OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#39

[RAISINISBACK]

I think she’s involved in the aftermath, thanks to her son & his family.
She lived 3/4 of a century w/o issues.
I know some here want to blame her, I don’t. The 4 are adults. She had no control over them. Wonder if she even thought it best for JW to have custody of his daughter?
IMO, she did not realize how deep into this the 4 were until the searches began. I will never believe because she’s G3s mom she condoned or helped plot the murders. I do think
she particularly wants JW and his brother out of this.

Related—I notice on a lot of threads posters blame a parent of the suspect. A recent case (now closed) a poster said something like this “his mom probably wanted them dead, bet she told him to do it”, “his mom is a narc’ & is prob’ glad they’re dead”. On a missing person case I read posts implying the person was killed by her fiancé & his mom is assisting in his alibi. Yet, LE have not verified there’s an actual crime. I think stuff like this is pure nonsense.

BBM

She had no control over them.

Fred had control over her own actions. And those actions included lying to LE and a GJ and obstructing justice to keep her son out of jail. I don't think it matters any at all if she started lying to LE before or after the searches. She allowed a good honest man to go to his grave never seeing his son's killers locked up. She allowed an old sick woman to suffer through 2 1/2 years begging for someone to come forward and help her get justice for her sons.

Fred is not a victim here. Just because she is wealthy and the less fortunate of the area has looked up to her in awe for many years because of her money does not make her a good person. She practiced predatory lending, targeting those same people who looked up to her. She stole images from other people's dogs and claimed them for her own. So just those two things tell us she is a loan shark who preys on the poor and a thief.

Maybe it is because I don't live in the area that I see her for what she is. And I for one am not going to give her a pass under the mother card. She needs to take responsibility for her own actions and do whatever time she is given.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I try never to do business on my phone unless I am at home and within my own little wifi world, and rarely then. My laptop is set up for that and I'm not a trusting soul. I have wifi app on my phone that will tell me if the wifi is encrypted, etc... if I'm at a place with free wifi.

BBM

ROFL! That's not the first time I've been told that! Grab that account Raisin, they'll be makin' bank soon!

BBM

O/T Oh I intend to. I am too curious as to how much profit there is in MJ sales. And I may need to take a tour of the place to make sure he is doing his inventory right and has his books set up correctly. LOL

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I meant criminal, sorry. Civil issues are prevalent for the wealthy. People aren’t going to sue poor people.
None of us get outta life issue-less.

If you start out lying and stealing from people murder sometimes is not far behind. There have been many wealthy people who have went to prison for murder.

And just for the record, I know hundreds of people far wealthier than Fred who have never been sued for anything.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Very true. We all have issues. I guess I just feel like there’s a difference in personal life issues one has versus issues inclusive of preying on others to make a quick dollar, whether it be as a “slumlord” or a sideways dog breeder.

Great post. I agree.

 

[Subiechik21]

Here is an article about sheriff Charlie Reader using confiscated drug money to fuel his gambling habit! I hope that this has no bearing on the Rhoden case, sorry if this sounds crazy but it really does worry me that maybe he took money from the scene or something.
Pike County sheriff accused of using money from drug cases for gambling habit

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Charlie, I think you’re spot on re: umbrella coverage.

Does Your Homeowners Insurance Cover Murder?

Yes. Remember a lot of celebrities have body parts insured. The World TradE Center had insurance on top of reinsurance all underwritten by reinsurance. And yes it covered terrirism. Some of those claims were litigated though due to proof of death, some fraud and just because lawyers found clients. We all understand attorneys are rainmakers and love the money from litigation.

 

[IQuestion]

BBM

She had no control over them.

Fred had control over her own actions. And those actions included lying to LE and a GJ and obstructing justice to keep her son out of jail. I don't think it matters any at all if she started lying to LE before or after the searches. She allowed a good honest man to go to his grave never seeing his son's killers locked up. She allowed an old sick woman to suffer through 2 1/2 years begging for someone to come forward and help her get justice for her sons.

Fred is not a victim here. Just because she is wealthy and the less fortunate of the area has looked up to her in awe for many years because of her money does not make her a good person. She practiced predatory lending, targeting those same people who looked up to her. She stole images from other people's dogs and claimed them for her own. So just those two things tell us she is a loan shark who preys on the poor and a thief.

Maybe it is because I don't live in the area that I see her for what she is. And I for one am not going to give her a pass under the mother card. She needs to take responsibility for her own actions and do whatever time she is given.

JMO

Excellent perspective. Rachel Cheerleader GIF - Cheerleader Rachel Friends - Discover & Share GIFs
Maybe she lied not only to keep her son out of jail, but it appears she may have lied to keep herself out of jail as well. For a woman with 7 plus LLC's, a church (a 501C3?), a breeding farm, a group home (paying herself $55K plus in salary as director, $18K for her daughter as "asst") and charging the group home $15K in rent and dozens of on going contracts.... It just strikes me as odd this "tough old bird" did not understand the GJ instructions.
Interesting how the board is playing....Respected business woman or Scrooge?
Smart business woman or an elderly grandma who doesn't comprehend instructions.
Gives "down on their luck" people a chance to own property or takes financial advantage of those "down on their luck"
Believes adamantly in her son's innocence or wants "the public" to believe she believes that, in order to lessen the impact of her crime? She doesn't even have a traffic ticket, per her attorney who was impressed by the info. So her first brush with the law is lying about the worst mass murder in Ohio? (Don't know whether to impressed or disgusted.)
IMO...Very much the controlling matriarch because it is ingrained in her psyche.
Sometimes people have the "mine, mine, mine" personality because they struggled so much when they were young. Public persona vs private insecurities?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I would choose a bench trial over a jury trial, personally.
It astounds me as I read posts (not only this case, but all cases) how many believe the suspect guilty of all charges, despite having limited info.
One active case not even verified to be a crime (yet), but 99% posting have already convicted the fiancé of a missing woman.
I believe most people will lie & deny to be seated on a jury if it’s a nationally known case. Even if they admit knowledge of the case, can they be believed when claiming they can put their knowledge aside? I don't think so.

BBM

I believe most people will lie & deny to be seated on a jury if it’s a nationally known case.

I honestly do not understand your thinking on this. Most people will not lie to get on a jury. A lot of them might lie to keep from having to do jury duty. In fact I don't know anyone who wants to do jury duty. It disrupts their lives and if the jury is sequestered they could spend weeks away from their families. Who in their right mind would want that?

JMO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

BBM

She had no control over them.

Fred had control over her own actions. And those actions included lying to LE and a GJ and obstructing justice to keep her son out of jail. I don't think it matters any at all if she started lying to LE before or after the searches. She allowed a good honest man to go to his grave never seeing his son's killers locked up. She allowed an old sick woman to suffer through 2 1/2 years begging for someone to come forward and help her get justice for her sons.

Fred is not a victim here. Just because she is wealthy and the less fortunate of the area has looked up to her in awe for many years because of her money does not make her a good person. She practiced predatory lending, targeting those same people who looked up to her. She stole images from other people's dogs and claimed them for her own. So just those two things tell us she is a loan shark who preys on the poor and a thief.

Maybe it is because I don't live in the area that I see her for what she is. And I for one am not going to give her a pass under the mother card. She needs to take responsibility for her own actions and do whatever time she is given.

JMO

This is an instance where I’m going to wait and see what the evidence shows when presented.

And my reasonings are;

FW IS very controlling, a master of her universe and is very accustomed to prevailing.

I don’t for a second believe she is a sweet old compassionate lady who built her life close to any cross any of us worship.

She knew and was in control of her family.

It may be possible that whoever is the confidential source/informant cut a deal with the prosecutors to allow minimal charges against her. This could be especially true if that person was one of her kids or a long term employee.

You can look at her everyday business deals as being shrewd or on the flip side understand she was dealing with simple people, some who could not read well and barely write. She could simply have been taking advantage of a group in order to add to her bank account.

I have seen, over the course of my career, pillars of the community, youth pastors, lay ministers and “perfect” family people and community leaders use all of those things to cover for murders, sex trafficking and abuse of all kinds.

Each gave to the proper charities and in one instance the community was floored when it was learned a community leader had raised millions of dollars for a well known terririst group.

So I’m waiting. I’m going to look at evidence. So many people have been fooled so many times and my intuition is shouting at me that she had to know. And she may have been a very sizable participant.

All my opinion.

 

[Dudly]

Respectfully, FW is charged with perjury and obstruction of justice. Those are by all means intentional crimes. Considering the length of the investigation, I have to imagine that LE, the AG, the grand jury, and Junk have significant evidence in order to bring charges against a woman not only of great social stature but also a woman the age of FW. She’s elderly.

FW is not only charged with lying during the investigation, she then got on the stand at the GJ hearing and presumably lied under oath. Perhaps she didn’t play a role in the murders that occurred, but at some point, if not prior to the murders, she had some sort of knowledge that she knew would implicate her son, daughter in law and grandsons. Instead of being truthful, she is accused of hindering the investigation. Personally, I can only assume she was doing what a lot of mothers and grandmothers would do-trying to protect her family but I guess at the same time it’s hard to find sympathy because there’s other families (Rhodens, Gilleys, and Manleys) who had their children and grandchildren stolen from them. Those victims are the ones who deserve to be protected, even if it is in death.

I’m no saint myself, however I am an honest person. It’s hard for me to wrap my head around how and why a mother and grandmother would lie during a mass murder investigation. Yes, she is innocent until proven guilty, but in general I’m a black and white kinda person. There is no gray area. If I had knowledge my child was involved in such a crime (God forbid), while it would break my heart, I’d also be the first person beating down investigator’s doors to tell the truth. JMHO.

I have always told my kids if they got in trouble with the law do not expect me to lie to help them out. I can not take the chance on messing up my life because they messed up theirs...

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Respectfully, FW is charged with perjury and obstruction of justice. Those are by all means intentional crimes. Considering the length of the investigation, I have to imagine that LE, the AG, the grand jury, and Junk have significant evidence in order to bring charges against a woman not only of great social stature but also a woman the age of FW. She’s elderly.

FW is not only charged with lying during the investigation, she then got on the stand at the GJ hearing and presumably lied under oath. Perhaps she didn’t play a role in the murders that occurred, but at some point, if not prior to the murders, she had some sort of knowledge that she knew would implicate her son, daughter in law and grandsons. Instead of being truthful, she is accused of hindering the investigation. Personally, I can only assume she was doing what a lot of mothers and grandmothers would do-trying to protect her family but I guess at the same time it’s hard to find sympathy because there’s other families (Rhodens, Gilleys, and Manleys) who had their children and grandchildren stolen from them. Those victims are the ones who deserve to be protected, even if it is in death.

I’m no saint myself, however I am an honest person. It’s hard for me to wrap my head around how and why a mother and grandmother would lie during a mass murder investigation. Yes, she is innocent until proven guilty, but in general I’m a black and white kinda person. There is no gray area. If I had knowledge my child was involved in such a crime (God forbid), while it would break my heart, I’d also be the first person beating down investigator’s doors to tell the truth. JMHO.

Great post and I totally agree. Fred is not a victim in this. Fred is a suspect who has been charged with some serious crimes. Fred is responsible for her own actions. She should have been helping to get 4 cold bloodied killers off the street instead of lying to keep them out of jail. And playing the mother card doesn't cut it with me.

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

BBM

I believe most people will lie & deny to be seated on a jury if it’s a nationally known case.

I honestly do not understand your thinking on this. Most people will not lie to get on a jury. A lot of them might lie to keep from having to do jury duty. In fact I don't know anyone who wants to do jury duty. It disrupts their lives and if the jury is sequestered they could spend weeks away from their families. Who in their right mind would want that?

JMO

Not me. I tried getting out first time, didn’t work, then never got picked.
Got another request and was allowed out because off time frame from first.
Got third request had to prove I was no longer in that Co.
Keeping addy on DL as is till I get a forth, then I update addy. Staying one step ahead.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I have always told my kids if they got in trouble with the law do not expect me to lie to help them out. I can not take the chance on messing up my life because they messed up theirs...

Agree 100%. We can raise them to be the best, but at the end of the day, they can and will make their own decisions. I’ll never be a parent that hides or supports criminal acts or any poor decisions for that matter.

 

[IQuestion]

Has this complete list been posted, yet?
Nearly two dozen agencies from 10 different states and Canada helped: Adams County Sheriff's Office, Buckeye State Sheriffs' Association, Butler County Sheriff's Office, Chillicothe Police Department, Clark County Prosecutor's Office, Columbus Division of Police, Delaware County Sheriff's Office, Franklin County Prosecutor's Office, Franklin County Sheriff's Office, Hamilton County Prosecutor's Office, Ohio Air National Guard, Ohio Crisis Response Team, Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction, Ohio Department of Taxation, Ohio Organized Crime Investigations Commission, Ohio State Highway Patrol, Pickaway County Sheriff's Office, Piketon Police Department, Portsmouth Police Department, Ross County Sheriff's Office, Scioto County Prosecutor's Office, Scioto County Sheriff's Office, U.S. 23 Major Crimes Task Force, Warren County Prosecutor's Office, Warren County Sheriff's Office, Waverly Police Department, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Customs and Border Patrol, Drug Enforcement Agency, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Homeland Security Investigations, U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of Ohio, and the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.
info found 2/3rd down on this article & the only thing missing is US Treasury?
23 major crimes task force may include them. If this isn't bad, you haven't seen bad.
UPDATE: Pike County to receive $100,000 for costs of massacre trial

 

[Charliegizmo49]

From the article referenced above: "The reason the liability clause covered this settlement is that the lawyers for the victims sued the killers’ parents for being negligent in the supervision of their children. Insurance company payments on behalf of the people who supplied the guns used in the killings bring the total of the settlement to about $2.5 million."
( much to discuss. AW & GW3 lived with the boys, not FW. Someone will take a run at it, our insurance premiums go up too, when others are negligent. Catch 22

Yet another financial impact I didn’t think about.

Being in the public sector if anything I learned this;

For every good, positive law or idea you try to accomplish, there are 6 people who are smarter and more conniving than you. They will find a semi legal way around it.

This leads me to this;

Regardless of the number of laws written, a government body cannot legislate morals, ethics or mandate people to do the right thing by others.

 

[Dudly]

BBM

O/T Oh I intend to. I am too curious as to how much profit there is in MJ sales. And I may need to take a tour of the place to make sure he is doing his inventory right and has his books set up correctly. LOL

Trade product for services? lol

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Has this complete list been posted, yet?
Nearly two dozen agencies from 10 different states and Canada helped: Adams County Sheriff's Office, Buckeye State Sheriffs' Association, Butler County Sheriff's Office, Chillicothe Police Department, Clark County Prosecutor's Office, Columbus Division of Police, Delaware County Sheriff's Office, Franklin County Prosecutor's Office, Franklin County Sheriff's Office, Hamilton County Prosecutor's Office, Ohio Air National Guard, Ohio Crisis Response Team, Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction, Ohio Department of Taxation, Ohio Organized Crime Investigations Commission, Ohio State Highway Patrol, Pickaway County Sheriff's Office, Piketon Police Department, Portsmouth Police Department, Ross County Sheriff's Office, Scioto County Prosecutor's Office, Scioto County Sheriff's Office, U.S. 23 Major Crimes Task Force, Warren County Prosecutor's Office, Warren County Sheriff's Office, Waverly Police Department, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Customs and Border Patrol, Drug Enforcement Agency, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Homeland Security Investigations, U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of Ohio, and the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.
info found 2/3rd down on this article & the only thing missing is US Treasury?
UPDATE: Pike County to receive $100,000 for costs of massacre trial

$100,000.00 isn’t a drop in the proverbial bucket as far as what this mess is going to cost from here forward.

It might cover most expenses associated with one DP proceeding/prosecution.

 

[Trudie]

Not me. I tried getting out first time, didn’t work, then never got picked.
Got another request and was allowed out because off time frame from first.
Got third request had to prove I was no longer in that Co.
Keeping addy on DL as is till I get a forth, then I update addy. Staying one step ahead.

There’s websites with tutorials coaching people on how to get chosen. I agree most don’t want to be on every day cases, not knowing their schedule from day to day. But, the cases that are covered on national news are a different story.

OT, I have a lot of posts missing. I just realized as I looked at the post numbers. Why?

 

[Dudly]

Not me. I tried getting out first time, didn’t work, then never got picked.
Got another request and was allowed out because off time frame from first.
Got third request had to prove I was no longer in that Co.
Keeping addy on DL as is till I get a forth, then I update addy. Staying one step ahead.

I was to serve jury duty one time. I sent a reply that I had first hand knowledge how their court system worked. Just let me know how to vote. Iwas never asked again...lol

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I never stated I feel sympathy for FW.
I certainly hope she was sickened by the news of the crime.
At this point, idk what her lies consisted of.
Venturing a guess, maybe she was asked about the “revenge convo” allegedly held at her house & she denied it, again, idk.

Trudie I think you are going to be really surprised when the details of this crime start coming out in the trial and shocked when you learn just how much involvement Fred and Rita had in it all. You want to portray Fred as some confused old woman who was duped into committing a crime by her own son. But by your own description she is a sharp, fully competent businesswoman who is anything but confused. And Rita we know had knowledge from April 3, 2016 because that is the date that LE alleges she forged custody documents.

As has been stated on here many times, LE very rarely charges parents for lying to keep their kids out of jail. The very fact that Fred and Rita were charged with obstruction of justice speaks volumes as to their knowledge and participation in these murders. IMO their participation runs much deeper but the obstruction and perjury were the only charges LE was sure they could get a conviction on.

JMO