn't have the same problems.
Dad participated in his History lessons for school. He would "just recite stuff that he's learned in his life". Parker, "Did you enjoy that?" "Yes and no. As much as a kid can," George slightly smirked.
George: dad taught him how to pick locks, steal things starting around age of 13 "After my brother and I learned how to do it, he would go from hotel to hotel in different counties and open vending machines" and steal from them. Jake was much faster than them at picking locks
George says they would go around once or twice a week to do that. He says his dad also taught him how to break into truck trailers and steal loads. "You have to take a hinge off" and peek in and see if you like the load. If you don't, you put the door back on.
George: "Walmart was the one he went after more than anything." Parker: Why Walmart? "He despises Walmart. I don't know why.”
George: dad also taught him and Jake how to steal fuel from underneath gas stations. "You pull over, open padlock, drop the hose in and pump the fuel out of it," George told jurors. They'd do it every weekend starting at 14, 15 years old.
George: his mother was there with them when this happened. Dad would sell the diesel fuel at half price to trucking companies. "Gas explodes. Diesel don't.”
George: they'd store around a thousand gallons of fuel at the property for personal use and dad would sell remaining.
George: I had a diesel tattoo on his shoulder. He was a Cummins fan. He said most kids around here are fans of that until they "grow up and get some common sense”.
George: For every cop he and Jake spotted on the road, they'd get a dollar. Then, Billy started teaching them to spot cameras. "If he pointed one out that we didn't see, we'd lose the 4wheelers for a week.”
Talking about Chris Newcomb, George's maternal uncle. "Chris is more like a brother to me than an uncle." "We are almost identical in everything we like and do." He's a year and a half older than George. "More like a brother and a role model." "More than a best friend.”
George: He and Chris would go mudding, hunting, fishing Jake was always left behind because he didn't want to get his 4wheeler or truck dirty so he'd drive much slower.
Jake was more of a gamer, collected action figures. "He'd stare at them for hours." George said he would sneak and move the action figures a little bit to see if Jake noticed. Jake noticed, and fight with him for it.
George said he and Chris would party more, drink, try to get girls. "I used to drink and party with Frankie a lot." (Frankie Rhoden, one of the victims)
"I knew Hanna before him... I didn't know they were brother and sister at the time." He met Frankie before Jake and Hanna developed romantic relationship. One time, he and Frankie were arguing over the phone and then they developed a friendship after that.
"I considered him [Frankie] one of my best friends," George said.
When he got his drivers license, he had freedom. He would leave daily, hang out with Frankie, uncle Chris, other friends. "Hunt, fish, go muddin', go to the county festivals." He said his mother wasn't happy about it, said he was leaving Jake with all the work at home.
Parker: When you turned 16 and got your drivers license, how did that affect your life? George: "I was more mobile, I got to see a lot more things and do a lot more things.”
George: Dad bought him his first truck when he got his permit. Jake had his own truck three or four months before mine. Jake's dream truck was more rare. "My mother made my dad buy it for him.”
"I was a month or so away from getting my permit." He got a truck two or three months after. George said he was a little bit bitter about that considering his parents told him no for a truck he wanted for the same price and then got Jake a truck.
Jake wouldn't let anyone eat, drink or wiggle around in his truck, you had to wear shoe covers.. sit on covers... George said as for his truck, it looked like any small town country boy's truck: trash, mud, beer cans.. he kind of cringed or half smiled a little at that part
George: When camping with group of friends, Jake would sit with Hanna all night at the tent, wouldn't join in on the drinking. "He wouldn't let Hanna, either."
Parker: Big Bear Lake camping, who would participate in the drinking games? George: him and a few friends. Jake would never join. Hanna would never join. Parker: So, this caused friction with your mother. George: Yes. Parker: Father? George: No. so long as I wasn't driving.
George: I never drank and drove
Living situation: Lived w/parents in a single-wide trailer until he was about 6. Then, "My mother tried to burn the house down, but that failed because she didn't know what she was doing in the beginning." "She had my father set it on fire, but it was her plan.”
"Then, they added another single-wide to it and made it look like a giant L." Lived there until roughly 2000 when they burnt that one. "They burnt that one down and succeeded with that one." They being his mom and dad.
Paternal grandmother got them new trailer. They stayed in it about a year until his dad moved it back a half a mile or so after extending driveway. Then, his parents added on to that one. Turned it into one giant wonder mansion. "I called it the Kentucky wonder mansion.”
"I had my own exit door, my own mud room, everything." Kind of like his own apartment, excluding the bathroom and kitchen. "I would leave in the middle of the night go hunting, fishing.”
George says The "Kentucky wonder mansion" was finished when he was a young teen. "My mother ran a dog breeding business, and she expected me and my brother to put in 8, 10 hour days and basically not get paid for it. So, every time she turned her back, I'd be gone.”
"It was a royal pain.”
In the beginning, she raised Labrador Retrievers and English Bulldogs. George said she sold lots of them and made a lot of money out of it. "The English Bulldogs were legit because it's hard to find something that looks like them.”
George: The labs, she'd get a lot of the pups from the pound and would go so far as to dye the dog's fur to match her dogs if needed.
George: If a lab had, say, eight pups, she'd go to the pound and get more that looked like them and sell those to make more money. The dog kennels burnt and close to 100 dogs died in the fire. He doesn't know how. "Few years later, she started again.”
George: I had my own beagle, "ill-tempered stray" named Rover. One day he dug up a yellow jacket's nest and bout killed himself. "I nursed him back to health." He stayed by my side ever since. "He lived until he got eaten" by coyotes.
George: "Kentucky wonder mansion" burned when he was about 17 after a 2007 trip to Alaska. "My mom and dad burned it to get the money to move to Alaska." After they burnt it, dad decided he didn't want to move so they rebuilt there.
Building new house: "My mother sat around playing foreman, and my brother and I did all the work on it," said George.
Dad grew marijuana in basement. George said he didn't agree with that so he never went down there.
George: Dad and buddies stole a semi trailer of Rocky boots. "We unloaded it, it got divided three ways..." "Thousands" of boots. Mother helped plan it. "Everybody in Pike County was wearing Rocky boots at that point.”
George said, "I can go for days" when recounting the amount of stuff his dad stole. For example, he said his dad stole a load of hot tubs. "We got a hot tub out of it." He and his family went around selling hot tubs to everybody.
George said he, Jake, Mom and Dad stole load of Dell laptops. He said his dad would bury the money. "Where?" asked Parker. "I can't say that. I just know it was somewhere between here and Texas." He said multiple places.
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Billy taught some history, his own version I'll bet. -moo
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I think it's how he was raised. I feel sorry for him just the same as I did/do for Jake. (what they have done is still not okay, but I do wonder how they both would have turned out with a normal family environment) They didn't have a chance. I wonder how that impacts someone mentally? They weren't committing crimes to survive or because they don't have family support, were rebelling, etc. Here they had family saying this is our way of life.
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It's not Canepa's fault these creeps decided to go commit mass murder at 4 different homes with a complicated, convoluted and sometimes clueless scheme. You go to court with the case you have, not the case you'd like to have. I'm sure Canepa would have preferred a much simpler, straightforward murder case with just one victim, but that's not how it worked out.
Anyone who thinks otherwise should go back and read Vince Bugliosi's book about prosecuting the Manson Murders - nailing a perp who wasn't at the biggest of 2 crime scenes.
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I just keep hearing Beth say they weren't allowed to read to the kids. Remember Beth saying Angela got upset about that. Was upset she went to the library. When I think about someone not being okay with kids having or reading books, I think that is the total opposite of what every expert in child development would recommend. Being read to and then reading is one of the best things for a child's brain. I think for someone like Angela it scared her that the kids would learn that there is more to life than where they lived and that what they did was not "normal". Surely at some point Jake and George knew it wasn't a good and right path, but when they were kids, how long was it before they realized that stealing, burning things down for money, and conning people was not an honest living?
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It also seems he knows about every crime they ever committed. He said "how many do you want me to go into, I could go on for days"
Listening to George describe their life of crime & thinking back to how Angela reigned supreme, casting judgement left & right on her son's friends, girlfriends, even the Rhodens & Manleys...I'm about to get fired up again. I swear, my blood boils just thinking about her high & mightyness. I never wish harm on anyone but she was right when she said they would have to fight in prison every day. I hope she doesn't get one minute of rest for the rest of her term.
Sure not distancing himself from the family crimes.
Are they going to say he didn't obey orders this one time when they were killing people instead of stealing?
Gosh... this defense (whatever it is) sure is confusing.
I think the majority of that was jealousy. She couldn't stand the idea of little S or Vine wanting to spend time with Beth. She couldn't stand the idea of little S calling Beth "mom" and she was definitely afraid S would like Beth more than herself - to the point she actually said it out loud to Jake on the phone. Jealous shrew!
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