OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[Starling]

The case is in Adams County Common Pleas.

Thank you! It is still there, so not sealed. 35 exam is the mental health ev. George's lawyer filed for Tabitha to take. The Wagner's are the seediest of them all.

 

[IQuestion]

You won’t be seeing any gory photos if that’s what you’re anxiously anticipating

SLEUTHINSLEUTHER bbm Do you mean "people outside" of LE, coroner, prep staff, the judge, the jury, the attorneys, the coroner, photographers, camera men, paramedics, crime scene investigators, transport personnel, mortuary workers and members of 48+ agencies that were part of this investigation. I think the "anxious anticipation" is not something that should be attributed to the public at large ...rather the anxious anticipation of gory photos should rest solely on the slumped shoulders of the Wagner's (and accomplice grandmas). Picking and choosing what the public should hear and see only produces more suspicion on a process (and individuals) already under increased scrutiny. So sad for all the people who had to walk through those horrific crime scenes...
it must have seemed like a war zone. I am not saying it should be broadcast on TV...but there should be a resource center for the press (family) to access. I would think that is their right.
This is My Opinion.... Why is it we have no problem showing the aftermath of a terrorist attack on the news, magazines and internet... the public has managed to handle those disclosures??

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I disagree. If the evidence is so compelling that a conviction is a definite, the W's lawyers will request a plea deal for LWOP.
I think it will be accepted due to trial costs and expedience. The W's lawyers will have had a "win" due to getting the DP off the table, it won't be considered a loss for them. It would not surprise me if the W's lawyers would request evidence be sealed with the plea agreement. That way the public will never know just how terrible the crimes were and the Ws somewhat "save face".

Dudley,

In each State Constitution there is a provision for distinct and separate powers. Among those powers the Legislative branch writes the law AND by virtue of the state coffers allocates funding from statewide resources to fund the enforcement of such law.

(And I’m going to add this is VERY simplified)

By virtue of the process, the entire State of Ohio may be compelled to fund every penny expended in these trials. Just as they may have in the past.

If I remember right Franklin County Ohio is feeling the same pressure to a lesser degree. But just for the simple reason of the cost of 4 trials, it is bad public policy to accept a plea. It negates the detergent to the next 4, or 5,10 or a gang in any Ohio community, big or small, to truly consider the death penalty before slaughtering 8,20 or a hundred people.

I don’t believe the AG or any prosecutor made the decision lightly to charge death penalty specs, but the circumstances were there and this idea of hillbilly justice must stop.

I don’t pretend to understand the mindset of the Waggies, not one of them. None of us knows at this point just how violent and evil the plan actually was. There are however a couple of things that can occur. One being that a single Juror may not be able to vote for the death penalty. Even though each must swear they can do just that when chosen to serve.

It is part of the process and the Waggies have been provided DP publicly paid attorneys to do the best job possible to find them innocent, not guilty or an acquittal. Most importantly these certified defenders will do everything possible to protect the Waggies rights.


I just read that Pike County has to date expended between $500,000.00 to $600,000.00 on the Investigation. That figure does not include BCI, other counties, the Office of the Attorney General, or the Feds. AG, now Governor DEWine said tens of thousands of man hours have been expended in this investigation. It’s untrackable he said.

IMO using Pike as the only comparison the State has already spent millions of dollars for staff, testing, per firm and other expenses I can only speculate. Travel to 10 States especially Alaska where hotels in Kenai at government rates are $89.00 to $258.00 per night depending on season. Plane tickets from Chicago to ANC can range from $600 TO $1,500 also depending on airline and time of year. Rental cars. $60 to $150.00 per day depending on summer or winter. Meals average $10 for breakfast to almost $16 for lunch and dinner $22 up. This has NOT been a cheap crime to investigate.

Let the process run it’s course just as it has for the other men and women on death row in Ohio. To do otherwise would be to show favoritism based on an economic basis alone.

The Waggies could have stopped all of this at any point up until the first punch thrown at CRSR, or the second prior to the first trigger pulled. They alone as a group, if found guilty, are responsible.

They own, if found guilty, sole responsibility for every charge and every dollar expended to investigate the crime, prosecute it and to defend it. Sadly killing 8 people for any reason violates the law, basic humanity and so many morals and ethical considerations I don’t want to go down that road.


By murdering 16 year old Christopher Rhoden Jr., they denied that young man of a projected 60 years of life. As a democracy we need to think about that. 60 years, he will never be married, never walk for high school graduation, never have a child, never own a home or anything any of us take very much for granted.

None of the Rhodens deserved to die. And dead they cannot seek justice, the living must do it for them.

In my opinion

 

[IQuestion]

I hope I’m doing this quote thing correctly. I’m a long time lurker, and just recently started posting.

Where I grew up is in the deep coal fields of WV. Families that participate in “hillbilly justice” are taught that their whole lives. It’s a very poor area since the coal mines shut down. People take pride in their families, and often stick together during hard times and perceived wrongs. I myself feel that way about my family, but we’d not be likely to go the HBJ route. Regardless, I’d NEVER kill an entire family.

I think the custody is a big part of it. However, it’s not all. I have no idea if it will ever come to light, but there’s other reasons adding fuel to the fire. I think jealousy played a part. I think possibly money played a part. For instance, if there was an unpaid debt to the Ws from the Rs. I imagine there’s more to it, but those are the things I think about. They took any perceived wrong to any member of the family as a slight on their entire family. That’s how they stuck together. You do NOT go against the family in HBJ. That’s why I don’t think any of the Ws will roll over on each other. I’ve seen HBJ a lot in my life, even to an extent of murder. But, never on this scale. I’m still shocked at what the Ws did. I think their pride was a huge factor.

I’d feel differently in an area that wasn’t country and on hard times. This area (I don’t live all that far from Pike Co) will never truly change. We “hillbillies” have spent our lives being made fun of and treated like we don’t matter. That’s a big reason the family is important. It’s an Appalachian or cultural thing, I think. That’s how I feel. Please understand that this is all JMO and observations.

STAREYES (Hoping you would come back! ) Thank you immensely for your explanation of (paraphrasing) "slight against any member is seen as a slight on an entire family." Would that "slight" also involve the preservation of entitlement and reputation? Does one family (en masse) decide how, when and where to enact H-B-J or does one person (father, brother etc) make the decision and everyone in the immediate family just follows along? I'm a little confused on why one brother availed himself of the court system to get custody and the other not use the court system for the same goal? Apparently the use of "legal process" is a hit and miss process left to the discretion of the abuser?
Many groups in this beautiful country have felt marginalized, put down or excluded...I always say, "same hand, just different fingers."
I think this quote by J.D. Vance is profound:
I believe that I'm a hillbilly in my values and in my attitudes, and I don't want to lose that. I think it's possible to maintain a big chunk of that identity so long as you're self-reflective and meaningful about it.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I hope I’m doing this quote thing correctly. I’m a long time lurker, and just recently started posting.

Where I grew up is in the deep coal fields of WV. Families that participate in “hillbilly justice” are taught that their whole lives. It’s a very poor area since the coal mines shut down. People take pride in their families, and often stick together during hard times and perceived wrongs. I myself feel that way about my family, but we’d not be likely to go the HBJ route. Regardless, I’d NEVER kill an entire family.

I think the custody is a big part of it. However, it’s not all. I have no idea if it will ever come to light, but there’s other reasons adding fuel to the fire. I think jealousy played a part. I think possibly money played a part. For instance, if there was an unpaid debt to the Ws from the Rs. I imagine there’s more to it, but those are the things I think about. They took any perceived wrong to any member of the family as a slight on their entire family. That’s how they stuck together. You do NOT go against the family in HBJ. That’s why I don’t think any of the Ws will roll over on each other. I’ve seen HBJ a lot in my life, even to an extent of murder. But, never on this scale. I’m still shocked at what the Ws did. I think their pride was a huge factor.

I’d feel differently in an area that wasn’t country and on hard times. This area (I don’t live all that far from Pike Co) will never truly change. We “hillbillies” have spent our lives being made fun of and treated like we don’t matter. That’s a big reason the family is important. It’s an Appalachian or cultural thing, I think. That’s how I feel. Please understand that this is all JMO and observations.

I have as much respect for hillbillies as I do for my neighbors.

And I don’t think this can be viewed as simple hillbilly justice. Hbj May be stealing tires or small crimes. Stuffing potatoes into a gas tank. Small annoying stuff.

Murdering 8 people is at the top of gang type crime. And maybe the Waggies took on a gang mentality.

I don’t think hbj could ever defend the thinking that people would accept the murders and life would just go on. Most people I have met and known from that area and life are good God fearing people who I’ve shared meals with after just meeting them. The Waggies evil entitlement goes far deeper than any hillbilly justice I have known.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

SLEUTHINSLEUTHER bbm Do you mean "people outside" of LE, coroner, prep staff, the judge, the jury, the attorneys, the coroner, photographers, camera men, paramedics, crime scene investigators, transport personnel, mortuary workers and members of 48+ agencies that were part of this investigation. I think the "anxious anticipation" is not something that should be attributed to the public at large ...rather the anxious anticipation of gory photos should rest solely on the slumped shoulders of the Wagner's (and accomplice grandmas). Picking and choosing what the public should hear and see only produces more suspicion on a process (and individuals) already under increased scrutiny. So sad for all the people who had to walk through those horrific crime scenes...
it must have seemed like a war zone. I am not saying it should be broadcast on TV...but there should be a resource center for the press (family) to access. I would think that is their right.
This is My Opinion.... Why is it we have no problem showing the aftermath of a terrorist attack on the news, magazines and internet... the public has managed to handle those disclosures??

They will Be exhibits at trial. Be patient. It’s not what many of us are waiting for. We want to understand this crime. Photos are a very small portion of it.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

So this was more than likely an older exam, when him and his ex were fighting over custody? I recall reading that at some point. If the records are gone - did someone request them to be sealed? I'm just thinking out loud.

The request for a mental exam was filed after he was arrested but has since been withdrawn. Unfortunately although many of us on here saw it, it is no longer there to see. I am not sure if Mittens or Betty or some of the others may have gotten a screen shot.

JMO

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

Thank you! It is still there, so not sealed. 35 exam is the mental health ev. George's lawyer filed for Tabitha to take. The Wagner's are the seediest of them all.

In Ohio Law, the county in Ohio, which had jurisdiction in the decision of GW4 and T's divorce,
will always hear matters concerning this divorce.

 

[Cool Cats]

Is there a link you can share about this being jail protocol?

As I said in my post, it was someone on this thread some time back who mentioned it. They did not provide a link so we can't know the validity. But I will look up the jail protocol for inmates skyping ie..communicating with their kids. If I find this information I will post it for you.

 

[Cool Cats]

I didn't think GW4's Pretrial had happened yet. Do you mind posting the link?

Hey loomis. I apologize. I meant Preliminary hearing not Pretrial. His---GW4's ---Pretrial hearing is scheduled for January 9th.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I disagree. If the evidence is so compelling that a conviction is a definite, the W's lawyers will request a plea deal for LWOP.
I think it will be accepted due to trial costs and expedience. The W's lawyers will have had a "win" due to getting the DP off the table, it won't be considered a loss for them. It would not surprise me if the W's lawyers would request evidence be sealed with the plea agreement. That way the public will never know just how terrible the crimes were and the Ws somewhat "save face".

Fortunately there are other substantive reasons for not accepting a plea. Offered or not not one tidbit of consideration will Be ever viiced to give the Waggies any amount of saving face. That would be career suicide by every one involved. And the crime itself? I think people should protect their kids. But the heinous acts committed against the 8 Rhodens will be public. Each in their own way is prepared for it.

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

As I said in my post, it was someone on this thread some time back who mentioned it. They did not provide a link so we can't know the validity. But I will look up the jail protocol for inmates skyping ie..communicating with their kids. If I find this information I will post it for you.

All procedures are covered under Chapter 341 of the Ohio Revised Code. Each Ohio county in
Ohio is represented by a county sheriff and each Ohio county sheriff is responsible for his/her
own inmates. Pike County, Ohio doesn't have a jail. Each inmate from Pike County, Ohio is
assigned to another county jail and must follow that sheriff's rules and regulations. The jail
in my area is the Lucas County, Ohio Jail. There are approximately 10 land telephones with
screens for the inmates to schedule and reserve a time to make telephone calls. All Sheriffs
must follow the Ohio Revised Code Guildlines.

 

[Cool Cats]

All procedures are covered under Chapter 341 of the Ohio Revised Code. Each Ohio county in
Ohio is represented by a county sheriff and each Ohio county sheriff is responsible for his/her
own inmates. Pike County, Ohio doesn't have a jail. Each inmate from Pike County, Ohio is
assigned to another county jail and must follow that sheriff's rules and regulations. The jail
in my area is the Lucas County, Ohio Jail. There are approximately 10 land telephones with
screens for the inmates to schedule and reserve a time to make telephone calls. All Sheriffs
must follow the Ohio Revised Code Guildlines.

Thankx. What we were wondering about is communication with minors. A poster awhile back said that the children of JW and GW4 would get to communicate with them on a limited regular basis through a video chat, as opposed to actually visiting them in person. (But not confirmed, no link.)

JW and GW4 have not been convicted and thus have some right to communicate with their children, but it's not my business and not my place and would be very inappropriate of me to try to find out about JW and GW4's ongoing relationship with their kids.

So for that reason I'm out.....(of this discussion topic.)

 

[StarEyes]

STAREYES (Hoping you would come back! ) Thank you immensely for your explanation of (paraphrasing) "slight against any member is seen as a slight on an entire family." Would that "slight" also involve the preservation of entitlement and reputation? Does one family (en masse) decide how, when and where to enact H-B-J or does one person (father, brother etc) make the decision and everyone in the immediate family just follows along? I'm a little confused on why one brother availed himself of the court system to get custody and the other not use the court system for the same goal? Apparently the use of "legal process" is a hit and miss process left to the discretion of the abuser?
Many groups in this beautiful country have felt marginalized, put down or excluded...I always say, "same hand, just different fingers."
I think this quote by J.D. Vance is profound:
I believe that I'm a hillbilly in my values and in my attitudes, and I don't want to lose that. I think it's possible to maintain a big chunk of that identity so long as you're self-reflective and meaningful about it.

It’s different for every family. I wonder if HMR living with the Ws, then leaving their home, was a perceived wrong. All in itself. The family grew close to her, taking her in as family. She left and “abandoned” them. That could play a factor. It would perhaps be seen as someone turning their back on their family. The living situation made them closer to her than if she had never lived there.

HBJ can be all because of 1 person in the family. It’s seen as you slap one person, you’ve slapped their whole family. They act as a unit. Everyone is enmeshed and it’s not a bond that breaks easily. I don’t see much HBJ now. I’m in an area where it’s not as common. I would go to the mat for my family, but they’d never expect me to. In a family with HBJ, it’s EXPECTED of you. Growing up, you just knew which families acted that way and you tried to steer clear and keep on their good side. They protect the family name. I think that pride really played a big part in the Ws decision. I also think they saw HMR as betraying them. When her own family took her in and supported her decisions, the Ws saw it as the Rs betraying them. The whole family. It’s very Hatfield & McCoys.

Those are merely MOO. Without knowing their actual reasons, it’s impossible to say exactly why they reacted so violently.

 

[StarEyes]

I have as much respect for hillbillies as I do for my neighbors.

And I don’t think this can be viewed as simple hillbilly justice. Hbj May be stealing tires or small crimes. Stuffing potatoes into a gas tank. Small annoying stuff.

Murdering 8 people is at the top of gang type crime. And maybe the Waggies took on a gang mentality.

I don’t think hbj could ever defend the thinking that people would accept the murders and life would just go on. Most people I have met and known from that area and life are good God fearing people who I’ve shared meals with after just meeting them. The Waggies evil entitlement goes far deeper than any hillbilly justice I have known.

I do agree that it was extreme. Most HBJ is small things. I’ve witnessed some vicious fights over it. I know of a few murders due to it, but they can’t be proven. If you aim to protect your family, even if you’ve moved, you have to mind your business. I always kept the few families I know on my better side. The Ws took it to a massive unusual extreme. It is a type of gang mentality. The majority of us “hillbillies” are kind, generous and try to be understanding. The HBJ thing is NOT as common as it once was. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

It’s different for every family. I wonder if HMR living with the Ws, then leaving their home, was a perceived wrong. All in itself. The family grew close to her, taking her in as family. She left and “abandoned” them. That could play a factor. It would perhaps be seen as someone turning their back on their family. The living situation made them closer to her than if she had never lived there.

HBJ can be all because of 1 person in the family. It’s seen as you slap one person, you’ve slapped their whole family. They act as a unit. Everyone is enmeshed and it’s not a bond that breaks easily. I don’t see much HBJ now. I’m in an area where it’s not as common. I would go to the mat for my family, but they’d never expect me to. In a family with HBJ, it’s EXPECTED of you. Growing up, you just knew which families acted that way and you tried to steer clear and keep on their good side. They protect the family name. I think that pride really played a big part in the Ws decision. I also think they saw HMR as betraying them. When her own family took her in and supported her decisions, the Ws saw it as the Rs betraying them. The whole family. It’s very Hatfield & McCoys.

Those are merely MOO. Without knowing their actual reasons, it’s impossible to say exactly why they reacted so violently.

You hit the nail on the head! You mentioned everyone in the family being ENMESHED and acting as a unit with each other and I think that is exactly what type of family the Wagners are. An ENMESHED family.

My 2 cents---and the definition speaks for itself.

Enmeshment

 

[rsd1200]

I hope I’m doing this quote thing correctly. I’m a long time lurker, and just recently started posting.

Where I grew up is in the deep coal fields of WV. Families that participate in “hillbilly justice” are taught that their whole lives. It’s a very poor area since the coal mines shut down. People take pride in their families, and often stick together during hard times and perceived wrongs. I myself feel that way about my family, but we’d not be likely to go the HBJ route. Regardless, I’d NEVER kill an entire family.

I think the custody is a big part of it. However, it’s not all. I have no idea if it will ever come to light, but there’s other reasons adding fuel to the fire. I think jealousy played a part. I think possibly money played a part. For instance, if there was an unpaid debt to the Ws from the Rs. I imagine there’s more to it, but those are the things I think about. They took any perceived wrong to any member of the family as a slight on their entire family. That’s how they stuck together. You do NOT go against the family in HBJ. That’s why I don’t think any of the Ws will roll over on each other. I’ve seen HBJ a lot in my life, even to an extent of murder. But, never on this scale. I’m still shocked at what the Ws did. I think their pride was a huge factor.

I’d feel differently in an area that wasn’t country and on hard times. This area (I don’t live all that far from Pike Co) will never truly change. We “hillbillies” have spent our lives being made fun of and treated like we don’t matter. That’s a big reason the family is important. It’s an Appalachian or cultural thing, I think. That’s how I feel. Please understand that this is all JMO and observations.

Glad you decided to post, StarEyes! I agree with about everything in your post. I'm from the region too, only more-so along the foothills. I do think that custody possibly got bigger as time went on, and maybe the new boyfriend started looking to be more long term, and that annoyed them, or possibly concerned them.

I see both families being as you describe above. The Rs fought with each other, but fought for each other, too, their motto is Rhoden Strong, and the Rs all lived within an easy walk of one another, with the exception of KR. So, we had two families who were extremely tight-knit with one another, would have each other's back, and would, Go to the mat for one another, so to speak. There is something more there. I agree that it could be their pride, but what injured their pride to that degree? I think they wanted something silenced. Something that they felt could hurt them or, with the pride part, embarrass them.

HBJ, yes, very real. Happened in my friend's family a while back. Her kin ended up pleading out instead of the jury trial b/c evidence was pretty clear from what I understood. The Judge sentenced the individual to 25 years, and their spouse, I don't recall. It was sib against sib, with each of their spouses too. It's been very sad for both sides of that family. Nothing can ever be the same for them.

 

[rsd1200]

Thankx. What we were wondering about is communication with minors. A poster awhile back said that the children of JW and GW4 would get to communicate with them on a limited regular basis through a video chat, as opposed to actually visiting them in person. (But not confirmed, no link.)

JW and GW4 have not been convicted and thus have some right to communicate with their children, but it's not my business and not my place and would be very inappropriate of me to try to find out about JW and GW4's ongoing relationship with their kids.

So for that reason I'm out.....(of this discussion topic.)

If someone brings them to the jail, unless custody has been revoked and an order written that forbids them to see their children, then the children can visit with them, however the jail's guidelines allow. Some county jails are set up so that you can visit online, kind of like a video chat (Skype). That may be where the Skyping came from, and some county jails only give inmates two free visits per week. So I could see where that might get confused into two visits. It's not cheap to pay for visits and phone calls.

 

[Trudie]

I disagree. If the evidence is so compelling that a conviction is a definite, the W's lawyers will request a plea deal for LWOP.
I think it will be accepted due to trial costs and expedience. The W's lawyers will have had a "win" due to getting the DP off the table, it won't be considered a loss for them. It would not surprise me if the W's lawyers would request evidence be sealed with the plea agreement. That way the public will never know just how terrible the crimes were and the Ws somewhat "save face".

I think trials tend to revictimize the victim, in this case the co-victims, the family of the murdered.
The DA will advise family that a trial might not be “nice”, IMO.
Will the R’s want to go thru trials? Or, would they prefer cell doors slammed ASAP, rather than have dirty laundry aired, IF there is dirty laundry? I’m not implying there is.
IMO, the DA is to close cases, ASAP.
As the discovery process moves along, each defense team will have a come to Jesus meeting with their client, imo.
Should one or 4 go to trial & receive DP, it’s appeal after appeal after appeal. Money to the wind.
A plea agreement would stipulate no appeals, no early release & any other stipulations agreed upon by the DA/defendant.


MOO

 

[Betty P]

I have as much respect for hillbillies as I do for my neighbors.

And I don’t think this can be viewed as simple hillbilly justice. Hbj May be stealing tires or small crimes. Stuffing potatoes into a gas tank. Small annoying stuff.

Murdering 8 people is at the top of gang type crime. And maybe the Waggies took on a gang mentality.

I don’t think hbj could ever defend the thinking that people would accept the murders and life would just go on. Most people I have met and known from that area and life are good God fearing people who I’ve shared meals with after just meeting them. The Waggies evil entitlement goes far deeper than any hillbilly justice I have known.

BBM

Agree. At some point this went beyond family pride and feelings of injustice to a whole different level. Gang mentality seems to be a good word for it. Assume this is where the business relationship between the W's and R's came into play. Though I've had doubts in the past, I agree now there was some motive or assumption related to financial gain for the W's.

Whether just a short term gain from possibly robbing CR1 and KR of any cash stash they had or some "plan" they had for long term profits, the W's were delusional enough to think they could get away with the murders and somehow use the absence of the Rhodens to their benefit. Eliminating business competition? Acquiring real estate or other assets? Who knows, but we'll hopefully find out in the trials. The whole plan, though, sounds like some kind of gang or organized crime warfare.