OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

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  • #801
Have they got any idea how they got to the crime scene? How would they have avoided getting blood all over? Did they shower before leaving? Cover up the vehicle seats in plastic? Destroy the car or torch it?

I believe that LE thinks they bought a car especially for the crimes then destroyed it. The reason I think this is the alert DeWine put out a year ago asking for anyone who had any dealings with the W's in regards to vehicles, guns, ammo ect. They could have bought a cheap used car with cash and not change the title over. That way there would be no record of them ever owning it. DeWine wanted anyone who sold them a vehicle to come forth IMO. It could even have been that red truck JM owned later.

JMO
 
  • #802
I have a question for the Attorneys on here.

Since FW has been charged with crimes in connection with these murders, indicating she is involved to some degree, can the M, R and G families sue her for wrongful death?
 
  • #803
I believe that LE thinks they bought a car especially for the crimes then destroyed it. The reason I think this is the alert DeWine put out a year ago asking for anyone who had any dealings with the W's in regards to vehicles, guns, ammo ect. They could have bought a cheap used car with cash and not change the title over. That way there would be no record of them ever owning it. DeWine wanted anyone who sold them a vehicle to come forth IMO. It could even have been that red truck JM owned later.

JMO
I like that theory! Yikes, just thought of this.....OR "borrowed" one of the work vehicles from the farm and Granny lied about loaning them a vehicle? (I have no inside scoop, only questions and possible scenarios.)
 
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  • #804
I have a question for the Attorneys on here.

Since FW has been charged with crimes in connection with these murders, indicating she is involved to some degree, can the M, R and G families sue her for wrongful death?
RAISIN
I like your second question even better. Unless, on just an outside chance, she called LE when she heard her son, daughter-in-law and two grandsons plot revenge against public officials. Okay, so a "very small chance." But something seems so creepy about the photo of the newly widowed (iron deficient?) granny posing for her DL photo in all black and a "snood" on her head. (RDS impressed the heck out of me when he/she identified it as a snood!) I just kept thinking to myself...No, she can't be a part of this cover-up. How many times have we heard, "Looks can be deceiving?" The scenario has as many twists and turns as a Sydney Sheldon novel.
 
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  • #805
Snoods are common in traditional dresses in different parts of Europe.

They are rarely worn today. But the older generation, born in early 1900 used to wear them.

In some regions, they can be very elaborate.
 
  • #806
Extreme headgear. Each group has it's own branded headgear.
 

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  • #807
I have a question for the Attorneys on here.

Since FW has been charged with crimes in connection with these murders, indicating she is involved to some degree, can the M, R and G families sue her for wrongful death?


My random thoughts and opinion this morning. Not organized and not in order.

Even if they did her property is tied up in trusts, an LLC and a realty company. The livestock and cash who knows. By I think George and Angela may have asserts.

Such a stupid harebrained crime that like the energizer bunny (if he were a devil) just keeps on spreading the most evil devastation one can imagine.

A good custody lawyer could have gotten SW for about 20 k. But the sense of entitlement, superiority, greed and a truckload of evil was their choice instead.

It is a grateful community that LE took this seriously as simple and idiotic as any motive could have been, or a combination of several. DEWINE READER AND THEIR INVESTIGATORS WENT THE DISTANCE.

AND INSANE STUPIDITY PUT EACH WAGGIE WHERE THEY ARE TODAY.

For some reason, I can picture each of them quietly and as evil shadows aiming firearms with light attachments at each victim and pulling the trigger. Head shots while victims were asleep or just barely waking when they heard a squeak in the floor from the weight of each Waggie.

In the fog between sleep and awakening most may not have seen the quick delivery of death. CRsr and CRjr did. Both scared, one terrified by adrenaline to defend himself and the other tried to make himself disappear. Neither succeeded. CRsr didn’t die quickly, I believe he was tortured to give up information regarding the stash of cas the Waggies darn well knew was hidden in several places on the property.

His life was ended after giving up at least part of the money. Beaten, shot and tortured he probably held out for a time but pain and fear finally won, and the Waggies got what they thought was the biggest stash of money. The money was a minor motive.

The Waggies killed CRsr a few hours before the rest, and GR walked in on the aftermath. He died when the first bullet entered his drug addled brain after a few seconds of terror.

Then the remainder of the carnage began. Dana, Hanna, Frankie and the others one by one killed. CRjr, while tough at 16 heard them coming. Imagine his terror as he saw the dark human figure aim thevwesppn at him. It’s the last image he had of his young life on earth.

And to some degree I can imagine the satisfaction on each Waggie face as they pulled the triggers sending the death shots exactly where they were aimed.

I can imagine the detailed planning, and the superior humor the Waggies shared and laughed out loud while sitting around the kitchen table. Each detail, each purchase, even storing their stash of supplies in Frederickas beloved horse barn.

I think the Rhodens knew something evil was coming their way. Hence guarding the property armed a short time before. But the morning of April 22 they thought the danger had passed. All but CRsr. I believe he was killed off site perhaps in the barn, and it was his body that had been moved. And his body that had begun the process of returning to the earth via decomposition. His death took time and had to be done where no danger of the dogs barking or anyone hearing his desperate screams.

After the bloodletting was done, I believe they all met to strip to underwear, dump the blood soaked clothing, rain gear, gloves and masks into a trash bag each had in the red truck. The guns went into a separate container and each weapon dismantled and ground up into pieces smaller than grains of wheat. The clothing not just burns but incinerated. And tires which were swapped out before the murders had the originals reinstalled. The stash of cash CRsr gave up was taken home divided and hidden. Later it paid for the Waggie escape to a rented trailer house between Kenai and Nikiski Alaska.

4,500 miles away. But not far enough.

And it’s my belief that Fredericka had the children that night. The seeds of every thought plan and precaution began withvher and evil Angela. And Angela had sights on becoming the Matriarch after Fredericka died. She hoped for the call every day that finally Fredericka had finally gone, not to the Lord, but to purgatory at the bottom of the dark evil cross she had lived so close to. It was not a cross of God. It was a black cross of the devil disguised as God splashed with the darkened blood of the Rhodens.

They practiced, they stalked not only the Rhodens, but afterward did the same to LE officers. I hope LE and their families remain guarded.

The Waggies hung with militia in Alaska. And that’s where the guns, firearms and some equipment and knowledge originated.
 
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  • #808
Even if they did her property is tied up in trusts, an LLC and a realty company. The livestock and cash who knows. By I think George and Angela may have asserts.

Such a stupid harebrained crime that like the energizer bunny (if he were a devil) just keeps on spreading the most evil devastation one can imagine.

A good custody lawyer could have gotten SW for about 20 k. But the sense of entitlement, superiority, greed and a truckload of evil was their choice instead.

It is a grateful community that LE took this seriously as simple and idiotic as any motive could have been, or a combination of several. DEWINE READER AND THEIR INVESTIGATORS WENT THE DISTANCE.

AND INSANE STUPIDITY PUT EACH WAGGIE WHERE THEY ARE TODAY.

for some reason, I can picture each of them quietly and as evil shadows aiming firearms with light attachments at each victim and pulling the trigger. Head shots while victims were asleep or just barely waking when they heard a squeak in the floor from the weight of each Waggie.

In the fog between sleep and awakening most may not have seen the quick delivery of death. CRsr and CRjr did. Both scared, one dough to defend himself and the other tried to make himself disappear. Neither succeeded.

And to some degree I can imagine the satisfaction on each Waggie face as they pulled the triggers sending the death shots exactly where they were aimed.

I can imaging the detailed planning, and the superior humor the Waggies shared and laughed out loud while sitting around the kitchen table. Each detail, each purchase, even storing their stash of supplies in Frederickas beloved horse barn.

After the bloodletting was done, I believe they all met to strip to underwear, dump the blood soaked clothing, rain gear, gloves and masks into a trash bag each had in the red truck. The guns went into a separate container and each weapon dismantled and ground up into pieces smaller than grains of wheat. The clothing not just burns but incinerated. And tires which were swapped out before the murders had the originals reinstalled.

And it’s my belief that Fredericka had the children that night. The seeds of every thought plan and precaution began withvher and evil Angela. And Angela had sights on becoming the Matriarch after Fredericka died. She hoped for the call every day that finally Fredericka had finally gone, not to the Lord, but to purgatory at the bottom of the dark evil cross she had lived so close to. It was not a cross of God. It was a black cross of the devil disguised as God splashed with the darkened blood of the Rhodens.

They practiced, they stalked not only the Rhodens, but afterward did the same to LE officers. I hope LE and their families remain guarded.

The Waggies hung with militia in Alaska. And that’s where the guns, firearms and some equipment and knowledge originated.????????
 
  • #809
CHARLIEGIZMO bbm Luv ya' kiddo! "Militia?"... I am intrigued. A group organized to defend the US in case an invasion via Little Diomede, Alaska? (I'm pulling your leg on the Diomede reference, my friend.) Is this a radical group or more of a gun club...trading/collecting guns? What would attract W's to them, and vice versa?
 
  • #810
Yes, I remember.

Iirc he said it was like 4:30. Something on the line of it being odd at the moment because it wasn’t light enough to see. Makes sense about the silencer (homemade) coming apart.

If the murders at Dana's were taking place at 4:30, then the killers really were cutting it close. Wouldn't Kenneth be already getting up out of bed for the day according to his work schedule? If this time is accurate, then it's just one more reason his murder is so hard to reconcile having been committed after and separately from the others. If the killers had called ahead to play some "trick" on him, wouldn't he still have gotten out of bed to greet them when they arrived? Yet, he was found in his bed as though he was still asleep when he was killed. There would be no good reason that I can think of for them to kill him while he was up and awake... and then place him back into his bed.

It might be 1 or 2 killer(s) parted ways with the others, temporarily at Chris Sr's house, and went to Kenneth's place and killed him at that time. Many members think that there was a waiting period for the killers in Chris Sr's house while "waiting for Gary to arrive" but, maybe really or also waiting for the killer(s) to return from Kenneth's house after killing him.
Chris Sr, Frankie and Hannah would already be murdered and there really wasn't much danger in waiting for Kenneth's killer(s) to return to Chris Sr's place. Both Chris Sr and/or Gary, too, or soon to be... would have been semi-hidden in a back bedroom by that time. They could take their time picking and poking through personal belongings looking for cash, etc. Once Kenneth's killer(s) returned to Chris Sr's place.... all 4 would join up and go to Dana's house. No need to do anything after killing Dana, Hanna and Chris Jr but clean up a bit, bag bloody clothing and go home where Gran #1 might have been babysitting "S". They'd have sat up for hours once they got home, reliving the whole experience... pros and cons and things that went right and wrong... reviewing what needed to be done to "cover all tracks."
And maybe Gran's was awake and sitting right there for it all.
 
  • #811
CHARLIEGIZMO bbm Luv ya' kiddo! "Militia?"... I am intrigued. A group organized to defend the US in case an invasion via Little Diomede, Alaska? (I'm pulling your leg on the Diomede reference, my friend.) Is this a radical group or more of a gun club...trading/collecting guns? What would attract W's to them, and vice versa?

I read something about some activity like this (a group they met and spent time with) but haven't been able to find it again on MSM. I also can't say where I read it but I don't read SM so... I just can't say. Maybe Charlie can help us out on this... his comment gets 10 LIKES from me. It's easy to "overlook" the humanity of the murders because it's so much easier, emotionally, to "forget" then it is to think in such graphic imaginings. But, the truth is that 8 people were butchered with as much "humanity" as hyenas tearing apart sleeping prey while their babies slept beside them. The killers had every advantage on their side yet still probably thought they were incredibly brave and clever. If the W's are guilty, do they still think they were brave and clever now?
 
  • #812
Snoods are common in traditional dresses in different parts of Europe.

They are rarely worn today. But the older generation, born in early 1900 used to wear them.

In some regions, they can be very elaborate.

I live in rural Ohio (not Pike County) and I occasional see long gray haired older women wearing snoods. I think there is a Christian denomination that encourages it. I'm just not sure which one. If it matters to someone, I can try to find out. I also Googled it because I was curious and found out that some women wear snoods for "dirty work" to keep their hair clean and safe.
 
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  • #813
IMO one of the Ws went by KR's trailer to buy some pot, apparently a decent amount since there was much money.

To throw him off they paid him a bunch of small bills.

While he was distracted counting money the gun slipped out and he was shot.

I like this theory, very much. No struggle getting into the home, and it answers the question of how they could have gotten past the dogs. To add to your thoughts, similar plan for Chris Sr and his household. Am I correct that at CR home, the deadly crime didn't take place while they were in bed?

My thoughts have been the killers first murdered those that were most able to fight back or come to the aid of the other households. And my gut tells me that AW hated DR. Also feel that AW was very involved at DR's home.
 
  • #814
I believe that LE thinks they bought a car especially for the crimes then destroyed it. The reason I think this is the alert DeWine put out a year ago asking for anyone who had any dealings with the W's in regards to vehicles, guns, ammo ect. They could have bought a cheap used car with cash and not change the title over. That way there would be no record of them ever owning it. DeWine wanted anyone who sold them a vehicle to come forth IMO. It could even have been that red truck JM owned later.

JMO

Is that not a sick, evil thought: It could even have been that red truck JM owned later.

Ya'll really have insight here, I hope the DA is reading these threads. Lots of good possibilities to build a case.
 
  • #815
If the murders at Dana's were taking place at 4:30, then the killers really were cutting it close. Wouldn't Kenneth be already getting up out of bed for the day according to his work schedule? If this time is accurate, then it's just one more reason his murder is so hard to reconcile having been committed after and separately from the others. If the killers had called ahead to play some "trick" on him, wouldn't he still have gotten out of bed to greet them when they arrived? Yet, he was found in his bed as though he was still asleep when he was killed. There would be no good reason that I can think of for them to kill him while he was up and awake... and then place him back into his bed.

It might be 1 or 2 killer(s) parted ways with the others, temporarily at Chris Sr's house, and went to Kenneth's place and killed him at that time. Many members think that there was a waiting period for the killers in Chris Sr's house while "waiting for Gary to arrive" but, maybe really or also waiting for the killer(s) to return from Kenneth's house after killing him.
Chris Sr, Frankie and Hannah would already be murdered and there really wasn't much danger in waiting for Kenneth's killer(s) to return to Chris Sr's place. Both Chris Sr and/or Gary, too, or soon to be... would have been semi-hidden in a back bedroom by that time. They could take their time picking and poking through personal belongings looking for cash, etc. Once Kenneth's killer(s) returned to Chris Sr's place.... all 4 would join up and go to Dana's house. No need to do anything after killing Dana, Hanna and Chris Jr but clean up a bit, bag bloody clothing and go home where Gran #1 might have been babysitting "S". They'd have sat up for hours once they got home, reliving the whole experience... pros and cons and things that went right and wrong... reviewing what needed to be done to "cover all tracks."
And maybe Gran's was awake and sitting right there for it all.
They probably couldn’t call ahead if he didn’t have land line or ran cell thru wireless internet jmo
 
  • #816
No in the indictment is states like they were used by the killers in some way. How could the killers use the dogs for their purpose?

If someone held a gun, or otherwise threatened to harm either of my dogs, they'd have control over me. Most people consider their dogs family. I can't imagine a human being who could be involved in what the killers did, and then fit back into society. It's terrifying the level of depravity they have displayed.
 
  • #817
I feel that pieces of the silencer was embedded in the wounds of the victims and that is why DeWine fought so hard to keep that autopsy out of the hands of new media.

If those autopsy reports had been released to the public that would have alerted the W's to the presence of pieces of silencer and they would have gotten rid of all the evidence.

JMO

As much planning as went into this, I think the Ws would have immediately tried to get rid of all the evidence that they were able to, regardless of the autopsies. Jmoo
 
  • #818
Maybe multiple firearms involved although the scene seems nearly impossible.

Btw, each of the accused is charged with the same counts and the same specifications. Does it mean LE believes each of them went in each house with each a suppressor? Or does it mean LE charges everybody as a group to determine the participation of each later in court?

What do you think? The same charges for everyone make it look like they dont really know the role of the defendants in detail. Otherwise it means LE can prove who shot whom and everybody participated equally. I doubt, it's that simple.

Anyone expert on prosecutions?

Edit: improved for understanding

I'm not an expert, but in Ohio (as in many states) if a death occurs during the course of a felony being committed, all parties to that felony are equally liable and can be charged equally, whether they fired a round into each victim, or they were the getaway driver.
 
  • #819
Since you brought up age, as for last charge on Jake if true he started dating Hanna at 17 and Hanna 13, with both sets of parents approval, should they have stopped dating when he turned 18? Trying to think how a defense could present it. Jmo

Unless Ohio law has changed in the last few years, even if both parties are under 18, legally there can be no greater difference in their ages than 24 months. He was breaking the law before he turned 18.
 
  • #820
It is "the dogs that didn't bark" clue. LM said that whoever did this was known to the dogs, because they would have attacked strangers. Shooting the dogs would have covered up the fact that the W's were not strangers to the dogs.

It's just my opinion, but I think being the father of a child who was not harmed trumps any evidence provided by the dogs not barking.
 
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