OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #84

[Caylee Advocate]

Wish we could see the jurors faces.

You can, come on down.

 

[ColMustard]

IMO, “Rule 12” option is for victims and witnesses of their right to object to being filmed, videotaped, recorded, or photographed, etc. It isn’t applicable for defendant. I don't believe that GW4 waiving right to opt-out. He wasn't given the choice. Please correct if this is incorrect info. TIA.

This morning it looked like he could've been signing papers to opt-in.

 

[Betty P]

Yes. At the time of the murders Angela, Jake and George lived together on Peterson Rd. Billy did not live with them at that time Canepa said. Billy lived at FWF. Canepa said on the night of the murders Billy was at Peterson Rd. In 2016, the night of the murders was the first time all 4 Wagner phones were together. I assume they mean all night.

What was he talking about when he told the story of coming home to Peterson Rd unexpectedly one day and walked in to see Billy standing naked at the refrigerator door? I was out walking, listening on earpods when he said that and I laughed so hard the neighbors dog started barking. That was image I wanted to erase from my brain.

Creepy that he also said something about Tabitha hiding in the bathroom while Billy was walking around naked. What was that all about? <modsnip>

 

[Betty P]

This morning it looked like he could've been signing papers to opt-in.

If its true that a perp can opt out, its one more sad reason why Ohio is so messed up. It's the laboratory for bad government.

 

[Cool Cats]

What was he talking about when he told the story of coming home to Peterson Rd unexpectedly one day and walked in to see Billy standing naked at the refrigerator door? I was out walking, listening on earpods when he said that and I laughed so hard the neighbors dog started barking. That was image I wanted to erase from my brain.

Creepy that he also said something about Tabitha hiding in the bathroom while Billy was walking around naked. What was that all about? That family really was strange and in a very sick way. Were they into incest, too?

Billy was getting a charge out of it. He knew it would freak out his daughter-in-law. Like men who "expose" themselves to women, deviant behavior. Someone did that to me just to get a reaction out of me. I ignored them and stayed in another room. Note Tabby being in a room completely away from him.

Just my opinion.

 

[arielilane]

YES! He was super talkative about things he wanted to talk about. He would rattle out several sentences. Then when it came to the murders.. yes no questions only.. very fast to the point and moved on to something not related to what he did or didn't know.

Yes, like a showman. It's all about GW4, the showman. You're right, the murder questions were yes/no responses only.

 

[Betty P]

I just keep thinking about his answer to what he thought of Jake's proffer.

He couldn't believe his brother did it.

NOT he couldn't believe his brother implicated him in this crime?

If I read a proffer and in that proffer I was implicated in a crime I knew I had nothing to do with, I think my first reaction would be what a minute.. I did not do that.

He was also so dispassionate when asked at various times about how he felt about his family killing the Rhodens. Parker asked him several times, IIRC. He always said he was shocked, etc., but he actually showed no emotion. Flat affect, sometimes blunted. He was usually looking down arms in his lap, flat voice, little or no emotion. We know he has a temper, so the blunted emotions seem more like an attempt to lie with a straight face. He's pretty good at it.

The one trait that separates psychopaths from sociopaths

Sociopaths and psychopaths have many similarities, such as a lack of compassion and empathy. But there is one characteristic that separates them.

www.insider.com

 

[Betty P]

Billy was getting a charge out of it. He knew it would freak out his daughter-in-law. Like men who "expose" themselves to women, deviant behavior. Someone did that to me just to get a reaction out of me. I ignored them and stayed in another room. Note Tabby being in a room completely away from him.

Just my opinion.

It was so weird because after he told of the event, GW4 then said it caused him to start fighting with Tabitha again, over trust issues and other complaints he had about her. He was actually blaming her, for some crazy reason. <modsnip: speculation beyond known facts>

It was also really strange how he was so passive talking about Beth A, Jake's wife. We heard him on the recordings, screaming and ranting at Jake about her, calling her names accusing her of spying on them for BCI (sounds familiar), etc. Beth testified about how he terrified her when she lived at the house in South Webster, always yelling at her and accusing her of horrible things.

 

[Puzzles8]

Today was very interesting.

I never thought we'd see G4 take the stand. But then again, what else does he have to lose? I took the time to consider what his testimony consisted of.

<insert Barney Fife voice>
Denial, denial denial..... Every one else in his life was guilty and evil, he is as innocent as the pure driven snow. G4 wanted the jury to feel sorry for him.

Parker went through the most damning points made in the trial and had George respond with well rehearsed narratives. G4's body language was worth watching. It was pretty obvious to me when Parker would start to lead him down the road, G4's eyes would open wide and engage with Parker on the story. Notice when Parker story started, he would engage George with rapid no/yes answer questions (credit @justtrish).

But the facts remain, he never seriously tried to leave his dysfunctional family. He might have had brief tantrums and leave for several hours/days, but he always returned......always.

At least until the day of the arrests.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

He was also so dispassionate when asked at various times about how he felt about his family killing the Rhodens. Parker asked him several times, IIRC. He always said he was shocked, etc., but he actually showed no emotion. Flat affect, sometimes blunted. He was usually looking down arms in his lap, flat voice, little or no emotion. We know he has a temper, so the blunted emotions seem more like an attempt to lie with a straight face. He's pretty good at it.

The one trait that separates psychopaths from sociopaths

Sociopaths and psychopaths have many similarities, such as a lack of compassion and empathy. But there is one characteristic that separates them.

www.insider.com

Wow. I always saw psychopaths and sociopaths as similar, basically the same thing. Very interesting. I wonder if one or more of the Wagner's are a psychopath or a sociopath?

Believe me, they have something psychologically wrong going on. Wish a psychiatrist would give an opinion.

If anyone out there runs across a behavioral expert giving their opinions on the Wagners, please post ASAP!

 

[abeaman02]

Can't believe AC didn't object to comments about TC, as her health is not relevant to this case. IMO

TC is not on trial here!!! IMO

I think they are letting him say whatever he wants, because it opens the door on what they can cross him on

 

[abeaman02]

Can't believe AC didn't object to comments about TC, as her health is not relevant to this case. IMO

TC is not on trial here!!! IMO

I think they are letting him say whatever he wants, because it opens the door on what they can cross him on. Plus letting him ramble gives him the rope he needs to hang himself.

 

[Pru2U]

Well that was a painful waste of my day. Did anyone see G4 look towards the jury? It seemed to me he was focused on Parker the entire time.

He's no Amber Heard, that's for sure. She had a stalker kind of creepy habit of looking at the jury with every answer she gave and even worse at every side bar.

 

[NWLady]

JMO -

GW should've just written an autobiography instead of telling the court his whole life story, taking all day to do it to boot!

IF GW really wanted to get away from the family then WHY didn't he do it? He was able to work it sounds like, right? Being a diesel mechanic, truck driver? Granted, it may be somewhat difficult being an over-the-road truck driver with being a single father; however, it's been said he was a mechanic also, AND the child has a mother. There are many, many single parents who raise their children on their own, including some of them without very little, if any, support from the other parent. MOO is, GW enjoyed having a built-in babysitter (mommy) and without her, he wouldn't have had so much free time to hunt, party, etc. Regardless of our childhoods, at some point we take responsibility for ourselves (and our children, if applicable). I mean, in 2016, GW was roughly 25 years old, and IF things at home were as bad as GW says they were, then WHY was he still there, and why would he subject BW to this hostile, toxic environment??!!

IMO, it would be interesting to hear what GW would've had to say about AW and JW PRIOR to their proffers/pleas! I think a lot of his negativity directed towards them now is related to they both turned on him.

This is all JMO.

ETA: I do realize that it's been testified to by others that there was a lot of yelling/arguing in the household prior to the 4 W's arrest, but I just feel it's likely possible thst GW is just getting his digs in and his negative feelings out towards AW and JW more so now because of their proffers/pleas. Again, JMO.

 

[Betty P]

Wow. I always saw psychopaths and sociopaths as similar, basically the same thing. Very interesting. I wonder if one or more of the Wagner's are a psychopath or a sociopath?

Believe me, they have something psychologically wrong going on. Wish a psychiatrist would give an opinion.

If anyone out there runs across a behavioral expert giving their opinions on the Wagners, please post ASAP!

Since they all yell and scream so much, they're probably sociopaths. OTOH, the fact they killed so many people who were actually friends with them leans more towards psychopath. I think they're paranoid sociopaths who used their paranoia to gradually convince themselves to kill the Rhodens. It was a process.

The old expression about the two classifications is something like "A sociopath will kill anyone except his mother to get what he wants. A psychopath will kill her, too." Psychopaths are usually better, but not always, at manipulating people to get what they want. Both types have little or no conscience and don't usually feel guilt about what they've done.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

So, I am completely surprised George took the witness stand in in his own defense. I must say that takes a lot of "cajones" to do that. Almost as much "cajones" as assisting in the murder of 8 people and thinking you can get away with it.

One question I already have, if George was not any part of the planning, committing, or covering up these murders how is he so sure his dad (Billy) is. Remember he is saying he was not part of it but he talks like he is privy to information that Billy wagner was there for the planning & committing of it. Jake and Angela have plead guilty. Billy has not. About 5 and a half hours into his testimony his attorney is asking him questions about the night of the murders. He states he did not know Jake and Billy left that night. How is George so sure Jake, Angela AND BILLY that planned these murders and that the night of the murders Jake AND BILLY left. If he knows nothing, he would only know that Jake & Angela admitted guilt in their proffers.

Interesting, all these crimes leading up to the murders, he admits the four of them act as a team. burning down houses for insurance--mom, dad, jake and him are there. Stealing diesel--Mom, dad, jake and him are there. Stealing loads--Mom, dad, jake and him are there. All of a sudden the biggest crime this crime family commits (one where they need all hands on deck) and he is not a part of it.

 

[Cool Cats]

JMO -

GW should've just written an autobiography instead of telling the court his whole life story, taking all day to do it to boot!

IF GW really wanted to get away from the family then WHY didn't he do it? He was able to work it sounds like, right? Being a diesel mechanic, truck driver? Granted, it may be somewhat difficult being an over-the-road truck driver with being a single father; however, it's been said he was a mechanic also, AND the child has a mother. There are many, many single parents who raise their children on their own, including some of them without very little, if any, support from the other parent. MOO is, GW enjoyed having a built-in babysitter (mommy) and without her, he wouldn't have had so much free time to hunt, party, etc. Regardless of our childhoods, at some point we take responsibility for ourselves (and our children, if applicable). I mean, in 2016, GW was roughly 25 years old, and IF things at home were as bad as GW says they were, then WHY was he still there, and why would he subject BW to this hostile, toxic environment??!!

IMO, it would be interesting to hear what GW would've had to say about AW and JW PRIOR to their proffers/pleas! I think a lot of his negativity directed towards them now is related to they both turned on him.

This is all JMO.

Quote:

"IMO, it would be interesting to hear what GW would've had to say about AW and JW PRIOR to their proffers/pleas! I think a lot of his negativity directed towards them now is related to they both turned on him."

Good point. Never thought of that. He has to be angry they testified against him and that very well could make him be more negative now towards them when he talks about them. Before they turned on him he probably had some good things to say about them.

 

[Pru2U]

No pausing to reflect on the question(s).

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but it's mine & I'll own it:

If I didn't know some of the things I think I know - things the jurors haven't been privy to...I think George's testimony was fairly convincing in a reasonable doubt kind of way. As of this moment, I think he did the right thing, taking the stand.

I might not think that way after his cross but if I was a juror, I probably wouldn't get much sleep tonight, I would be turning it all over & over in my mind all night. I'm NOT a juror and that's what I'll be doing.

 

[Tillicum]

Clearly?

Is that what you saw in the courtroom today?

I saw it on the livestream.

 

[ColMustard]

I saw it on the livestream.

I saw him signing something, with the bailiff and his attorney. But without audio or reading the document, I couldn't say what he signed.