OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[RAISINISBACK]

I kinda got it from the two parent's FBs before they were shuttered, that she there a LOT. JW had photos of her all over the place. Some of HMR's photos of her, I'm pretty sure, were of her at DefFrm. There was never any animosity on their FBs that I saw, either. They had a nickname for her. Don't know where it came from but it was cute. Then, in the interviews he's done, especially the last one, where he said that S was planned, I saw a lot of truth in it, then the podcast lawyers mentioned visitation was going pretty smooth but may have been not as comfortable of late. I'm just thinking there is more to this whole thing.

The thing is visitation could have been going along smoothly until Jake made Hanna mad. Or until CH came along and put a stop to her being chummy with the ex. If there was no formal custody agreement in place Hanna could have just called Jake up and said don't come over, she's not going with you. I have a feeling things changed a lot after CG. Hanna didn't seem like the kind of person who was going to let control of her kids get away from her. She seemed pretty possessive of those kids and her right to decide their life. Something happened in January that changed everything and made the W's feel the only way out was murder. Custody could have changed dramatically also. After all we only have Jake's word that he had SW frequently or that there was a shared custody agreement or that he didn't pick her up the night he killed her mother.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree....
There has been discussion about 4 people that were planning to be at the various crime scenes the night of the murders. They all backed out last minute. Can someone help me remember who they were, which crime scene and their excuse for not arriving as planned?
TIA

Kendra was going to stay over night with Hanna but her boyfriend had a tooth ache so they bought some Orjel (sp?) and went home. Donald Stone was suppose to stay the night with Kenneth but instead he stayed the night at his girlfriends. Hannah Gilley's sister (MG) was going to stay the night with her but she missed the freeway exit and decided to go back home.
Kendra Rhoden: I could have been the ninth victim in Pike Co. family massacre


Ohio family massacre victim had $1k in cash strewn at his feet and was shot in the head | Daily Mail Online

 

[OhioBlues]

If he and S's mother's relationship, were an issue to family court, he'd not have gotten custody of her after the murders.

• They were all dead when he went to court so he went in uncontested. If the R's were alive then it would not have been so easy. JMO.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

If he and S's mother's relationship, were an issue to family court, he'd not have gotten custody of her after the murders.

I can’t recall which media outlet reported it but they said the family court judge was a Waggie shirt tail relative. Not in pike county but I think Adams County. I may be incorrect on the county. And I’ll try to find a link.

 

[Cool Cats]

I read on here somewhere someone saying Chris got his money from selling drugs but there is a good article by Chris Graves that details how else Chris made his money.

Excavation work, building decks, hauling gravel, work at BBL, they(Big Bear Lake Family Resort in Lucasville) buying cars from private sellers and at auctions then fixing them and reselling them.

chri s could buy a vehicle for $1,200 and fix it for a few hundred then resell it for $8000.

Why the Rhoden family had so many cars

 

[Willow Knight]

Thank you ColMustard I think 4 pairs of identical shoes were purchased for the SOLE PURPOSE
(excuse the pun, "sole" purpose...get it? Solely for new contributors.) of confusing investigators as to the number of individuals involved in the crime. Since investigators always look for shoe prints in order to identify the possible perps, as well as the number of perps involved, it makes sense. Remember Investigation 101: Once is an accident, two is a coincidence and three is a pattern....AND FOUR PAIRS OF IDENTICAL SHOES IS PREMEDITATION ON STEROIDS. (not screaming...just emphasis.) It is also an indication that all 4 of the W's walked (or planned to) on the property in commission of their attack. Can you imagine the shock investigators got when they were able to match up the purchase of 4 identical pairs of shoes to the W family? That had to be an AHA moment that left everyone shaking their heads in disbelief. IMO.

Powerful post, a jury should focus on your point of "It is also an indication that all 4 of the W's walked (or planned to) on the property in commission of their attack." Was having a hard time with who killed whom, this would really prove, to me, all four planned the murders. All equally guilty.

 

[pepper 34]

I agree with most everything except the opposite about who owed money. GW3 and AW didn't have a pot to pee in, neither had jobs or much income. They were the ones who had a record of theft and ripping off people, employers and businesses. The only way they would have gotten money for an investment of some sort with CR1 would be if FW fronted the cash. Even if true, why would CR1 need money from FW? That opens a completely different discussion...

OTOH, the Rhodens had jobs, some income from selling a little MJ. CR1 certainly could have made enough money from selling MJ to get together the down payment on DR's new home.

JMO

I don't think Chris Sr needed to or did approach FW for money either. It might have been that when Chris Sr (theoretically) entered into a business venture with the W's he only knew them on a social level and had no idea they had the shady past that you mentioned.
I also believe Chris Sr obtained the down payment for the new house legitimately. I really haven't tried to think through what the trouble was between the W's and the R's in any detailed way... (because there's no reliable information to go on, imo) ... it could have had nothing to do with a debt at all. But I just believe that there was trouble between Chris Sr and Wag3 which led to anger, then rage and hate on the W's part (Wag3 inspired.) ...and the desire for the W's to "get even" for whatever that trouble was. Just something that happened between those 2 men that caused Wag3 to begin contemplating that his life would be better and he would be happier if he knocked Chris Sr off. (sharing this info with Angela and his sons.) The main purpose of my comment was to express my belief that trouble was already there and on a high boil for quite some time before S and custody became an issue, imo. Once S and the custody issues came into play, the plan then expanded to include killing the whole family, jmo.
All speculation and opinion.

 

[Trudie]

I don't think Chris Sr needed to or did approach FW for money either. It might have been that when Chris Sr (theoretically) entered into a business venture with the W's he only knew them on a social level and had no idea they had the shady past that you mentioned.
I also believe Chris Sr obtained the down payment for the new house legitimately. I really haven't tried to think through what the trouble was between the W's and the R's in any detailed way... (because there's no reliable information to go on, imo) ... it could have had nothing to do with a debt at all. But I just believe that there was trouble between Chris Sr and Wag3 which led to anger, then rage and hate on the W's part (Wag3 inspired.) ...and the desire for the W's to "get even" for whatever that trouble was. Just something that happened between those 2 men that caused Wag3 to begin contemplating that his life would be better and he would be happier if he knocked Chris Sr off. (sharing this info with Angela and his sons.) The main purpose of my comment was to express my belief that trouble was already there and on a high boil for quite some time before S and custody became an issue, imo. Once S and the custody issues came into play, the plan then expanded to include killing the whole family, jmo.
All speculation and opinion.

I so agree with all of this. Didn’t Junk say he could tell us the motive in 2 seconds? That would be what, one, two syllable word?
Gotta remember, “custody played a role”. The forged docs’ revealed that. But to expand, “I could tell you......”, proves to me there is MORE. Soooooo.......two seconds. Hmmmm, GREED, ROBBERY, REVENGE. JMO

 

[Dudly]

The thing is visitation could have been going along smoothly until Jake made Hanna mad. Or until CH came along and put a stop to her being chummy with the ex. If there was no formal custody agreement in place Hanna could have just called Jake up and said don't come over, she's not going with you. I have a feeling things changed a lot after CG. Hanna didn't seem like the kind of person who was going to let control of her kids get away from her. She seemed pretty possessive of those kids and her right to decide their life. Something happened in January that changed everything and made the W's feel the only way out was murder. Custody could have changed dramatically also. After all we only have Jake's word that he had SW frequently or that there was a shared custody agreement or that he didn't pick her up the night he killed her mother.

JMO

BBM
And we can't ask her, or her mom, or her dad, or her two brothers, or her uncle or her dad's cousin....

 

[Trudie]

Where did they get that farm, diesel trucks, four wheelers, dirt bikes, trailers, money for trips to AK, nice clothing, a yard full of Little Tikes play toys, feed for all of those animals (they were in good condition), build two new barns, one a stock barn, and put up fencing? I don't see FW funding all of that.

Same for Rs. You can't buy, and build, all of that with an old backhoe, and a job at BBL doing repairs and building railings and docks. All kinds of cars, his kids had nice cars, nice clothing, puts down $30k cash on a home for his ex-wife (ya don't see that often, even if there are kids involved), and takes care of the loan on the rest...

I think they both were in biz together and got along, til they didn't.

A lot of articles SEEM to allude to “biz relationships”, IMO, remember? But, there’s no elaboration.

 

[kaykay543]

A lot of articles SEEM to allude to “biz relationships, IMO, remember? But, there’s no elaboration.

Imo it’s the drug business

 

[Trudie]

Imo it’s the drug business

Idk. Would it have not been phrased differently?

 

[pepper 34]

Where did they get that farm, diesel trucks, four wheelers, dirt bikes, trailers, money for trips to AK, nice clothing, a yard full of Little Tikes play toys, feed for all of those animals (they were in good condition), build two new barns, one a stock barn, and put up fencing? I don't see FW funding all of that.

Same for Rs. You can't buy, and build, all of that with an old backhoe, and a job at BBL doing repairs and building railings and docks. All kinds of cars, his kids had nice cars, nice clothing, puts down $30k cash on a home for his ex-wife (ya don't see that often, even if there are kids involved), and takes care of the loan on the rest...

I think they both were in biz together and got along, til they didn't.

Good to know about trips to Alaska. That answered a question I had. (When did the first, serious plan to move to Alaska come up? We can't possibly know that answer... but the answer is important imo.) If Hanna thought a real plan to go to Alaska was in the works, that could be exactly why trouble came up between Hanna and Jake over S even though they had been on friendly terms up until recently (reportedly.)
#1) Hanna had rejected Jake as husband material already...
...and #2, Jake might have been asking Hanna to sign at least shared custody of S over to him so he could take her along to Alaska on a trip the next time the Wags went.
It doesn't matter if that is required legally or not... he could have told Hanna it was required. He could have told her any number of lies. Hanna may have decided that was too risky. He might take S and go to Alaska and then she'd have trouble getting S back if he decided to stay. Iow... she could lose all control of her own child and it would take a lot of money to get S back again and it could feasibly take years. Custody horror stories are notorious, imo... such things can happen. I have wondered if the W's didn't begin planning to move to Alaska in the near future back while the R's were still alive. If so, Hanna might have begun to see Jake in a whole new light as someone who was plotting against her to take her child away from her and she planned to fight it all the way.
(No more "nice getting along" anymore at all.)
JMO.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

L


Bump

This Bump didn’t it come from the website that shut down.

 

[kaykay543]

Idk. Would it have not been phrased differently?

Imo they didn’t want to emphasize the drug aspect of the case. Mostly because they wanted people to come forward without fear of being busted for drugs. They even alluded to this in press conferences. The focus is a murder case; but imo drugs were also playing a big part.

 

[Trudie]

• They were all dead when he went to court so he went in uncontested. If the R's were alive then it would not have been so easy. JMO.

Idk. I have no idea what tricks, if any, JW had up his sleeves. IMO, a lot of people in a custody battle have a wealth of info, derogatory info, probably sensationalized, to present to the court. They need something to establish a change is necessary, for the benefit of the child.
All MOO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Good to know about trips to Alaska. That answered a question I had. (When did the first, serious plan to move to Alaska come up? We can't possibly know that answer... but the answer is important imo.) If Hanna thought a real plan to go to Alaska was in the works, that could be exactly why trouble came up between Hanna and Jake over S even though they had been on friendly terms up until recently (reportedly.)
#1) Hanna had rejected Jake as husband material already...
...and #2, Jake might have been asking Hanna to sign at least shared custody of S over to him so he could take her along to Alaska on a trip the next time the Wags went.
It doesn't matter if that is required legally or not... he could have told Hanna it was required. He could have told her any number of lies. Hanna may have decided that was too risky. He might take S and go to Alaska and then she'd have trouble getting S back if he decided to stay. Iow... she could lose all control of her own child and it would take a lot of money to get S back again and it could feasibly take years. Custody horror stories are notorious, imo... such things can happen. I have wondered if the W's didn't begin planning to move to Alaska in the near future back while the R's were still alive. If so, Hanna might have begun to see Jake in a whole new light as someone who was plotting against her to take her child away from her and she planned to fight it all the way.
(No more "nice getting along" anymore at all.)
JMO.

What you are saying makes a lot of sense. She could have panicked when she heard they planned to go to Alaska and asked to take SW.

A lot of people in the lower 48 view Alaska as being so remote it is almost a whole different country. That could have been Hanna's view. 4000 miles away may have looked to be too far for her to travel to get SW back if Jake took her and refused to return her. Especially since she didn't have a formal custody agreement through a court. And what if they went off grid after they arrived there. Alaska is huge and it could have seemed almost impossible in her mind to find her daughter in all that wilderness.

Maybe that is what changed?

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

• They were all dead when he went to court so he went in uncontested. If the R's were alive then it would not have been so easy. JMO.

Matters not, they can bring charges whether the mother is deceased or alive. It's very possible that they might could have brought charges against HMR's parents, had they been alive. I don't think there is a parental consent clause, in any state with consent laws, so, if that be the case for OH, a parent who gives consent to their minor, could be prosecuted for child abuse.

They could do the math in family court, prior to HMR's death. She got pregnant with S, around six weeks prior to age of consent, (around mid - Feb, 2013), after a relationship that started 8/27/2010, according to HMR's Twitter feed. As far as we know, that's the only time they had relations, well, til he thought he might be K's father. I'm not saying that it was the only time, but it's the only time that we have proof.

 

[pepper 34]

Imo it’s the drug business

I would think so, too, and I did for a good amount of time. I just hesitate now after hearing Gov. Dewine's words... "an undercurrent of drugs." So, for now, I'm just assuming that at least Chris Sr and Wag3 had business dealings at times but no necessarily always involving drugs. I've stated elsewhere that they may have been in business together but I don't believe that has ever been stated as fact from any MSM source. And, as you can see that business theory and this whole paragraph is JMO and subject to change as new information becomes available. New information would be like a cool drink of water in the desert at this point.

 

[rsd1200]

Good to know about trips to Alaska. That answered a question I had. (When did the first, serious plan to move to Alaska come up? We can't possibly know that answer... but the answer is important imo.) If Hanna thought a real plan to go to Alaska was in the works, that could be exactly why trouble came up between Hanna and Jake over S even though they had been on friendly terms up until recently (reportedly.)
#1) Hanna had rejected Jake as husband material already...
...and #2, Jake might have been asking Hanna to sign at least shared custody of S over to him so he could take her along to Alaska on a trip the next time the Wags went.
It doesn't matter if that is required legally or not... he could have told Hanna it was required. He could have told her any number of lies. Hanna may have decided that was too risky. He might take S and go to Alaska and then she'd have trouble getting S back if he decided to stay. Iow... she could lose all control of her own child and it would take a lot of money to get S back again and it could feasibly take years. Custody horror stories are notorious, imo... such things can happen. I have wondered if the W's didn't begin planning to move to Alaska in the near future back while the R's were still alive. If so, Hanna might have begun to see Jake in a whole new light as someone who was plotting against her to take her child away from her and she planned to fight it all the way.
(No more "nice getting along" anymore at all.)
JMO.

You very well could be right. I've thought about that, but, the way they did the AK thing was really hodge podge, and then, after seeing the interview dates, I believe the dream of a beloved vacation spot, became a forced reality. As in, we're getting out of Dodge. Out of site, possibly out of mind. Then they came back in early spring of 2018. So either they didn't like it there, after all, or they couldn't make a go of it, which leads me back to FW not funding their every whim, nor their getaway.