OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[Jayejayehilltop]

PUZZLES8 Some call it Alexa, I call it another gimic that invades my privacy. The secret is, there are no secrets if you use any tech whatsoever. Cell phones, email, texts, google, bing, ATM's, cable, GPS, drones w/high def-infrared cameras, directional listening devices, phone taps, credit cards, store membership, coupon redemption, time cards, trucker's weigh stations, license plate readers, library card, video surveillance,etc....we are all being tracked and watched, to some extent. (Someone is going to be awfully disappointed if they put a camera in my bathroom or really, really sick.) Good grief, I looked up a china pattern & my computer suddenly gets tons of ads for dishes! Data security, privacy and regulations associated with the collection of it, is a really big issue. We have all been a "lab rat" in some FB scheme. "Oh no," said the executives, "We are just trying to enhance the consumer experience!" or, "We are not spying, this is just target marketing."
Where is my rant heading....simply saying, by the end of the investigation LE knew how many times a day they flushed their toilet and the brand of bathroom paper they preferred. Throw all the distractions and "what if's" you want at this investigation. It will only be darts thrown on a whale of irrefutable information. ( NSA?) Oh well, I guess the defense has to try something.

I know i am so glad that when i was a child I decided to abide by the law. How can anyone actually believe they could get away with something like theses gruesome murders. The i believe it was called, the krueger dunning effect a few threads back, but it truly just flabergasted me.

 

[Betty P]

I took a look through the heavily redacted autopsy reports.

A few things were interesting, again the caveat – I am not a lawyer but I also don’t have a medical background either. This my non-medical impression of the autopsy reports.

I’m guessing there might have been a very bad fight as well as the gunshots at CRsr’s trailer.
CRsr had the longest autopsy report. It noted multiple bone fractures including vertebrae/spine. Don’t know if a fight or the bullets that caused the fractures.
There were “sutures” inside his abdomen (don’t know how recent), also blue surgical mesh “with adhesions” so I’m guessing the mesh wasn’t recent.
His intestines are “not oriented normally”.

His right lung was almost twice the size of the left. Right side looks like normal size, where did ½ of left lung go? Had he had lung cancer?
GR’s autopsy also noted fractures. All of the other’s Toxicology Reports came back on 5/20/2016. GR’s didn’t come back until 6/14/2016.
HHG’s autopsy report was the only one that noted dried blood on her skin (torso, face, upper extremities).
I like where RAISIN was going with the thought that CRsr or GR might have been able to return gunshots or got a good couple of punches in, maybe causing GGWIII to leave some blood (DNA) behind. I think I remember someone talking about a gunshot in the window glass, had it come from the inside? Also, I think I remember someone has talked about GGWIII being “missing” for several weeks after the murders. Maybe he had visible wounds that needed to heal?
Anyway, back to football!
All my speculation and conjecture.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...BCI/Pike-County-Final-Autopsies-REDACTED.aspx

It's tempting to reply "all of the above" to your ideas.

The details in news articles about the preliminary ARs said CR1 had defensive wounds on his forearm, causing a broken bone, so that accounts for one.

Rhoden family massacre: Autopsy reports indicate one victim was awake when fatally shot

Other broken bones were likely caused by fighting, kicking, stomping, etc. If CR1 was fighting Billy Wagner, he probably sustained a lot of injuries, sad to say. Also likely, JMO, that Billy W sustained some injuries, too, causing him to leave blood and DNA at the scene.

If CR1 was shot in the torso, could that have accounted for a missing portion of his lung? The other details do sound like previous hernia surgery.

Also interesting about GR's toxicology report. They may have requested additional testing for opioid-type drugs, so it would have taken longer.

ETA: Reading the (known) details of the AR's reminds me again that the Wagners are very twisted, dangerous psychopaths. No remorse, no conscience, no empathy, no concern about what is right or wrong, moral or immoral. Beyond rehabilitation or redemption. None of them should ever see the outside of a prison for the rest of their lives.

All jmo

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

JW..... Attorneys: William Mooney and Greg Meyers

AW..... Attorneys: Robert Krapnec and Mark Hunt

GWIII... Attorneys: Mark Collins and Thomas Hayes
(aka Billy) "Collins said investigators have labeled his client the mastermind of the
murder plot but said Wagner has a seventh-grade education and no serious criminal history."

GWIV.... Attorneys: Richard Nash, of Portsmouth, and Charles Knight, of Pomeroy.
(His attorneys sought bond noting no criminal history)

FW........Attorney: James Owen**

RN.........Attorney: Franklin Gerlach

What happened to John Kearson Clark?: "Attorney John Clark represents the Wagner family who were arrested Tuesday for the 2016 killing of eight members of the Rhoden family in southern Ohio. Clark says family members look forward to their day in court so they can clear their names. ."

**Is this the same attorney sans eyeglasses?
Attorney James Owen | Koenig & Long LLC

Clark was for the harassment from LE stuff, he’s not qualified for what they are in now

 

[Tiff23fr]

It's tempting to reply "all of the above" to your ideas.

The details in news articles about the preliminary ARs said CR1 had defensive wounds on his forearm, causing a broken bone, so that accounts for one.

Rhoden family massacre: Autopsy reports indicate one victim was awake when fatally shot

Other broken bones were likely caused by fighting, kicking, stomping, etc. If CR1 was fighting Billy Wagner, he probably sustained a lot of injuries, sad to say. Also likely, JMO, that Billy W sustained some injuries, too, causing him to leave blood and DNA at the scene.

If CR1 was shot in the torso, could that have accounted for a missing portion of his lung? The other details do sound like previous hernia surgery.

Also interesting about GR's toxicology report. They may have requested additional testing for opioid-type drugs, so it would have taken longer.

ETA: Reading the (known) details of the AR's reminds me again that the Wagners are very twisted, dangerous psychopaths. No remorse, no conscience, no empathy, no concern about what is right or wrong, moral or immoral. Beyond rehabilitation or redemption. None of them should ever see the outside of a prison for the rest of their lives.

All jmo

I think the words in this article echo your last paragraph. In going for the DP I believe Dewine and the state feel pretty confident in the evidence they have.

“If you don’t go after the death penalty in that case, a diabolical, coordinated series of murders, then you aren’t following the law,’’ McGinty said. “The costs cannot be a factor for a prosecutor. That’s up to the legislature to find the money. The legislature drew up the law. The prosecutor has to follow it.

“If you are the prosecutor, you have to ask yourself, ‘Is this the most god-awful crime there is?’ Believe me, it is not for every case. But for the most heinous crimes, the prosecutor has no choice.’’

Pike County murder cases underscore why fewer prosecutors pursue death penalty

 

[Caylee Advocate]

The killers new the LE would look at family first, that was in all the pre-planning, the shoes, the brass catchers, the false statements about all the family members on other web sites, trying to make it look like cartel everyone but the right ones.

Could you please provide a link where it says the W's purchased shoes like LM wore? The only mention I recall about LM's shoes was an article wherein he said LE got his old shoes from the trash *not verbatim* and I can't even find that article now. TIA.

Also, was it stated that "4" pairs were purchased? If so, where please? Again, thanks.

 

[IQuestion]

It's tempting to reply "all of the above" to your ideas.

The details in news articles about the preliminary ARs said CR1 had defensive wounds on his forearm, causing a broken bone, so that accounts for one.

Rhoden family massacre: Autopsy reports indicate one victim was awake when fatally shot

Other broken bones were likely caused by fighting, kicking, stomping, etc. If CR1 was fighting Billy Wagner, he probably sustained a lot of injuries, sad to say. Also likely, JMO, that Billy W sustained some injuries, too, causing him to leave blood and DNA at the scene.

If CR1 was shot in the torso, could that have accounted for a missing portion of his lung? The other details do sound like previous hernia surgery.

Also interesting about GR's toxicology report. They may have requested additional testing for opioid-type drugs, so it would have taken longer.

ETA: Reading the (known) details of the AR's reminds me again that the Wagners are very twisted, dangerous psychopaths. No remorse, no conscience, no empathy, no concern about what is right or wrong, moral or immoral. Beyond rehabilitation or redemption. None of them should ever see the outside of a prison for the rest of their lives.

All jmo

Thank you ALWAYS for your compassion for the victims and attention to details. (It has not gone unnoticed or unappreciated by many!) To me, if I had recent Hernia surgery, I would expect my toxicology to come back positive for opioids, not because I was an addict, but because it was prescribed by my physician as a part of my post surgical event. Speaking of which, despite my misgivings of opioid abuse, having gone through labor I am not adverse to screaming, "Bring me the best drugs you've got in this place!"

 

[Dudly]

Smart man...it’s great stuff. From cuts to diaper rashes, dry skin, splinters, all of the above. We also use drawing salve at my house too. People in this area think I’m crazy when I talk about it but it’s a southern thing and it’ll cure any infected skin and even draw an imbedded deep splinter out from under your skin. It smells like tar, but works like gold. Totally O/T LOL.

We always had drawing salve when I was a kid. Worked great for splinters. We had DMSO, too, which is basically what a lot of people called horse liniment. And, of course, the dreaded Mercuichrome...lol

 

[IQuestion]

It's tempting to reply "all of the above" to your ideas.

The details in news articles about the preliminary ARs said CR1 had defensive wounds on his forearm, causing a broken bone, so that accounts for one.

Rhoden family massacre: Autopsy reports indicate one victim was awake when fatally shot

Other broken bones were likely caused by fighting, kicking, stomping, etc. If CR1 was fighting Billy Wagner, he probably sustained a lot of injuries, sad to say. Also likely, JMO, that Billy W sustained some injuries, too, causing him to leave blood and DNA at the scene.

If CR1 was shot in the torso, could that have accounted for a missing portion of his lung? The other details do sound like previous hernia surgery.

Also interesting about GR's toxicology report. They may have requested additional testing for opioid-type drugs, so it would have taken longer.

ETA: Reading the (known) details of the AR's reminds me again that the Wagners are very twisted, dangerous psychopaths. No remorse, no conscience, no empathy, no concern about what is right or wrong, moral or immoral. Beyond rehabilitation or redemption. None of them should ever see the outside of a prison for the rest of their lives.

All jmo

duplicate post...sorry

 

[IQuestion]

It's tempting to reply "all of the above" to your ideas.

The details in news articles about the preliminary ARs said CR1 had defensive wounds on his forearm, causing a broken bone, so that accounts for one.

Rhoden family massacre: Autopsy reports indicate one victim was awake when fatally shot

Other broken bones were likely caused by fighting, kicking, stomping, etc. If CR1 was fighting Billy Wagner, he probably sustained a lot of injuries, sad to say. Also likely, JMO, that Billy W sustained some injuries, too, causing him to leave blood and DNA at the scene.

If CR1 was shot in the torso, could that have accounted for a missing portion of his lung? The other details do sound like previous hernia surgery.

Also interesting about GR's toxicology report. They may have requested additional testing for opioid-type drugs, so it would have taken longer.

ETA: Reading the (known) details of the AR's reminds me again that the Wagners are very twisted, dangerous psychopaths. No remorse, no conscience, no empathy, no concern about what is right or wrong, moral or immoral. Beyond rehabilitation or redemption. None of them should ever see the outside of a prison for the rest of their lives.

All jmo

triplicate post, so triple apologies.

 

[Dudly]

Also OT but I learned something from a patient's family from West Virginia. Weeks and weeks after the patient's son watched his mother's wound remain unchanged as I tried one doctor's order after another to heal it, I arrived one day to see the son had taken over the job. He used pine sap. The patient's wound healed in about a week. Later, I found pine sap works well on animal's wounds, too... at least on the shoulder of a horse gouged deeply with barbed wire.

"Pine trees ooze resin when they get damaged. The resin has antibacterial properties which prevent the damaged tree from getting infected. In this same way, pine resin can also be used to heal our wounds. In addition to being antiseptic, pine sap is also anti-inflammatory and its stickiness helps it close wounds."
https://www.google.com/search?q=pin...me..69i57j0.4495j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Honey will work, too...

 

[Betty P]

Thank you ALWAYS for your compassion for the victims and attention to details. (It has not gone unnoticed or unappreciated by many!) To me, if I had recent Hernia surgery, I would expect my toxicology to come back positive for opioids, not because I was an addict, but because it was prescribed by my physician as a part of my post surgical event. Speaking of which, despite my misgivings of opioid abuse, having gone through labor I am not adverse to screaming, "Bring me the best drugs you've got in this place!"

Thanks, that's very kind. It's the way I was raised, I guess.

It will be interesting to see what was in those autopsy reports, if much is revealed at the trials. I'm still not sure why they redacted so much of the information. I can see hiding info about the timelines and some details of the deaths, but not everything.

 

[Betty P]

I think the words in this article echo your last paragraph. In going for the DP I believe Dewine and the state feel pretty confident in the evidence they have.

“If you don’t go after the death penalty in that case, a diabolical, coordinated series of murders, then you aren’t following the law,’’ McGinty said. “The costs cannot be a factor for a prosecutor. That’s up to the legislature to find the money. The legislature drew up the law. The prosecutor has to follow it.

“If you are the prosecutor, you have to ask yourself, ‘Is this the most god-awful crime there is?’ Believe me, it is not for every case. But for the most heinous crimes, the prosecutor has no choice.’’

Pike County murder cases underscore why fewer prosecutors pursue death penalty

Tim McGinty is certainly right about this case. He was a pretty good judge and has probably seen it all.

 

[OhioBlues]

Are we allowed to discuss the tattoo/s of W4? My question would be regarding timing (not meaning) of the tattoo/s.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I took a look through the heavily redacted autopsy reports.

A few things were interesting, again the caveat – I am not a lawyer but I also don’t have a medical background either. This my non-medical impression of the autopsy reports.

I’m guessing there might have been a very bad fight as well as the gunshots at CRsr’s trailer.
CRsr had the longest autopsy report. It noted multiple bone fractures including vertebrae/spine. Don’t know if a fight or the bullets that caused the fractures.
There were “sutures” inside his abdomen (don’t know how recent), also blue surgical mesh “with adhesions” so I’m guessing the mesh wasn’t recent.
His intestines are “not oriented normally”.

His right lung was almost twice the size of the left. Right side looks like normal size, where did ½ of left lung go? Had he had lung cancer?
GR’s autopsy also noted fractures. All of the other’s Toxicology Reports came back on 5/20/2016. GR’s didn’t come back until 6/14/2016.
HHG’s autopsy report was the only one that noted dried blood on her skin (torso, face, upper extremities).
I like where RAISIN was going with the thought that CRsr or GR might have been able to return gunshots or got a good couple of punches in, maybe causing GGWIII to leave some blood (DNA) behind. I think I remember someone talking about a gunshot in the window glass, had it come from the inside? Also, I think I remember someone has talked about GGWIII being “missing” for several weeks after the murders. Maybe he had visible wounds that needed to heal?
Anyway, back to football!
All my speculation and conjecture.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...BCI/Pike-County-Final-Autopsies-REDACTED.aspx

Purely hypothecial and only my opinion, CR1 could have had abdominal trauma around the time of his parents separation. That trauma may or may not have been self inflicted and required medical intervention. Again, just my opinion and insight.

When I read the autopsies, I concluded the fractures in his vertebrae and arm were from bullets. IIRC, the unredacted prelim autopsies revealed he had been shot in the thorax (torso). A bullet traveling through the thoracic cavity could very likely fracture the spine. The same with the bullet to his arm. That most likely would have fractured one or both bones in his arm. I’m still personally undecided when it comes to CR1 being physically assaulted. Nine bullets to the body is extensive and would cause immense physical damage to the body. The number of bullet wounds alone would make someone appear to be battered. JMO.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Are we allowed to discuss the tattoo/s of W4? My question would be regarding timing (not meaning) of the tattoo/s.

I believe so. Just link an article or video at the arraignments with pics showing the tattoos .

 

[MittenScarpetta]

We always had drawing salve when I was a kid. Worked great for splinters. We had DMSO, too, which is basically what a lot of people called horse liniment. And, of course, the dreaded Mercuichrome...lol

LOL @ mercurochrome! My grandmother used to cover my mosquito bites with that stuff when I was a child. Mosquitoes loved me (they’d still do) and I would look like I had red polka dots from head to toe from granny’s doctorin’

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Thanks, that's very kind. It's the way I was raised, I guess.

It will be interesting to see what was in those autopsy reports, if much is revealed at the trials. I'm still not sure why they redacted so much of the information. I can see hiding info about the timelines and some details of the deaths, but not everything.

I think every detail will be released at trial. The injuries and complete lack of regard for human life on behalf of the murderers is going to be a very strong angle for the prosecution. I’m sad that the surviving family will have to see all of this and relive all of this again.

There has to be a reason so much was redacted in those autopsies. I can’t put my finger on it but I’m assuming it’s something that is relative to a successful prosecution. IMO, I do feel that there’s a lot that we don’t know and we will probably be stunned when details are released.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I think every detail will be released at trial. The injuries and complete lack of regard for human life on behalf of the murderers is going to be a very strong angle for the prosecution. I’m sad that the surviving family will have to see all of this and relive all of this again.

There has to be a reason so much was redacted in those autopsies. I can’t put my finger on it but I’m assuming it’s something that is relative to a successful prosecution. IMO, I do feel that there’s a lot that we don’t know and we will probably be stunned when details are released.

So do you think the killers took some kind of sick trophy before they left that night?

 

[Puzzles8]

Interesting.
Why is it in my mind that only 2 shell casings were found?

Maybe it was 2 different caliber of bullet rather than 2 different shell casings?
Forgive me as I don't know anything about firearms. Would the bullets remain in the body or would they exit out the other side?

 

[Puzzles8]

Also right lung is usually heavier, right lung has 3 lobes left 2 lobes- to make room for the heart. Former Nurse with memory issues but do remember that lol Hi guys been reading forever. Will post occasionally.

Thank you, I learned something tonight! I had always assumed they were a matched pair.
His right lung was 480 grams, the left was 260 grams. Do those numbers fall in line?