OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

[rsd1200]

I live in rural Ohio (not Pike County) and I occasional see long gray haired older women wearing snoods. I think there is a Christian denomination that encourages it. I'm just not sure which one. If it matters to someone, I can try to find out. I also Googled it because I was curious and found out that some women wear snoods for "dirty work" to keep their hair clean and safe.

I usually see the elder church ladies, more-so in the Charismatic, or Evangelical, churches than any others. It's more-so to keep the hair back, and out of their face, than the "snood" itself, being encouraged. I always saw it as an alternative to a bun, or braiding, very long hair. There is scripture pertaining to women not cutting their hair, but few hold to it these days.

 

[pepper 34]

They probably couldn’t call ahead if he didn’t have land line or ran cell thru wireless internet jmo

Agree... and this is the other reason I don't think they called him even if there were a way that they could have. (I had suggested that scenario in an earlier comment but rejected it in the comment you responded to.)

"If the killers had called ahead to play some "trick" on him, wouldn't he still have gotten out of bed to greet them when they arrived? Yet, he was found in his bed as though he was still asleep when he was killed."

Iow, if they had contacted Kenneth and he knew they were on their way to his house, he would do what most people do, imo... get up out of bed and be waiting for them to arrive. So... not found dead the next day in his bed.

And, didn't DS call KR's phone the next day... and Kendra, too? They were getting his answering service I think. Of course, we can't know where KR's phone actually was the next day as some of the victim's phones had been stolen after the murders.

 

[Gracie55]

I like this theory, very much. No struggle getting into the home, and it answers the question of how they could have gotten past the dogs. To add to your thoughts, similar plan for Chris Sr and his household. Am I correct that at CR home, the deadly crime didn't take place while they were in bed?

My thoughts have been the killers first murdered those that were most able to fight back or come to the aid of the other households. And my gut tells me that AW hated DR. Also feel that AW was very involved at DR's home.

Some grandmothers seem to be in competition with the other side, jealous of everything. It's comical but gets fierce. I never saw the point since we both should want the same outcome, healthy happy kids. Why does the other grandma need to know if my countertops are marble? I swear, I was asked this!!!!!

I can see how the grandma peers could develop toxic feelings.

Maybe KR was killed because he called while the killers were there asking why he hadn't been picked up to go somewhere.

But the other theory, a pot pickup, explains the scattered money.

As for the dogs, since FW had her own breed of dogs, somebody else in the family probably also knew a lot about them, training snd all, and maybe offered to help train the Rs dogs, setting them up for the later attack on purpose or not.

Maybe they even gave them the dogs.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

Some grandmothers seem to be in competition with the other side, jealous of everything. It's comical but gets fierce. I never saw the point since we both should want the same outcome, healthy happy kids. Why does the other grandma need to know if my countertops are marble? I swear, I was asked this!!!!!

I can see how the grandma peers could develop toxic feelings.

Maybe KR was killed because he called while the killers were there asking why he hadn't been picked up to go somewhere.

But the other theory, a pot pickup, explains the scattered money.

As for the dogs, since FW had her own breed of dogs, somebody else in the family probably also knew a lot about them, training snd all, and maybe offered to help train the Rs dogs, setting them up for the later attack on purpose or not.

Maybe they even gave them the dogs.

IMO, The accused knew very well KR. We need to think really hard about this and consider the implications.

The defendants are accused of killing over a custody issue. From there we can imagine any other conflict the father could have had with KR was enough in his mind.

In particular KR was, as I understand, close enough to his brother to be aware of conflicts surrounding the custody. When one has killed 7, why not kill 8.

I don't think the story needs to be more complicated to make sense. It never does.

 

[pepper 34]

Some grandmothers seem to be in competition with the other side, jealous of everything. It's comical but gets fierce. I never saw the point since we both should want the same outcome, healthy happy kids. Why does the other grandma need to know if my countertops are marble? I swear, I was asked this!!!!!

I can see how the grandma peers could develop toxic feelings.

Maybe KR was killed because he called while the killers were there asking why he hadn't been picked up to go somewhere.

But the other theory, a pot pickup, explains the scattered money.

As for the dogs, since FW had her own breed of dogs, somebody else in the family probably also knew a lot about them, training snd all, and maybe offered to help train the Rs dogs, setting them up for the later attack on purpose or not.

Maybe they even gave them the dogs.

"But the other theory, a pot pickup, explains the scattered money."
(from your comment)

Maybe that's just what you are supposed to think though.
I think the pot plants at Chris Sr's house, plus Kenneth's plants, plus money on his bed while he's laying there dead might just be the killers staging the scene by tossing the money around Kenneth's body.
Well, it kinda does looks like a drug deal gone bad, doesn't it? Maybe that was the only motivation for the money and maybe that's one reason why Kenneth was killed. (To point LE in the wrong direction.) Maybe Kenneth was also killed because he would have known about the custody "war" going on, just like Leonard Manley did but nobody took LM seriously at that time.
... not with all that pot around the place. Kenneth would have been more believable than Leonard Manley though. And, if that was the plan, it worked. That is the direction the investigation took for quite some time... the pot and nobody left alive to tell them otherwise.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I completely agree with your statements above. In no do I think they deserved to die. No way at all. But history can not be changed due to them being victims. No way what they did gives anyone the right to take their lives and what they did in the past doesn’t no way compare to what the killers did. From what I know about the victims they were good to their families and to a lot of others, but they still had some things that could have caused them a lot of trouble. The reality is the defense will probably have some not so nice things to say about them unless the Wagners are guilty and try for a plea bargain. Jmo

I agree with you that one of the strategies that defense lawyers use often is to illustrate alternative suspects. In doing that, it sure can seem as if the defense is blaming the victim. In this particular case though, with 8 victims, I think that strategy would not go over well. It could be a strategy that leaves jurors outraged. Jmo, but I think each layer will have to be very selective in what of the R's lives they bring up and how broadly they cover the topic. I guess it depends upon the county the trial is in too. For some, a dust up where guns are out, but not pointed, is much less concerning than for the collective conscience of those in other counties. I'm trying to think of a way to phrase it. I'll give it my best. An incident where both parties let the other know they are armed is sometimes viewed differently (possibly even not outside the norm) than pulling out a gun and aiming at someone to end an argument.

 

[CIA Team Member]

IMO, The accused knew very well KR. We need to think really hard about this and consider the implications.

The defendants are accused of killing over a custody issue. From there we can imagine any other conflict the father could have had with KR was enough in his mind.

In particular KR was, as I understand, close enough to his brother to be aware of conflicts surrounding the custody. When one has killed 7, why not kill 8.

I don't think the story needs to be more complicated to make sense. It never does.[/QUOTE]
BBM
Purrrfect! Occam's Razor.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Is it possible considering the W’s religious views, that AW & BW assured and reassured Chris and Dana that Hanna would be thoroughly supervised and there wouldn’t be an opportunity for Hanna and Jake to sneak off unsupervised? Playing devils advocate here, I feel like AW & BW can both be very convincing, reassuring people and if they gained the trust of CR & DR when it came to HMR & JW’s relationship, maybe Chris and Dana trusted that Billy and Angela would be sure to not allow any sexual relations to happen between the two. Just a thought.

Hi, Mittens. I think your scenario is quite possible, and that Billy and Angela could have reassured them that the kids would be supervised at all times. My home was very conservative, and in our teens I think all 4 of us at one time or another were able to go on vacation with our SO's respective family. And I agree that Just because H went on vacation with the Ws doesn't necessarily mean that the two were sexually active at that point. Alternatively, if they were, it doesn't have to mean that it was with Chris and Dana's knowledge or blessing.

 

[Dudly]

Agree... and this is the other reason I don't think they called him even if there were a way that they could have. (I had suggested that scenario in an earlier comment but rejected it in the comment you responded to.)

"If the killers had called ahead to play some "trick" on him, wouldn't he still have gotten out of bed to greet them when they arrived? Yet, he was found in his bed as though he was still asleep when he was killed."

Iow, if they had contacted Kenneth and he knew they were on their way to his house, he would do what most people do, imo... get up out of bed and be waiting for them to arrive. So... not found dead the next day in his bed.

And, didn't DS call KR's phone the next day... and Kendra, too? They were getting his answering service I think. Of course, we can't know where KR's phone actually was the next day as some of the victim's phones had been stolen after the murders.

BBM

Was KR "IN" bed or "ON" the bed when found? I was under the impression, from DS's description, he was laying back on the bed with his legs over the edge. I could be wrong of course...

 

[Trudie]

Hi everyone. I, too, have followed this since day one. I live fairly close & it was very frightening to think we had such violent person/s running at large. No one I know ever believed the cartel rumor. Everyone that knew any of the victims or now suspects zeroed in immediately on the W family. I know none of the parties involved but did speak with RW once regarding a potential purchase of a pup.

IMO, the Ws have been under surveillance since at least day 2. They just didn’t realize it. And, the more time elapsed, the more confident they became.

I know you’ve discussed “John Doe”. (I wish I had time to read every post). I think it’s RW. Since most family gatherings don’t include sitting around plotting & covering up multiple murders, any discussions had to be conducted around someone they felt would not betray them.

Do you all have a fave in mind that ultimately went to LE?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Yes, great comment and insight.

I also dread the details being revealed at the trials. We may not understand it, but need to hear it. The actions of these supremely evil people should not be swept under the rug.

I think they should be studied. My mind keeps getting caught on different aspects, and I keep coming back to the same question, "How is that humanly possible?" How did they even conceive of such a plan, let alone 4 adults, 4 parents even, consent to it? How many generations knew before or after? How could all of those people go on living, going through the normal routine of life....and not breathe a word to anyone? How could two parents be so twisted as to GUIDE their sons and actively participate in the murders? What went through their minds? And when we peel back the facade, how deep and how far back will we trace the evil?

 

[Trudie]

I think they should be studied. My mind keeps getting caught on different aspects, and I keep coming back to the same question, "How is that humanly possible?" How did they even conceive of such a plan, let alone 4 adults, 4 parents even, consent to it? How many generations knew before or after? How could all of those people go on living, going through the normal routine of life....and not breathe a word to anyone? How could two parents be so twisted as to GUIDE their sons and actively participate in the murders? What went through their minds? And when we peel back the facade, how deep and how far back will we trace the evil?

Really! At least it now appears someone did breathe a word, to the wrong person. IMO, to the RIGHT person.

 

[Trudie]

I was thinking about RW. I think one thing we all need to remember is she is a victim also. She has been thrust into the spotlight and I cannot imagine she feels good about all that publicity. Her previous private life is now open to all sorts of comments from the public. Also she has been placed in the position of having to defend her brother from some horrendous accusations. I also imagine she is very worried about the outcome of these trials. I cannot even imagine having a brother and nephews facing the death penalty.

Also I would think that FW is now in the position of having to leave the Flying W farm solely to RW. Even if BW is found not guilty the R's, M's and G's can still bring a wrongful death suit against BW and family as happened with O.J. Simpson. If he inherits any part of the Flying W then a wrongful death suit could force RW into selling the entire thing to get money that is due him that might be won in any such lawsuit. So I think whether he is found guilty or not guilty, FW has no choice but to cut him out of her will entirely or risk RW and any other heirs losing everything.

JMO

This is why I think RW or possibly her bro, Bobby, may have went to LE. If neither had anything to do with the murders their other family members allegedly pulled off, they must be terrified, in more than one way.
I don’t see RW or Bobby wanting their mom to die and this being her legacy, either.

 

[Trudie]

Of the Filthy Four, whom will roll over first?

I think Jake. He seems so naive. He must be terrified at the thought of Chillicothe potentially being his new home.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Snoods are common in traditional dresses in different parts of Europe.

They are rarely worn today. But the older generation, born in early 1900 used to wear them.

In some regions, they can be very elaborate.

Snoods are frequently worn by the "horsey set" at equestrian competitions. They ride English, wear English breeches, and put their hair into an English snood. Here's a website called Urban Horse Wear that sells lots of snoods to the "horsey set".
Hair Snoods & Bows

 

[cds0902]

Of the Filthy Four, whom will roll over first?

I think Jake. He seems so naive. He must be terrified at the thought of Chillicothe potentially being his new home.

I think rather Lucasville Prison will be the home to some of the filthy fours. It is located just 22 miles south of Pike County.

Despite these efforts, a March 2016 article from The Columbus Dispatch reports that Lucasville remains "the most violent" prison in the state of Ohio. According to the outlet, the prison is reportedly plagued by gang activity, high rates of drug use, and inmate complaints. Although physical and mental health care in the facility have improved, the violence remains pervasive. The rates of both inmate-on-inmate and inmate-on-staff assaults are the highest in the state — and they appear to be on the rise. In 2015, there were a total of 409 violent incidents at Lucasville, compared to 395 assaults in 2014.

 

[Trudie]

I think rather Lucasville Prison will be the home to some of the filthy fours. It is located just 22 miles south of Pike County.

Despite these efforts, a March 2016 article from The Columbus Dispatch reports that Lucasville remains "the most violent" prison in the state of Ohio. According to the outlet, the prison is reportedly plagued by gang activity, high rates of drug use, and inmate complaints. Although physical and mental health care in the facility have improved, the violence remains pervasive. The rates of both inmate-on-inmate and inmate-on-staff assaults are the highest in the state — and they appear to be on the rise. In 2015, there were a total of 409 violent incidents at Lucasville, compared to 395 assaults in 2014.

Nice to know they have improved physical health care. Jake ain’t gonna fare so well in the big house w/o momma.
He’s very small & IMO, feminine looking. Maybe he can do some floor exercises in his cell prior to trial. Buff up a bit.

 

[Trudie]

Self delete, double post. (Trouble with site tonight)

 

[Trudie]

I mentioned Chillicothe because of death row. I see no way these people, if guilty, don’t get the DP. They had no problem doling it out. I do expect it’s going to be years before we know. But at least they’re locked up until trial.

 

[pepper 34]

BBM

Was KR "IN" bed or "ON" the bed when found? I was under the impression, from DS's description, he was laying back on the bed with his legs over the edge. I could be wrong of course...

I don't recall anything said other than DS said he "saw his leg." At any rate, if someone was coming into Kenneth's house and it woke him, probably the first thing he would do is attempt to sit up and swing his legs over the side of the bed in doing so. So, I'm not sure his legs "over the edge" means much. He still could have been asleep when the killer(s) arrived. If he expected company I would think he'd be at the kitchen table or by the door in order to let them in since he probably would have heard their vehicle approaching and at least one door slam. Does anyone remember if they ever read in MSM that his own gun was found in his home?
I am having trouble finding accounts of DS's discovery of Kenneth. Saw at least 3 interviews recently but now can't find even 1. I did find these two accounts:

"I look over and I see Ken's leg on the bed. I hollered at Ken, I said Kenneth can you hear me? I walk up to the foot of the bed and I raise my head up and looked and seen blood in his eyes. And I knew then he was dead," Stone told FOX19 NOW."
Rhoden family ‘angry, hurt, confused’ amid Pike County investigation

"His cousin Donald “Donny” Stone stunningly revealed to reporters that he’d found Kenneth dead in his bunk with around $1000 cash strewn around his feet. Kenneth had been shot just once (compared to the nine and seven bullets found in two of the..."
Was family massacre “hillbilly justice”?