OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

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  • #1,041
Thankx. What we were wondering about is communication with minors. A poster awhile back said that the children of JW and GW4 would get to communicate with them on a limited regular basis through a video chat, as opposed to actually visiting them in person. (But not confirmed, no link.)

JW and GW4 have not been convicted and thus have some right to communicate with their children, but it's not my business and not my place and would be very inappropriate of me to try to find out about JW and GW4's ongoing relationship with their kids.

So for that reason I'm out.....(of this discussion topic.)

SW is under states custody so Jake no longer has any rights where she is concerned. She is a ward of the state if I understand what MSM is saying. When she was placed as a ward of the state his parental rights should have and probably were suspended. So therefore I highly doubt any social worker or foster parents is going to allow SW to see or communicate with Jake. If she is with the RGM families you can be absolutely sure they are not going to allow her to see or communicate with him.

I don't know about BW. He has a mother who likely has him now. George filing to make her take a mental eval probably did not endear him to her so I am going to say she is not going to allow BW to see or communicate with George.

I thought I read somewhere that children under the age of 12 are not allowed as visitors in a jail. I could be wrong but I don't think either child would be allowed to visit with a prisoner in county lockup. They might be able to visit them in prison once they are sentenced though.

JMo
 
  • #1,042
BBM

Agree. At some point this went beyond family pride and feelings of injustice to a whole different level. Gang mentality seems to be a good word for it. Assume this is where the business relationship between the W's and R's came into play. Though I've had doubts in the past, I agree now there was some motive or assumption related to financial gain for the W's.

Whether just a short term gain from possibly robbing CR1 and KR of any cash stash they had or some "plan" they had for long term profits, the W's were delusional enough to think they could get away with the murders and somehow use the absence of the Rhodens to their benefit. Eliminating business competition? Acquiring real estate or other assets? Who knows, but we'll hopefully find out in the trials. The whole plan, though, sounds like some kind of gang or organized crime warfare.


So many posters have indicated the HOPE TO FIND OUT AT TRIAL. For those people from the area, I hope the process brings some peace. I hope it answers how and why this happened. Mostly I hope that the trials can teach us what the signs were and each incident that brought it on can teach us to avoid it happening ever again.

The community needs to heal from fear, from disbelief and all the emotions of losing people they knew. As heinous as the crime appears to be, there are lessons to be learned from it.
Perhaps as simple as anything like this escalatingvto the point of mass murder. To wake up on April 22,2016 and hear an entire family had been annilated can be devastating. After the trials and the guilty safely away, perhaps people can examine the things that upset them most. And maybe can find alternatives to violence. There are smarter ways to handle conflict.
 
  • #1,043
Dudley,

In each State Constitution there is a provision for distinct and separate powers. Among those powers the Legislative branch writes the law AND by virtue of the state coffers allocates funding from statewide resources to fund the enforcement of such law.

(And I’m going to add this is VERY simplified)

By virtue of the process, the entire State of Ohio may be compelled to fund every penny expended in these trials. Just as they may have in the past.

If I remember right Franklin County Ohio is feeling the same pressure to a lesser degree. But just for the simple reason of the cost of 4 trials, it is bad public policy to accept a plea. It negates the detergent to the next 4, or 5,10 or a gang in any Ohio community, big or small, to truly consider the death penalty before slaughtering 8,20 or a hundred people.

I don’t believe the AG or any prosecutor made the decision lightly to charge death penalty specs, but the circumstances were there and this idea of hillbilly justice must stop.

I don’t pretend to understand the mindset of the Waggies, not one of them. None of us knows at this point just how violent and evil the plan actually was. There are however a couple of things that can occur. One being that a single Juror may not be able to vote for the death penalty. Even though each must swear they can do just that when chosen to serve.

It is part of the process and the Waggies have been provided DP publicly paid attorneys to do the best job possible to find them innocent, not guilty or an acquittal. Most importantly these certified defenders will do everything possible to protect the Waggies rights.


I just read that Pike County has to date expended between $500,000.00 to $600,000.00 on the Investigation. That figure does not include BCI, other counties, the Office of the Attorney General, or the Feds. AG, now Governor DEWine said tens of thousands of man hours have been expended in this investigation. It’s untrackable he said.

IMO using Pike as the only comparison the State has already spent millions of dollars for staff, testing, per firm and other expenses I can only speculate. Travel to 10 States especially Alaska where hotels in Kenai at government rates are $89.00 to $258.00 per night depending on season. Plane tickets from Chicago to ANC can range from $600 TO $1,500 also depending on airline and time of year. Rental cars. $60 to $150.00 per day depending on summer or winter. Meals average $10 for breakfast to almost $16 for lunch and dinner $22 up. This has NOT been a cheap crime to investigate.

Let the process run it’s course just as it has for the other men and women on death row in Ohio. To do otherwise would be to show favoritism based on an economic basis alone.

The Waggies could have stopped all of this at any point up until the first punch thrown at CRSR, or the second prior to the first trigger pulled. They alone as a group, if found guilty, are responsible.

They own, if found guilty, sole responsibility for every charge and every dollar expended to investigate the crime, prosecute it and to defend it. Sadly killing 8 people for any reason violates the law, basic humanity and so many morals and ethical considerations I don’t want to go down that road.


By murdering 16 year old Christopher Rhoden Jr., they denied that young man of a projected 60 years of life. As a democracy we need to think about that. 60 years, he will never be married, never walk for high school graduation, never have a child, never own a home or anything any of us take very much for granted.

None of the Rhodens deserved to die. And dead they cannot seek justice, the living must do it for them.

In my opinion

You sure wrote a lot but what did it have to do with the state taking a plea deal to keep from going bankrupt trying to put these four on trail for the death penalty? There is nothing more expensive than a DP case and there are FOUR in this case. There is an automatic appeal in any death penalty sentence. There is nothing more expensive than keeping someone on death row because of the constant appeals. Why would the state and county prefer to spend millions just to attempt to get a death penalty when it would be much, much, cheaper to let them appeal to LOP and save millions. A jury, as you said, needs one person to stop it. Why take that chance when LOP gets the same effect?
 
  • #1,044
If someone brings them to the jail, unless custody has been revoked and an order written that forbids them to see their children, then the children can visit with them, however the jail's guidelines allow. Some county jails are set up so that you can visit online, kind of like a video chat (Skype). That may be where the Skyping came from, and some county jails only give inmates two free visits per week. So I could see where that might get confused into two visits. It's not cheap to pay for visits and phone calls.
Thankx rsd1200
 
  • #1,045
SW is under states custody so Jake no longer has any rights where she is concerned. She is a ward of the state if I understand what MSM is saying. When she was placed as a ward of the state his parental rights should have and probably were suspended. So therefore I highly doubt any social worker or foster parents is going to allow SW to see or communicate with Jake. If she is with the RGM families you can be absolutely sure they are not going to allow her to see or communicate with him.

I don't know about BW. He has a mother who likely has him now. George filing to make her take a mental eval probably did not endear him to her so I am going to say she is not going to allow BW to see or communicate with George.

I thought I read somewhere that children under the age of 12 are not allowed as visitors in a jail. I could be wrong but I don't think either child would be allowed to visit with a prisoner in county lockup. They might be able to visit them in prison once they are sentenced though.

JMo
Thankx raisinisback
 
  • #1,046
It’s different for every family. I wonder if HMR living with the Ws, then leaving their home, was a perceived wrong. All in itself. The family grew close to her, taking her in as family. She left and “abandoned” them. That could play a factor. It would perhaps be seen as someone turning their back on their family. The living situation made them closer to her than if she had never lived there.

HBJ can be all because of 1 person in the family. It’s seen as you slap one person, you’ve slapped their whole family. They act as a unit. Everyone is enmeshed and it’s not a bond that breaks easily. I don’t see much HBJ now. I’m in an area where it’s not as common. I would go to the mat for my family, but they’d never expect me to. In a family with HBJ, it’s EXPECTED of you. Growing up, you just knew which families acted that way and you tried to steer clear and keep on their good side. They protect the family name. I think that pride really played a big part in the Ws decision. I also think they saw HMR as betraying them. When her own family took her in and supported her decisions, the Ws saw it as the Rs betraying them. The whole family. It’s very Hatfield & McCoys.

Those are merely MOO. Without knowing their actual reasons, it’s impossible to say exactly why they reacted so violently.

I picture it as a cocoon or a web, everyone kept wound closer and closer together. I doubt any of the Wagners made move without them all being involved. As I posted earlier, their attitudes on their horse, dog and pig breeding operations seem have migrated to the human females within the family circle, with the Wagners having all rights.
 
  • #1,047
I went to look for it yesterday and I can't find it now. We referenced it in the former thread, I think. She filed for amended visitation, I believe, back in Sept. 2018, and the last court date was after the arrests. I can still see their marriage and divorce there though. Maybe I have my links mixed up.
Can't find a link, but from memory, I recall his lawyer filed the request on 11/2/2018.
 
  • #1,048
SW is under states custody so Jake no longer has any rights where she is concerned. She is a ward of the state if I understand what MSM is saying. When she was placed as a ward of the state his parental rights should have and probably were suspended. So therefore I highly doubt any social worker or foster parents is going to allow SW to see or communicate with Jake. If she is with the RGM families you can be absolutely sure they are not going to allow her to see or communicate with him.

I don't know about BW. He has a mother who likely has him now. George filing to make her take a mental eval probably did not endear him to her so I am going to say she is not going to allow BW to see or communicate with George.

I thought I read somewhere that children under the age of 12 are not allowed as visitors in a jail. I could be wrong but I don't think either child would be allowed to visit with a prisoner in county lockup. They might be able to visit them in prison once they are sentenced though.

JMo

BBM
That may not be true. Just because a child has been taken by the state does not mean a parent's rights are immediately terminated. He has not been found guilty of anything yet. Children services would have to step in because she and B have to have a home placement. She and B may be fostered by a foster parent or an approved family member(s). It may be difficult to take the children to onsite visits, due to the nature of this case, but it's likely that they would be able to accept calls from their parents, or video visits. They'd probably not be permitted to speak about the case or other family members.

Officials would only say children’s services was involved in the case and declined to say if Sophia was with family or in protective care.

Rhoden family massacre: Arrests throw child custody issue back to Ohio courts
 
  • #1,049
I really want to thank those local to the area for offering their input and observations. It really does help frame things for those of us that don't live in the area.
Now completely O/T - are any of you close to Stuarts Draft VA? I've been there many times, just curious, nothing related to this case!
 
  • #1,050
You sure wrote a lot but what did it have to do with the state taking a plea deal to keep from going bankrupt trying to put these four on trail for the death penalty? There is nothing more expensive than a DP case and there are FOUR in this case. There is an automatic appeal in any death penalty sentence. There is nothing more expensive than keeping someone on death row because of the constant appeals. Why would the state and county prefer to spend millions just to attempt to get a death penalty when it would be much, much, cheaper to let them appeal to LOP and save millions. A jury, as you said, needs one person to stop it. Why take that chance when LOP gets the same effect?

I'm anti-death penalty, but at the end of the day it's the easy way out for them, and it drags out forever, also, there's a percentage of folks who are actually innocent, and on death row (sucks to be them). When ya get down to brass tacks, the DP doesn't stop anything anyway. Did it stop anything in this case? If these four are convicted, they had to know that they'd be facing the DP if caught. No one ever thinks they'll get caught. They're too smart.
 
  • #1,051
Did not see this one here, unless I am blind, but this is crazy

"In addition to this investigation, Pike County Sheriff Charlie Reader is also being investigated by the state auditor's office. He is accused of stealing cash seized from drug cases to fuel a gambling problem, according to a complaint filed with the auditor’s office on Nov. 9"

Another Pike County office under investigation for questionable spending, auditor says

Could this affect the case at all? Just wondering. Love the site and been lurking for a bit, but finally decided to sign up

Eric
 
  • #1,052
Can't find a link, but from memory, I recall his lawyer filed the request on 11/2/2018.
TW withdrew her motion for change in visitation rights 12/27...this was a moot point after GW was arrested on 11/13. The State assumed custody at that point. JMO
 
  • #1,053
SW is under states custody so Jake no longer has any rights where she is concerned. She is a ward of the state if I understand what MSM is saying. When she was placed as a ward of the state his parental rights should have and probably were suspended. So therefore I highly doubt any social worker or foster parents is going to allow SW to see or communicate with Jake. If she is with the RGM families you can be absolutely sure they are not going to allow her to see or communicate with him.

I don't know about BW. He has a mother who likely has him now. George filing to make her take a mental eval probably did not endear him to her so I am going to say she is not going to allow BW to see or communicate with George.

I thought I read somewhere that children under the age of 12 are not allowed as visitors in a jail. I could be wrong but I don't think either child would be allowed to visit with a prisoner in county lockup. They might be able to visit them in prison once they are sentenced though.

JMo
 
  • #1,054
Thank you, RB. Agree.
 
  • #1,055
Can't find a link, but from memory, I recall his lawyer filed the request on 11/2/2018.
It's all still there. However, after GW was arrested and in arcerated, it was a moot point for TW to continue the motion to amend visitation rights. Therefore, she withdrew the motion, once on 12/27 under her Wagner name, and again 12/28 as T. (current last name). JMO
 
  • #1,056
You sure wrote a lot but what did it have to do with the state taking a plea deal to keep from going bankrupt trying to put these four on trail for the death penalty? There is nothing more expensive than a DP case and there are FOUR in this case. There is an automatic appeal in any death penalty sentence. There is nothing more expensive than keeping someone on death row because of the constant appeals. Why would the state and county prefer to spend millions just to attempt to get a death penalty when it would be much, much, cheaper to let them appeal to LOP and save millions. A jury, as you said, needs one person to stop it. Why take that chance when LOP gets the same effect?
 
  • #1,057
Dudley,
You wrote,
1. "There is nothing more expensive than a DP case and there are FOUR in this case.
Justice says, "There is nothing worth one human life, let alone EIGHT human lives in this case."
2. You wrote, "There is nothing more expensive than keeping someone on death row because of constant appeals." Justice says, "Because the EIGHT victims' families deserve to Observe justice being meted out to the killers of their loved ones. And...who can put a price on a human life?
3. Why would the state and county prefer to spend millions just to attempt to get a death penalty when it would be much cheaper to let them appeal to LWP and save millions?"
Justice says, "I come in all shapes and forms. Do not be deceived." Consider the perps getting to have visitors. Justice? IMO, no. "The victims didn't even get a fair trial for alleged, rumoredwrongs.

You said, "Why take that chance when LOP gets the same effect?" Huh? For real?

All my comments are my humble opinion
 
  • #1,058
BBM
That may not be true. Just because a child has been taken by the state does not mean a parent's rights are immediately terminated. He has not been found guilty of anything yet. Children services would have to step in because she and B have to have a home placement. She and B may be fostered by a foster parent or an approved family member(s). It may be difficult to take the children to onsite visits, due to the nature of this case, but it's likely that they would be able to accept calls from their parents, or video visits. They'd probably not be permitted to speak about the case or other family members.



Rhoden family massacre: Arrests throw child custody issue back to Ohio courts

Can you honestly see a social worker or foster parent taking SW to see Jake in jail? Can you honestly see either of those making or accepting a phone call to or from Jake so she could talk to him? Even less so any of the R, M or G families.

Given the secrecy by Reader surrounding K and R and where they were placed after the murders, I don't think that Jake or any of the W's has been told where SW even is.

There are no real close family members to take her. Both parents, uncles, both sets of grandparents are all either dead or in jail.

They would have to go to great grandparents. Fred and Rita are out, they have been charged with crimes in connection to the murders. That leaves Geneva and Lenny. Geneva looks like she cannot even take care of herself let alone an active child. That leaves Lenny and Judy. And I am fairly certain Lenny is never going to make or accept a phone call from Jake.

JMO
 
  • #1,059
Can you honestly see a social worker or foster parent taking SW to see Jake in jail? Can you honestly see either of those making or accepting a phone call to or from Jake so she could talk to him? Even less so any of the R, M or G families.

Given the secrecy by Reader surrounding K and R and where they were placed after the murders, I don't think that Jake or any of the W's has been told where SW even is.

There are no real close family members to take her. Both parents, uncles, both sets of grandparents are all either dead or in jail.

They would have to go to great grandparents. Fred and Rita are out, they have been charged with crimes in connection to the murders. That leaves Geneva and Lenny. Geneva looks like she cannot even take care of herself let alone an active child. That leaves Lenny and Judy. And I am fairly certain Lenny is never going to make or accept a phone call from Jake.

JMO

They have an uncle W who does not live on FW's property, nor in Pike County, and from what I understand, has no criminal record, and is a successful businessman. They try to place children with family whenever possible. I said, "It may be difficult to take the children to onsite visits, due to the nature of this case" but based on MSM it does not confirm nor deny where the children are located, nor whether no contact has been ordered.
 
  • #1,060
Can you honestly see a social worker or foster parent taking SW to see Jake in jail? Can you honestly see either of those making or accepting a phone call to or from Jake so she could talk to him? Even less so any of the R, M or G families.

Given the secrecy by Reader surrounding K and R and where they were placed after the murders, I don't think that Jake or any of the W's has been told where SW even is.

There are no real close family members to take her. Both parents, uncles, both sets of grandparents are all either dead or in jail.

They would have to go to great grandparents. Fred and Rita are out, they have been charged with crimes in connection to the murders. That leaves Geneva and Lenny. Geneva looks like she cannot even take care of herself let alone an active child. That leaves Lenny and Judy. And I am fairly certain Lenny is never going to make or accept a phone call from Jake.

JMO
Can you honestly see a social worker or foster parent taking SW to see Jake in jail? Can you honestly see either of those making or accepting a phone call to or from Jake so she could talk to him? Even less so any of the R, M or G families.

Given the secrecy by Reader surrounding K and R and where they were placed after the murders, I don't think that Jake or any of the W's has been told where SW even is.

There are no real close family members to take her. Both parents, uncles, both sets of grandparents are all either dead or in jail.

They would have to go to great grandparents. Fred and Rita are out, they have been charged with crimes in connection to the murders. That leaves Geneva and Lenny. Geneva looks like she cannot even take care of herself let alone an active child. That leaves Lenny and Judy. And I am fairly certain Lenny is never going to make or accept a phone call from Jake.

JMO
Poor little Hannah and rest of her family would love to had a chance at Life, so if the Wagners are proved guilty than I say yes to The death penalty.
 
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