OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[Trudie]

Hadn't both AW and GW111 recently lost a father. I'd imagine they were needed by their moms.

Maybe they'd let their guard down enough to feel safe coming around thinking if LE had evidence they'd already have been arrested.

I THINK AW’s dad died during her AK respite.

 

[Trudie]

Self delete

 

[Trudie]

I so agree with all of this. Didn’t Junk say he could tell us the motive in 2 seconds? That would be what, one, two syllable word?
Gotta remember, “custody played a role”. The forged docs’ revealed that. But to expand, “I could tell you......”, proves to me there is MORE. Soooooo.......two seconds. Hmmmm, GREED, ROBBERY, REVENGE. JMO

FYI, the two second comment was made PRIOR to the arrests.

 

[rsd1200]

Hadn't both AW and GW111 recently lost a father. I'd imagine they were needed by their moms.

Maybe they'd let their guard down enough to feel safe coming around thinking if LE had evidence they'd already have been arrested.

GW(Bob) passed in 8/2017 and RN was divorced from AW's father and takes care of AW's grandmother at her home (see link). I think that the four Ws moved into her deceased father's home, when they came back to OH. AW's father died in 11/2017.

Pike County murders: 2nd grandmother posts bond, released from jail

 

[Trudie]

Iirc, around count 18 or 19, the alleged surveillance began in 2014. Soooooooo, did the W’s give the R’s “time” to satisfy something? Then, at the close of 2015 decide, “they’ve had enough time”? Then, in January 2016 really begin the plot? JW knowing something serious “might” happen, went all out to get his kid? IMO, if this was all about custody, why did it take 2 years +/-?

All MOO

 

[Trudie]

Most of our nearby jails are 65/35, I'd hope, to the positive as far as guards. There's always the ones who want to find a reason to shut down the phones at Christmas or, near elections, or some such thing as that. There are some local jails that are really, really, bad though. However, if they're responsible for putting an inmate in such a place where they can be killed, purposefully, then they're no better than the inmate they helped kill. They're a murderer.

I think in my vicinity, problems are few, in the county jails.
The staff know they are being filmed. I bet they have their “moments”.
They know their job is to keep the inmate safe & secure so he can make court appearances & face charges.
So much easier since the inmates aren’t going to the library, the gym, the dining hall & yard, like in the Big House. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, I agree that an early move to Alaska was forced upon them but they still could have had a more leisurely plan in the works earlier in time. If they were able to erect those barns / out buildings on the property, for example.... that might not mean they were settling in at all. They may have finagled some deal where they got the materials very cheaply (gee, how could they manage to do that?) ...and yet it would make for a higher profit when selling the property. They may have been investing in the place so they could sell at a big enough profit to make Alaska a reality by their own planned-out time table iow... and then got whipped into chaotic, confused and messy moving day action after they came under the old laser focus.

But remember, they owed money on that one barn, and it stalled the sale. I think they whatever they were up to, had dissolved, with whoever they were up to it with, and they started running dry on funds.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I so agree with all of this. Didn’t Junk say he could tell us the motive in 2 seconds? That would be what, one, two syllable word?
Gotta remember, “custody played a role”. The forged docs’ revealed that. But to expand, “I could tell you......”, proves to me there is MORE Soooooo.......two seconds. Hmmmm, GREED, ROBBERY, REVENGE. JMO

Something I would like everyone to think about and give me your theory, one of the sleuth members had posted a while back about Billy and Angela was separated and got back together around the time the Rhoden s where murder, what if the main problem was that caused all the trouble was that Billy tried something on Hanna and George's exwife, IMO but that would cause the girls to leave the brothers and mommy would leave daddy, DeWine said it would be crazy when the truth comes out and he's already said child custody! Just my options

I so agree with all of this. Didn’t Junk say he could tell us the motive in 2 seconds? That would be what, one, two syllable word?
Gotta remember, “custody played a role”. The forged docs’ revealed that. But to expand, “I could tell you......”, proves to me there is MORE. Soooooo.......two seconds. Hmmmm, GREED, ROBBERY, REVENGE. JMO

 

[Trudie]

Something I would like everyone to think about and give me your theory, one of the sleuth members had posted a while back about Billy and Angela was separated and got back together around the time the Rhoden s where murder, what if the main problem was that caused all the trouble was that Billy tried something on Hanna and George's exwife, IMO but that would cause the girls to leave the brothers and mommy would leave daddy, DeWine said it would be crazy when the truth comes out and he's already said child custody! Just my options

Hey~in this chaotic mess, who knows what really happened? I have never read or otherwise heard what you suggest in your THEORY. Good to think outside the box, imo.
But, why would this theory lead to shooting 8? Or even more had the others not had issues preventing their overnight stay?
Is it confirmed A & G3 were actually separated?

 

[Trudie]

Kendra was going to stay over night with Hanna but her boyfriend had a tooth ache so they bought some Orjel (sp?) and went home. Donald Stone was suppose to stay the night with Kenneth but instead he stayed the night at his girlfriends. Hannah Gilley's sister (MG) was going to stay the night with her but she missed the freeway exit and decided to go back home.
Kendra Rhoden: I could have been the ninth victim in Pike Co. family massacre


Ohio family massacre victim had $1k in cash strewn at his feet and was shot in the head | Daily Mail Online

Read this again~is it not just crazy so many intended to sleep over that fateful night? Even crazier, lives were saved over a toothache, missed exit & a girlfriend. JMO

 

[Trudie]

I don't believe JW would have received shared or full custody if he went to court. He is charged with a sex crime against HR when she was a minor.

HR could have pointed that out to the judge and I think that Ohio law would have prevented JW from having any custody. Also, the judge is a mandated reporter so he would been required to inform the authorities and JW could have gone to jail. The R's may have told the W's upfront that if JW filed then they would report JW to the court.

JMO. MOO,

The Judge ruled for him to get S, after the murders:

He was granted temporary custody of Sophia on May 4, 2016, in what the judge said was the "best interests of the child."

Suspect in killings of daughter's mother and family sought custody just 6 days after the murders

 

[Trudie]

Matters not, they can bring charges whether the mother is deceased or alive. It's very possible that they might could have brought charges against HMR's parents, had they been alive. I don't think there is a parental consent clause, in any state with consent laws, so, if that be the case for OH, a parent who gives consent to their minor, could be prosecuted for child abuse.

They could do the math in family court, prior to HMR's death. She got pregnant with S, around six weeks prior to age of consent, (around mid - Feb, 2013), after a relationship that started 8/27/2010, according to HMR's Twitter feed. As far as we know, that's the only time they had relations, well, til he thought he might be K's father. I'm not saying that it was the only time, but it's the only time that we have proof.

Was she dating JW when she was 12-13?

 

[rsd1200]

Is a doctor not required to report pregnancy of a minor?
Or the hospital that delivers the child?

I'm not sure if they are required to report in Ohio or not but I think that they are in some states. However, here's a list of mandatory reporters, and it seems no one thought to report. Maybe they weren't seen by anyone much other than some church folks, teachers, and her doc. Clergy, teachers and doctors are all mandatory reporters though. I'd say it's the culture here. Her parents were 16 when they married, FR was 16 or 17 when he and CRob had their child, dating young, marrying young, and having babies young is sometimes generational too.

ODJFS Online | Office of Families and Children

 

[Trudie]

I don't believe JW would have received shared or full custody if he went to court. He is charged with a sex crime against HR when she was a minor.

HR could have pointed that out to the judge and I think that Ohio law would have prevented JW from having any custody. Also, the judge is a mandated reporter so he would been required to inform the authorities and JW could have gone to jail. The R's may have told the W's upfront that if JW filed then they would report JW to the court.

JMO. MOO,

How did it go unnoticed over the course of her pregnancy & the birth of S? Do you know if OH reports teen/child pregnancies to LE or to a social service organization?
I’m trying to find info on OH laws on this.
Rsd pointed out HR conceived appx 6 weeks before age of consent, if I read her post correctly. So, her doctor would know, I think. Well, I’d hope he can perform basic math.
JMO

 

[Trudie]

I'm not sure if they are required to report in Ohio or not but I think that they are in some states. However, here's a list of mandatory reporters, and it seems no one thought to report. Maybe they weren't seen by anyone much other than some church folks, teachers, and her doc. Clergy, teachers and doctors are all mandatory reporters though. I'd say it's the culture here. Her parents were 16 when they married, FR was 16 or 17 when he and CRob had their child, dating young, marrying young, and having babies young is sometimes generational too.

ODJFS Online | Office of Families and Children

I did find some info for other states, often the pregnant child is removed from the family home & the custodial parent faces charges. None pertaining to OH, so I did not link.
You’re right, it MIGHT be a generational thing to start a family at a young age.
I recall reading JW stating it was a “planned pregnancy”.

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Good to know about trips to Alaska. That answered a question I had. (When did the first, serious plan to move to Alaska come up? We can't possibly know that answer... but the answer is important imo.) If Hanna thought a real plan to go to Alaska was in the works, that could be exactly why trouble came up between Hanna and Jake over S even though they had been on friendly terms up until recently (reportedly.)
#1) Hanna had rejected Jake as husband material already...
...and #2, Jake might have been asking Hanna to sign at least shared custody of S over to him so he could take her along to Alaska on a trip the next time the Wags went.
It doesn't matter if that is required legally or not... he could have told Hanna it was required. He could have told her any number of lies. Hanna may have decided that was too risky. He might take S and go to Alaska and then she'd have trouble getting S back if he decided to stay. Iow... she could lose all control of her own child and it would take a lot of money to get S back again and it could feasibly take years. Custody horror stories are notorious, imo... such things can happen. I have wondered if the W's didn't begin planning to move to Alaska in the near future back while the R's were still alive. If so, Hanna might have begun to see Jake in a whole new light as someone who was plotting against her to take her child away from her and she planned to fight it all the way.
(No more "nice getting along" anymore at all.)
JMO.

They had been talking about moving to Alaska for 11 years. They had gone up to fish and visit with friends 3 times before they moved there.

Their pastor in Minford Ohio transferred to a Baptist Church in Seward Alaska and the Pastor's son, who was a childhood playmate of Jake and George 4, is the Pastor of a Church in Kenai Alaska. The Wagners visited the son's Alaskan church when they lived there.

Pike County murders: Alaska pastor says Ohio family of interest attended church Sunday

 

[rsd1200]

Something I would like everyone to think about and give me your theory, one of the sleuth members had posted a while back about Billy and Angela was separated and got back together around the time the Rhoden s where murder, what if the main problem was that caused all the trouble was that Billy tried something on Hanna and George's exwife, IMO but that would cause the girls to leave the brothers and mommy would leave daddy, DeWine said it would be crazy when the truth comes out and he's already said child custody! Just my options

I'd not rule it out at this point. I think the two girls got on pretty good. What if that is the case, and they thought that no one would believe them? HMR doesn't tell anyone at home, for fear of what might happen should her father find out. Toward the end, when the custody issue strikes up a little hotter, she tells JW, and lets him know that he can either back off, or she'll spill the beans on G3 and he'll not see S at all. JW tells G3. Maybe it was more than just an advance? That's jail time for sure. If an advance was made on TB too... Just theorizing off your post. I've no idea if any of this happened at all.

 

[Trudie]

They had been talking about Alaska for 11 years. They had gone up to fish and visit with friends 3 times before they moved there. Their pastor in Minford Ohio transferred to a Baptist Church in Alaska. The Wagners visited his Alaskan church when they lived there.

Pike County murders: Alaska pastor says Ohio family of interest attended church Sunday

Hey CC, I was just getting ready to post this very link.
Their desire to live in AK seems to not be related to the birth of S. If this is accurate. MOO

 

[Trudie]

I'd not rule it out at this point. I think the two girls got on pretty good. What if that is the case, and they thought that no one would believe them? HMR doesn't tell anyone at home, for fear of what might happen should her father find out. Toward the end, when the custody issue strikes up a little hotter, she tells JW, and lets him know that he can either back off, or she'll spill the beans on G3 and he'll not see S at all. JW tells G3. Maybe it was more than just an advance? That's jail time for sure. If an advance was made on TB too... Just theorizing off your post. I've no idea if any of this happened at all.

Oh, I can’t go here....not before bed, lol.
It’s so hard to say.
We have to remember, according to the indictments, the hacking & other surveillance, tampering activities started in 2014.
I believe July, 2014. If anyone has the indictment handy, maybe post that section, for reference. Please

what the hell happened prior to 07/2014 that required the W’s to begin hacking the Rs? IMO, that’s where the motive began. Any idea? Anyone?

Baby S was appx 8 mos, in 07/2014

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Hey CC, I was just getting ready to post this very link.
Their desire to live in AK seems to not be related to the birth of S. If this is accurate. MOO

Yes, and I (my 2 cents) do think it's possible ONE reason Jake wanted full custody was to be able to move up there and take Sophie with him, which of course is exactly what he did.