OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

[almond]

O/T IANAP (I Am Not A Painter) but I can honestly see whoever controls the purse strings saying NO when asked to approve the purchase of painters tape. I can also see the maintenance staff (one or two people, perhaps? Dunno) rushing through the job and not wanting to take time to mask because they have to take care of a clogged bathroom drain or the grass needs mowed or whatever. IMHO.

How about this, Mudflap. The next time this one armed painter finds herself in Pike County Ohio I'll paint that dam* courtroom myself, no tape necessary. In return you can cut my grass. Deal? Such a response over simple banter.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

At about 12:30 to 12:44 the dark haired woman in the blue dress that sat next to RW comes out with the prosecutors and attorneys. She must be a member of the defense team.

JMO

I tend to agree

Before the hearing started, the defense attorneys and the prosecutors went in and out of the room behind the judge. The lady in blue followed them.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

He's got a large scar on this side of his head. I wonder if he's been injured, or had surgery? Having had horses, possible injury.

Maybe brain surgery.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Regarding the scorpion tattoo:

Because the scorpion is associated with so many different things, the personal characteristics that it represents can vary.

• Passion and fierce sexuality
• Intimidation and fear
• Toughness and great strength
• Endurance
• Perseverance
• Protection
• Death
• Defensiveness
• Treachery
• Evil
• Loyalty

Redirect Notice. (Link)

I vote "evil" whether he got it before OR after.

 

[rsd1200]

Maybe brain surgery.

I wondered that, too.

 

[IceIce9]

Just to clarify....Many businesses receive cash...lots of cash. There is no problem with receiving cash from your business. (Think barbers, school carnivals, mini marts, fast food restaurants, swap meets, movie theaters etc.) And as long as a person reports the cash as income on their tax return, no problem. (Look into BSA Bank Secrecy Act and SAR Suspicious Activity Reports etc.) If you deposit large amounts of cash, "unexplained cash" expect that a bank manager will make an effort to engage you in conversation about your business.... they are usually very subtle and friendly when they do. The IRS is "not mean" about cash, they just want it to make sense.

Here’s an example: we used to go to a Chinese restaurant that had a really great buffet. Not one of the all-you-can-eat for $6.99 Chinese buffets that are common in my city, but one that offered good quality Chinese food served from a grill for something like $18 per person.

You paid as you walked in, and the cashier (whom I believe was the owner) used both a cash register and an adding machine, side by side. He used the adding machine to add $18 times however many were in your group, announced the total, then rang $18 on the cash register. I often went with a group of my friends, he added 6 times the $18 on the adding machine then rang up just $18 on the register. He handed out the adding machine tape as a “receipt.”
Same thing when I went with a group of ten or twelve, it was always just $18 on the cash register.

No matter how many were in your group he always rang just $18 on the cash register.

Legitimate business and a rather poorly planned out method of money laundering.

So guess what was the top story on the local news one day? Lots of vehicles parked in front of the restaurant just before opening time, serious-looking men in black suits walking in and out carrying boxes full of papers. Then the owner being taken away in handcuffs, and the employees being ushered into a black van.

 

[IceIce9]

Maybe brain surgery.

I didn’t see it - is it a clean, straight, surgical scar or a jagged scar?

 

[Subiechik21]

Welcome Puzzles8 aka Curiousone, lol! I just want to say this is an excellent thought provoking first post, I look forward to more of your thoughts & curiosities.

The Tale of Al Capone

Al Capone was a notorious Chicago mobster in the 1920’s. He was involved in murder, racketeering, illegal gambling, prostitution, etc. Eliot Ness tried for years to convict him of his crimes, without success. Who was finally able to send Capone to jail? The IRS. In 1927 a law was passed making the “profits” from illegal operations taxable. Capone was finally convicted and sent to jail in 1931 on tax evasion.

Illegal profits are often in the form of cash. If you have a lot of cash you need to either use it, hide it in a bag or launder it through a business or charity. FW appeared to have quite a few LLC’s and Non-profits set up.
I think that a sizable amount of cash must have been found during the execution of search warrants (for murder) on their properties. This opened the door for LE to request new and broader warrants to search or surveil locations relating to the evidence of tax evasion. The final pieces of evidence or surveillance they needed to charge and likely convict the Wag’s on murder charges might have been found during the tax related searches/surveillance. Just my speculation and opinions!

Though FW may think she has dodged the murder bullet now (bad pun), the IRS will make sure she is left penniless soon……

Curious to know more about FW’s Crystal Springs nursing facility. I find it odd that there were only four to five patients. Why did she initially get involved in that facility? Clearly it was personally profitable to FW in salary and lease payments, but very out of line with her other businesses & interests. I also find it odd that she requested a bond exception so that she could visit the facility. Had that property been searched before?

Curious to know more about FW’s “church”. A church could easily explain large cash deposits. I recall that when LE searched FW’s “church”, she complained records were taken.

Curious to know the reputations of FW’s accountants/tax accountants and lawyers that her empire used.

Curious to know how GWW IV got custody of his son B. If they were willing to murder to get custody of SW, I can’t imagine what they might have done to get custody of BW.

Curious why BW was not named GGW V. Looked the name B up on Urban Dictionary. Very interesting…

Curious to know what the other tattoos on III’s arm mean. I’m scared to ask there are any more tattoos on his body. Noticed they tried to cover his arm today.

Curious to learn why “Bob”? – eldest brother, cut ties with the family business and how long ago.

Oh, so many more questions!

New member, probably should have made my username CuriousOne!

 

[rsd1200]

I didn’t see it - is it a clean, straight, surgical scar or a jagged scar?

It's not clean or straight but reminded me of a surgical scar, though I guess it could be an odd part line, too.

 

[Betty P]

Welcome Puzzles8 aka Curiousone, lol! I just want to say this is an excellent thought provoking first post, I look forward to more of your thoughts & curiosities.

Yes, I agree, that was a great first post!

Welcome to all our new visitors to the thread, and those who have been lurking and just began posting again. Everyone has great ideas and suggestions. It's a complicated case with many players, so it's helpful to have a lot of people contributing. it got rather lonely in here before the arrests, so it's nice to have some new names and faces.

WELCOME!

 

[Jonas_Klein]

I vote "evil" whether he got it before OR after.

The tattoos of the defendant, the scorpion, the knot, the rune, induce fear. He wants to look tough and be feared.

IMO, he feels the need to be respected and have his place. It could be a reaction to a complex of inferiority. He comes from a family with a history of success but he is not succesful.

You don't mess with this type of character. Same for the gun on the highway incident. JMO.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

It's not clean or straight but reminded me of a surgical scar, though I guess it could be an odd part line, too.

When the judge read his rights and said "you need to make no statement", the defendant made a face. I thought it was hard to process...

 

[Jennifer17]

The tattoos of the defendant, the Tscorpion, the knot, the rune, induce fear. He wants to look tough and be feared.

IMO, he feels the need to be respected and have his place. It could be a reaction to a complex of inferiority. He comes from a family with a history of success but he is not succesful.

You don't mess with this type of character. Same for the gun on the highway incident. JMO.

That to me means insecurity. If you need tough tats and a gun to induce fear, you are not tough by your own personality.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

That to me means insecurity. If you need tough tats and a gun to induce fear, you are not tough by your own personality.

I agree with insecurity.

Insecure can be dangerous. A dog will bite when it feels insecure.

He is a big man to feel physically insecure. I would agree his insecurity has more to do with his personality.

IMO, An insecure personality would typically want to control around him. He could be a jealous husband for example, although I am not aware of any incident made public about his behaviour - other than the road incident.

 

[IQuestion]

Up late, thinking about the necklace with the cross. Look at the video beginning @ 31 minutes: She folds back one side of her blouse, then folds back the other side. Then looks down at her chest and Ooops, figures out the pendant is backwards (the plain silver side showing) and then flips it over to make the "sparkly crystals" show. Nothing says insincerity like wearing a "prop" and then realizing you have it on backwards. A cross is a religious symbol to many Christians (front or back), and to others it might just be a fashion statement.... why flip it to the sparkly side for the cameras? Who knows? A family gift from someone who lives close to the cross? Or maybe reflecting the belief her brother is being persecuted? Nothing earth shattering, just a late night observation. Sleep well.
She has shown up at every hearing to support her family....and the cameras will always be there.

 

[Willow Knight]

I received a message response from Gitana1 on the question of charges being brought for all 4 members of the Wagner family

"If four people conspire to kill one person, and actively work together to effectuate the killing, it doesn't matter if only one person actually used the weapon and killed the victim, or not. Depending on the jurisdiction.

They probably just don't know who exactly did what but they know they were all involved.

It sounds like they're charging everyone with the equivalent to first degree murder for all the victims because they don't know precisely which one did it the physical killing.

However each one conspired to kill the victims and worked to cause their deaths through various means, so they are part of the crime and committed murder.

They're also being charged with felony murder. So if one charge doesn't stick another will."

Thank you Gitana1!

Big thank you to Gitana and Betty P. My work schedule is crazy lately and it's very hard for me to keep up with these threads. We get so involved with some of these cases and want justice. The pain so many are enduring over the murders is too much for me to comprehend. The above response is such a relief.

 

[Betty P]

Another reply from the great Gitana1 regarding the general application of the murder charges against the Wagners and how it may influence the defense. It answers the question many of you had about whether the defense will try to say the prosecution doesn't know who pulled the trigger in each murder:

Also, yes they can and will use it against the prosecution but I don't think it will be successful. The jury instructions should make clear that plotting together and working together to kill someone equals aggravated murder under at least one of the charges or theories.

 

[Julia966]

I didn't see the scar on GWIII and I looked hard too. I did notice that he seems hard of hearing, as others noted, on both sides. He seems young for that, and it makes me wonder if he's been hard of hearing all his life. It would impact his ability to be educated and could help explain his insecurity and maybe his aggressive appearance.

 

[Gracie55]

I didn't see the scar on GWIII and I looked hard too. I did notice that he seems hard of hearing, as others noted, on both sides. He seems young for that, and it makes me wonder if he's been hard of hearing all his life. It would impact his ability to be educated and could help explain his insecurity and maybe his aggressive appearance.

Hearing loss caused by not wearing ear protection firing weapons maybe? That happened to my grandson. He had accommodations at school for his disability.
I kept waiting for something crazy to happen watching the arraignment. Maybe hearing loss explains it.

 

[pepper 34]

I didn't see the scar on GWIII and I looked hard too. I did notice that he seems hard of hearing, as others noted, on both sides. He seems young for that, and it makes me wonder if he's been hard of hearing all his life. It would impact his ability to be educated and could help explain his insecurity and maybe his aggressive appearance.

It appears W3d has a very small patch of "missing hair" along his left, front hairline... near his temple area. I can't see an actual scar. As rsd said, it might just be an individual hairline "anomaly."
But, as someone who has been hard of hearing all my life, I can attest to the learning difficulties in early childhood. Not only that, but other children are often very cruel about any disability another child has. The stories that go along with being a child who is "different" are endless and, in fact, don't end in childhood. A adult who must continually ask for clarification or for the spoken word to be repeated is fair game to many others. Being hard of hearing is one disability that others often don't see as a disability and they will ridicule the person who constantly requires repetition. Impatience quickly turns to rejection (believe me.)
I spent the first years of my life being constantly told,
"You don't listen! You could do well in school but you won't listen!"
I never got a report card all through grade school that didn't yell,
"Doesn't LISTEN!!!" ... "Won't listen! Is distracted constantly."
"Doesn't follow directions!" (what directions?)
When you are hard of hearing you can appear to be a person who is mentally challenged... you don't hear and you often misinterpret what is said but, you've said "what?" enough times to aggravate others already (or they find it funny) ...so you just give up and let them go on talking without you.
I have a rule: "ask 'what did you say?' two times and that's all the 'whats' you get."
Otherwise, you become the object of ridicule. It's a very isolating disability socially and in every aspect of one's life.
Proper semantics and PC, aside... it is a huge disability.
"Whoever" W3d is, his behavior will definitely be affected in many ways if he has been hard of hearing all his life.