OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #84

[ralyla]

I know this is going go be an unpopular opinion but it's mine & I'll own it:

If I didn't know some of the things I think I know - things the jurors haven't been privy to...I think George's testimony was fairly convincing in a reasonable doubt kind of way. As of this moment, I think he did the right thing, taking the stand.

I might not think that way after his cross but if I was a juror, I probably wouldn't get much sleep tonight, I would be turning it all over & over in my mind all night. I'm NOT a juror and that's what I'll be doing.

I agree. I stumbled upon this case by chance on YouTube. I had never heard about it, listened to the podcasts, or looked any information up. I decided not to after watching the trial because I was curious to watch with no knowledge. I highly doubt GW4 did not, at minimum, know about the family plans, and I do believe he participated at some level. However, as someone with zero background on the family or murders outside of this trial, I think this was his best bet. I don't believe everything he says, but it was a decent effort at defending himself. We will see how the cross goes.

 

[Betty P]

Then someone needs to alert Judge Deering of his mistake as GW4 clearly signed the form agreeing he had been given the option to opt out of being on camera OR audio. Pretty much a legal waiver. MOO?

It says victims and witnesses. Maybe they give the judge some discretion to decide how to apply it in his court room. IDK

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[Chris_p_bacon]

Quote:

"IMO, it would be interesting to hear what GW would've had to say about AW and JW PRIOR to their proffers/pleas! I think a lot of his negativity directed towards them now is related to they both turned on him."

Good point. Never thought of that. He has to be angry they testified against him and that very well could make him be more negative now towards them when he talks about them. Before they turned on him he probably had some good things to say about them.

Yes. I think the wheels of justice are turning. More importantly, I think how this played out is the Wagners (who used to be a cohesive crime unit) are now turning on one another. I think Jake's trial was supposed to be first and the Death penalty was weighing on him the hardest at first, then once he admitted he was part of the conspiracy to kill 8 people, then next was Angela. Yeah she got a sweet deal after she admitted guilt. Both of them had to turn states evidence on the others. Right now we are seeing George turning on his family to try to save his skin. Albeit he has not plead guilty like Jake and Angela, but he is trying to make it sound like everyone else in the trial is lying.

I think the wagners rehearsed and practiced what to say if they got caught and I feel like I still see elements of that in all three testimonies, but I think they are all now in self preservation mode. I mean come on.....Angela admits she knew about the murders but went to sleep that night before they got back. But just weeks before, you have both your boys sign custody documents in case something might happen that night that you could just go to sleep.

I believe George is lying right now just to save his skin. I believe he thinks he has nothing to lose by testifying he had nothing to do with this. I am just hoping the prosecution's cross examination of him exposes his lies.

 

[justtrish]

What was he talking about when he told the story of coming home to Peterson Rd unexpectedly one day and walked in to see Billy standing naked at the refrigerator door? I was out walking, listening on earpods when he said that and I laughed so hard the neighbors dog started barking. That was image I wanted to erase from my brain.

Creepy that he also said something about Tabitha hiding in the bathroom while Billy was walking around naked. What was that all about? <modsnip>

This was so random and I'm not sure how it came into the story. They were talking about something else then side tracked to that and then went on with something else. I'd be horrified if I came home to my naked dad in the fridge for sure.

 

[Betty P]

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but it's mine & I'll own it:

If I didn't know some of the things I think I know - things the jurors haven't been privy to...I think George's testimony was fairly convincing in a reasonable doubt kind of way. As of this moment, I think he did the right thing, taking the stand.

I might not think that way after his cross but if I was a juror, I probably wouldn't get much sleep tonight, I would be turning it all over & over in my mind all night. I'm NOT a juror and that's what I'll be doing.

There have been a lot of false rumors and gossip spread around about this case over the years. A lot. It's a cottage industry. JMO, now that the trial has begun and info revealed, if you don't read it here or see it in the courtroom or in the news media, it's probably not true. JMO

 

[Pru2U]

JMO -

GW should've just written an autobiography instead of telling the court his whole life story, taking all day to do it to boot!

IF GW really wanted to get away from the family then WHY didn't he do it? He was able to work it sounds like, right? Being a diesel mechanic, truck driver? Granted, it may be somewhat difficult being an over-the-road truck driver with being a single father; however, it's been said he was a mechanic also, AND the child has a mother. There are many, many single parents who raise their children on their own, including some of them without very little, if any, support from the other parent. MOO is, GW enjoyed having a built-in babysitter (mommy) and without her, he wouldn't have had so much free time to hunt, party, etc. Regardless of our childhoods, at some point we take responsibility for ourselves (and our children, if applicable). I mean, in 2016, GW was roughly 25 years old, and IF things at home were as bad as GW says they were, then WHY was he still there, and why would he subject BW to this hostile, toxic environment??!!

IMO, it would be interesting to hear what GW would've had to say about AW and JW PRIOR to their proffers/pleas! I think a lot of his negativity directed towards them now is related to they both turned on him.

This is all JMO.

ETA: I do realize that it's been testified to by others that there was a lot of yelling/arguing in the household prior to the 4 W's arrest, but I just feel it's likely possible thst GW is just getting his digs in and his negative feelings out towards AW and JW more so now because of their proffers/pleas. Again, JMO.

I agree. All the times he talked about leaving, but he didn't. There's been enough testimony indicating George was not like the rest that I do believe he was somewhat a kinder, gentler version of the 4, yet he stayed. People whose opinion mattered to him told him he was on the wrong path, yet he stayed. He describes an unhappy life with his family, yet he allows his son to be raised in the same environment? That's nagging at me. He claims Hanna & Frankie were his friends...it makes me nauseas to think he was involved in their murders. Or that he had advance knowledge and didn't try to stop it. The jury has their work cut out for them. I bet deliberations get ugly.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

It says victims and witnesses. Maybe they give the judge some discretion to decide how to apply it in his court room. IDK

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You'll have to get that answer from Judge Deering. His courtroom.. His rules I guess. I can ask around in the morning I suppose.

 

[Puzzles8]

Billy was getting a charge out of it. He knew it would freak out his daughter-in-law. Like men who "expose" themselves to women, deviant behavior. Someone did that to me just to get a reaction out of me. I ignored them and stayed in another room. Note Tabby being in a room completely away from him.

Just my opinion.

For the life of me I can't understand why G4 would take time to bring this up in his defense testimony.

I don't see it's relevance.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

You'll have to get that answer from Judge Deering. His courtroom.. His rules I guess. I can ask around in the morning I suppose.

IANAL, but that's what I'm guessing, too. He's been consistent about doing everything to avoid a mistrial, etc. If he has the leeway to expand the opt out criteria, that's what he's doing. Either that or there's another part of the rules I didn't see.

 

[justtrish]

I agree. All the times he talked about leaving, but he didn't. There's been enough testimony indicating George was not like the rest that I do believe he was somewhat a kinder, gentler version of the 4, yet he stayed. People whose opinion mattered to him told him he was on the wrong path, yet he stayed. He describes an unhappy life with his family, yet he allows his son to be raised in the same environment? That's nagging at me. He claims Hanna & Frankie were his friends...it makes me nauseas to think he was involved in their murders. Or that he had advance knowledge and didn't try to stop it. The jury has their work cut out for them. I bet deliberations get ugly.

I just can't shake his body language from the equation. When I listen to him answer some questions with lots of details and rambling on about things and then when they ask him about the murders, the planning, it's like yes or no and he looks down. He never knew his brother to build any silencers ever? NONE?

I just got the sick feeling that he is exactly like his mother. Listen to how he talks to Jake and then listen to how Angela talks to them.

I do think we will get more from the cross examination. I want to hear how he handles hard questions. Not questions he knows will be asked, not questions he rehearsed the answer to and not yes no questions about the murders. I want to know what he was doing that day. I want to know what he thought about his dad being at the house that night. I want to know if he gave his dad that money for the truck or did he and his brother and mother drive over to pick it up. There are discrepancies, but the defense just moved right along. The state will no doubt pick those all apart and I want to see how he handles that. Does he get flustered or does he have an answer.

 

[Pru2U]

I think the wagners rehearsed and practiced what to say if they got caught and I feel like I still see elements of that in all three testimonies, but I think they are all now in self preservation mode

I feel just the opposite. I think it shows they're telling the truth (as much as they know how to). Here's why: When they were separated & questioned at the border, Angela & Jake couldn't even remember what movie they were supposed to have watched together on the night of the murders. That was only 1 year after the murders. It's been 6.5 years now. I don't see a rehearsed, pre-practiced story sticking in their heads & coming out of their mouths. As far as talking while in jail? Those calls were recorded. BCI & Prosecutors know every word they said. At best, Angela's attorneys may have known what was in Jake's proffer & shared the high points with her.

 

[Pru2U]

I just can't shake his body language from the equation. When I listen to him answer some questions with lots of details and rambling on about things and then when they ask him about the murders, the planning, it's like yes or no and he looks down. He never knew his brother to build any silencers ever? NONE?

I just got the sick feeling that he is exactly like his mother. Listen to how he talks to Jake and then listen to how Angela talks to them.

I do think we will get more from the cross examination. I want to hear how he handles hard questions. Not questions he knows will be asked, not questions he rehearsed the answer to and not yes no questions about the murders. I want to know what he was doing that day. I want to know what he thought about his dad being at the house that night. I want to know if he gave his dad that money for the truck or did he and his brother and mother drive over to pick it up. There are discrepancies, but the defense just moved right along. The state will no doubt pick those all apart and I want to see how he handles that. Does he get flustered or does he have an answer.

Prosecution isn't getting any sleep tonight either! Gloves are coming off.

 

[skyedaze]

I agree. All the times he talked about leaving, but he didn't. There's been enough testimony indicating George was not like the rest that I do believe he was somewhat a kinder, gentler version of the 4, yet he stayed. People whose opinion mattered to him told him he was on the wrong path, yet he stayed. He describes an unhappy life with his family, yet he allows his son to be raised in the same environment? That's nagging at me. He claims Hanna & Frankie were his friends...it makes me nauseas to think he was involved in their murders. Or that he had advance knowledge and didn't try to stop it. The jury has their work cut out for them. I bet deliberations get ugly.

George is a party to the murders of 8 people all of whom he knew. That's cold blooded and sick. I think he lied today.
But George, although an adult now, is a product of sick abusive parents. He has been brainwashed to their sick logic. Lots of people in those types of situations do not leave. They are conditioned to that. It's often not even considered as an option for financial or psychological reasons.
So yes, George is a murderer...he helped plan and participated...but he was created by Mommy and Daddy Dearest. Like an abused wife...people tell her to get out but she often does not..or goes back. It's what she knows and has been the conditioned pattern of behavior. Hard to break that.
Not saying I think he is a good guy, just saying it's hard for people to break out of controlling environments.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Quote:

"IMO, it would be interesting to hear what GW would've had to say about AW and JW PRIOR to their proffers/pleas! I think a lot of his negativity directed towards them now is related to they both turned on him."

Good point. Never thought of that. He has to be angry they testified against him and that very well could make him be more negative now towards them when he talks about them. Before they turned on him he probably had some good things to say about them.

Yes. I think the wheels of justice are turning. More importantly, I think how this played out is the Wagners (who used to be a cohesive crime unit) are now turning on one another. I think Jake's trial was supposed to be first and the Death penalty was weighing on him the hardest at first, then once he admitted he was part of the conspiracy to kill 8 people, then next was Angela. Yeah she got a sweet deal after she admitted guilt. Both of them had to turn states evidence on the others. Right now we are seeing George turning on his family to try to save his skin. Albeit he has not plead guilty like Jake and Angela, but he is trying to make it sound like everyone else in the trial is lying.

I think the wagners rehearsed and practiced what to say if they got caught and I feel like I still see elements of that in all three testimonies, but I think they are all now in self preservation mode. I mean come on.....Angela admits she knew about the murders but went to sleep that night before they got back. But just weeks before, you have both your boys sign custody documents in case something might happen that night that you could just go to sleep.

I believe George is lying right now just to save his skin. I believe he thinks he has nothing to lose by testifying he had nothing to do with this. I am just hoping the prosecution's cross examination of him exposes his lies.

 

[ohioexpat63]

4 hasn't hurt himself on the stand, yet. I didn't watch all.of his testimony so I may have missed something.

I predict if Wilson doesn't do the cross then AC won't lay a glove on him. Im not impressed with her skills as a lawyer. From her opening thru the case in chief, I've been totally dismayed by the lack coherent flow.

I think 4 is guilty as heck. I hope the jury gets it right. He won't get acquitted but he may get a hung jury.

 

[Bridginadentata]

Still, no matter what he claims there is absolutely no reason for AW and JW to throw him in on the killings if he was not involved. There just isn't any.

Is that true? I am not super well versed in this case or with how plea deals work but if part of their plea deals meant implicating George (and Billy) then wouldn’t that give them incentive to throw him under?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

4 hasn't hurt himself on the stand, yet. I didn't watch all.of his testimony so I may have missed something.

I predict if Wilson doesn't do the cross then AC won't lay a glove on him. Im not impressed with her skills as a lawyer. From her opening thru the case in chief, I've been totally dismayed by the lack coherent flow.

I think 4 is guilty as heck. I hope the jury gets it right. He won't get acquitted but he may get a hung jury.

That's how I am leaning too. Good to read your thoughts. GWIV talked about when Tabby ran away after the fight on Peterson Rd and he and Jake found her with her bicycle at the truck stop in Adams County..

He must have been referring to the 1st Stop gas station there at the intersection of Rt.32 and 41. That's the only place I can think of. Can't recall name of the little restaurant that used to be there on the corner.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

George is well spoken but has a child’s mentality. Sneaking away to avoid work. Too much work taking care of dogs. A real pain. Airing childish grievances. How old is he ?
So much hunting, yet didn’t shoot at CRsr. Couldn’t shoot. Unbelievable.
.

Well if he has a child's mentality maybe he couldn't bring himself to kill another human being. How many children do you know that are murderers?

I thought he did fine on the stand and was very believable, so far, even though he was very nervous, which is very understandable. But I will reserve judgement until the prosecution finishes cross before I render an opinion.

I am surprised a little that they put him on the stand. P&N must be very confident he told them the truth and that he was not involved.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Something that really surprised me is BCI asking George to spy on Jake and George agreeing to do that. It crosses my mind that George knew the truck was bugged so he started those screaming matches with Jake thinking if he got him angry enough Jake would let something slip BCI could nail him on.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Regarding the insurance... they may have had an agent or two under the Wagner wing. IMO

GW is captain of the defense ship... and he is going down with that ship.

I don't think I am going to render an opinion on that as we did not see or hear jake and Angie on the stand, so we have no way of knowing how believable they were.

This case has always been a he said, she said case with the jury left deciding who they believe. One thing you have to admit is George didn't hide behind an opt out like Jake and Angie did.

JMO