OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[Puzzles8]

Just in case anyone has insomnia, more food for thought re: purpose of conspiracy charges.
Pinkerton Doctine Definition

 

[Trudie]

Just in case anyone has insomnia, more food for thought re: purpose of conspiracy charges.
Pinkerton Doctine Definition

Lol, you’ve found some deep reads for us. I’m half thru your previous link.

 

[Myland]

Subpoena: State auditor sought personnel, financial records

 

[Trisha6465]

I found none of these LLCs at the Ohio Secretary of State Website; unless she incorporated in another State.

Ohio Secretary of State Business Search-Business Name

I found them. All filed on 9/19/16. I searched by last name.

 

[IQuestion]

It appears little or no physical evidence. If they had that, arrests would have been much sooner, IMO.
I think Ohio can bring charges with little evidence as long as they can get an indictment. After a lengthy investigation, interviewing countless people, IMO, the same name kept popping up. W!
The investigators are still scouring notes & stuff, digging for more info, IMO.
Maybe, just maybe, DeWine thought they might move again & wanted to bring ‘em in.
Upcharge upcharge upcharge. Hope something sticks. IMO
The indictments make it clear (to me) they can’t match a suspect with a victim.

BBm above: Perhaps, at the time of the indictment "an individual suspect" was not matched to a specific victim. However, a specific weapon can be matched to a victim....and blood drops and or bloody footprints would indicate who was shot first, etc. and how the perp(s) moved through the residence. If I were a detective trying to get that answer, during an interview, this is how I would proceed: "GWIV, you are a young man and we would sure like you to be able to see your young son someday. Life w/parole 25 years, is something we could recommend to the DA if you answer just one question for us. Now of course, you must be absolutely honest in your answer. I have all the information I need and if your answer matches what I have written down in my report from the forensic team, then I think we can make a deal. You realize of course, we are just testing whether or not you are being honest with us and you don't have to give up any of your family. Just tell us which weapon you carried."
Real detectives are probably aghast at my approach. But I think it could work. The "guy/gal"
cuts a deal, with out giving up fellow family members (thus saving face and not ratting on rellies)....and even the defense attorneys might be pushing/working for the same deal.

 

[Trudie]

BBm above: Perhaps, at the time of the indictment "an individual suspect" was not matched to a specific victim. However, a specific weapon can be matched to a victim....and blood drops and or bloody footprints would indicate who was shot first, etc. and how the perp(s) moved through the residence. If I were a detective trying to get that answer, during an interview, this is how I would proceed: "GWIV, you are a young man and we would sure like you to be able to see your young son someday. Life w/parole 25 years, is something we could recommend to the DA if you answer just one question for us. Now of course, you must be absolutely honest in your answer. I have all the information I need and if your answer matches what I have written down in my report from the forensic team, then I think we can make a deal. You realize of course, we are just testing whether or not you are being honest with us and you don't have to give up any of your family. Just tell us which weapon you carried."
Real detectives are probably aghast at my approach. But I think it could work. The "guy/gal"
cuts a deal, with out giving up fellow family members (thus saving face and not ratting on rellies)....and even the defense attorneys might be pushing/working for the same deal.

Absolutely, IQ! I do believe this hypo’ sitch is or will be underway, soon. Albeit, behind scenes. I see no detectives in the pic’ tho, only legal eagles. I do think the DA would prefer someone to roll over & may not be so willing to deal w/o knowing details.

I must refresh my memory on forensics found at the scene.

I would say this to JW, “if you are not fully prepared to die & you feel you are less culpable in these charges, you need to start talking, truthfully. Think of no other, they have their own defense, likely telling them the very same thing. In light of the evidence against you, the DP is a real possibility.”

 

[Trudie]

https://www.ncsc.org/~/media/Files/...al/Plea Bargaining and the Death Penalty.ashx

I found this ^ interesting.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

At the scene possibly but not necessarily in the scenes. A look out or get away driver can be charged with murder for having participated in the crime that caused people to be murdered.

The conspiracy was to kill each one of these people. They have to prove that each Wag took an action in furtherance of the conspiracy. If they were in on the planning and they made the silencer, they didn't need to be there. They furthered the acoomplishment of the conspiracy.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Myland, you da bomb! I found it. Any thoughts on how to get to the details of these motions!

Which motion are you looking for details on? Most of these motions are standard in death penalty cases.

 

[Trudie]

The conspiracy was to kill each one of these people. They have to prove that each Wag took an action in furtherance of the conspiracy. If they were in on the planning and they made the silencer, they didn't need to be there. They furthered the acoomplishment of the conspiracy.

This is how I interpret the charges, too.

 

[Trudie]

Which motion are you looking for details on? Most of these motions are standard in death penalty cases.

She got them, AWs motions.
I’ve not heard of one unique motion, have you?
Like a standard form list printed off the computer.

 

[Trudie]

Yes, why? Why not just out them when they were all living in what became FR's trailer, on CR1's property where he had the grow? It would have helped him with gaining more time with S, and possibly becoming the custodial parent, by going through the courts. Why didn't they use the courts? Why risk it all through the murder of eight people?

Like I said previously, I’m guessing AW had a dossier on HR & family, in the event JW did seek custody, thru the court.

 

[IQuestion]

BBm above: Perhaps, at the time of the indictment "an individual suspect" was not matched to a specific victim. However, a specific weapon can be matched to a victim....and blood drops and or bloody footprints would indicate who was shot first, etc. and how the perp(s) moved through the residence. If I were a detective trying to get that answer, during an interview, this is how I would proceed: "GWIV, you are a young man and we would sure like you to be able to see your young son someday. Life w/parole 25 years, is something we could recommend to the DA if you answer just one question for us. Now of course, you must be absolutely honest in your answer. I have all the information I need and if your answer matches what I have written down in my report from the forensic team, then I think we can make a deal. You realize of course, we are just testing whether or not you are being honest with us and you don't have to give up any of your family. Just tell us which weapon you carried."
Real detectives are probably aghast at my approach. But I think it could work. The "guy/gal"
cuts a deal, with out giving up fellow family members (thus saving face and not ratting on rellies)....and even the defense attorneys might be pushing/working for the same deal.

Expanding on my thoughts: I purposely used GWIV because of: 1) his age, still in his early 50's and able to reconcile with his son 2) the fact he already had gained custody of his son (legally), 3) formalized ending of his marriage/relationship (legally) 4) He would not be the primary caregiver for SW under any circumstance 5) His lack of an arrest record (think we would have heard of it by now) 6) Family loyalty, to the point of vocal threats against Sheriff, AG & agent Sheider(sp?).... (clannish hubris of being an elite W, guessing no one told him it was an accident of birth, not a birthright!) 7) GWIII wouldn't volunteer anything because IMO he'd be the toughest nut to crack, due to past brushes with the law and his dubious tattoos. hmmm.... no one told him the scorpion tattoo is also a sign of HIV positive in the prison system. Yep, look it up for yourself.) 8) GWIV doesn't seem to have the same "family- circling-the-wagons-for-Jake" devotion that has been heaped upon JW. 9) He is not facing charges of sex with a minor, so life will be easier for him in the Graybar Hotel. Ergo, I believe he would be the one who would tell what weapon he carried. 10) He technically would not be a snitch (If nothing else, it will give us a lot to debate....or just another piece of the 1000 piece puzzle.)

 

[Trudie]

Expanding on my thoughts: I purposely used GWIV because of: 1) his age, 2) the fact he already had gained custody of his son (legally), 3) formalized ending of his marriage/relationship (legally) 4) He would not be the primary caregiver for SW under any circumstance 5) His lack of an arrest record (think we would have heard of it by now) 6) Family loyalty, to the point of vocal threats against Sheriff, AG & agent Sheider(sp?).... (clannish hubris of being an elite W, guessing no one told him it was an accident of birth, not a birthright!) 7) GWIII wouldn't volunteer anything because IMO he'd be the toughest nut to crack, due to past brushes with the law and his dubious tattoos. hmmm.... no one told him the scorpion tattoo is also a sign of HIV positive in the prison system. Yep, look it up for yourself.) 8) GWIV doesn't seem to have the same "family- circling-the-wagons-for-Jake" devotion that has been heaped upon JW. 9) He is not facing charges of sex with a minor, so life will be easier for him in the Graybar Hotel. Ergo, I believe he would be the one who would tell what weapon he carried. 10) He technically would not be a snitch (If nothing else, it will give us a lot to debate....or just another piece of the 1000 piece puzzle.)

7) not sure when G3 got tatted. The scorpion has had dif’ meanings thru the years IMO. I think his size, experience & appearance assures his safety in the big house. If not, he can flaunt his tat, that’ll keep the boys away. MOO

George Wagner IV pleads not guilty to murder charges, held without bond
According to this, G4 has NO criminal record.

 

[IQuestion]

7) not sure when G3 got tatted. The scorpion has had dif’ meanings thru the years IMO. I think his size, experience & appearance assures his safety in the big house. If not, he can flaunt his tat, that’ll keep the boys away. MOO

George Wagner IV pleads not guilty to murder charges, held without bond
According to this, G4 has NO criminal record.

"A scorpion tattoo in the gay community is a symbol that the wearer is HIV positive."
5th one down, SCORPION TATTOO MEANINGS
Scorpion Tattoo Meanings, Ideas, and Unique Designs
As I have stated before, if it isn't a butterfly or a ladybug tattoo, I am always wary of the person. It could just mean he is a tough guy, but I am sure his "tats"
was a point of contention with his Father. I know tattoos are popular with young people, now. (Because I do not often possess the politeness of political correctness or just because I am an ill-tempered old gal, will just blurt out, "What were you thinking when you got that tattoo?!")

 

[Woodpecker]

I have wondered if the Wagners and the Rhodens could have gone into some sort
of business arrangement selling cars. In an article from not long after the murders the amount of cars on the property was discussed. “Why the Rhoden Family Had So Many Cars”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/84433962

If so, possibly the perception that they were being cut out of profits or some other bad feelings could have developed.[/

I have wondered if the Wagners and the Rhodens could have gone into some sort
of business arrangement selling cars. In an article from not long after the murders the amount of cars on the property was discussed. “Why the Rhoden Family Had So Many Cars”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/84433962

If so, possibly the perception that they were being cut out of profits or some other bad feelings could have developed.

Remember in the beginning when all those cars were hauled off, maybe LE researched the VIN #’s and that could have revealed corrupt dealings, or the mileage didn’t match the States monthly sales reports filed etc. Just thinking someone got caught up with and maybe somebody might have snitched to the IRS to keep out of trouble. The recent car sales before the massacre sparked my interest as a possible motive. JMHO

 

[Trudie]

"A scorpion tattoo in the gay community is a symbol that the wearer is HIV positive."
5th one down, SCORPION TATTOO MEANINGS
Scorpion Tattoo Meanings, Ideas, and Unique Designs
As I have stated before, if it isn't a butterfly or a ladybug tattoo, I am always wary of the person. It could just mean he is a tough guy, but I am sure his "tats"
was a point of contention with his Father.

I know.
I just don’t know when he got his scorpion tat. Do you? If he was 13, it was probably not symbolic of HIV.
Nor do I know if his father liked it.

 

[Trudie]

Bed bugs in Ohio reach ‘epidemic’ levels, exterminators say

This would make me behave so I’d be sleeping in my own bed.

 

[Trudie]

Dudly, was there ever a link regarding forensic evidence found? Tysm

 

[Dudly]

Bed bugs in Ohio reach ‘epidemic’ levels, exterminators say

This would make me behave so I’d be sleeping in my own bed.

Dayton, Ohio is one of the worse cities.