OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #84

[Betty P]

Paying bills by money order. No bank accounts? moo

Drug dealers, thieves, burglars, etc.

 

[Betty P]

Throwing Tabitha under the bus by claiming she burned her son on purpose. You're so original, GW4. We've already heard these lies on the wiretap tapes.

 

[justtrish]

Interestring the prosectuion is just allowing George to make all kinds of hearsay statements and he knows a lot about things that he claims he wasn't there for, but heard about. I guess they can come back and get him so why not just let him ramble on.

 

[justtrish]

Throwing Tabitha under the bus by claiming she burned her son on purpose. You're so original, GW4. We've already heard these lies on the wiretap tapes.

I would love to know Tabatha's version. I know when I was growing up it was the attitude that sometimes kids learn the hard way. Not saying she could have intentionally burned her son, but I know we can tell kids something is hot and tell them, but when they touch the something hot, they learned quick that they don't touch that. Same with many things in life. We try to keep kids safe and correct them, but sometimes they have to just learn the hard way. Not saying she did what he said, but hearing it second hand I wonder how much of that was Angela saying she did this and it wasn't really like that?

 

[arielilane]

IMO, this blame game is insightful. Blaming everyone, and GW4 takes no responsibility. Poor job with your client Parker.

 

[Betty P]

Now, he's so in love with Tabitha that he tried to rescue her and take her to AK? After being so furious at her for allegedly abusing her son, etc?

So angry at his Mom he wanted to escape, yet he ends all his phone calls with her by saying "I love you"?

 

[Ann99]

Jake told George he ( G4) was going to hell.
An example of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[justtrish]

I have no respect (didn't anyway) for GW4 putting down the mother of his child. Grow-up m/f! IMO

And now he says Tabby couldn't change a diaper without Vine crying. Seriously, lots of kids cry and squirm around when they get a diaper changed. I also think it's fairly normal for a mother to tell a child to quit and to hold their legs.

He sure accuses Jake of being judgmental, but all I hear out of him is judgement of everyone else.

 

[arielilane]

AC just objected, stated I've been letting a lot go. IMO

 

[Chelly]

"My brother burnt the house with a chicken"
(around 22 on counter)

 

[rescuemom]

This guy is 31yrs old...a man child. You want to feel sorry for him but you can't believe he doesn't know right from wrong. There are many, many criminals in prison just like him

 

[Ann99]

This guy is 31yrs old...a man child. You want to feel sorry for him but you can't believe he doesn't know right from wrong. There are many, many criminals in prison just like him

He is a child.

 

[justtrish]

AC just objected, stated I've been letting a lot go. IMO

I think it's good they are letting a lot go. Let him ramble on because the words will come back to get him.

 

[Betty P]

He is a child.

But old enough to know better than to help murder 8 people, then lie about it.

Now he's back to Tabitha is terrible. He and Parker are probably hoping they can make up a lot of stuff about Tabitha because they think she won't show up in court to refute it. I'm betting she will, if AC calls her.

 

[arielilane]

Recess. Return 1:00 pm ET.

 

[Betty P]

I think it's good they are letting a lot go. Let him ramble on because the words will come back to get him.

Prosecution is busy taking notes. They got their wish and they're preparing.

 

[Tillicum]

IMO, this blame game is insightful. Blaming everyone, and GW4 takes no responsibility. Poor job with your client Parker.

Reminds me of a 5 year old getting caught red handed and all he can do is blame everyone else. He ends every sentence with an unnecessary, nasty little dig at someone. I hope prosecution can tap into this boiling hatred simmering under the surface.

 

[Cool Cats]

https://twitter.com/CFranciscoWCPO

Pike County massacre trial continues this morning at nine with defense calling witnesses at 9:00. The attorneys began at 8:00 this morning because they had to go through exhibit entries and objections with the judge.

The exhibit entry process will take days. Jurors aren't present for that. So, attorneys have decided to work overtime while still allowing the defense to call witnesses out of turn so jurors can get work done.

Usually, the state finishes calling witnesses, enters exhibits as evidence and then officially rests their case. Then, the defense starts presenting its witnesses and its case. However, since there are more than 1,000 exhibits to present, the defense proceeds out of turn.

The defense just said they're calling George Washington Wagner to the stand. The jury is going up. Standby for news.

Defense just said they're calling George Washington Wagner to the stand. I am waiting to see if that's the father, Billy, or George IV. Standby for news.

It's George IV. He is signing paperwork now before testifying.

Defense officially just called George Wagner, IV to the stand. He is on the stand now. Attorney John Parker is questioning him.

George says he is six foot tall. He doesn't know how much he weighs now. He said at the time investigators were taking his footprint, he weighed around 180. He says he spent most his life being overweight. At his largest he was around 316 lbs & his average is between 280 and 300.

He is looking at a pic of his dad, Billy. He says Billy is six foot six inches tall. He isn't sure how much his dad weighs or weighed at the time of arrest or time of the crime. At the time of the crime, George said his dad was bigger than him.

George says he lived on Bethel Hill Rd. until he was 23. In his early years, he was homeschooled mostly. He went to public school for a few weeks. "My mother homeschooled us.”

He said his mom would teach him from wake up time to noon. She would teach the lessons sent to her for each day from a private company. "I had my own desk in my room.”

George says he didn't have a favorite subject. He liked Math and History best. At the end of the lesson, around noon, he would take care of the animals, pick up around the yard. "Whatever my mom wanted done.”

He smiled a bit when describing the amount of animals he would help care for growing up. It appears to be a pleasant memory for him.

"Daily basis, usually start out with feeding and watering them, cleaning the stalls..." His chores started after his school lesson. The chores took, "Usually, five, six hours.”

He says Jake was much slower than him. So, he would have to help him with his chores.

George said he quit school when he was about 14. He thought he was ready. "When I was a young kid I wanted to be either a game warden or forester." His dad didn't want anyone in the family that wore a badge. "He thought all law enforcement was crooked.”

So, his dad pushed him to become a diesel mechanic.

Dad used to hunt and fish with him almost daily on his grandparents' farm, the Flying W.

Having the same name as his dad and grandfather was "very complicated". They always got mail mixed up, social security numbers. He gave his son a different name so he didn't have the same problems.

Dad participated in his History lessons for school. He would "just recite stuff that he's learned in his life". Parker, "Did you enjoy that?" "Yes and no. As much as a kid can," George slightly smirked.

George: dad taught him how to pick locks, steal things starting around age of 13 "After my brother and I learned how to do it, he would go from hotel to hotel in different counties and open vending machines" and steal from them. Jake was much faster than them at picking locks

George says they would go around once or twice a week to do that. He says his dad also taught him how to break into truck trailers and steal loads. "You have to take a hinge off" and peek in and see if you like the load. If you don't, you put the door back on.

George: "Walmart was the one he went after more than anything." Parker: Why Walmart? "He despises Walmart. I don't know why.”

George: dad also taught him and Jake how to steal fuel from underneath gas stations. "You pull over, open padlock, drop the hose in and pump the fuel out of it," George told jurors. They'd do it every weekend starting at 14, 15 years old.

George: his mother was there with them when this happened. Dad would sell the diesel fuel at half price to trucking companies. "Gas explodes. Diesel don't.”

George: they'd store around a thousand gallons of fuel at the property for personal use and dad would sell remaining.

George: I had a diesel tattoo on his shoulder. He was a Cummins fan. He said most kids around here are fans of that until they "grow up and get some common sense”.

George: For every cop he and Jake spotted on the road, they'd get a dollar. Then, Billy started teaching them to spot cameras. "If he pointed one out that we didn't see, we'd lose the 4wheelers for a week.”

Talking about Chris Newcomb, George's maternal uncle. "Chris is more like a brother to me than an uncle." "We are almost identical in everything we like and do." He's a year and a half older than George. "More like a brother and a role model." "More than a best friend.”

George: He and Chris would go mudding, hunting, fishing Jake was always left behind because he didn't want to get his 4wheeler or truck dirty so he'd drive much slower.

Jake was more of a gamer, collected action figures. "He'd stare at them for hours." George said he would sneak and move the action figures a little bit to see if Jake noticed. Jake noticed, and fight with him for it.

George said he and Chris would party more, drink, try to get girls. "I used to drink and party with Frankie a lot." (Frankie Rhoden, one of the victims)

"I knew Hanna before him... I didn't know they were brother and sister at the time." He met Frankie before Jake and Hanna developed romantic relationship. One time, he and Frankie were arguing over the phone and then they developed a friendship after that.

"I considered him [Frankie] one of my best friends," George said.

When he got his drivers license, he had freedom. He would leave daily, hang out with Frankie, uncle Chris, other friends. "Hunt, fish, go muddin', go to the county festivals." He said his mother wasn't happy about it, said he was leaving Jake with all the work at home.

Parker: When you turned 16 and got your drivers license, how did that affect your life? George: "I was more mobile, I got to see a lot more things and do a lot more things.”

George: Dad bought him his first truck when he got his permit. Jake had his own truck three or four months before mine. Jake's dream truck was more rare. "My mother made my dad buy it for him.”

"I was a month or so away from getting my permit." He got a truck two or three months after. George said he was a little bit bitter about that considering his parents told him no for a truck he wanted for the same price and then got Jake a truck.

Jake wouldn't let anyone eat, drink or wiggle around in his truck, you had to wear shoe covers.. sit on covers... George said as for his truck, it looked like any small town country boy's truck: trash, mud, beer cans.. he kind of cringed or half smiled a little at that part

George: When camping with group of friends, Jake would sit with Hanna all night at the tent, wouldn't join in on the drinking. "He wouldn't let Hanna, either."

Parker: Big Bear Lake camping, who would participate in the drinking games? George: him and a few friends. Jake would never join. Hanna would never join. Parker: So, this caused friction with your mother. George: Yes. Parker: Father? George: No. so long as I wasn't driving.

George: I never drank and drove

Living situation: Lived w/parents in a single-wide trailer until he was about 6. Then, "My mother tried to burn the house down, but that failed because she didn't know what she was doing in the beginning." "She had my father set it on fire, but it was her plan.”

"Then, they added another single-wide to it and made it look like a giant L." Lived there until roughly 2000 when they burnt that one. "They burnt that one down and succeeded with that one." They being his mom and dad.

Paternal grandmother got them new trailer. They stayed in it about a year until his dad moved it back a half a mile or so after extending driveway. Then, his parents added on to that one. Turned it into one giant wonder mansion. "I called it the Kentucky wonder mansion.”

"I had my own exit door, my own mud room, everything." Kind of like his own apartment, excluding the bathroom and kitchen. "I would leave in the middle of the night go hunting, fishing.”

George says The "Kentucky wonder mansion" was finished when he was a young teen. "My mother ran a dog breeding business, and she expected me and my brother to put in 8, 10 hour days and basically not get paid for it. So, every time she turned her back, I'd be gone.”

"It was a royal pain.”

In the beginning, she raised Labrador Retrievers and English Bulldogs. George said she sold lots of them and made a lot of money out of it. "The English Bulldogs were legit because it's hard to find something that looks like them.”

George: The labs, she'd get a lot of the pups from the pound and would go so far as to dye the dog's fur to match her dogs if needed.

George: If a lab had, say, eight pups, she'd go to the pound and get more that looked like them and sell those to make more money. The dog kennels burnt and close to 100 dogs died in the fire. He doesn't know how. "Few years later, she started again.”

George: I had my own beagle, "ill-tempered stray" named Rover. One day he dug up a yellow jacket's nest and bout killed himself. "I nursed him back to health." He stayed by my side ever since. "He lived until he got eaten" by coyotes.

George: "Kentucky wonder mansion" burned when he was about 17 after a 2007 trip to Alaska. "My mom and dad burned it to get the money to move to Alaska." After they burnt it, dad decided he didn't want to move so they rebuilt there.

Building new house: "My mother sat around playing foreman, and my brother and I did all the work on it," said George.

Dad grew marijuana in basement. George said he didn't agree with that so he never went down there.

George: Dad and buddies stole a semi trailer of Rocky boots. "We unloaded it, it got divided three ways..." "Thousands" of boots. Mother helped plan it. "Everybody in Pike County was wearing Rocky boots at that point.”

George said, "I can go for days" when recounting the amount of stuff his dad stole. For example, he said his dad stole a load of hot tubs. "We got a hot tub out of it." He and his family went around selling hot tubs to everybody.

George said he, Jake, Mom and Dad stole load of Dell laptops. He said his dad would bury the money. "Where?" asked Parker. "I can't say that. I just know it was somewhere between here and Texas." He said multiple places.

Wow! Thanks for all the information you have been adding to the thread.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/CFranciscoWCPO

George said his mom took the test for him to get a high school diploma.

George said his dad "had daddy issues" and would take on the habits of any man he saw as a father figure at that time. He said his dad started taking pills to keep up with one fellow trucker he took a liking to.

Then, he said he and his dad started fighting and didn't hang out as much. He said his dad got violent with him one day and pushed George against a truck and dared him to hit him so George said, "I hauled off and hit him." and his mother had break up the fist fight.

George's voice seems to crackle a bit when he talked about his dad calling him dumb and saying he wouldn't listen and called him ignorant all the time. "I hit him again... we got into another fist fight for four or five minutes until it ended.”

George and his dad had a third fist fight in 2016. "He punched the window" of George's truck, shattering glass on George. George said Billy grabbed George's AR-15 off the truck dash and threw it. George got mad, they got into another fist fight.

George said Billy stayed mostly with his mom and dad taking care of his sick father. Billy and his mom had an unofficial divorce. He'd come visit the home where George lived with his mom, brother and kids.

At one point, George said his dad tried to rope him for some reason, it went around his neck, George jerked it, knocking Billy off his feet. George then hit his father.

Tabby and her sister would come stay the night with the Wagners. George said his dad eventually let Tabby sleep in the bed with George when he was about 13 years old.

For several years they were broken up.. they got back together as young adults.

George: He and some friends were camping and Hanna Rhoden was there. George said, "Hanna likes to play matchmaker" so she talked them into rekindling.

"Hanna had got Tabby sending me messages again... I was at Big Bear Lake with Frankie," said George. So, he ended up picking up Tabby and bringing her back to the lake to camp with them. George said he met Hanna when he helped her get a canoe out of the lake.

That was before his brother and Hanna started dating. "I looked at Hanna as a baby sister." "My brother might be biologically my brother, but we never acted like brothers. Hanna acted like a baby sister to me, and Chris acted like a brother.”

"We'd sit around and tell dirty jokes and stuff, and I'd put beer and stuff into different containers so Jake didn't know she was drinking." He and Hanna would cook buckeyes together, talk about ways to lose weight, fish, talk about problems.

George said his mother was always forcing religion at him, telling him he was "making Jesus cry for this and that" and "Jake was always terrified of going to hell." "We were nothing alike.”

George: "I spent as much time away from Jake as I possibly could." We had "more bad days than good ones." "My brother is extremely rude, and he has no filter and he thinks he's better than everybody." He would tell people their houses are dirty or they stink and need to shower.

George said his mother disapproved of him more than Jake. She didn't want him to hang out with her half-brother, Chris.

July 2011, he proposed to Tabby. She said yes. July 2012, they got marries at a church near his grandmother's farm. Wedding was "catastrophe" everything went wrong with it: power outage, storm, music was mixed up

Pastor Kelly Sinereski who testied Nov. 7 presided over their wedding. He was their family pastor. His son, Caleb, ended up being their pastor in Alaska. Caleb also testified Nov. 7.

George said he got Tabby a job at his grandmother's group home because she refused to get a drivers license and it was the only place she could work without that. She had fits, would "freak out, yell and scream". "As a child she would just rock back and forth and cry.”

George: "Bit me many-a-times." She's supposed to be on medication but she didn't take it. He said he married her because it's not her fault. "She had a rough life." & "I felt bad for her and we've known each other our entire life, and I thought I could help her.”

They had a son. George said it was the best moment of his life. He said Tabby admitted to cheating on his with her best friend's dad... so he had to do a DNA test to confirm his son was his.

Went to school to get CDL and became a diesel mechanic, became truck driver.

He and his dad hauled cattle for Bernie Brown who testified yesterday.

Now, he's talking about his mother deciding to burn the house down. "They were going to burn it one way or another. There was not stopping them."
He said he didn't want to do this. He and Tabby moved all their stuff out and got out of there.
He said his brother set the fire. George said he wasn't sure when they were going to do it, but one day when he was working on a truck, the fire started and he thought well here they go "burning another house”

George: His parents used insurance money to buy Peterson Rd. farm. "They put it in mine and my brother's" names to help them build credit and to make it easier when the parents grow older.

Jake, Hanna, their daughter, George, Tabby, their son and Angela Wagner moved in there. The dad, Billy, would stay with his parents. He would visit, bring the grandkids donuts against everybody's wishes a couple times a week.

George is explaining how their money was co-mingled. He said one month, he might be paying the electric and water and Jake would pay the groceries. "It just came down to: he paid half, I paid half." They'd give their mom cash and credit cards to use to order stuff

George said he, his mom and Tabby would take care of his son. He and his mother took care of him the most.

George said their son would always get hurt when around Tabby. He said one time, she shoved his hand in hot veggies to get him to stop reaching for them. "Even her own mother said she couldn't handle raising a child," said George.

George said he tried to get away once. "I was just tired of putting up with my mom and dad." He made it as far as his gas tank would allow him. He had to turn back because he had no money.

Another time he tried to leave, George said Tabitha was suicidal. She convinced him to stay where they had money and a roof over their heads. He agreed.

A third time in early 2014, he said Tabby talked him out of leaving. He said he wasn't sure where he was going to go. "I was just leaving... I was fed up with my mom." "She'd yell, scream, act like everybody had to do everything she said when she said it…”

Parker asked, any regrets? George said, "I just wish I hadn't turned around in Kentucky.”

He said Jake was more like an associate. "Nobody likes to be told their flaws on a daily basis." He said his mom and Jake would do it but Jake more.

The day Tabby left, he said she was trying to change their baby's diaper, baby was wailing as usual with her. He took the baby away. Tabby stormed out, he said he tried to calm her down. His mom came home to the yelling and screaming. Tabby bit him, hit him with a board, and ran.

"I said to hell with it." and went back into the house. Eventually, he and his brother went to find her. She had made it to a truck stop in Adams Co. He called deputies to help calm her. He didn't press charges, she came home. Her family came and got her.

Tabitha had a different account of events when she testified Oct. 3 and 4.

They got a divorce after that. They had to take parenting class to help kids cope with separating parents. They both went together and sat together. "Yes. I went and picked her up every night."

He picked her up and took her to court for hearings as well. She spent holidays with them. He said he wanted her to be a part of their child's life. "She could come visit him as long as I was present."

He says Tabitha has violent fits, and he didn't want their son in that environment. He said when Tabitha and her sister were children, her mother would condone their stepfather sexually abusing them. He didn't want their son living with that set of grandparents.

He said Tabitha took him to court to change their arrangement right before he got arrested for the murders. Once he got arrested, that was it. Now, lunch recess until after 1:00.

 

[arielilane]

I think it's good they are letting a lot go. Let him ramble on because the words will come back to get him.

Agreed. So insightful and disgusting at the same time, but speaks volumes because he is not the victim through he played one, he is the fool. IMO.